Raping babies is an evil thing. Reporting me? I am not the ones with views that harm innocent children and good people. I am the one that defends these people because I respect my fellow human beings. I don't want to debate anymore with a wicked and twisted being such as yourself. Goodbye.
You are not proving that God is dead, merely stating that God has been inactive for a bit. That in no way proves that He is dead, even if it's been for thousands of years in your opinion, it still does not prove He is dead. Gimme proof jackass ;)
Too right you're not "stooping my level"; no way would I step down for a coward such as yourself.
I am like Hellno? How would you even know that, none of us have even met each other (except from internet romantics and I can imagine Hellno is not one of those - his name says it all).
If Jesus Christ is on the hated side of the fence then hop over there but I'm already there so you'd better keep your distance as my foot will be itching to boot you into next year.
you will not outcast me
{No comment needed}
You won't get to know me, let alone quickly, so we can leave that out the picture for starters.
You say that He created us then "did nothing more". That is false, He did a lot more. Since you are using the bible, I will also: He sent His Son. He has done a great number of things since the worlds creation. It is just as easy for me to say this as it is for you to say He hasn't which leads me to believe this debate will be dull and destinationless. If it is to continue (the debate) what will be the main focus?
You are the opposite of truth. In fact, you're so far from the truth that you are even behind false! I have better things to do, don't be expecting me to argue for you next time you get banned or to offer advice when you wonder if raping a baby is a cool and healthy thing to do. May God help your sick and twisted mind, peace.
Actually it was the case. Why deny this when they are on your debates (if they (your debates) haven't already been deleted due to inappropriate content). It is truly pathetic that you continue to act the victim... does anyone fall for it? Nah: dude, you're like the most hated member on here.
Just ignore him - he doesn't want help, he just pretends to then ignores the real people that want to help and focuses on the ones he manages to offends and proceeds to deliberately offend them further. It really is pathetic but its all down to attention. Sick huh?
No offense, man, but it's your own fault. You put controversial (sick and retarded) issues right out there under our nostrils and act the victim when they come after you kicking you into next week. How can you blame them when you do such a stupid thing so many times and even laugh at them when they have every reason to be offended? I offered you support (sent you posts on your debates) to get you out of the mess (sick-ass mess) you are in and even provided a private debate which you promptly ignored (more than once I offered) and kept on acting like no one has offered help. I stuck up for you in the debate that decided whether or not to un-ban you and provided a decent argument for you. You were brought back (thanks to me and all the others who argued for you) and here you are still ignoring me yet continuing to act like a poor little bullied boy? You know what? Fuck you. I'm glad you get discriminated - cowards are all the same and they deserve every fist of shit coming to them. You clearly didn't want help like you spoke about and you clearly didn't want to see why which was what you were ALWAYS asking so just piss off because quite frankly I'm sick to bloody death of seeing your weak-ass posts everywhere.
Oh Bohemian, don't let something like this come between us; what we have is so big, we must not let negativity penetrate our connection... ;)
you'd be all over me
In your dreams ;p
Go ahead, make an anti-Christian comment, people on here (and everywhere) make them all the time so it wouldn't surprise me. The world is full of atheists so I have been called a lot of things for what I believe in.
constantly making negative remarks against atheists themselves, is the problem.
Actually, I mostly just direct the "negative remarks" at the ones on here that irritate me (some have gone, thankfully) but unfortunatelly a few remain and tend to irritate me slightly with their ignorant attitudes (see: iamdavidh, Libertarian etc) and it is that kind that I direct my 'talk' at, pay no attention ;D)
Well I will let you think that if it makes you feel better... we can have a debate elsewhere or perhaps even here if you like but we will just have to make it shorter and focus on one or two points only so that each post does not take so long to put together.
I would like a way to know who is online with you in one place instead of going to profiles.
Yeessss, I totally agree. I think that would be really cool if there was a little box somewhere at the corner of the page or something, or on CD homepage that tells you who is online - such a cool (and extremely useful) idea!
Bohemian, regrettably, I just don't have time for our debate at the moment. I have a job and family to be getting on with and my social life is hectic right now. I have enjoyed parts of our discussion but I think it is safe to say it was never really going anywhere as we are both firmly sticking to our guns and will not be moved. I predict you will say something along the lines of "I win" or "by definition of your post, I win" and feel free to do so but I just don't have the time to continue here - and lets face it, it was kind of dull!
God bless you.
The St. in front of his name removes his credability.
You're pathetic. Through and through.
talking down is the athiest's job
LOL, what absolute horseshit.
Resorting to merely talking down at me
I was being honest, if you can't tell the difference then that's not my problem.
