if a person has no faith, why would they see any need to pray? we are operating under the assumption that prayers are born from those who believe. christians say "God answers prayer, and sometimes the answer is no." when the answer is no, the result of the prayer is the same as it would be if a person hadn't prayed at all, or if there is no god to hear or answer their prayers. so how does one make the claim that all prayers are answered?
in this paradigm, an old shoe could answer as many prayers as god. if confirmation is made through bias, any notion can be confirmed.
events occur. sometimes we influence this occurance, and sometimes events occur randomly. random events may occur at any given time, so when you say 'prayer may be answered immediatey or after a long time, your'e supporting the argument that a divinely answered prayer is no different than a prayer answered by an old shoe.
what you should be attempting to show , if you believe prayer is answered, is how an answered prayer is distinguishable from a random occurence or an unanswered prayer.
as i have already stated. good and bad things happen whether or not we pray. how do you distinguish an answered prayer from an unanswered prayer, an unheard prayer, an ignored prayer, or a random occurance? by your description all of these things look indistinguishable. given enough time, good, and bad things happen. so to say sometimes it happens after a long period of time is a hollow argument.
it's 11 - dimensional bacon.
like i said, it's just special pleading. why? because the attributes of your god are coming from you and constructed specifically to fit the criterion necessary to make your argument work.
kalaam's cosmological argument does the same thing. there is nothing to keep it honest because said deity is beyond practical examination. yet you know all about said god because you made him to fit the necessary criterion.
'I always pray to god about the weirdest things that i want happening to me, they happen, they really do, just never to me.'
then you cannot call this an 'answered prayer'. trillions of events transpire daily without the need for prayer. its the nature of the world we live in.
'God helps those who help themselves.'
How does a person with stage 4 terminal cancer help himself? How does a child born with cancer or hiv help himself? How does a teen with progeria help himself? Who really needs help to do what they can do for themselves? 'Oh I prayed for that job and god helped me get it." "god please get this stain out of my dress, it's my favorite dress.' if god only helps us to do things we can do without a god's help, how do we distinguish answered prayers from prayers that fell on deaf ears? if god only helps those who help themselves, an old shoe would appear to answer just as many prayers as god does.
what you deem 'answered prayer' can be too easily dismissed as confirmation bias.
its not about telling anyone what to believe. if you cant get him to have a discussion with logic as the common ground, then there is no point to it. no need comparing apples and oranges. philosophy is not actuality, and if a person wont even admit that, then you cant really cover any ground. he wont provide evidence, he wont operate within the confines of logic and all he gives is his opinion in matters where opinion and special pleas hold absolutely no weight, so what really is the point? there is none. besides, i don't wanna spend all my time explaining basic shit if i can debate with someone who already understands logic and fallacy. anyone can take whatever feels good and argue against anything that threatens it. we're not in a sandbox here. but have fun. my wheels have spun
