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1 point

You sound a little conflicted, as any logical person trying to believe this garbage would be. I'm going to look at the bible logically like you said and pose a question: If Jesus died for my sins, why does it matter what I do or think? Logically, either my sins are paid for, or they are not. If Christ really did die for my sins, I'm going to sin. It would be a shame to waste already-paid-for sins right?

The typical christian belief is that if you don't accept Jesus as your saviour, you are not saved, and therefore will go to hell.

I don't believe this - I think it would be rediculous to sacrifice your own son, just so 1/3 of the world can be saved.

I believe Jesus saved EVERYONE, not just the people who will believe, but all sins that were made and were yet to make.

So I believe that you will see me in Heaven, although you don't believe.

I do believe you have a choice though, I don't think God will force people to be with him. I believe you will have the choice of living with him for all eternity, or just delete your existence. I don't believe in any place called Hell.

The bible sais that Jesus defeated Satan on the cross - if that is so, then satan is dead.

1 point

Hahaha .. yeah I'm not a muslim.

I don't know how that got there, sorry about that.

I'm agnostic theist .. I think I mentioned it before.

1 point

I know the feeling very well. Church use to feel like a safe place for me too. Unfortunately, what you are finding comfort in is not god.

I get that you don't believe so, but I do.

I don't have evidence or .. yeah I don't have any proof what so ever that my religion is real - all the evidence I've got are, that I feel and believe.

I know it sounds ridiculous. But I am not hurting people with my faith.

You can say that christians have killed millions through the years, and christians are the ones who cause all wars and stuff.

But those people aren't me .. I haven't killed or started war, I can't take responsibility for people, just because they believe the same as I do.

Carbon dating can scientifically prove, for a fact, that the earth is at least many million years old

Yeah, I also believe it is.

What I think is, that a 'year' in the bible time is supposedly not 365 days. Because they hadn't equipments to find out how long it took the earth to circle the sun - in 1400 they still thought the sun was traveling around the earth.

So I believe, that what the bible says is a year or a week .. a month or even a day or an hour, could be much, much more than what we call a year, month, week or day.

If Christ really did die for my sins, I'm going to sin. It would be a shame to waste already-paid-for sins right?

Yes I do believe that your sins are already paid for. I also believe you can do whatever you want, you will still get into Heaven.

But it's just about how I feel. I mean .. when I steal and lie and do other sins, I feel terrible.

So if you can go around doing these things, with your conscience up top .. then it's okay. But personally for me, I don't wanna do that.

1 point

So, what happened to the second argument a few posts up because I'd like to know too, Birgitsiv. How has god influenced your life?

in so many ways, many ways I can't explain. So many ways that it would take me forever to tell you everything.

It is almost impossible to really tell you, because .. yeah it just is.

But I will try of course.

When I feel down, when I feel sad .. I turn to God and everything just .. brightens up a bit.

I've prayed several times, and I've often tried to get what I prayed for.

When I am in church I feel so safe, I feel God beside me - not just in church of course. Everywhere.

I just feel so safe and happy whenever I read the bible or am in a meeting in church or something.

I see no evidence of 'god' interacting with his creation at all.

I get your point .. but seriously. Try to look logically at the bible, even though there isn't much logic in it .. but do it anyway.

The bible tells us God is all powerful right ? So if he were all powerful, he would also be able to delete all tracks from him creating the world, wouldn't he ?

Or he would be able to simply not leave tracks behind him.

But then you could ask why he would do that, and I don't know the answer to this. I believe he has a reason, whatever it is.

How and why does he do so?

I don't know. I'm not God, I can't answer for him. All I know is, that he does.

Many believers are not 'blessed' though. Why is that so?

When you say blessed, do you mean like .. saved ?

Because that isn't true. The bible says (john 3,16) That if you believe you are saved, no matter what.

But some people are in church every sunday, they pray and they read the bible, they do everything a christian does - but what they don't do is believing. They are not saved. If you don't believe, you're not saved.