Not only did you not specify in the original post who the quote is from
So it's dumb because I didn't specify the author? You said the quote was dumb, "the dumbest on the face of the planet" and couldn't even explain why. I wonder who is the dumb one now.
you also seem to think someone who insists that faith is more important then explanation has any credability
That doesn't even make sense. Learn how to create a sentence in English then get back to me.
I was referring to your flying hippy named jesus
He flies? State how you know this and where you get the idea of Him being a hippy from.
And nice to add LOL right after a fuck insult to make yourself look like a little kid getting off on argueing with adults.
You should take a good look at your argument and spelling before calling yourself that.
And that you're a retard for quoting and agreeing with him.
I'm the retard? This really is amusing, you can't even construct a sentence, you fail to produce arguments so leave behind little pathetic sentences in your slimy trail then toss out insults at those who find you to be the coward that you are - yet you call me the retard? Go back to nursery you nitwit.
. HILARIOUS. http://www.youtube.com/
I guess a lot of things could be associated with gambling, it is deciding where to draw the line that becomes the cut off point so to speak. "Keep your lives free from the love of money" is what Paul tells us in Hebews and also in Timothy. Proverbs states "Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow" which could very much be related to gambling as could this verse in Ecclesiastes "Whoever loves money never has enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income. This too is meaningless." So I think it is safe to say that there are enough hints there in the bible that warn off gambling.
What is it with you and drink?! Lol, I have only been drunk on here once... that was a weird evening lol. I did think that was perhaps what you meant but I don't like to jump to conclusions because I can confuse situations in the most awful way lol.
You truly have no evidence to support that statement jackass.
Uh, yes I do, and so will you if you actually read about who he is... "jackass".
It would involve you crying over a lack of an afterlife.
Really? That is the best you can come up with? I pity losers like you.
Did you offer any reason that the quote was correct? Then why am i required to justify myself?
If you dispute something with a dumbass statement such as " Absolutely the dumbest quote on the face of the planet......................." then you should further go on to justify that and back it up so that you don't look such a fool.
You and your flying hippy can laugh it up all you want
I'm a hippy? What are you on, crack? Oh wait no, that would be me, right? Fucking loser, LOL.
it doesn't cahnge the fact the quote makes no logical sense
You haven't even managed to show that so all you are doing is proving that YOU make no logical sense and the quote does in fact make perfect sense.
mentally challenged beliefs well.
Your level of retardation is higher than I have ever seen in a person, congratulations.
Are you ever going to tell me? Why have such an out-there username and not even explain it when asked? You must have known that with the amount of Christians in the world there would be at least 1 on here who would wonder and act on that wondering?
Again, this is irrelevant. Unless you are insisting that by him rebelling he suddenly experienced amnesia. Everything Lucifer knew as an angel he would have also known as a fallen angel.
I wouldn’t put anything past that rotten bastard. However, he likes to think he knows best but I guess God proved him wrong, on countless other occasions too.
With foreknowledge of future events he would be in a particularly advantageous position to prevent all these things from happening, so either he doesn't know or he doesn't care or he isn't able.
Just because God knew what would happen does not mean that He would prevent it. His whole idea from the very beginning was for us to have free will, so to prevent all sin would to be preventing free will – a debate I have already had here with a member and they lost.
The simple solution would be to have never created Lucifer in the first place.
Well, that is certainly the solution that our limited minds would come to, yes. What you have to consider is that without evil in this world, there would be no ability to sin therefore there would not be the free will that God had intended.
Chance has nothing to do with it.
Actually, chance has everything to do with it. I can see how if chance was out of the picture it would benefit your argument greatly but sadly if you say something that doesn’t always make it true. But then again, there is a chance it sometimes does... but this time you were wrong ;)
People are not offended by insults on the basis of probability, they are insulted on the basis of the content of the insult, and on the type of person they are.
Well, God is three divine Persons so I think it is fair to say He is on a whole other level when it comes to Him being offended as opposed to ourselves, which effectively rules out your “booger-face” example.
Notice I said People. The personality traits which all contain some degree of imperfection, allow people to become offended. This would not apply to a perfect entity.
I don’t think it has anything to do with imperfection, at least not in the person who is offended. God made man in His image, therefore there will be similarities between Himself and His Creation therefore for us to be offended by those that hurt us should not be so different to God being offended also.
No, my 'plan' was to show that your argument is inherently contradictory, and thus irrational. You can't have it both ways.
