I believe you always should tell the truth even if it ends up having bad results, however I personally am okay with doing an evil if I believe it is for a greater good. Just like stealing is bad but if I had to do it to keep one of my younger siblings alive I would do it in a heartbeat. Which I guess makes me a hypocrite but I would do almost anything for people I care about
Wait that´s still a thing? How exactly does it work; your religion I mean. Is their a book with your belief (like a Bible, or a history of the gods)? Who is Hlïn? How did you join this belief system?
P.S.: please do not answer if you do not want to I am simply curious.
A Progressive is just a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas. Having liberal ideas just means to be open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values. I don´t see how this can be considered a mental illness anymore than conservatism which is someone who is holding political views that favor free enterprise, private ownership, and socially conservative ideas. Neither one is necessarily bad and both have done good things. Progressives in the past were people who fought for racial equality or the end of slavery. The early church itself was progressive, it implemented new ideas into the Roman empire. Some progressives do support things I am personally against like abortion or gay marriage but they have a right to their beliefs just like us. We need to be respectful to other people and not judge them by Christian standards because they are not Christians. Jesus came to help the downtrodden, the broken. He came to help the Romans and the Greeks who worshiped other gods. He did not seek to put them down or start a fight with them. Please can we not as Christians stay civil when talking to those who do not believe and show them the love and mercy of Jesus?
Well I always thought of it more like being that once you get to heaven you don´t lose your freewill so much as you just don´t make the bad choices, you know? like I could still choose to do something bad but I don´t want to because I made it to heaven and look it the creator of the universe!
And for those of you looking for love here is some advice for you from real experts... WHAT IS THE PROPER AGE TO GET MARRIED??
"Eighty-four! Because at that age, you don't have to work anymore, and you can spend all your time loving each other in your bedroom." (Judy, 8)
"Once I'm done with kindergarten, I'm going to find me a wife!" (Tom, 5)
WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE??
"On the first date, they just tell each other lies, and that usually gets them interested enough to go for a second date." (Mike, 10)
WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE??
"You should never kiss a girl unless you have enough bucks to buy her a big ring and her own VCR, 'cause she'll want to have videos of the wedding." (Jim, 10)
"Never kiss in front of other people. It's a big embarrassing thing if anybody sees you. But if nobody sees you, I might be willing to try it with a handsome boy, but just for a few hours." (Kally, 9)
THE GREAT DEBATE: IS IT BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR MARRIED??
"It's better for girls to be single but not for boys. Boys need somebody to clean up after them!" (Lynette, 9)
"It gives me a headache to think about that stuff. I'm just a kid. I don't need that kind of trouble." (Kenny, 7)
CONCERNING WHY LOVE HAPPENS BETWEEN TWO PARTICULAR PEOPLE
"No one is sure why it happens, but I heard it has something to do with how you smell. That's why perfume and deodorant are so popular." (Jan, 9)
"I think you're supposed to get shot with an arrow or something, but the rest of it isn't supposed to be so painful." (Harlen, 8)
ON WHAT FALLING IN LOVE IS LIKE
"Like an avalanche where you have to run for your life." (Roger, 9)
"If falling in love is anything like learning how to spell, I don't want to do it. It takes too long." (Leo, 7)
ON THE ROLE OF GOOD LOOKS IN LOVE
"If you want to be loved by somebody who isn't already in your family, it doesn't hurt to be beautiful." (Jeanne, 8)
"It isn't always just how you look. Look at me. I'm handsome like anything and I haven't got anybody to marry me yet." (Gary, 7)
"Beauty is skin deep. But how rich you are can last a long time." (Christine, 9)
CONCERNING WHY LOVERS OFTEN HOLD HANDS
"They want to make sure their rings don't fall off because they paid good money for them." (Dave, 8)
CONFIDENTIAL OPINIONS ABOUT LOVE
"I'm in favor of love as long as it doesn't happen when 'The Simpsons' is on television." (Anita, 6)
"Love will find you, even if you are trying to hide from it. I have been trying to hide from it since I was five, but the girls keep finding me." (Bobby, 8)
"I'm not rushing into being in love. I'm finding fourth grade hard enough." (Regina, 10)
THE PERSONAL QUALITIES NECESSARY TO BE A GOOD LOVER
"One of you should know how to write a check. Because, even if you have tons of love, there is still going to be a lot of bills." (Ava, 8)
SOME SUREFIRE WAYS TO MAKE A PERSON FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU
"Tell them that you own a whole bunch of candy stores." (Del, 6)
"Don't do things like have smelly, green sneakers. You might get attention, but attention ain't the same thing as love." (Alonzo, 9)
"One way is to take the girl out to eat. Make sure it's something she likes to eat. French fries usually works for me." (Bart, 9)
HOW CAN YOU TELL IF TWO ADULTS EATING DINNER AT A RESTAURANT ARE IN LOVE?