But I don't believe that really. I believe everyone is saved, no matter if you believe or not.

Because when Jesus died on the cross, he yelled 'it's done' (or something like that .. my bible isn't english, so I don't know what the english words are)

What was done ? Saving 1/3 of the world ? What kind of celebration is that?

I believe that he saved everyone on that cross.

1 point

I only read the first line, so that is the only one I'm gonna reply to.

Sorry, but I can guess what stands in the other lines - I've heard it all of it before, so don't think you're gonna change any of my views on the bible or God.

Yes, it is certainly likely that the other part is a metaphor. In fact, there is a huge enormous chance, that everything written in the bible is fake. That chance is huge.

But that is just how I chose to live my life. That is how I want to live my life, that is what I believe.

I am not harming anybody with my belief.

Not even homosexuals - because I support gay marriage.

When somebody can show me a real reason why I shouldn't believe, I will without a doubt take it seriously.

But at this point, I am not harming anybody.

You can throw stuff like 'religion is causing war' in my face. But personally I never started a war. Personally I am not the people who are against two people of the same gender getting married.

I can't help what other people who believe the same as I do, do. I can only answer for me, not christianity in general.

1 point

Then I my searching wasn't so good :p.............

I think putting my country as danish is kind of an habbit, because many sites just ignore us xx8

1 point

I have no problem in helping other people.

What I don't like is to be FORCED to help people. Because the government litteraly takes the money without asking me.

Also, I want to help people.

I want to help old people that need chairs and meds and whatever, and I also want to help poor people that don't have a house or food. I have nothing against helping retarded people who need special equipment to make their daily life easier.

What do you mean about I don't understand taxes?

I know exactly how much I pay to the government every month.

What I really don't like, is to help people, who put themselves in the crap they're in.

Most people (I am aware, that old people who're like .. 90 they didn't know the consequenses about cigarrettes and stuff ) most people who smoke, know before they do, that this can harm your body.

So why should I help them? They put themselves in the crap, I don't want to have anything to do with it. They can pay the consequence that they were risking.

And what do you mean I don't understand taxes?

I know exactly what I pay to the government each month.

1 point

Well, this is just another insident of how americans think they're the only people living on earth, and how their politics rule the world.

I hate to break this to you, but I don't live in the states. In my country the taxes are 30% for me, higher for some, lower for some - depends on how much you earn.

If you did look at my profile, which says I am danish (i think), then you're not so bad after all.

I am not danish, my country does not exist in the country list in CD.. so I just had to pick Denmark. Our tax system is not the same as in Denmark.

1 point

Because to eliminate tax as we know it, is something that is NEVER going to happen. There are to many people who disagree with me.

Therefor, I just have to try and illegalize drugs, since the other thing is impossible.

1 point

Because I believe that the bible speaks in metaphors........

1 point

1)

I think you are not reading my replies propertly. I said I am agnostic theist - that means I believe everything is possible, BUT what I feel strongest about is christianity. Therefore I am not arrogant.

2) I don't think I am 'claiming' that the bible is the aboslute truth. If I did make you think so I am very sorry.

I believe the bible - if it's the truth, time will tell.

Why do you think that is?

I think one of the main reasons is that now you can chose what you believe. You don't have to go very longer than 100 years back in time, where people who didn't believe in any God were killed.

Still this happens today in islamic countries.

1 point

Just so you know, women don't shit blood. If she's shitting blood, it's hemorrhoids or some other dire medical condition. The blood each month comes from a completely different channel.

It comes from the ass, and you're a male - I don't think your argument is valid here, since you've never tried it.

When you say that the average woman gives birth to three children, that statistic is really so 1950s. According to the 2000 census, the average number of children is actually .9. So, you can see a lot of women aren't having children at all. So, if she's still using the Mama excuse for not getting ahead in the workplace, it's pathetic.

I looked up some statics, and it says that the average american family has 2 children. Where I live, the average family has 3-4 children.

In amish cultures the average children births are 7 :O) amazing right? :p

It's not pathetic to use mama excuse to not work if you ACTUALLY have children.