I would really appreciate it if you stopped ordering me around, it is pissing on the enthusiasm and positive side to this debate and is quite frankly beginning to make this debate boring. You in no way proved my argument to be contradicting but only further made a fool of yourself by forcing a one word answer and pleading for me to not provide reason. Scared of something?
If you say that God's perception of time DIDN'T impair his sacrificing his son in the most beneficial way, and then in the same breathe say that he didn't sacrifice his son sooner because of his perception of time
This is not an impairment because it is just you who sees the time issue as negative, not me or the billions of other believers. One question, why does it bother you so much that He didn’t send Him sooner when you don’t even believe in Him? Seems rather odd to me.
Thus he would be aware of the power to see into the future, assuming he posses such power
Who is “he”? God? Satan? Job? Be more specific. Assuming you mean God (as He is the one we have been discussing to see the future) what does that have to do with Satan wanting and failing to destroy Job’s faith in God? God knew all that would happen; God knew everything that has happened from since time began up till this very second, what exactly is your point here?
So even though God knew that humans would act in such a way (within the limitations that God created humans with) that he would have to wipe out millions of people including babies, so that he could use this genocide as a way to scare humans into obedience? Which is some how preferable to creating humans with the propensity towards doing good?
I find it quite interesting that whilst so many atheists have said this very same thing and judged God for all that He has done for us, they still cannot find a logical explanation to explain another way that He could have wiped out all evil and still have given us free will other than “He is omnipotent; an omnipotent God could have thought up something”. Very interesting.
AND you believe he is a loving God?
Loving beyond comprehension :)
Then he isn't omnipotent.
That, my friend, is an illogical objection.
God can only do that which is consistent with His nature; He cannot stop being God or holy. Omnipotence does not mean that God can violate His own nature and become an ice cream (I’m holding one now hence the example). An ice cream is not by nature God therefore God could not be the ice cream. But that does not mean that He can’t do all things that He desires to do which is what the biblical definition of omnipotence means.
Why do you keep calling Him Yahweh? An atheist shouldn’t be concerned about His name so would probably use the shortest possible such as God.
It does the very opposite. I view life as a roundabout that just keeps going round and round and round, the day I die will be a dizzily magical day for me - regardless of physical pain. I love my life and my family and friends but sometimes... you just want the world to stop so you can get off, you know?
Lucifer was one of Yahweh's top angels
That is the key word there: was. Not at the time we are speaking about, at this time he does everything in his power to ruin this world so I think your statement there is totally irrelevant.
This is a double-point, because God must have known that Lucifer would rebel and lead humans astray (according to your mythology) when he created him.
You don't need to keep reassuring me that you don't believe in God, you are atheist and I get that 100%. Yes, God did know that Lucifer would rebel against Him and attempt to draw humans into dark places. What is your point here?
Based on?? A hunch? A gut reaction? Your feeling? Do not think your bald assertions hold weight here.
You are making a complete ass of yourself, here is why: you state that offense does not always follow from insults, which implies that it sometimes does (in my opinion, often does), which proves that there is a big chance that the 'insult' verse I included refers to offense. To dispute that will insult my intelligence and will also knock you flat on your asinine atheist ass.
Does God's perception of time impair his ability to 'save' mankind?
Nope.
if NO, then you cannot use it as a reason
So your plan here is to make me answer 'yes' or 'no' then force me to not supply reason so that you can then go on to diss my lack of reasoning and tell me I am making "bald assertions"? You have got absolutely no idea how to debate do you?
No. No, it's not.
Thats why I didn't say 'same thing', I said "same difference". You truly are a 90 year old without marbles who shits his pants and can't see without a magnifying glass which you evidently forgot to use which would make sense due to lack of marbles.
Based on?? A hunch? A gut reaction? Your feeling?
Common sense.
Authors you mean.
Why thank you for the correction in my error of grammar; if this is how we are playing then perhaps I should scroll through your previous posts and correct several of the errors you typed - oh and by the way it is 'irrelevant', not "irrelevent". Two can play that game, mister smart Alec.
It also doesn't follow that because he (Lucifer) is evil, that he is unaware of Yahweh's Power
That sentence doesn't make sense. Satan is aware of God's power, He was not out to destroy God (as he knew he would be a fool to even think it let alone try) but rather wanting to destroy Job's faith in God.
The other example, I've stated many times: the great Deluge.
So you are standing on a) a "wager" that Satan lost and b) the flood which God gave everyone a chance to escape but most did not believe him therefore got what they had coming to them which they had a chance to escape. These are really what you use for your back up plan? Surely there is something else you can use...?
If you could see the future and never made mistakes, you would never need to fix those mistakes. You wouldn't need an eraser, but that's precisely what the deluge (the flood) is.
