i spent a great deal of time explaining all that stuff already. he doesnt get it because he needs for it to be wrong. because in his mind, he cant fathom his god allowing people to be born atheist. you cant expect ppl with such heavy indoctrination to turn around and be intellectually honest. it's the equivalent of deciding to take a trip to hell.

no matter what you say, he's gonna disagree and commit logical fallacy in the process.

No I do not believe God is real. I don't even think god belief is real belief. I think its a philosophy of denial.

'Good and evil' are just words we use to describe varying levels of empathy and indifference.

What those words means to me is not what they mean to you.

I don't think like you. At least not when it comes to this sort of thing.

I'm not getting your point, because your point is subjectively based on what you believe,

not on an actual understanding of atheism or epistemology.

I'm not going to go through that again with you.

Either you get it or you don't, and either way is fine with me.

you must understand that anyone who believes in any religion can say some evil entity wants you not to believe in it.

that's not at all compelling . it's logically fallacious.

we don't care about the evil desires of beings we don't believe to exist.

"Sauron wants you to be a Christian". if anyone tells you that, they would lose all credibility in your eyes. Rightfully so.

"the reason why there is so many religions is to confuse everybody from going to Christianity." all kinds of fallacy there.

without flesh it is not possible to walk. sorry. maybe i should've allowed you to believe you're floating around without your feet touching the ground. you are vitriolic and extremely hateful. any religious philosophy worth holding, is completely wasted on you.

'If its genetic wise guy, then why are there twice as many gays in cities like Seattle and San Francisco then everywhere else (by proportion)? What is that just some kind of fluke?'

there are twice as many gays in seattle and san francisco because like everyone else, gays want to live amongst those who are accepting, not backwater bigots and bible thumpers who want to kill them. ppl move to communities they want to live in. that's why.

why are there so many blacks in black communities?

why are there communities called 'chinatown' and 'little armenia?'

you certainly have not given this much thought.

marriage has existed since long before anyone ever heard of christianity. so no one needs a christian preacher to perform the ceremony., and let's not forget that christian preachers are somewhat revered for their pedophilia. if i was gay, i wouldn't want my marriage tainted by a christian preacher.

It's a good thing we don't spend a lot of time and money on punishing dead ppl. because they would never know they're being punished. no awareness without a brain.

please stay in school. you seem to have trouble understanding the most basic of logical concepts.

no one claims, 'a nonexistent demon wants you to be a christian". because there is no reason to believe that a demon never proven to exist 'wants' anything.

there is nothing riding on proving satan doesnt exist. but a lot is riding on the belief that he does. billions of dollars are at stake, so is political power. there are those who benefit from your belief in satan. thats why fear is cultivated through religion. it increases tithes sevenfold.

I am not a christian and i don't have faith in the bible, but even if i did, that would not prove that the bible is true. I have no reason to hold the bible as truthful or authoritative,. its words make naked claims, just like yours. they demonstrate nothing but an old style of writing ancient parables.

I asked you to demonstrate the existence of satan, not to paste words from an old book. you don't seem to know the difference.

What you believe is obvious. But what can you demonstrate? Demonstrate the existence of Satan. Not ancient writings.

You haven't demonstrated satan to exist. start there.

otherwise, claiming that 'satan obviously wants this or that' is like me claiming that unicorns obviously want candy corn.

thats the point of the whole discussion. ppl talk about something they cannot know to exist as if its something that is clearly defined and existent. now how many answers did you give before you stated 'we don't know?'

there is clearly no reason to believe in 'the spirit'. because there is nothing empirically quantifiable known as 'the spirit'.

Logically, would satan want anything if he doesn't exist?

either heaven and hell are states of mind, or they don't exist period.

No one is asking you to come here and preach.

demonstrate the existence of the devil and his desire for you to be an atheist or admit that you cannot. all your empty claims about gods , dont demonstrate anything but your beliefs., no one here is unfamiliar with christianity or its naked and empty fallacious claims.

"I have friends that are Christians that didn't grow-up in any kind of church at all but follow God when they felt God pulling at their heart."

I hope you realize that this entire phrase is completely meaningless. youre not talking to a 6 year old.

and you have not demonstrated the existence of the devil or shown that this devil desires anything. which is what this debate is actually about.

none of that has anything to do with the question i am asking here. maybe you have nothing else to add to the topic at hand.

human intent is not just one thing. human beings have all kinds of intentions. their intentions depend on their goals. stop making appeals to ignorance. all you're doing is trying to get me to say 'i don't know', so you can act like a lack of knowledge makes it likely that a god did it. but it doesn't. you need to actually demonstrate that a god did it if you choose to posit this. appeals to ignorance are pure fallacy. if you don't know, just say you don't know, don't try shape the unknown into something personal with intent.

that is intellectually dishonest, it is primitive and superstitious and man has progressed so far beyond that.

not to mention that it is totally beside the point. I asked, what is the spirit? either you know, you have some idea, or you don't.