As you say, in a typical relationship the woman is most likely to stop her career and stay home with the kids. That's because it's socially acceptable for her to do so.

I know, what's your point?

When you're a woman, it's perfectly acceptable to be without a job at any point during your life. No one looks at you like you're a loser. If you're a man, even if you have plenty of money, women look down on you if you don't work.

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. I think it is pathetic. If I had a child, I would HAVE to stop working, just so my husband could keep his reputation. That is just wrong. Women should be able to go to work, while men stayed home, it isn't fair, that we always have to just stop our lives completely, while you live life.

I think most women look absolutely ridiculous the way they fix themselves up like whores.

We're not talking abot high school girls. Or i'm not.

Nor do I think smearing thick black shit around her eyes makes her look alluring. It makes her look like a clown.

How old are you? Have you seen women today? Little girls do that, not women.

1 point

1) Why are atheists so arrogant to believe there is no God up there?

Besides, I am a little agnostic, so I believe everything is possible. That doesn't make me arrogant does it?

3) If you aren't interested in reading it, why are you interested in debating abou tit?

Yeah, you would call me crazy, but frankly I don't care. I share this with 1/3 of the world population you know? This isn't something I made up. I have friends who say the same, they talk to God and God talks to us.

2 points

If you look at it healthy wise, then yes it is.

Very few people eat during sleep, so we sleep for 8 hours without any food. Also doctors recommend that you don't eat right before sleep, we should eat 3 hours before we go to sleep.

That means 8-10 or more hours without food, and that is a lot. Your body has at that point no energy left from the food to burn.

Therefore it is wise to eat a big healthy breakfast, that would keep us going for at least 6 hours, of course with a good snack after 3 hours or so.

It's really healthy to eat big meals at certain points of the day, together with three snacks.

If you chose 6 points of the day where you eat, and then you never eat other times, then I promise you, you will lose some pounds. But then you have to remember to eat healthy, not small portions but healthy.

Eat at 7 am and then 12 and 6 pm. Eat your snacks at 10 am and 3 and 9 pm.

Eat no other time of the day, of course you can decide what time you eat yourself, but just stick with it :p

That is valid for all people, people who want to lose AND people who want to put on weight, and also people who are satisfied with themselves, and just want to be healthy.

1 point

I don't eat much of it anymore, you know because of all the bad chemicals they've found in them.

But they taste like .. it's like a beaf. It's really dark meat.. or I don't know.

Some boil it and some fry it. We eat it with potatoes and the fat of the whale you know? it has a layer of fat first, then there's meat.

1 point

1) I didn't mean a particular God. Either there is a God or there is not.

3) The bible is kind of what christianity is. If you want your arguments to be valid in such a debate, I recommend you read it.

The bible is a book written by Humans, inspired by God. Human beings aren't perfect, we all make mistakes. There were hundreds if not thousands who participated in writing the bible - and then there were those who translated it. That's why I rely on what God tells directly to me, and not what I read in the bible.

4) I agree with you here, if I told the people in my church, that I don't believe in any place called Hell .. they would probably kind of shocked since that's the thing we learn about there.

1 point

Hehe, it's okay :p

I'd rather have an ugly nickname than no nickname :o)

1 point

1) actually it's fifty fifty, either there is or there is no God.

2) I didn't say I didn't work for my success. But still I have a LOT to thank for. You said so yourself, you see tortured people everywhere, don't you think you are lucky?

Don't you think you have a lot to be thankful for? I don't mean thankful to God but ..

3) Well I am not gonna ask you to read it, although I think it is kind of silly, when people start debating with me about christianity, when they haven't read the bible.

What if I started to debate about Harry Potter books, even though I never read them? That would just be silly and pointless.

My point there was, that the bible doesn't ONLY carry errors or fairy tales. It has actually some wise words.

I know that the bible has errors, I don't believe the bible though, I believe in God.

4)

Define christian: A person who believe in Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.

