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37
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Debate Score:71
Arguments:50
Total Votes:79
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Liber(1718) pic



Adolf Hitler: Leftist or Right Wing?

Left

Side Score: 34
VS.

Right

Side Score: 37
3 points

Compared to the Christian Socialists of Europe (and the Communists), he was more Right wing than them, but his politics were Left Wing, technically. He believed in government control over the market and was, essentially, against any notion of free markets or Capitalism. He accepted the benefits that major corporations could bring, but still believed that government must have all authority over the market. This is a left-wing belief.

| Side: Left
casper3912(1560) Disputed
2 points

You are aware that classical conservatism didn't support the free market?

Burke would have much to disagree with on liberalism, which modern right wing is a mixture of classical conservatism and classical liberalism. The philosophy of Hitler was the polar opposite of communism, Mussolini himself described fascism as such. Just because a less popular branch of political ideology disagrees with liberalism, doesn't make it left wing; there is another type of right wing, adjacent to and further out then the one your apparently familiar with. (I would argue it interweaves.)

| Side: Right
ThePyg(6750) Disputed
4 points

Modern right wing has to do with less government in economics. Not general Conservatism or Republicanism.

So to speak, modern Conservatism does not equate the modern Right Wing.

| Side: Left
2 points

He was an environmentalist, an elitist, an animal rights activist; a vegetarian and stood in opposition to the use of asbestos, vivisection, pesticides, tobacco, etc. Not to mention he was a socialist.

If that ain't a liberal, I don't know what is.

| Side: Left
Sitara(11099) Disputed
3 points

That does not make him a liberal . He was a fascist, not a socialist.

| Side: Right
joshv(6) Disputed
1 point

He was a socialist, Nazi stands for National SOCIALIST German Workers, he was diffidently left wing

| Side: Left
1 point

Oh, he was opposed to vivisection, was he? And he stood for animal rights? I suppose Mengele's vivisection, brutal torture and violation of thousands of innocent human beings was OK with him? Last I checked, humans were animals, too.

I'd also say, in general, that Hitler was a right wing nutjob to the fullest extent. He believed in religion as a societal norm - hell, he murdered six million people because of their religion, and four million others because of their ways of life. Forcing people to believe what you believe, and then hurting them if they don't? That sounds all too Christian to me. And as we all know, the Right has apparently returned to its Christian roots of late, something that appalls me.

| Side: Right
Liber(1718) Disputed
1 point

was OK with him?

I couldn't say, but to say that he was a right winger for that is downright disgusting.

he murdered six million people because of their religion

1) That's the general right winger?

2) Ethnicity more so than religion, for non-practicing Jews were likewise exterminated.

That sounds all too Christian to me.

I wouldn't accuse any group of engaging in such a practice, for only the worst examples are brought to the forefront. Let us say that there is one Islamist suicide bomber who suicide bombs each day; that's roughly 365 per year, but let's count 5,000 to cover roughly fifteen years. The total is .0005% of all Muslims, and it is for that reason that I do not refer to them as being a violent religion. We only hear about the .0005% of violent Muslims in our sensationalist society, not the 99.9995% of peaceful, good people that make for uninteresting newscasts. There are over a billion Christians, and I can't think of much worse committed in the name of Christ than the atrocities committed in the name of Allah.

Right has apparently returned to its Christian roots of late, something that appalls me.

Christians have always had the right (and, for a time, the left, too); the difference now is that atheists have usurped the left and it can typically be assumed that if one is Christian, they are rightist, and vice versa.

| Side: Left
casper3912(1560) Disputed
1 point

You don't know then. :)

Modern liberals and conservatives are both liberals, as in adherents to liberalism.

Socialists are defined in opposition to liberalism, originally the word denoted more of a ethnics than a ideology, one against the atomist view of the individual present in liberalism. National socialism dislikes capitalism due to how it affects traditional values or "virtues", and is extremely opposed to scientific socialism, more so than the two are opposed to liberalism.

| Side: Right
1 point

Arguing on both sides to promote fairness. While many identify it with right wing politics, there is dispute coming from groups claiming it is syncretic

| Side: Left
1 point

ARCHETYPAL REVOLUTIONARY.

Unseated a Monarch. Shattered traditional Imperial German culture in favor of a Nationalist idolization of the state. Persecuted the Roman Catholic Church and demanded Protestant churches be subjected to the State. Organized German life according to industrial Taylorist principles.