"Just see if the man picks up the check. That's how you can tell if he's in love." (John, 9)
"Lovers will just be staring at each other and their food will get cold. Other people care more about the food." (Brad, 8)
"It's love if they order one of those desserts that are on fire. They like to order those because it's just like how their hearts are...on fire." (Christine, 9)
WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE THINKING WHEN THEY SAY "I LOVE YOU"
"The person is thinking: Yeah, I really do love him. But I hope he showers at least once a day." (Michelle, 9)
HOW A PERSON LEARNS TO KISS
"You learn it right on the spot when the gooshy feelings get the best of you." (Doug, 7)
"It might help to watch soap operas all day." (Carin, 9)
WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?
"It's never okay to kiss a boy. They always slobber all over you...That's why I stopped doing it." (Jean, 10)
HOW TO MAKE LOVE ENDURE
"Spend most of your time loving instead of going to work." (Tom, 7)
"Don't forget your wife's name...That will mess up the love." (Roger, 8)
"Be a good kisser. It might make your wife forget that you never take out the trash." (Randy, 8)
Here is some more jokes, mostly about Christians cause I should be able to laugh at my own beliefs right? I mean this is funny...
How many Charismatics does it take to change a light bulb?
One to change the bulb and nine to pray against the spirit of darkness.
How many Calvinists does it take to change a light bulb?
None. God has predestined when the light will be on. Calvinists do not change light bulbs. They simply read the instructions and pray the light bulb will be one that has been chosen to be changed.
How many Baptists does it take to change a light bulb?
Change???
How many neo-orthodox does it take to change a bulb?
No one knows. They can't tell the difference between light and darkness.
How many TV evangelists does it take to change a light bulb?
One. But for the message of light to continue, send in your donation today.
How many independent fundamentalists does it take to change a light bulb?
Only one, because any more might result in too much cooperation.
How many liberals does it take to change a light bulb?
At least ten, as they need to hold a debate on whether or not the light bulb exists. Even if they can agree upon the existence of the light bulb, they still might not change it, to keep from alienating those who might use other forms of light.
How many Catholics does it take to change a light bulb?
None. They always use candles.
How many worship leaders who use guitars does it take to change a light bulb?
One. But soon all those around can warm up to its glowing.
How many members of an established Bible teaching church that is over 20 years old does it take to change a light bulb?
One to actually change the bulb, and nine to say how much they liked the old one.
How many United Methodists does it take to change a light bulb?
This statement was issued: "We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against the need for a light bulb. However, if in your own journey you have found that a light bulb works for you, that is fine. You are invited to write a poem or compose a modern dance about your personal relationship with your light bulb (or light source, or non-dark resource), and present it next month at our annual light bulb Sunday service, in which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent, fluorescent, three-way, long-life, and tinted-all of which are equally valid paths to luminescence."
How many Amish does it take to change a light bulb?
"What's a light bulb?"
