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A question for Christians
Would you say it is possible to be real Christian without paying regard to bible stories? Suppose you think actions speak louder than words concerning what it means to be Christian, and are following the example of Christianity from that perspective?
This was inspired by a conversation with Jc41218 in this debate
generally most of the scriptures of all religions are the same. be nice. don't fight. be peaceful. violence is not the way of life. help others honesty is the best policy. etc.
if you follow the right way of life, you'll be following pretty much all of the religions.
agreed though that there will be some parts which will be different for each religion. but they usually sum up the same.
so as long as you be a good human, helping others, working for the next generation by saving fuel so they have enough to ride cars etc. you'll pretty much be following that what the Bible, Bhagwat Gita, Quran, Buddha's teachings etc.
That's very well said. I think the brighter notion of life, the optimistic outlook. Instead of being cynical is better off to be this. If life has moved in a broader aspect. Life must be looked upon with the same perspective.
You say, without paying regard to the bible stories. What stories? If you want to remain a Christian, what part of christianity do you still want to stick to? Which are the parts you think must be disposed?
If you choose to ignore certain aspects, adopt the others and stay christian, I think you would just be repeating history.
You believe Earth is not flat. Aren't you a Christian? Middle ages, you would be in a cell. But now, you are.
So yup! You choose what you want to be. We all do in a way.
You say, without paying regard to the bible stories. What stories? If you want to remain a Christian, what part of christianity do you still want to stick to? Which are the parts you think must be disposed?
Those are big questions. I am flattered that you are interested in my opinion but I would rather delve into that in a seperate discussion. :)
If you choose to ignore certain aspects, adopt the others and stay christian, I think you would just be repeating history.
It's nice to know at least some people realize this. I think your familiarity with Hinduism helps.
In olden times, before the Bible was written, yes. If you observed Christ and learned from him and lived as he did, you were a Christian, then the writings came and now everyone has to be apart of this jaded version of Christianity.
If you ask me, I don't think modern Christianity even istrue Christianity. The hate that they preach, is supported in the Bible, but if it's really a religion of peace, and Jesus really is the messiah why would he instruct his followers to do something like that?
Bam you hit it right on the head because the Bible was written by men of the inspiration of God Himself and like they say B.I.B.L.E (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth).
Bam you hit it right on the head because the Bible was written by men of the inspiration of God Himself
No, I hit it on the head because the Bible is necessary for being a Christian, there is no reason to believe that the Bible was inspired by the Christian god.
Up until the Bible was constructed and set as the Holy Book of Christianity. The original remains the same, all that changes is how we translate it. Leaving sections out of it makes your version less accurate by definition.
I understand that, they transferred the stories verbally. When they constructed the Bible, they did it with Christianity in mind, and the Bible was accepted as canon, making it a requirement for Christianity as it is the source of all Christ's teachings.
As much as I disagree with Stryker on a lot of stuff, we agree on this issue. The canonized gospels were canonized because they were written closest to the time of Jesus's life and death.
I understand. Yours and stryker's opinions are majority views which make it all the more challenging to defend the opposite position, but I am enjoying the challenge.
This doesn't mean that every christian sect has compiled the specific scriptures you refer into a book they consider holy. I know professed christians who speak of bible worship as a form of idolatry and speak of how "the letter killeth".
How can you be sure they are unaltered stories? Besides that, aren't the actions of Jesus what inspired christianity even moreso than the varying stories told about his actions?
It doesn't matter if they are altered, they were accepted as true.
But not necessarily by all who follow christ's example
No, the number of people who saw Jesus are far fewer than those who heard of him.
Strong point. I still hold that people can be christian by living by the example jesus set, and they need not hear, read or believe any church sanctioned, or popular rumour about him that may be found in a particular version of bible.
Suppose a guy named frank walks around for a few years preaching and engaging in dialogs that inspire people to emulate him. Then his behaviors are turned in to legend and heavily modified. Records (of varying accuracy) are made concerning his activities, and a whole bunch of people consider them perfectly accurate when they aren't. During this same period, those who most closely emulated frank went about their business emulating the example set by frank. They set an example for their children and a tradition that didn't rely on the incredible stories of legend went on. Is it not at least possible that those who don't consider the legends to be entirely accurate are more frankian than those whose only familiarity with frankianity is through storytelling and legend?
From your source: " It is also used as a label to identify people who associate with the cultural aspects of Christianity, irrespective of personal religious beliefs or practices."
