CreateDebate / AlexG's Waterfall en-us http://createdebate.com/ CreateDebate / AlexG's Waterfall With The Existence Of An Omniscient God, Do We Really have Free-Will??? http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/With_The_Existence_Of_An_Omniscient_God_Do_We_Really_have_Free_Will#arg18159 You completely misunderstood my post... By posting the father/cookie, and the roof examples I was showing how using those examples as an argument for God's omniscience doesn't work. It doesn't work because the father was incorrect about the boys choice, and I was incorrect about which door you would have taken. God on the other hand is never wrong, but the father, and I clearly were, so those types of arguments can never be used to defend an omniscient bieng.

God knows all possible conclusions but it's up to me to make the ultimate choice??? Yes, but God already knows ahead of time what my ultimate choice will be.

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Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:33:45 -0500 http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/With_The_Existence_Of_An_Omniscient_God_Do_We_Really_have_Free_Will#arg18159 http://www.createdebate.com/uploads/profile/2179.JPG AlexG http://www.createdebate.com/user/viewprofile/AlexG
With The Existence Of An Omniscient God, Do We Really have Free-Will??? http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/With_The_Existence_Of_An_Omniscient_God_Do_We_Really_have_Free_Will#arg18135 I Never said that God made me do anything. In my opinion if God really exists, and he is omniscient, he is only letting us think that we have free will. When in reality we can't have freewill to choose what we will do because before we were even born, God knew every decision we would ever make in our lives. Every thing we do in our lives, we were pre-destined to do that. If you arein a place where there are 5 different doors to choose from, whichever door it is that you choose, you were destined to choose that one, so you had absolutely no free-will in choosing that door

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Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:00:41 -0500 http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/With_The_Existence_Of_An_Omniscient_God_Do_We_Really_have_Free_Will#arg18135 http://www.createdebate.com/uploads/profile/2179.JPG AlexG http://www.createdebate.com/user/viewprofile/AlexG
With The Existence Of An Omniscient God, Do We Really have Free-Will??? http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/With_The_Existence_Of_An_Omniscient_God_Do_We_Really_have_Free_Will#arg18131 God can see everything, we can only see what is in front of us, and to the sides... If we were in a building we can only see what is in front of us, God on the other hand is on the roof looking down, he can see absolutely everything... right??? Yes

Let's say you were in a room, you can only see what is in front of you, and to the sides. I am on the roof looking down, I can see absolutely everything in that room. Of all the possible doors in that room that you can take, I know ahead of time which one you will take because I can see all of the doors, and I can see which one you are walking towards, but what if you made a sudden turn that I was not expecting???. That is one flaw in that sort of argument. Yesterday I posted a quote from a theist website. The quote was an example of a father leaving a cookie on a table knowing that his son would take it. Now what if his son was sick, and not hungry, and decided not to take it??? Or what if his son didn't see the cookie, and therefore didn't take it like the father had imagined??? That would mean the father was wrong. Now because I didn't expect you to take that turn, and because the son didn't take the cookie, examples such as those can never work when applied to an omniscient bieng who is "never wrong" and is "always right".

If God only knows the possible outcomes, then he will be wrong on more than one occasion. That is not what christian doctrine states however. Christian doctrine states explicitly that God is all knowing, and is never wrong. If this omniscient bieng only knows all the possible conclusions, then he doesn't know which one you will make until you make it, which goes against omniscience. An omniscient bieng knows absolutely everything, and is never wrong. So if God knows that I will be picking my nose at 3:04, on a thursday, 40 years from now, then I have absolutely no choice but to pick my nose at 3:04, on a thursday, 40 years from now. Therefore I have no free-will

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Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:46:07 -0500 http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/With_The_Existence_Of_An_Omniscient_God_Do_We_Really_have_Free_Will#arg18131 http://www.createdebate.com/uploads/profile/2179.JPG AlexG http://www.createdebate.com/user/viewprofile/AlexG