A Question For Atheists.
Assuming that aliens exist, and that they are Christian, would you reevaluate your stance on Christianity were we to make with them contact and learn of their religiosity?
Yes
Side Score: 31
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No
Side Score: 39
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Yes, I would re-evaluate my position. But only after I had looked into their belief system. It is reasonable to assume that, since we were capable of conceiving religion, deities and whatnot here on Earth (I'd argue as a political tool), then it is perfectly conceivable to imagine that an alien race could do the same, without any outside influence. Side: Yes
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Why is that? Surely it could only be beneficial to the religious, specifically those who share the faith, or roots of said faith, with some party here, on Earth. Of course, other religious parties would be massively discredited (unless the new race's religion is without a deity) in such an event, although anything Abrahamic would benefit from having any other Abrahamic religion discovered elsewhere, just to a lesser extent. Side: No
See, now this would be a coincidence worth consideration. The pitfalls to watch for would be vague connections paraded as historical similarities defying alternative answers... like if the similarities were as generic as "a deity dying for sins" or their equivalent of what sin would be, which could easily be attributed to a combination of guilt and a desire to not one's self pay for this guilt. But should the characters, circumstances and teachings align more than 50% or so in areas which could not be attributed to natural mortal desire for an afterlife I'm game. ... Now I have a question for theists. Should the alien version of god match a different human god than their own, how many would abandon their now obviously false religion? This would be a more telling question. Any bets on who is more stubborn, the theist or the atheist? I smell alien blood and human destruction should their god not happen to be Christian. Side: Yes
Look at that: right after saying that I never agree with you, and I'm supporting you. . Any bets on who is more stubborn, the theist or the atheist? The theist is far more stubborn. He believes himself to have a relationship with his deity, and therefore no amount of contrary evidence will persuade him to "join the Dark Side". Side: Yes
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Absolutely I would re-evaluate my position on God. Granted, a few things would have to line up. There would have to be enough doctrinal similarity to make a reasonable claim that the alien religion was indeed a parallel Christianity (i.e., a fallen state, a triune diety, same set of basic commandments, etc.) But granted all that, how could I not at least think very seriously about the possibility that the Christian worldview was indeed correct? Now, if we contacted multiple independent alien civilizations that all had a parallel Christianity, things would really get interesting. Side: Yes
Assuming that aliens exist, Yes... and that they are Christian, No... they don't have Jesus, they don't have human saints, they wouldn't follow a book that is based purely on Earth only, (The Bible), and they won't surrender their dignity to us just because we were made in God's image and we are God's favorites. would you reevaluate your stance on Christianity were we to make with them contact and learn of their religiosity? Well, in this completely ludicrous, impossible circumstance, yes I would as it would show some kind of proof... But such a thing occurring would be an insult to all existence and logic. Because... Christian Aliens... Seriously? Christianity is just a human occult to them... Side: Yes
No... they don't have Jesus, they don't have human saints, they wouldn't follow a book that is based purely on Earth only, (The Bible), and they won't surrender their dignity to us just because we were made in God's image and we are God's favorites. ' Well, in this completely ludicrous, impossible circumstance, yes I would as it would show some kind of proof... But such a thing occurring would be an insult to all existence and logic. Because... Christian Aliens... Seriously? I didn't say that I believe that, if aliens exist, they are followers of any earthly religions. However, for the purpose of debate, you were to assume that there are. In assuming that Christian aliens are in existence somewhere in the universe, what makes you think that anything in the first bolded paragraph means anything? It is an irrational argument in that, if aliens were Christian, then they would most likely have their own Christian traditions. What makes you think that we are "God's favorites", assuming a god exists? Also, I object greatly to your penultimate line. If it were to occur, then by the very nature of it occurring, it would not be an insult to "all existence and logic". Side: No
what makes you think that anything in the first bolded paragraph means anything? It is an irrational argument in that, if aliens were Christian, then they would most likely have their own Christian traditions. It is a rational argument. I am just simply saying that it is highly unlikely, and it seems silly to assume this would ever happen. What makes you think that we are "God's favorites", assuming a god exists? I already answered that. Jesus is a person of considerable significance, he is supposed to be the Messiah. The bible is based solely on Earth. We are made in his image. He makes no mention of other life forms. Saints and patron saints that represent things are all humans. Everything is human with this religion (human occult). Also, I object greatly to your penultimate line. If it were to occur, then by the very nature of it occurring, it would not be an insult to "all existence and logic". Yes it would be an insult, because it would show how low and dull the universe can be. Analyze this religion and you will realize how unworthy it is to define existence, reality and the human mind and imagination. Side: Yes