Whoever first put the Bible together with the intent to fit a narrative that a large group of people already accepted. The Bible contains the teachings of Jesus.
You are questioning whether the Harry Potter books corrupt the story of Harry Potter, the Bible contains the teachings of Jesus that Christians have accepted, they are not competing teachings of Jesus because the teachings of Jesus in the Bible are the ones that Christianity is based on.
They verbally transferred the stories found in the Bible, but when the Bible was accepted as canon, those became the official teachings of Jesus.
Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus found in the Bible which was created to correspond to the general beliefs of Christians before the Bible was constructed by collecting the stories they verbally transferred into one tome, excluding any that didn't support the desired narrative.
No one has ever presented me a sound reason to believe the Christian god exists, and I haven't been able to find any online. Maybe you have a good reason, would you be willing to tell me what you believe about the Christian god, and why you believe it?
Sure! This is how I know God exist and how I can tell when I am in His presences from my testimony.
Ever since I was little my brothers and I were raised in Church. Our grandparents made it a requirement to be in the House of the Lord every Sunday. They explained to me what being in the presence of the Lord felted like how it would be very peaceful and calm when that moment would happen. Being saved at the age of nine I've didn't really know Jesus at the time and what to look forward to when I ask Him into my life. My parents didn't really care about their wisdom but in the end they did. My parents weren't really there for me and wanted me to be what they wanted in their own eyes. God gave my a talent at a very young age to have the ability to play seven different instruments. While in my four years in High School my parent didn't come to not even one of my performances and that really hurt me a lot because they didn't have nothing to do plus they were always off from work on my performance days. It really hurt me to see everyone's parents out there cheering for them and not mine. To this very day it still hurts. So one summer out of no where my parents took my brothers and I out of town to a hotel. Later that night I got up and unlocked the door and sneaked right out of the house. I continued walking down the dark road laughing and crying I was loosing my mind. I guess those many years holding in all the pain and hurt from not really having a great childhood was driving my crazy until it got to the point where I couldn't hold it in any longer and it all EXPLODED! Suddenly this woman drove by me them back up and asked me "Do you need a ride honey?" I was almost insane but had a little but of sense left. Since I saw a baby in the back sit I felt it would be okay to get in so I did. Just before she could pull off She reached in the back seat and put on a Grey glove and looked at me with this demonic look that gives my chills when I think about it. SO then she reached I guess to find the other Grey glove I jumped out of the car and ran down the road as fast as I can I didn't know where I was running to I was just running. I ran to this gas station and there was a pay phone and lucky I had change in my pocket to make a call. Out of all the numbers I knew I couldn't think of any of them but there was ONE number that stood out of them all and guess who number that was Stryker?
Your personal experience can be a good reason for you to believe, but it isn't a good reason for anyone else to believe. Do you have any reason other than personal experience to believe in the existence of the Christian god?
I have those people in real life to show that. It's hard to discuss it over the web in my opinion. It's better to show the person the Love of Christ in person.
That is all personal experience, I wouldn't even trust my own. I'm looking for demonstrable evidence of his existence, something that isn't subjective.
When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her
I am supposing that the Christian tradition does not absolutely rely on literary or verbal expression, and it can be observed and emulated by those who are illiterate or unable to appreciate the storytelling that supposedly defines it.
I assumed you would get it, I was wrong. Oh well. If you did get it, you wouldn't think I dismissed your question but you would see that I answered it by an analogous question with an obvious answer.
kinda like the ol "Does a bear shit in the woods?" but with a parallel to your question that whizzed by you.
I disagree that you presented an analogous question, you have also failed to answer my yes/no question again. If you just answer questions we could get somewhere, until you do I don't have the framework to even understand what you are talking about.
You are asking if someone doesn't play all forms of pool can you call them a pool player. I'm asking you to tell me what qualifies as a pool player under your definition.
OK I will break it down for you. Just as it's not necessary for a pool player to play every game there is in pool to still rightly be considered a pool player, a person can be a christian without adopting every single belief associated with christianity.
a person can be a christian without adopting every single belief associated with christianity.
I'm have yet to make an assertion of any kind, I'm only asking if under your definition of Christianity, does a Christian have to do at least one of the following:
Accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savoir.
Ask forgiveness for their sins.
If you can't understand it now. I am done
Please, if you can't answer a yes or no question you should be done.