God knew what would happen, He knew it all. An eraser scrubs out something you don't want. God scrubbed out what didn't want Him. The difference is that your theory is back to front. Perhaps in some ways the flood was an eraser, yes, but what was being scrubbed out had a chance and did not heed the warning. Not God's fault, not the floods fault - theirs.
If God knew he was going to have to wipe out humanity and restart with Noah and his wife, then not just start out with Noah and his wife in the first place?
We would never know the consequences of disobeying God if He did things like this and our fear for Him would be far smaller.
Yet we are told that he cannot sin, cannot deny himself, cannot lie, and cannot create a being greater than himself.
Obviously a benevolent being such as God could not do those things; He is omnipotent as Revelation tells us and we know that He can do anything (except lie, sin, deny himself, which is pretty obvious for a benevolent being).
I was actually wanting to hear what he said about it...
Maybe this isn't the debate for it, and if it pisses off the mod then he can ban me. I asked him in a previous debate and I never got a reply. Either way, I asked him a question and don't want others answering it for him.
No, not at all. Why would we be bummed out, by not being grouped with Nazis? If anything it shows that having a capital letter, means nothing. So why would you be happy or proud of a completely inconsequential and meaningless fact? I find this very interesting.
I was being sarcastic - not that you would have any idea what that is mind you. You were the one to bring up Nazism not getting a capital, I was merely making a joke out of it.
It doesn't bother me, that's the thing.
Then stop banging on about it like two fucking rabbits giggity giggitng!
amuses me that you are so proud of a capital letter
For the millionth time, I was stating a sudden observation that had rushed into my head at that moment. What are you, 90 with no marbles?
You are like the child who thinks she is better than the other child, because her lunch box is bigger.
And you are like the old man who forgets where his own bathroom is so shits in his pants instead. Seriously, why do you keep stating something when I have said so many times what I originally meant? It really is beyond me.
So if you want to parade this childish notion by starting another debate about it, go right a head.
I was simply trying to cheer you up; you were clearly offended that you don't get a capital and keep banging on about it telling me I'm superior when I clearly am not, so I thought that perhaps we could go to war about it and see each other's arguments. Obviously you'd rather sit there and cry like a baby whilst tossing insults in my direction - go right ahead, they bounce off me each time.
You are only making a mockery of yourself.
LOL, you've been making a mockery out of yourself this whole time with your petulance and blubbering, carry on though it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
The technique such as nerd flushing does exist, and nerd was the one example that came to mind.
Most children physically bully other children because they themselves have been mistreated at home by their parents or something silly
Again, that is false. The kind of kids in my school that bullied were the ones with a perfect life with perfect parents and perfect clothes. Those were the kind that bullied.
Damn right they should. They should be bullied until there is practically nothing left of them; they should feel pain mentally and physically so that they know exactly how it feels next time they flush a nerds head down the loo - if they ever have the nerve to do it again that is. I am completely in agreement with this and I believe it should be the victims of these cowards that get to do it.
After all this time you still believe I feel superior? I specifically answered your question on this saying that it would not be the word I would use. It sure is interesting that Nazi's get a capital when atheists don't huh, that must be a real bummer for you guys - thanks for pointing that out; I had not considered this until now. You really are making a major deal out of nothing. If it bothers you this much then just convert to Christianity?
Why would lucifer enter into a wager with Yahweh if he knew that Yahweh could see into the future?
Because Lucifer was an ignorant asshole, that’s why.
You cited a passage that states that sin 'insults' Yahweh. As I stated offense does not always follow from insult.
And I stated that whilst it does not always follow from insult, it does often, and that is one of those times.
Yo Comprendo pero su explicación es irrelevent.
Es pertinente, que acaba de negarse a aceptar la verdad.
I understand what you are trying to say, but unless his differed perception somehow inhibits or impairs his ability to 'save' mankind before 30 AD then your statement is entirely irrelevant.
You clearly didn’t comprende. Time is different to Him therefore when you act indignant that He did not come sooner, you are again talking in the language of time.
I did not say that they SAID this, what I said was that they BELIEVED this, which is implied by the context of some of the stories. My example was the wager between Lucifer and Yahweh.
Said/believed, same difference. Either way you implied something false. The example you give is not a very good one as the author of this book is aware of how evil Satan is and is not in agreement with him, so obviously does not believe what Satan does. Furthermore, you said "authors", this is plural yet you gave one example. You need more to make your statement true.
Literally none of these passages say that he can see into the future.
They say he can do anything. That is enough, surely. An omnipotent being can do anything; looking into the future would be included in that. If God could not look into the future then He would not be omnipotent would He? Its common sense really.