How many youth pastors does it take to change a light bulb?
Youth pastors aren't around long enough for a light bulb to burn out.
How many Southern Baptists does it take to change a light bulb?
109. Seven on the Light Bulb Task Force Subcommittee, who report to the 12 on the Light Bulb Task Force, appointed by the 15 on the Trustee Board. Their recommendation is reviewed by the Finance Executive Committee of 5, who place it on the agenda of the 18 member Finance Committee. If they approve, they bring a motion to the 27 member Church Council, who appoint another 12 member review committee. If they recommend that the Church Council proceed, a resolution is brought to the Convention floor. They appoint another 8 member review committee. If their report to the next Convention supports the changing of a light bulb, and the Convention votes in favor, the responsibility to carry out the light bulb change is passed on to the Trustee Board, who in turn appoint a 7 member committee to find the best price in new light bulbs. Their recommendation of which hardware has the best buy must then be reviewed by the 23 member Ethics Committee to make certain that this hardware store has no connection to the Walt Disney Corporation. They report back to the Trustee Board who, then commissions the Trustee in charge of the Janitor to ask him to make the change. By then the janitor discovers that one more light bulb has burned out.
An atheist looks on the world as being without God (or a god, however you say it)
which does affect their thinking of the world and how it works, right? And your baggage is technically having to deal with that fact that there is no God which even if it feels like no burden at all it will affect you and your views.
You are correct about the scenarios you set up to accept one would be to accept another, what i was trying to say is that these people should have governance over themselves not other people, in the case of the child since they are a minor I would say the country may have a right to intervene, and in the case of the stoning that is murder of someone else and would be the same as forcing your religion upon someone.
As for your last comment, I would say I would be skeptical definitely but I would try and discover the truth, and if there is no way to prove or disprove them then I will probably believe this guy would be a little off their rocker but not do anything because I can not prove it.
Mental disorder (or Illness): A wide range of conditions that affect mood, thinking, and behavior. Is there really any belief now that can not be classified as a mental disorder? I mean looking at the world as an atheist affects your thinking just as much as being a Christian or Muslim might. In my country at least (America) doing something such as forcing treatment on someone whose religious beliefs go against it is a violation of our declaration of independence. And even if some people do believe that they are complete and utter morons they still have the right to exist in their stupidity, even if their “healing power” is not real they deserve the freedom to throw their lot in with the Deity they believe in. I mean personally I would probably accept treatment if my doctor recommended it but if he tried to force it upon me things might get a little crazy. I mean are they going to stab me with an anesthesia shot and then operate if I refuse an operation which in itself is a technical risk of my life? No, thanks. So no I do not think it should be classified as a mental illness anymore than atheism or people who believe Michael Jackson was better than Johnny Cash (even despite the fact that the second is obviously wrong :).
I however also intend to live forever — so far, so good.
It is so cold outside I saw a politician with his hands in his own pockets.
or
I can’t believe I forgot to go to the gym today. That’s 7 years in a row now.
or maybe
Even people who are good for nothing have the capacity to bring a smile to your face, for instance when you push them down the stairs.
and one more
A priests asks the convicted murderer at the electric chair, "Do you have any last requests?”
"Yes," replies the murderer. "Can you please hold my hand?"
Last one
I saw two kids fighting in the elementary school playground. Being the only teenager around, I had to step in. They didn’t stand a chance.
Thank you, we could probably go on with this forever as we both seem firm in our beliefs, I was not very upset, but I guess I was a little annoyed because it felt somewhat like a stereotype, and one I would not fit into. Thank you for your honest opinions I enjoyed this debate. Maybe we should do it in a less touchy subject some other time huh? I would enjoy learning more about fine art because I have never had much experience with it.
Thanks for the compliment; kind of you to say so.