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Well first of all, I try and reevaluate my stance on anything after I learn of new evidence, one should always keep an open mind. Doesn't mean I manage, but I try. But, although it was definitely not a game changer for Christianity, it would be a serious victory (however unlikely). That a society so far removed from our culture can share a single similarity, and on a belief that has so much controversy over its validity, would be a big example of proof for Christianity. However, I would not see it as conclusive, absolute proof is still required. I doubt I would change my mind, but it would definitely raise doubts. Side: Yes
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The only possible explanation for this travesty happening in the first place would either be (wait for it) Earth wasn't the first planet God visited (Gasp! We are not the most special beings in existence!), or if the Ancient Astronaut theory is correct. Either way, If I was an athiest, this would change my mind about christianity. Side: Yes
The only possible explanation for this travesty happening in the first place would either be (wait for it) Earth wasn't the first planet God visited I don't see how the existence of Christian aliens would definitively indicate that God "visited" them first. Could've seen them after us. Side: No
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How can they be Christians? There are few things that distinguish Christianity from...say Islam or Judaism. These are their stories and prophets. ALL of the stories on the bible, ALL of the prophets and disciples of Christianity, ALL of the people with whom god supposedly had contact were on EARTH. In addition to this, Jesus lived on EARTH. If Christianity existed on other planets, it would, by definition, have to have stories and prophets different from those in our bible. This would leave their "Christianity" with no semblance of our "Christianity." They would be two entirely different religions. - So when you ask if Christianity can exist on other planets, it can't. The entire religion is centered around earth and humans (THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING, CHRISTIANS). It is a man-made religion. Side: No
You are assuming that, if aliens who worship the Christian God exist, the aliens who worship the Christian God are completely without any form of cultural exchange granted them by whatever may pose as their Bible. Also, you assume that those who are mentioned in the Bible are human and that Jesus mayn't have lived on other planets as well. Now, the thing I hated about creating this debate is the anticipation and expectation I felt at being harangued on the topic. I agree that the entire concept is ludicrous, but the purpose of this debate - the existence of which requires suspension of disbelief and ludicrous assumptions - is not to decide its realism but to argue on the possible outcome were the concepts described therein come to be shown to be factual. The entire religion is centered around earth and humans (THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING, CHRISTIANS). I believe that I am correct in viewing this as being a de facto recognition of surety on your part of the existence of non-human sentient extraterrestrial lifeforms, and that this is evidence against religion despite being of no more foundation (possibly less) than religion itself. This is a correct summation, is it not? Side: Yes
You are assuming that Oh, come on, Liber. You create a debate like this and then rail at me about what is and isn't a plausible axiom! the aliens who worship the Christian God are completely without any form of cultural exchange granted them by whatever may pose as their Bible. No. What I clearly stated (it was clear in my head at least) was that this "Christianity" would be defined by its regional (on that planet) stories and characterized by their own prophets. This would leave it virtually unrecognizable from our Christianity. you assume that those who are mentioned in the Bible are human Well, the bible tells us they are human. And the Christian god would never lie or deceive us... and that Jesus mayn't have lived on other planets as well. This I will concede. When I was typing that, I justified my statement with the following convoluted logic: If there is life on our planet, there is likely life on a very large number of other planets. Thus, for Jesus to have spent the time he did on our planet on ALL planets would be greater than the age of the universe. Now the obvious rebuttal is that Jesus, if omnipotent, is not bound by the laws of physics and can be on all those planets concurrently, but it was worth a shot. ;) I believe that I am correct in viewing this as being a de facto recognition of surety on your part of the existence of non-human sentient extraterrestrial lifeforms, and that this is evidence against religion despite being of no more foundation (possibly less) than religion itself. After reading this several times, I have come to the conclusion that you need to dumb down the language and word choice to something I am intelligent enough to understand. I think you may mean that saying something is man-made because something is geo/human-centric is a fallacy? Side: No
Okay -- what's interesting to me is that I think you just accidentally disemboweled the whole topic. Try this word game: You are assuming that, if Hindus who worship the "Christian" God exist, the Hindus who worship the "Christian" God are completely without any form of cultural exchange granted them by whatever may pose as their Bible. Also, you assume that . . . Jesus mayn't have lived in other countries as well. Would this line of logic not be every bit as valid in arguing that Krishna is Jesus and the Bhagavad-Gita is a valid alternative "Bible," or that Buddha is Jesus and the teachings of the Buddha are a valid alternative "Bible"? Because now it seems like the argument has been boiled down to "assuming all gods are the same God, if we discovered God-fearing aliens, would you be persuaded to believe in a god?" Hmmm . . . let's refine the hypothetical a bit. Let's assume that the alien holy book has a whole lot of very definite parallels to the Bible. Let's assume it's monotheistic; it has a creation-and-fall story like Genesis; it's got a bad-tempered god who spends a lot of early alien history doing stuff like ordering his followers about from