Whether I believe there is a Hell or not, or whether I am baptized or not doesn't matter.

I don't care very much about if other christian think I'm not one, they can call me what they want.

If you don't believe exactly what others believe you are an outcast.

What point are you trying to make?

Aren't we all outcasts when it comes to religion? I mean, we all have our personal point of views.

1 point

OH MY GOD, not you tooo!??!?!?! why is everyone calling me Birggy? It's ugly :o)

1 point

yes...................................................................

1 point

None, I don't have a perfect body, but I watch what I eat.

The second and the third one maybe.

2 points

1) I believe there that the Christian God is the only God, but I am a little agnostic, I believe everything is possible.

2) I know I know, I guess what I meant is when we get to Heaven it was worth it or something. I'm not sure what I meant to say. If there is no Heaven? Then there is no Heaven, as I said everything is possible.

You have clothes on your body, a full stomach and a roof over your head because YOU went out and worked to earn money to buy those things. At no point did "god" have any influence on this situation.

Wow you're such a genius. Why aren't all the people in the world just working to get out of their starvation and torture? Why don't we all just go to work?

I could easily be born in some part of the world, where I would have to struggle for .. a zip of water.

God blessed me with a job, so I could earn money.

3) I am aware of that, but still. The bible holds a lot of wise words, that no matter if you're Christian or not you should follow. Like loving your neighbor and stuff, you know what I'm talking about right?

What others believe, or what religion does to the world I cannot change. I can only change what I do, and I am not trying to hurt anybody on purpose. I've never participated in any wars..

5) I am from the Faroe Islands, it's in Europe :) And I do agree with you on the money and the national song thing. I think it is stupid to chose a religion for a country. People should be able to decide for themselves whether they want to believe or not.

Btw. about the 5 billion people who are going to hell, I just wanted to comment that I don't believe in any place called Hell.

Where I go to church, we baptize people when they're adults. They chose for themselves, if someone wants to be baptized they go to the priest, and they will. I was never forced to anything, maybe except Sunday school as a kid, but I think that was good for me if you look at it socially. There were a lot of children there, and that's kind of where I got my first friends and stuff, so even though I didn't believe today, I would never wish my parents didn't send me to Sunday school.

1 point

1) Yeah I get that a lot. There are suggestions? What does that mean? Atheists I've debated with asked me to give them a logical reason why I believe in God. But all they can come up with are suggestions. I don't see why I should disbelieve something just because some guy suggested it.

2) I have clothes on my body, my stomach is full and a roof over my head. Unlike millions if not billions of people, I have those three blessings. I know what you're gonna ask next - why does he give me these things but not them? We don't all get the same, but we all get to Heaven, and no matter how terrible our lives were on earth, we will not think about it when we get to Heaven.

3) What makes you think I don't live my life as I want to? I want to be a good person. There is nothing bad with believing. I am not hurting anybody with my belief. No one is forcing me to believe, I chose it myself.

And to be 100% honest, I would rather believe in God and find out there wasn't any, than not believe in God and find out he actually existed.

4) Lol. When is the last time atheism affected my life? I am attacked by questions of all the atheist I know, they all try their hardest to get me to realize there is no God. And you say, that you have a better life? I don't see a good life with trying to get others to believe the same, that is what I call crazy obsession, not living life.

I'm not saying you do this. But I don't go around trying to convince people to believe, I don't ask people to come to church with me, because I know they are just as annoyed to be invited to church, as I am when they ask me questions about why I believe.

Why should something that can't be proven be forced into my every day life?

Why should something that can't be proven be forced into MY every day life? as I just told you, several atheist are obsessed about trying to make all christians nonbelievers.

You're belief can't be proven, my belief can't be proven, shall we live in peace together?

1 point

Why can I only pick between no and this?

I think yes, I don't we're seduced by sex.

I think sex is necessary for a lot of reasons. Reproduction and stimulation of a relationship. It brings you and your partner closer together on another level.

A couple without sex doesn't know each other as well as an asexual couple.


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