Autonomy and free will basically mean the same exact thing if im going off the definitions i pulled up that has to deal with philosophical/theological issues, they are the exact same thing.
Free will: I choose my own decisions, and i hold myself accountable and responsible for the decisions i make, with autonomy, i pulled up the same exact definition. "autonomy is often used as the basis for determining moral responsibility and accountability for one's actions."
That sounds like the exact same thing
Morality has to be the same throughout everyone, if someone sees their murderous actions as justified because their child was killed, thats acceptable, thats an eye for an eye, thats fine.
But if you just say "i justify murder because i find it morally acceptable" That person is probably mentally ill.
You can not have differing morality, there is good and bad, dark and light, holy and evil...
Thats like saying you have 20 people, 10 of them believe murder is morally acceptable, the other 10 do not...
As long as it doesnt interfere with someones personal rights, then it is morally acceptable.
If it doesnt affect anyone, its ok, if it affects others, its not ok.
I understand the stories, and the history, i am talking about when jesus actually spoke to the masses and his disciples, he told 2 very different tales of the same story.
The things that jesus spoke of though, were mostly parables, they can be taken two ways, one is the way he spoke to the masses, and one is the weay he spoke to his disciples in private.
ok but these are moral truths, theyre not really debatable.
Murder is bad, taking someones free will away, is bad.
You can not justify interfering with someones free will no matter how hard you try...
even if it makes said murderer happy to murder people, he is intruding on others free will.
If he murdered himself, no problem, but you cant debate that moral truths are debatable, because they are not.
Morals are not chosen by society, they are ingrained, anyone who fails to see their morality has no empathy, and is self conscious.
Thats not wrong, but its not good
so are you against childrens stories that have a deeper psychological and moral meaning too?
Or do you fully believe in those?
I know, i have a best friend whose parents were not as bad as THAT, but he was pretty indoctrinated it tookk me years to open up his mind lol, well he opened it up of his own accord but i think i helped him...
But yeah, its terrible i hate that.
No, there would be another faction that rises up, havent you ever read 1984?
Obviously this faction would be greatly underpowered, but the terminator movies pretty much mirror what would happen if one government rose up.
There will always be an opposing side, always.
and also to answer your dispute, what is wrong with the basic premise that if your life is filled with anger, hatred, greed, and fear, that your afterlife will be filled with the same things? And vice versa, if you live a life full of joy and happiness and altruism, then your afterlife will mirror the same thing.
Obviously there is no proof of this, but why do alot of scientists believe in god? Why would atheists all of a sudden change their views to believe in god after having a crisis in their personal life?
Thats all religion is for: YOUR PERSONAL LIFE and to help you get through problems, its not meant to replace government, or become the law of the world.
But it is something that helps you cope with the daily struggles of life, if you havent found it that sucks, but i have and billions of other people have.
So, all youre doing is sounding like a parrot repeating what everyone else says about religion, how about think for yourself and go explore it and take from it what YOU will not what some church leader says
Dude, you have no clue what you're talking about, there is a very real spiritual side to life, and tampering with it IS dangerous for your psyche.
Yes, teaching children that they have to eat the bread and drink the wine is messed up, but there is no way a child can grasp the meaning of what that is, at least not in western society.
Stop mixing me in with your general view of religion, I am against organized religin its the work of the devil, even jesus himself stated that but for some reason noone has listened to that part of what he said.
So, i am probably on your side, i just have a religious nature to me, and religion can be used as a word in different ways, i am talking about believing in god and having a set f beliefs with it.
Does that mean i suck up to god or am going to force what i believe onto my children?
No, ill talk to them, about the possibilities of what could happen when we die, but i will never force anything on them.
Not everyone that believes in god is a nut job buddy, you need to stop making rash conclusions, its very annoying.
How come it is ok for you to tell me to embrace the other side of my brain when you refuse to embrace the other side of yours?
I use the other side of my brain, with string theory and quantum physics, those are very interesting things to me and i sort of somewhat understand them, but i can still put a spiritual side to it.
You cant put logic into irrationality but you can make logic irrational.
No, I don't sorry pal, I wasn't able to connect Adam with Occam.
Youve never heard the story?
weird.
yes i understand occams razor cant be used in a theological discussion, it can be, but it wont be very effective, but still, assuming a creating force of some type exists seems to have way less assumptions about it than no creating force existing.
I literally can not think of no creating force existing, like my brain LITERALLY wont let me.
Whats weird though is you know how when you lay down and lay on your side you can "feel" the side of your brain you are laying on, like the blood is rushing to it? Idk if you know what im talking about, but anyways, i literally cant feel anything in my left side brain when im just in a upright position.
I took a test once, it determined which part of your brain you use more i use 80% of my right brain, which i know isnt good, so i am trying to be more logical to get a 50-50 balance because that kind of blew my mind lol...
But yea, i know im not very logical but im not just gonna stop believing in god lol i literally can not not believe in god, my mind will not let me, i can think of what no creator would be like or having no god, but i can not convince myself it doesnt exist. i literally can not.