srom seems to have some trouble grasping that fact. but that doesn't matter. as he's so far failed to demonstrate that which the devil desires or that he exists to desire anything.

now. to say that the devil wants you to be an atheist, you must have some way of determining that the devil actually exists, and of determining his desires.

you have no way of determining or demonstrating the existence of the devil, satan or lucifer, and you have ignored that fact and gone on to state what the devil desires and your statement is based on a book of old writings indistinguishable from folklore and mythology.. hence there is no reason to take you seriously. because you haven't given any reason why anyone should hold this book or your naked claims, as truthful or authoritative? until you do, your arguments qualify only as special pleas and appeals to belief. both logically fallacious.

everyone is born atheist. the religion of his family members is completely irrelevant. in order for a person to believe in a god, he must be taught to believe in a god. before he is taught this, he lacks belief in a god. he is therefore an atheist. there is no denying this. you simply do not understand this but it is an established fact.

the universe didn't 'decide to make life'. you're applying human properties to the universe. no different than the Norse personifying thunder as an act of Thor. you don't have to place human intent behind everything you don't understand. its 2012 not 1200 b.c.

everyone is born an atheist. an atheist is one who lacks belief in a god, everyone is born lacking belief in a god. god belief is the product of indoctrination. lack of belief does not require you to be taught anything.

you act as if we are born believing in everything and someone has to convince us not to. that is not the case. we are born lacking believe in ghosts gods and other superstitious notions. these are culturally propagated. atheism is simply a lack of belief. you are born lacking belief in a god. lacking belief is not rejecting a belief that you have never been introduced to. you dont understand epistemology.

so thats why everyone is born an atheist? then the devil must be more powerful than all powerful god, because atheism is the null hypothesis. the default position.

awaiting your reply, but think it through this time.

life is just biological processes, consciousness is awareness and is emergent from the brain. they could be named hebrew national beef franks but they already have names: namely consciousness/awareness and life.

so you'd rather use a word like 'spirit' because it sounds metaphysical or something?

there would be a lot less ppl making themselves look delusional if they stop trying to mystify ordinary , everyday shit.

not saying thats what youre doing, but there are ppl who do this on purpose.

damn....no spoiler alert or anything...................................................

self awareness emerges from the brain. nothing else is necessary. as you say, our awareness stops when the brain stops.

but what is the spirit?

every time i ask this question, no one can define the spirit as anything they know, or can show to actually exist, and most of the time it is simply defined via equivocation as things known to emerge from the brain.

yet ppl are always talking about spirits.

if it aint just a feel good buzzword, what the hell is it?

how do you know its there if you don't even know what IT is?

you would obviously be able to define it, it's function, and parameters,

it if you knew what it was, yet you contend 'it's there, without being able to define what it is?

arguments like this are what prompted this question in the first place.

but we are no closer to a definitive answer than we were before asking the question.

@ Facadeon:

What essence? havent you simply traded one ambiguity for another?

anything that exists, exists not because of our beliefs but in spite of them.

would you mind providing examples? otherwise you're commiting a logical fallacy: the bald assertion

right chuck. scientific theory is an explanation of natural phenomena. it is not a hypothesis which is an educated guess.

theory is the most important thing in science. theory never, ever becomes law. theory explains law.

Can you give an example of an atheist misuse of the word 'fact?'

Make it plain.

'If God cannot do so then he is not omnipotent, something which conflicts with the notion of a deism.'

So jehovah is a deistic god? i was under the impression that he is a personal theistic god of the anthropomorphic variety.

I am not a theist, or a deist. I have no belief in a god, mainly due to lack of evidence but all the logical inconsistencies born out of the things attributed to the abrahamic god, only make god look even less likely to actually exist. It is the contention of christians that god cannot violate free will. any and all other logical inconsistencies only add to the problem.

if you dont understand why omnibenevolence and indifference are incompatible, youre short because i wont waste any time explaining something so blatantly obvious.

'This is written in a manner which leads me to believe that you do not believe in the existence of free will.'

so it never occurred to you that i don't believe in any god?

'free will' in the theological sense is an excuse. that's not to say that ppl cant do whatever the hell they want to do. but our ability to make decisions doesn't have anything to do with a 'god allowing us' to do so, or 'not wanting us to be robots.'

'Why couldn't God violate an individual's free will to make a point?'

because that is logically inconsistent with the assertion that god cannot (or does not) violate free will.

if god could violate Pharaoh's free will to give himself an excuse to kill all Egypt's first born, he could violate the 'free will' of all child molesters to make sure no child was ever again molested. and in doing so, he would be beginning to solve 'the problem of evil'.

