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2 points

Because understanding the difference between biology and gender roles is worse than actively sabotaging efforts to prevent the decimation of the human race. What fucked up priorities you've got.

This line of thought also evinces a failure to understand the difference between individuals and groups, resulting in the fallacious tendency of conflating individual decisions and beliefs with those of their peers.

He meets the criteria to run for office, so he's running for office. Democrats don't need to like him for him to run as one. The real question will be his success in the polls. Trying to write off a group as hypocrites because a single individual self-identifies with that group is illogical, for it places an impossible burden of agency on an issue over which they have no agency.

Put another way, if a Republican were to Tweet, "The Holohoax never happened!1! #TRUMP2020", would that tweet immediately turn all Republicans into Holocaust deniers? No, because individuals have agency over their own actions, not over the actions of others.

My point exactly.

America lost in Vietnam. America half-lost in Korea. America is losing in Afghanistan and in Iraq.

America has a pretty shitty track record for war.

And yet it seems that nobody is giving a second thought to the consequences of the campaign of demonization against China.

My concern with China stems from my observation that war with China is on the horizon. Only idiots would sooner bury their heads in the sand than prepare for and temper the possibilities of the future destruction of humanity.

If you do not know of China's expansionism then you must have been living on the moon, or maybe even Pluto for the past 30 years or more.

China's alleged expansionism involves asserting its power over lands and waters it traditionally claimed but which it lost during the period of Colonialist vandalism referred to by the Chinese as the Century of Humiliation following the Chinese loss in the Opium War. But I wouldn't call that expansionism, which implies a movement beyond oneself rather than a reclaiming of oneself.

You'd be better off citing One Belt, One Road. But still that would be a very uncharitable interpretation, precisely what one would be expected not to be able to see beyond following a lifetime of vicious propaganda. I say phooey:

America and Europe have spent centuries exploiting the developing world, holding them down and interfering in their internal affairs whenever they feel like it. China comes by and offers them the resources to build themselves up, to follow China's example, quite frankly, and hopefully rise out of the poverty which is a consequence of the centuries of neglect and resultant lack of infrastructure.

It is a congenital characteristic of the human psyche' to be free to follow their heart and pursue their dreams.

Thought-terminating cliche.

It was this free spirit that spawned the pioneers and entrepreneurs that made America the greatest nation on earth.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Thought-terminating cliche.

Rank nonsense.

People the world over will always strive for freedom of political and religion expression and it is wholly wrong of you to expect people to lie down and roll over so their masters can stamp their Jack-Boot on their throats.

At no point did I expect that. Are you daft? My argument is not that Hong Kong should surrender, I've made absolutely no comment whatsoever on the legitimacy of the protests. What I have argued is that the MSM is far too harsh on China, seemingly working to effectively, if not by intent, turn the American populace in favor of going onto the path of war with China. Is there a person on CD who thinks war with China would not mean the end of the human race?

The Hong Kong Issue

Why does every attempt at a discussion about the MSM anti-China propaganda machine turn into a discussion about the merits of Hong Kong? They've been in the streets for months and China has still not "cracked down", despite claims of a crack down for months in the media. It's still going on, growing more and more violent by the protesters, while the police keep firing tear gas and ink and a grand total of 11 bullets (as of Oct 31, see here.) This contrasts quite significantly with the many deaths reported in other protests currently active (see this report from Washington Post). And even though the one death immediately attributable to anybody was a "murder" (as the Chinese reportedly identified it) committed by protesters, they are still shown in the most sympathetic of lights.

Are you daft or merely a troll?

I'm glad somebody is able to see that there's a difference between defending a country's human rights abuses and saying that our extreme hostility towards that country should be tempered by considerations of the planet-destroying consequences of that hostility getting out of hand.

Such extreme hostility. Nobody seems capable of understanding the nuance of this debate. I don't give a fuck what China's like. I'm concerned about the media trying to start a war with China, a war which cannot be won.

Says who? American media?

China is one of the safest countries in the world, with a homicide rate of 0.62 per 100,000 people according to the UN numbers for 2016. America's rate was 5.35.

China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of extreme poverty in the last few years and plans on eliminating extreme poverty entirely by the early 2020s.

America has as many surveillance cameras as China, despite having a billion fewer people. This to preempt accusations that they're a surveillance state (which they probably are, but it should be seen in a comparative perspective lest we judge more harshly than is warranted).