I don't hate you - it takes a lot for me to hate someone. Besides, we have some interesting discussions and we wouldn't have those if I hated you. No, I just think after all you've said blah blah (no hard feelings) that silaswash is definitely the most loved around here. You definitely are near the top though, I believe that, far more than me... obviously.
I was talking to him and making an observation and before he could even reply you butt in and involve yourself. Fair enough, but at least admit it, its not much to admit. So anyways, I was thinking, we could start a discussion about whether or not your faith that God does not exist gets a capital but I just don't think it qualifies for one (a capital) to be honest. It (the capital/non capital debate) would however make this discussion more interesting and give it some sort of meaning. What say you?
P.S. Yes, I know I'm a freak when it comes to parenthesis.
Dear diary, I woke up today and couldn't shut off my alarm clock so I threw it at the wall and I now require a new one. I go to work in a few hours and I can't wait as I get to test out the newest jet ski we got in - so excited that every time I think about it I hop from one foot to the next (unless I'm sitting, such as now).
Edit, additional information:
Dear diary, I also wanted to include something. Warning: don't read this if you are easily depressed. In my life, I have all these friends that are so awesome, cool, fun and just all round amazing. Yet I have never spoken to one of them about what happened to me. Why? I always wonder why. At the weekend, we were at Matt's house and I was upstairs with Keisha and Mae (my closest gf's) and I really wanted to tell them something that happened when I was little but I just couldn't. They were so busy with their hair and talking about my new shoes that I couldn't interrupt the girl talk with something as depressing as this. I have this awesome life that so many would die for and here I am feeling sorry for myself that I cannot get something irrelevant out. Silly me. Anyways, its in the past for a reason, right? Keep the eyes on the road or something nasty will happen. Or something like that.
Offense does not always follow from insult.
It often does though, and in this case, it often does too, like I just explained.
So different that he forgot to 'save' mankind until 30 AD?
I see you did not fully understand my statement. I will rephrase: Time is very different to God than it is to us. Our lives are ruled by time; bedtime, daytime, lunchtime, teatime, naptime, bathtime; we have to be in certain places at certain times, we have to be at work for a certain time and finished by a certain time, we have to wake up at a certain time and sleep at a certain time. With God, time is not the same at all. Therefore, whilst you are indignant that He took so long to send His Son, you are forgetting that the 'so long' phrase is very much related to time, something that you view very differently to Him. Comprende?
Where did they say that he could?
Don't answer my question with another question, you stated that the authors in the bible said that He could not see into the future; back this up or retract.
His understanding is infinite; Psalm 147:5, He can do all things, things that no man can do; Matthew 19:26, He is everywhere, He never leaves us; Matthew 28:20, He is omnipotent: "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth" Revelation 19:6. He can do all things, including seeing into the future.
I have in effect proved your statements wrong, all you have to do is retract the original: "the authors of the Bible did NOT believe that God Yahweh could see into the future", you even capitalized the 'not', seeming so sure of yourself.
I wasn't telling others, I was telling him. But I see you have taken it upon yourself to act in his defense, as atheists often do, and believe that I was speaking to others including yourself, which I was not. I really do believe this discussion is utterly pointless (although it is actually giving us points, I mean the other definition of pointless) and this really is not going to go anywhere. Are you finished accusing me yet? :)
This is the same thing you said before, only you added "hurls a line of insults at him", which doesn't fundamentally change the question at all.
Well, its not the same as I added to it.
Being OFFENDED is a uniquely human characteristic, that would not apply to a perfect and all-knowing God. I think it is much more likely that YOU were offended, than God. If 'said deity even exists.
There are many levels of offense. To sin against another is to sin against God because in doing this we are turning our backs on Him as we sin. Because of this, we are drawing the truthfulness of Him and the goodness of His character into question and this says to Him: "You're a liar". Therefore, sin in the words of Proverbs 17:5 insults God.
Then why send him to suffer?
So that we had a second chance and to show us how much He loves us.
Is there some rule that blood must be spilled for forgiveness, a rule that even God cannot break?
Are you implying that Jesus was not willing to bear the weight of our sins and unwilling to obey God?
Furthermore, if God knew of everything that would happen, why did he wait until 30 AD to sacrifice his son?
The concept of time is very different in the eyes of God so to speak as it is in our eyes.
it seems apparent to me that the authors of the Bible did NOT believe that God Yahweh could see into the future many of the stories in the bible would not make any sense if that were the case, particularly the great deluge and the events leading up to it.
Just call Him God, its far easier :) Where did the authors state that He could not see into the future?