Compare him to Prince Klemens von Metternich, quintessential Conservative, and try to argue he was a right-winger.

| Side: Left
1 point

I've read his book 'Mein Kampf' in the original German and I would say that Hitler would probably be a Democrat in the U.S.

His goal was to expand his own personal power. That's it. Democrats today provide the best opportunity to do this, for the same reason most modern dictators use socialist ideals to gain power.

The real reason he was against communists was simply because from perhaps 1925 on he had the idea of wiping the Slavic people off the face of the planet and populating those areas with Germans. He called it "Living Space". Additionally, he felt communists could never get the support of important capitalists to gain power. Which he then used against them.

He was an occultist who made an uneasy peace with the Catholic church, but would have preffered a "Dear Leader" cult like in socialist north korea. He nationalized a ton of German companies including Krupp. His ideas on Eugenics mirrored that of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger.

In modern times Democrats involved us in WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. Republicans have involved us in the Civil War, Persian Gulf, and Iraq.

I would say that despite the "dove" tendencies... Democrats pull us into just as many wars. It would be easy for Hitler to do so as a Democrat today.

Finally, Hitler used the Jews as a straw man to unify his base supporters. Because of the strong Libertarian trend in the Republican party this would be very difficult. However, Hitler could easily use wealthy white men as a similar target in the Democratic party with very little opposition. In fact they already do this.

| Side: Left
1 point

As nazi mentioned Hitler was leftist, many people confuse him as right because of his hatred of communism and "christian" morals. he dominated and created a controlled economy and brought merchants into the upper class of german society. also to make it easier for others to understand, NAZI means national german socialist party.

| Side: Left
0 points

If we're talking about the man himself, then I don't see how much further left you can go. Everything Liber says is true (maybe not the vegetarianism, but I'll let it slide). I suppose the only right wing belief he held was that he detested charity.

Obviously, his Nazi politics were not left wing at all. But, as we are evaluating Hitler himself, one could easily say he's up there with the extremist communists, in terms of "left-age".

| Side: Left
Liber(1718) Disputed
2 points

I suppose the only right wing belief he held was that he detested charity.

In what universe is that a rightist belief? I've never known a right winger who didn't support charity (a belief which I often dispute), and often far more so than most of the leftists I know.

| Side: Left
ChuckHades(3194) Clarified
1 point

Yes, you're right. It's my own fault really. What I meant was that a typical leftist would have concern and sentiment for the socially disadvantaged. A more rightist view would see such a thing as natural, which Hitler agreed with. It was my own mistake generalising leftist sentiment with charity, which may not be true in many cases.

Although I would argue, to a degree, that it doesn't matter whom you know. I don't know any Sikhs, but I'm not going to say that Sikhs don't exist as a result.

Nonetheless, thank you for alerting me to my error.

| Side: Left
3 points

It's not difficult to pick a few examples to make Hitler out to be whatever persuasion you want him to be:

-Opposed communism

-Strong religious identification

-Stressed conformity to Tradition

-Populism

-Anti-elitism

-Fervent Nationalism

-Military might was his foreign policy

-Opposed infringement upon national sovereignty by international organizations

-Cultural ethnocentrism

-Believed in harsh criminal penalties

-Opposed homosexuality

-Opposed abortion

-Opposed pornography

-Didn't believe in separation of Church and state

-Anti-immigration

Some of these might be a little redundant but you get the idea. This is really more of a phenomena I like to call "He's not in my group".

| Side: Right
2 points

I agree with everything you said, I was surprised that there is any question about his ideological leanings. I have actually taken several tests online which associated hitler with the same group as conservatives (a funny note is that Darth Vader was also associated with this group).

The test related to the ideological leaning on both economic and social issues. Hitler was both socially conservative and economically liberal, this putting him in the conservative camp. those who were conservative in both areas were the extreme communists like lenin and mao. Ghandi was a social liberal and economic conservative - polar opposite of the conservatives. And the anarchists (unibomber) was totally liberal on both measures. I felt that it was a pretty accurate representation of the ideological alignments.

I found myself to be right between Lenin and Ghandi, economically conservative and middle of the road with social issues

| Side: Right
2 points

I did not know this. Where did you get this information ?

| Side: Right
Warjin(1514) Disputed
2 points

Sounds like a Conservative Republican to me. I wonder how many right wingers knew that they had pretty much the same views as Hitler, this might make them rethink there political affiliation.

| Side: Left
joshv(6) Disputed
1 point

Hitlers beliefs were nothing like conservatives. He was part of a socialist party, which is left wing

| Side: Right
Liber(1718) Disputed
1 point

"He's not in my group".