The Western world is content with their fantasies that China is nothing but a hellish totalitarian dystopia. But is it true? We only hear the bad stories. When every single action is viewed through a lens of bigotry, fear, and with an expectation of utter inhumanity, then we are prone to taking moderately negative or even neutral developments as the pinnacle of evil.

At first they said they want the extradition bill to be tossed. That happened. They weren't happy.

Wikipedia has a list of five other demands they've made. I've watched a lot of videos from various news sources - none Chinese, other than SCMP - and the thing that seems to be uniting them is a common sense of frustration against China. How can that end? Have China step back and give Hong Kong independence? What do they actually want to see? I've read dozens of articles and watched many hours of video, but I'm not entirely clear what solid aims they have other than to voice their discontent as much as possible.

I hear so many anti-China people calling China "expansionist". What justification do you have for that? It is strutted about as if it is just plain obvious, everybody wants to conquer the world. That seems to me to be a very Western mentality, one which I've not seen reflected in any of the Chinese history or literature I've read.

But at the end of the day, discussing whether or not China is worthy of condemnation is not what I'm interested in here. My issue is whether or not it is wise to continue provoking one of the most powerful countries on earth with a never-ending onslaught of extremely one-sided claims, some false, some true, seemingly designed to create popular hostility against them to the point where war could easily become palatable to the broader public. This especially given that America can't even win a war against Afghanistan or Iraq, small, powerless third-world countries.

Would you disagree that their anti-terrorism policies, if they are as you describe, seem significantly more human-friendly than America's? They may deprive people of their rights, which is not a good thing, but America's deprives people of their lives, many thousands of people, many completely innocent. Additionally, the destruction of infrastructure in places like Iraq and Afghanistan severely punishes so much of the population, the vast majority of whom are innocent. Contrarily, China is working to economically develop Xinjiang.

0 points

You seem to misunderstand my argument, as seems to be the case every single time I have ever discussed this with anybody.

I am not defending China.

I'm saying it's idiotic to be demonizing China as rabidly as we are.

This debate title is a tautology.

Liberals are liberal, hence their name.

Do you mean the American Democratic Party? They're pretty damn center, but nowhere near as bad as they could be. It is a shame, Americans, that you don't know what it is like to live in a nation that is so afraid of change, so afraid of all these scary banned words. In regular countries, children fear the bogeyman in the closet. In America, children fear the communist going around taking away anything that makes him better than his age-mates.

0 points

If you feel so strongly about the Democrats being liars, I'd hate to know what you feel for the Republicans.

0 points

Terminator Salvation is out of the equation, considering that Schwarzenegger had nothing to do with it; however, he has been involved in various other projects: The Expendables, appearing for the first time next to Willis (and the legendary Sylvester Stallone), Predator, which spawned many sequels and was lauded by many as one of the greatest action films of the century; Commando, Total Recall, and the two Conan films are more examples of his greatness.

Where was Bruce Willis whilst Arnold was making some of the most memorable examples of the action genre? Moonlighting.

Bruce Willis may have more versatility in that he can act in a variety of movies - Arnold, too, has done a variety - but Schwarzenegger has proven that he is more than just an actor: governor, bodybuilder, action star. He may not have the filmography of Bruce Willis, but you must remember that these other endeavours have taken up quite a bit of his time; memorable in the films he has starred in, he has appeared as Hercules, as The Terminator in one of the highest rated film franchises ever made, and even as a cop-cum-kindergarten teacher.

0 points

I shouldn't have won most missed, I'm back. Isn't that what I said in the last movie, I'll be back. I meant it! A TERMINATOR is never really gone for good.

Well, I guess you win. I like your first religious debate idea, I'll go challenge you now.

2 points

Bruce Willis may have been in some classics, but Arnold is Arnold. He has the body and the style of a true action hero, and the cinematic masterpieces to back up such a claim. From playing Hercules to a kindergarten teacher, he shows off his excellence in action heroism, never failing to excite and amaze.

2 points

My longtime ally, you've been a pleasure to have on this site. Wouldn't have been as good without you.

Where's the "Nobody should vote. Democracy is bullshit" option? Well, I guess that's how new debates are come up with.

Educated people - depending on just how educated you're talking - can be out of touch with reality. They shouldn't be held as the deciders of right and wrong, they're just people.

Everybody should decide what is right and wrong for themselves. Vote AnarchY!

Yeah, I think he mentioned something like that. Why don't we just ask him?

TERMINATOR, are you Canadian?

Why yes I am, dear TERMINATOR.

See that. We are all crazy up here.

I haven't been around for awhile, but do I still get one?


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