Wow are you missing the point completely.
Read this very carefully: WHEN BOTH PARTIES CONSENT TO UNPROTECTED THEY BOTH KNOW IN ADVANCE THE RISKS OF BEING PREGNANT SO IF YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE A CHILD USE A CONDOM.
You can refuse sex if you are not ready to have a child and the man doesnt want to use a condom, but if a woman and the man have unprotected sex, they know damn well the risk they are taking and abortion should be illegal in that case.
Im saying that if you killed my child to be, it might be justified.
it might.
I mean its my child at that point obviously the woman doesnt want it, she takes my childs life, ill take somebodys life for doing that.
Sure murder is a little harsh, but... so is taking a child away from someone who really wants it.
there is a huge difference between a friend with benefits and a soul mate
God is not the more convenient answer
remember when he told adam not to eat from the tree of life?
Because god is not something simple to believe in, you have a scientific mind i have a spiritual mind, left brain/right brain, you're logical, im irrational, neither is wrong, yin and yang, light and dark, they mix together, how about instead of knocking off god completely you embrace the other side of your brain?
it cant really be used with god, as you can tell from mine and cartmans debate, theological issues just go to deep and are too personal for that, but it can be kind of used
No, no, no. When BOTH PARTIES have consented to HAVING A CHILD, then that means it is NO LONGER up to the woman to decide what happens with the fetus.
IF YOU CONSENT to having unprotected sex, and you and the man know FULL WELL there is a chance of pregnancy, then it must be decided BY BOTH PARTIES what will happen to the child.
If YOU don't want to give birth, and the man WANTS THE CHILD, and you abort it, then that is morally unacceptable.
This no longer has to do with "my body my right" This has to do with the seed being the man, literally, it is a part of him, and if you don't want it but he does, then you CAN NOT ABORT IT, if you do, then there may be no actual consequences, but do you not understand what is happening?
That is the most fucked up thing I have ever heard of.
If you and the man BOTH consent to unprotected sex, both parties know full well the risk being involved.
We are not arguing whether it is the right of a man to go use a womans body to produce a child, obviously it is not.
What we are discussing is a man who wants a child and you both agreed to unprotected sex, yet you think you have full owner ship? How about fuck no you do not, you better have that child and give it to me if you don't want it, because at that point, its MY child, NOT YOURS. You obviously don't want it, and I do. I want to raise it and teach it the ways of life.
If you were to somehow interefere with that, i think i could justify murder.
Just saying.
If it was rape, it would be a completely different story, but I already covered that, and it seems like you didn't read it whatsoever.
That pisses me off that you think that way when BOTH PARTIES CONSENT TO UNPROTECTED SEX.
All i was trying to do was show you that there is a simple explanation for god, it may be highly irrational, but its simple.....
i just wanted to explain to you to show you that god is the simpler of the two theories, therefore it has the fewer assumptions, it was never created, the big bang somehow was
Right there we have to assume way more things about the big bang than we do about god
an asteroid, plagues, earthquakes and floods and famine will come soon enough calm down, youre no different than anyone else youll be gone too
i used to wonder as a child how could god have created himself, and ive recently learned in my life, whatever god is (i really hope you dont think of some old man with a white beard) it exists outside of time and space.
Youve seen how our universe is "circular" in the sense that if you keep going you will pop back up at the same location (i read that somewhere and saw it on something like through the wormhole http://io9.com/
If you think about it, what exists outside of the universe? Or, what if you go to far out in the universe and the natural laws of physics that we are aware of cease to exist?
Obviously these are all theories and i will never claim to know god exists 100% for a fact, but i have a very strong feeling it does, and through past experience i would say it exists, i strongly believe some type of guiding/creating force exists, that exists outside of our universe in a timeless, spaceless dimension.
i am saying the opposite of what you said i said, i never said using hell wasn't necessary, just from my experiences, that side of religion is very alive and very real, negative forces are at work all around us whether they be in the form of greed or actual possession, ive never sen possession, but i believe it is possible
That shit is no joke, thats why the bible warns against going to psychics or other people for spiritual advice, which i have a hard time following and paying attention to, but yes if you are not prepared to enter the spirit world then you will get fucked mentally.
I have only seen one physical demon, completely sober, in my life and that was a very strange experience.
So i dont think how you would find it reasonable to leave that part out of religion, thats one of the most important parts to explain....
I hate hollywood and what they do, they're evil, but saying what you're saying is the same as me saying the military is responsible for every single person's personal choice to join, because of all the commercials, and the "I want you's" and the "Kill the terrorists dont let them win"
Why havent i been affected by that? I have grown up all around it but have made the personal choice not to be affected by the propaganda, i WANT to join, just to learn certain skill sets, but thats for another topic...
And also, the entire statement of hitchens razor can be dismissed as having no evidence...
so ill use hitchens razor AGAINST hitchens razor, and voila, contradictions.
LOL
