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Abortion
Do you profess to know of a certainty the point at which a human begins to exist. In truth, you nor anyone else really knows. You have little more than opinion based on arguments of others. Those arguments based on arbitrary judgements:
Moment of conception - moment of birth - when the unborn can feel pain - 20 weeks-No make that 22 weeks. Acknowledging this unknowing, when is it OK to kill an unborn ?
Exactly. We could say life begins as soon as the couple think about sex. I think about sex quite often... I guess that would make me an unborn baby killer when I stop thinking about sex.
The point life begins is a human construct. We decide it based on the implications to the rights of the mother and feotus as well as what we know about the physiology on the embryo at each stage.
"Ok" is probably a bit too vague - ok morally, ok legally, or ?
I think it should be legal in basically every case.
And morally "ok" in the same instances as when killing others would be ok, namely mercy killing (painfull, terminal malady) and self-defense (very broad range).
A universal definition not only does not exist, I'm not sure it can. The only way I could see it working is if the soul can be demonstrated to exist and enter the fetus at a specific point. But we have never demonstrated that, so our next best bet is when it has achieved viability. That is, if you were to remove it from the womb, it would continue all the normal functions associated with a baby. This, to add to the confusion, can happen at different times in different pregnancies, and that's not even counting babies with certain conditions that necessitate artificial support even after birth.
So when is it okay? To me it is normally when viability can be presumed. But ultimately, that's up to the parents, especially the mother, to decide for themselves.
From a Gallup poll. The actual number was 19% and I rounded to 20%. Although to be fair Atheists support abortion more then religious members. Although it still would be inaccurate to call 1 in 5 Atheists "very very few".
Is growth the only factor of what constitutes life? The universe is growing, mountains grow, plants, fungi, volcanic islands, etc., etc. Is growth the only factor to consider regarding killing that life? e.g. if the Nazi army is growing would it be immoral to kill it? or Frostbite?
Is growth the only factor of what constitutes life?
No, when I say growth I mean more along the terms of mitosis. Just cells dividing to grow into something new. If the being absorbs nutrients, possesses DNA, etc. Just characteristics of living organisms.
The universe is growing, mountains grow, plants, fungi, volcanic islands, etc., etc.
For the sake of the debate I was only talking about beings such as animals, plants, or fungi.
Is growth the only factor to consider regarding killing that life?
No.
if the Nazi army is growing would it be immoral to kill it?
That would be up to the country that opposes the Nazi army, not me.
Yes, it should be legal for her to abort the child. Is it moral? Very hard to answer because one could say abortion is always wrong, but then be asked "so you would rather the baby suffer?". On the other side could say "yes, abort the baby", but then you run into the morality of abortions itself. It's almost a two sided sword, but I would not have the baby. Unless God was going to deliver a miracle I see no reason to allow a new born to suffer such pain.
I know that "ok" as used in the debate description is very vague, but you seem to be saying that there are times when it should be legal and is likely favorable morally, yet your post is tagged "Never OK"
Yes, I realize that now. I've clicked the switch option. I let my preference get the best of me and cloud me for clicking the option that actually fits.
Thank you for clarification. I assume you are asking for my opinion on the matter and I will give it. For this instance of "self-defense" I would leave the choice up to the mother, as I see no reason to restrict other women from trying to save theirs lives. Personally, I would still have the child, but I think that if giving birth meant dying you could have the abortion.
If someone is in your house without permission, when do you think it should be legal to shoot them?
Although I don't prefer violence at all, God has given us the right to defend ourselves. In biblical times it was the sword that would defend us, now it's a gun. If a man comes into my house with the intent to kill or attempts to kill me I will not kill him, but I will immobilize him, or prevent him from further harming me. I won't look down on people who kill the intruder who attempts to kill them.
Do they have to pose an immediate risk to your life or can they just be robbing you?
Yes, they must pose an immediate risk to my life. Those are just my preferences though.
In pregnancy, immobilizing and calling the cops isn't an option. Your choices are to kill or to let the person in your house do what they are going to do.
e.g. Kill or have everything you own stolen
e.g. Kill or be raped (sorry for the bluntness)
While I'm mainly concerned with what people think should be (il)legal, I do appreciate that you have included your own preferences.
I strongly believe that life starts at fertilization and I see abortion as murder. I understand that people accidently experience unwanted pregnancies due to the mistake of not using contraception, but I'm sure that they're not stupid enough to think that abortion is the only option. These days, there is so much support for mothers with problems - whether it be financial, ect. Even if the mother does not have any inclination to keep her child, why can't she resort to adoption or foster care? What is the point in ending a life just because it may cause disruption to yours?
What if the birth of the child results in the death of the mother if it goes ahead? If the pregnancy went ahead, the mother would die. Surely it is better to abort the pregnancy and save the mother's life?