I appreciate the challenge, you have a lot of well thought out points (side note: what was your masters degree in? After high school I hope to major in Physics/Astrophysics at MSU)
You are right slavery is extremely immoral and it is rampant throughout the old and new testaments. But is the bible not a history of a time period in which these things were a part of society? Yes it was extremely wrong but the only place you find any laws whatsoever restricting the abuse of slaves during this time is in the bible.
Also true is your point that they were slaves, and we should not skirt around that fact at all even though some may try to make it seem not as bad as it is.
In response to the passage you found in leviticus I would like to use the words of Paul: 5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. And also Exodus 21:16 – “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” These are the family morals of the bible, the laws are put in place not as a standard but to restrict those who do evil and are treating slaves horribly. I think I already put forth a response to the passage you used from Luke and as to Ephesians 6:5 and 1Timothy 6 1-2, why should a slave not be respectful, is this not among the teachings of Jesus to love one another no matter who they are no matter how they have wronged us?
As to Job I give you Job chapter 1 6-12: ¨6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.¨ God allowed Job to be tested because he knew his commitment and his love for God and the devil needed to be defeated in this test.
As to So god destroyed his creations which again would include thousands of pregnant women who were carrying 'evil ' children ?I assume you are referring to the story of Noah to which I give Genesis 6:4-5 ¨4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. 5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.¨ You could say that at this point in time it was too late, God saw where man was headed and how the demons had persay ¨infected¨ them.
God creates an imperfect mankind because it pleased him, I mean think about it, make something that is perfect that will automatically choose you or make something imperfect that might love you? Which is a more perfect kind of love? Which is more rewarding? I just don't see the evil or the maliciousness you are describing.
As to your last point there is no way to back your first idea and I would appreciate it if you don´t assume to know about my parents and how I came to be a Christian especially because you know little to nothing about me sir. You do have a good knowledge of the bible though, and your arguments are very intelligent/thought provoking.
Thanks for the compliment; kind of you to say so.
I appreciate the challenge, you have a lot of well thought out points (side note: what was your masters degree in? After high school I hope to major in Physics/Astrophysics at MSU)
You are right slavery is extremely immoral and it is rampant throughout the old and new testaments. But is the bible not a history of a time period in which these things were a part of society? Yes it was extremely wrong but the only place you find any laws whatsoever restricting the abuse of slaves during this time is in the bible.
Also true is your point that they were slaves, and we should not skirt around that fact at all even though some may try to make it seem not as bad as it is.
In response to the passage you found in leviticus I would like to use the words of Paul: 5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. And also Exodus 21:16 – “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” These are the family morals of the bible, the laws are put in place not as a standard but to restrict those who do evil and are treating slaves horribly. I think I already put forth a response to the passage you used from Luke and as to Ephesians 6:5 and 1Timothy 6 1-2, why should a slave not be respectful, is this not among the teachings of Jesus to love one another no matter who they are no matter how they have wronged us?
As to Job I give you Job chapter 1 6-12: ¨6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.¨ God allowed Job to be tested because he knew his commitment and his love for God and the devil needed to be defeated in this test.
As to So god destroyed his creations which again would include thousands of pregnant women who were carrying 'evil ' children ?I assume you are referring to the story of Noah to which I give Genesis 6:4-5 ¨4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. 5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.¨ You could say that at this point in time it was too late, God saw where man was headed and how the demons had persay ¨infected¨ them.
God creates an imperfect mankind because it pleased him, I mean think about it, make something that is perfect that will automatically choose you or make something imperfect that might love you? Which is a more perfect kind of love? Which is more rewarding? I just don't see the evil or the maliciousness you are describing.
As to your last point there is no way to back your first idea and I would appreciate it if you don´t assume to know about my parents and how I came to be a Christian especially because you know little to nothing about me sir. You do have a good knowledge of the bible though, and your arguments are very intelligent/thought provoking.
Thanks Dermot. Your description of social norms sounds pretty on par with what I was thinking, a majority of people doing something that determines what is acceptable in a certain society.