You can't be a Christian and not believe in the bible. It'll be a different religion. If not for the bible or someone speaking the words of the bible, how would one even know how to be a Christian?
Do you think it's impossible that some Christians believe Jesus was more of less biblically misrepresented?
But then how could you think Jesus was any different from what he was in the bible if the bible is the only place his works were recorded in. I'm assuming its the only place you can find Jesus' life story. If one does think he was different, one would need some kind of other reference book to base one's theories on.
Maybe each and every persons religion is somewhat unique
You've got somewhat of a point, but for two peoples' religions to be the same there has to be some connection. That's where we get all the sects in Christianity. If it strays too much from the original idea, its a different religion. All of the sects in Christianity deem the bible to generally be true, just different interpretations.
I suppose they could be shown by example and it wouldn't require parroting verses from any bible
Shown? One would not be a part of a religion just because their role model has good values that may have came from that religion and I'm certainly sure they wouldn't join because they saw strange rituals pertaining to their role model's religion that they know nothing about, that is, unless they're truly mindless sheeple. Having good values and being a good role model has nothing to do with a religion.
But then how could you think Jesus was any different from what he was in the bible if the bible is the only place his works were recorded in. I'm assuming its the only place you can find Jesus' life story. If one does think he was different, one would need some kind of other reference book to base one's theories on.
Those who don't understand the way legends form through story telling might find that a convincing argument.
You've got somewhat of a point, but for two peoples' religions to be the same there has to be some connection.
How about they both call themselves Christian? Who is the authority to say this would be inappropriate? Are there not christians "in name only" ?
If it strays too much from the original idea, its a different religion. All of the sects in Christianity deem the bible to generally be true, just different interpretations.
Not true. I know Christians who think the Bible is an idol, and that everything Christ has to teach can be learned by praying to him.
Shown? One would not be a part of a religion just because their role model has good values that may have came from that religion
If you are one that believes a persons religion is identified more by professed belief than actions, I can see how you would believe this
I'm certainly sure they wouldn't join because they saw strange rituals pertaining to their role model's religion that they know nothing about, that is, unless they're truly mindless sheeple.
The Christians I know regard their daily habits as religious rituals.
Having good values and being a good role model has nothing to do with a religion.
I don't think I will take your word on that, since I have seen otherwise.
Wrong. It is not intolerant for me to stand up to hypocrite abusers. I love when bullies play the victim. Intolerant? Take a look at the whiney bitch ass conservative Christians and get back to me. Or don't. I really couldn't give a fuck. Offended you are, a fuck I don't give, now run along and tell your priest about the big mean free thinking lady.
Fuck tolerance right? Tolerating too much BS is what got us in the jam we're in methinks. Me also thinks the "free thinking" label suits you better than some of the others you've tried on :)
I dunno if I could say Christians are all hypocrites. I mean of course not. But, it takes spirit to see through the opaque that something is wrong. To rebel against the majority. I'm sure when you say you hate Christians, you don't throw stones at all of them.
This is like asking if you can be a police officer without knowing the laws. Inspired scripture is the foundation of our faith and if you reject it, you have nothing.
You might be surprised by how many police officers don't know the laws. I often see videos on YouTube of police officers breaking the law, as if they don't know them. Maybe they don't maybe they just don't care.
Although I agree with you from personal experience, they should still know them or not be on the force. If they don't know the laws, they shouldn't be an officer. (also, often they do know the laws, they just brake them because they assume you don't )
Is it really reasonable to expect a police officer to know all the laws? Even lawyers don't understand how it all works; most of a lawyers job is paintstaking research into the laws and precedents relevant to the case at hand; they aren't working from memory. Law in the US has become so convoluted...
It is reasonable to expect a police officer to know the laws they are expected to enforce, but it's not reasonable to expect them to understand the nuances of every single legal precedent that has been established regarding that law. Those that blatantly disregard the law- you're right, they have no business being on the force. But in many cases where officers did not understand the law, it was mainly due to how complicated it was; the amount of actual power officers are supposed to have is constantly shifting with every single case. Police officers don't go to law school...
The notion that actions speak.louder than words is already present in the Bible. All of the acts dome by Jesus and his disciples were supposed to emulate it. Outside of his miracles,Jesus ttalked to the Samaritan woman and stopped an adulteress from being stoned. His disciples attracted followers completely from their compassion and charity.