behind a flaming shrubbery and raining small alien amphibians down on folks he doesn't like; it's got a redeemer-child-of-the-god who sacrifices him/her/it self for the redemption of alien-kind and then rises from the dead; it's got an apocalypse story where believers are rewarded and nonbelievers are cast into a fiery torment. Would that convince me to convert to Christianity? Nope. It would suggest that this alien civilization might have once had a lot of interesting cultural parallels with ancient Mesopotamia and/or middle-ages Europe that led to the development and spread of a similar mythology. It might suggest that certain broadly-defined mental strategies for assigning "meaning" to experiences through myth-making are universal and necessary to the evolution of sentience, or at least to some "stage" in the evolution of sentience. It would certainly suggest that these hypothetical aliens are surprisingly un-alien in their thinking and their way of life if they conceptualize the universe in a way that would enable them to develop a religious mythology that parallels one from Earth. But no, it wouldn't persuade me to convert. (And in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not an atheist. I just thought the discussion was interesting.) Side: No
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But there is a big difference in a religion spreading from one country to another (where communication lines do exist), and from one isolated planet to another isolated planet. I agree. But, being the stubborn person I am, it would still not convince me. If we're assuming that their Christianity is the same as ours, then they would still have exactly the same problems with their religion as we do. They would still have to prove to me that God exists and Christ is the son. Wouldn't matter to me if two planets believed it, or every planet believed it. My requirement of proof would not change. Side: No
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"assuming aliens exist, and they were christian" I would find that quite odd, considering christianity revolves around humanity and earth. I believe that you need to clarify what this really means a little bit more before we can properly debate this fully. would it be in english? because i doubt that extraterrestrials would be able to understand it if so, although they could figure out how to translate the language. would it be the same stories? because if so it would be stories about another species on another planet, and seem to be all about us. would it be thier version of the bible, where everything happens on thier planet instead? that would raise new questions about the point of god fabricating these sequence of events over and over on every planet where hypothetically exists christianity. are you talking about a separate religion thats talking about the same god, but then again that would be no different to all the different religions on this planet, and at that point you still have the possibility that the aliens simply created religion themselves like us. Or would it be that their relgion would be highly similiar to ours, because I would still require evidence since a species more highly intelligent then us (for the only way we could know of thier existence would be of them finding us) and could for some reason trying to convince us of it by acting as though they believe it themselves. it doesn't matter WHO claims it, I still need evidence, who you are has very little to do with it. Side: No
Their arguments would still be invalid with regards to the assertion that there is a god. - No proof. Also, the problem with the idea of christian aliens is that they would have also needed to speek the languages of earth in order to be "christian" since this is an Earth word. This would necessitate that they either learned about Earth and emulate the Fraction of Earth-humans that are christians in their belief, or their histories were exactly like ours in every respect such that there is no free will and our linguistic form is a predetermined construct - pretty unlikely that this is the case given the multitude of languages and how they observably change over time (memic evolution). They would also need to have lived on a planet that had all the same evolutionary stages and every event on that planet would need to be exactly like ours has been because small changes in past events could mean that mammals dont come into being, or that fish dont develop lobe fins, etc... If any significant event were different the aliens would not have the same stories unless all the words for fish, or wood, or prayer, or cross, etc... were translated but then again we get back to the problem of calling them "christians" if their language is different to the degree that their chirst figure was called something else. They could be called Kobalastians and it would not be justified to call them christians even if they had a monotheistic account of a son of god that died on what they call a cross, etc... The problem with the question is that you ignore the hisoricity of religion in the context of all history. My sense is that this is one of the reasons why religion remains, is that people ignore the context in which religious constructs emerge. That they are entirely by the coincidence of the context of culture and events in a given region at a given time. If there were a planet with "aliens" they would necessarily be humans since all events in their evolution would be exactly the same. If everything were the same i would not reevaluate my position on the validity of christianity, i would take the existence of such a thing as confirmation of multiple universes rather than the confirmation of christianity as a valid construct. Side: No
Why can't they be a Buddhist? Or an Hindu? Or a Muslim? Hindu Scriptures have lot of proof showing Giant Beings flying from out of space..Space travel and earth being round and stars and planets have been an integral part of hinduism for thousands of years. (This is purely hypothetical because personally I believe they wouldn't be familar with notion of religion there would be some other different form of 'Grouping' base on physical, biological characteristics and/or abilities..) Side: No
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