Again I have to apologize, me claiming to know everything God would approve of is a bit much, however I think I do accept all parts of the bible equally. Maybe if you show me parts of the bible where God does evil things I can look at it too.
When you say Its approved of in the New Testament by Jesus himself who approves of the beating of slaves I would argue that Jesus is not approving of it he is merely saying a parable of what does happen, he does not condone it he merely says this is what happens when a servant does not obey his master correct? I found the scripture you are referring to and read the lines before it as well it says 45 But what if the servant thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? 46 The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant in pieces and banish him with the unfaithful.
47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. 48 But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.
This is a parable about how when the end time comes the unfaithful, those who have chosen their sin over following their master will be cast into the very thing they have chosen, is this not justice to give somebody what they have done, the thing that they have chosen for themselves?
You are right also about how a lot of people on here are bullying others I looked around the site and saw many examples of this.
As to job yes God allowed for his testing but he did not tell the devil too, the devil chose to because he to is a being with freewill. As to Gods destruction of other people, that is true he did destroy the wicked, those who had turned utterly from him and chosen a life of sin, which has a consequence of death.
I am only 15 and I am not quite sure what indoctrination means so it´s kind of hard to take offense to what you are saying.
Alright I need to apologize for the ¨Not smart man.¨ comment I made, it was pretty childish/immature and you are right a majority of people did accept slavery as the norm of society. I would argue though that socially acceptable things changing does not mean morality is evolving because social norms and morality are two different things.
I know of what God does and does not approve of by reading the bible, Exodus 20 says And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
These are the things he does not approve of, an impossible standard to live up to, but one that is just.
And yes you are right that Jesus never once spoke out directly against slavery, but his goal on earth was not to talk about every issue, As said in the ten commandments ¨though shall not steal¨; and what is slavery but thievery of a mans freedom? So no he does not speak out against it directly.
One more thing you are right about Believing in Christ historically has allowed so called Christians justification for horrific acts while hiding behind the bible The bible is clearly used throughout history as justification for horrible things. The bible is nothing but ¨the word of god¨ and ¨a sword¨ but anybody can twist around somebody's words, anybody can use a sword. even the devil misused the bible to try and tempt Jesus.
(thanks for your good points I like trying to reason through them, I apologize once again if I insulted you.)
We justified slavery back then because it was deemed socially and morally acceptable just as it was in the time of Jesus , Hitler branded the Jews an inferior race many Germans agreed with him and felt it was morally correct , just the very same as many Americans thought it morally acceptable to demonise blacks up the 1950s as in widespread discrimination . We? So you are including yourself with people who justified slavery, Hitler and racists? Not smart man. Some Christians back then, sometimes the majority of them, did justify things like those and the crusades back then, just like the crusades. Just because people justified it does not mean God approves. There are good and bad Christians just like their are good and bad´s in other groups and I don´t think that believing in Christ justifies everything you do. I may have misunderstood what you were saying but this is pretty much what I got from it.
Okay first off, I claim to be a Christian and I am a creationist, say what you want. However I don´t see why atheists can´t be moral even if you are from my point of view. It is not that Christians just automatically upgrade unto a new level of goodness when they start to follow Christ, it just means that they are striving to become more like him. I believe that Christ is perfect and I want to be more like that, however in the meantime I will constantly fall short. There are plenty of good men and women that are atheists and their are plenty of people that are Christians who are pretty jacked up. I mean if you look at it from my perspective God made us all with freewill so that we will be able to choose to love him, so that we can choose good. But how can people be free if they cant choose to be bad or good? God is the ultimate source of goodness but that does not mean atheists can not be good. Atheistic morality makes total sense.
Eventually yes, I believe that humans should go to Mars, while not being a priority Mars could be used for resources and a launching point for further space exploration. Any possible missions on mars will also help give us experience for future missions to other planets. Who knows? Maybe on Mars more natural resources could be found, things we are
running out of on earth.