I'm in neither group, so are you really going to insist that I am behoven to claim he is a leftist because I don't want to belong to his "group"?

-Opposed communism

He was a socialist.

Strong religious identification

Most likely in name only; people like a leader who claims to be of similar religious beliefs.

Populism

Which is leftist.

Anti-elitism

You are trying to list Hitler's beliefs, right? How much more elitist does it get than to kill those who are different than you?

Fervent Nationalism

Though not, I believe, in the sense with which most others are acquainted. Being from the Old World, the nation is the heart of ethnicity, whereas American nationalism is truly nationalist.

Military might was his foreign policy

Traditionally rightist, but still a position held by some leftists.

...

You get the picture. Perhaps some of his harsher views are customarily associated with the right, but many of his other, shall we say less important views are hideously leftist.

| Side: Left
Bohemian(3469) Disputed
2 points

I'm in neither group, so are you really going to insist that I am behoven to claim he is a leftist because I don't want to belong to his "group"?

It's an observation that I have seen time and time again, people don't want to be in the same category as Hitler even if the category itself isn't important. Christians say Hitler was an atheist. Atheists say Hitler was Christian. Lefties say Hitler was a righty, and Righties say he was a Lefty.

He was a socialist.

And? Communism and Socialism are not synonymous. Especially not the kind practiced in the USSR.

Most likely in name only

That's debatable.

Which is leftist.

The Tea Party movement is leftist?

How much more elitist does it get than to kill those who are different than you?

This is genocidal xenophobia that you just described.

Perhaps some of his harsher views are customarily associated with the right, but many of his other, shall we say less important views are hideously leftist.

Then you see my point then?

| Side: Right
Nick91983(270) Disputed
2 points

Hitler wasnt a "socialist" per say, he was a "national socialist" which meant that he cared only for germany and german concernes and was only socialist insofar as it benefitted his pure arian group. One could easily argue that this is the sentiments of the current right wing political and ideological position since they tend to predicate things in terms of wars between the 'us' group and the 'them' group, making all sorts of distinctions between class and race etc... A lot of the right wing policies favor the wealthy at the expense of the lower classes (for example the notion of a flat tax) Hitler prevented certain people from attaining positions of wealth and power because it didnt favor is group (almost the same as classism). If you look at american history, the "red scare" was a right wing persecution of leftists in a lesser but similarly charactered manner that we associate with hitler and the nazis.

One of the differences between the nazis and the right wingers is that the right wingers still hold to some of the democratic and liberal enlightenment ideas that are found in the constitution. Other than that I dont see too much difference.

How is populism leftist?

I didnt get what you were saying about nationalism, nationalism takes on many forms (about one's nation or ethnicity or belief), but they are all still nationalism in character. even though there could be said to be a subtle difference in the forms of nationalsm, I would argue that nationalism (although not solely a right wing characteristic) is typically a part of the right mentality.

...

I would agree that there are a few ideas which are sort of leftish but in terms of overall position and attitude I cant see how the rightist opinion holds much weight

| Side: Right
casper3912(1560) Disputed
1 point

1, political economy is a bit more complicated than just a chasm between left and right, but there exists a graduation along with large leaps.

2. Fascism, or "national socialism" isn't socialism. Originally socialism was a term used pretty generically, more or less denoting opposition to atomist interpretations of the individual. Within that vague and general agreement of individuals consisting of communities is a vast array of different ideologies. Fascism is closely related to classical conservatism. Modern socialism, actual socialism not the liberal straw man of it, is against both liberalism, classical conservatism and fascism. In short, "national socialists" are not socialists. Just because someone isn't a liberal, doesn't make them a socialist. The "middle" should not be excluded.

3. No true Scotsman fallacy

4. Populism has never been leftist except near revolutions, it is far more common for the people to support familiar institutions; which means conservatism.

5. etc.

If you really want to know if Hitler was left or right, you take a look at his philosophy and his goals.