'the problem of evil' is only a problem because theists contended that god is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. these qualities are directly contradicted by the persistence of 'evil'. one cannot be all loving, all powerful and indifferent to the suffering of untold millions of children.

the fact that i need to explain all this, puts a particularly humorous spin on your totally unnecessary snipe, citing 'uneducated corruptors'. but thanks for asking.

no. of course not. free will is just an excuse for a nonexistent god's inability to intervene, where any existent, moral god would choose to do so.

ppl claim that god refuses to intervene, because that would violate free will.

but if no god exists, no god would intervene anyway, which completely solves the problem.

the same ppl who claim that 'divine intervention would violate free will', also claim that 'God answers prayers'. This directly contradicts the claim that god must preserve free will.

If God hardened Pharaoh's heart, then he violated free will and punished the children of Egypt for his own gratification.

the fallacy of free will and the problem of evil, both demonstrate the logical inconsistency of the Christian god.

the entire bible was written by man. yet you seeks to arbitrarily define some laws as that of man and others of a god. don't you have any intellectual honesty? or does that result in hellfire?

ask a theist for evidence of god and you'll get fallacy or philosophy, but one thing you certainly will not get is logical justification for god belief. i guarantee it.

'The reason why there was those laws is because those are for the Jews to follow.'

So because they were Jews, God required them not to wear poly/cotton blends?

You didn't even attempt to reason out a logical answer to the question. your answer gives no reason for god wanting them not to wear poly/cotton blends. the fact that they were jewish is not a reason, its an excuse. one that doesn't hold a teaspoon of water.

Don't you think you should at least clarify the question?

'Can you have a scientific purpose for believing in God?'

I don't even know what you're asking.

But God does appear to be 100% made up.

'If I acknowledge that the god I worship is malevolent, I must acknowledge my own iniquity."

If a person feels he gets his sense of morality from his religion, he cannot acknowledge the malevolence of his own god without shooting himself in the foot.

I don't even think most satanists believe in a malevolent god. they just believe in liberation from the hypocrisy of the aforementioned paradigm.

'You don't see very many theists who believe in a malevolent God. Why is that?'

Actually lots of theists believe in a malevolent god. God is one great big appeal to emotion. He loves you, he will guide, and protect you, if you bend to his will. If you don't he'll torture you repeatedly forever. If you follow his rules and someone tries to impede or oppose you, they will see his malevolence.

In other words, gimme your milk money or my God will beat you up at recess.

You are free to choose, but if you don't choose the choice God has chosen for you, your store will be destroyed by arson. This is what I like to call 'Divine Extortion'.

I don't believe In Kali or Jesus because they're equally ridiculous. There is neither objective evidence, nor logic to support their existence.

If theists cant get a warm fuzzy from their faith, they'd see no point in constantly lying to themselves.

Logic takes those lies and exposes em. Thats why theists hate it, and why they compartmentalize so much.

If an atheist asks a theist for evidence of a God, he gets no evidence. What he generally gets is philosophy. Where the problem lies is that theists are unwilling to admit their philosophy is just philosophy. They insert it where it does not belong, where it has no validity, and this is why they're looked upon as being intellectually dishonest adults, with childlike minds, who simply refuse to accept the reality of human mortality..

they never even use the word philosophy when they're asked for evidence, they simply spew it out as if saying 'the evidence is all around you' actually proves what they posit. "i know in my heart there is a god' proves absolutely nothing because no one knows anything in his heart (which is simply a pump to circulate blood throughout one's body.) what they're really saying is that they find the idea of a personal god, emotionally appealing. well we as atheists already know that. but we have long since accepted that reality wont kneel before us to placate us in our self-centered fantasies. it doesn't care about our opinions or our feelings.

Yes, to hell with separation of church and state. We need one nation under desert goat herders, cause Da Big Bad God comin' to get us. We have the minds of small children, so we actually believe such utter nonsense.

Why shouldn't we have a president who believes he can become a god? Superstitious nonsense is superstitious nonsense. You can call it Mormonism, Christianity, Islam or Hinduism. It's still fairytale bull crap.

all ppl of a particular church do not have the same idea of god. all ppl of a denomination dont have the same idea of god. nor do all ppl of a city or culture or era. what a dictionary describes as 'god in a monotheistic sense' is perfectly irrelevant. Obviously I am referring to opinions, not standardized definitions. you shouldve gotten that from "ask 20 different ppl and you get twenty different answers'. we are not machines, we are human beings, with different views , different philosophies and different concepts of our personal gods. why do i even have to say this? God as the hero of western revenge fantasy is just one of god's many guises. you shouldnt get the idea that god is one thing specifically defined because ancient and contemporary world culture, myth and superstition shows that god/ gods are not, and all of this goes without saying. yea it does get lonely around here.

What is God? A super-thingie of nebulous ambiguity? A one size fits all security blanket for the ignorant and superstitious? Ask 20 ppl what God is and you get twenty different answers. Ask where god is and you get the same. God is and does whatever anyone says, whatever anyone chooses to believe. God is the hero of western revenge fantasy. An elaborate contradiction guilded in emotional appeals. God's truth is not to be found beyond death. That would require a functioning brain. God is just a sugarcube.