The left has always been for greater freedom, and yes Leninism is a right wing offshoot of socialism(it isn't socialism according to left communists and the USSR was never communist according to any leftist), the right has been for preserving various cultural institutions; Fascism is all about that and it views free market capitalism and some of its forms as derogatory to classical values. Fascism is a right wing reaction to the some stages of capitalism, communism is the left wing action against the whole of it. Liberalism is in this sense, the middle.

| Side: Right
1 point

Hitler was a rabid racist, anti gay, warmongering National Socialist. Todays right wing conservatives are rabid racists ( the republican party is primarily a southern party who's leaders excite their base with race baiting rhetoric), are opposed to gay rights, and see war as the solution to all foreign problems.

| Side: Right
Liber(1718) Disputed
1 point

Hitler was a rabid racist

Racism is not a political ideology.

Socialist

Left wing.

Todays right wing conservatives are rabid racists

That's an extreme generalization and ideologically untrue; for instance, the conservatives freed the slaves, the conservatives stupidly gave us the Civil Rights act, etc.

the republican party is primarily a southern party who's leaders excite their base with race baiting rhetoric

Oversimplification and untruth.

see war as the solution to all foreign problems.

Oversimplification and generalization. As Ron Paul loves to say, Republicans have been elected over the past century whenever the people want whatever war they are in to end.

| Side: Left
Cobrax30(22) Disputed
1 point

Backup your statements with facts.

I'm not in the south, yet I primarily vote Republican. I am not racist, opposed to gay rights, or see war as the answer to all foreign policy issues.

In fact I think Ron Paul proves you wrong on all accounts.

| Side: Left

National Socialism was only socialism in name. Need proof? I need only point to Volkswagon.

| Side: Right
1 point

You guys are all wrong in what he was I mean as far as what he was doing that he thought was right in his eyes.

| Side: Right
1 point

Arguing on both sides to promote fairness. While many identify it with right wing politics, there is dispute coming from groups claiming it is syncretic

| Side: Right

I would suppose right-wing for he was a Fascist and was pretty conservative

| Side: Right

Conservative because he killed Gays, Jews and Gypsies. He believed in one race.

| Side: Right
Cobrax30(22) Disputed
1 point

This is the kind of argument that you make when you are too uneducated on the subject to actually say something intelligent.

Conservatives are not racist, and neither are Liberals. Nor do either ideology promote the mass killing of unarmed civilians.

However, take a few minutes to think on this... Just as Hitler and the Nazi's promoted hatred of Jews... isn't there a parallel to Leftists promoting hatred of Christians? How many people left leaning people here have expressed hatred or negative stereotypes for Christians just in this debate?

| Side: Left
1 point

hitler was right wing

because he was a politican in nazi-party

nazi-party was a extremly right wing party.

the nazi-party's idologi was

anti-homosexuallity

anti-abortion

anti-migration

anti-pornography

anti-comonism

anti-disablity

and lower taxes

so hitler was right whing.

and the nazi-party's ideologi is not so different from the republican's ideologi

| Side: Right

Hitler was right winged and hated everything to do with communists which made him more of a bastard than ever

| Side: Right

Hitler was right winged and hated everything to do with communists which made him more of a bastard than ever

| Side: Right
1 point

Hitler was fairly clearly right-wing. I'm not going to post any of the same arguments anyone else has stated, but I will point out that, when he rose to power, it was the liberals in his country, the progressives who opposed Hitler's rabid militarism, that suddenly started disappearing. Science and the arts, both generally considered to be associated with the left, were either banned or molded into something that supported and glorified what Hitler wanted to be the truth. During the war, those that tried to negotiate for peace with Germany's enemies were labeled traitors, and more often than not were captured and executed, even in the dying days of the Third Reich.

| Side: Right

Hitler put the F in fascist.

| Side: Right
0 points

He was pro-capitalism on an extreme level, killed communists, he was anti gay, thought women should wear skirts and stay at home and make babies. He didnt support democracy (obviously since he was a facist), was highly religious.

Most of the notions I am mentioning are the general position of right wing politics and right wing ideology. How is there really a question that he was right wing? I cant think of any single thing that would associate him with the leftist ideology.

| Side: Right
Liber(1718) Disputed
1 point

He was pro-capitalism on an extreme level

Being socialist and pro-capitalist is oxymoronic.

killed communists

And leftists only kill capitalists?

he was anti gay

And not a single leftist is anti-gay?

thought women should wear skirts and stay at home and make babies.

It was the '30s! Everybody thought that!

He didnt support democracy

Most of the notions I am mentioning are the general position of right wing politics and right wing ideology.

Most of the notions you mentioned are liberally skewered views on right wing politics and ideology.

was highly religious.

Debatable.

How is there really a question that he was right wing?

Did you read my original argument? Environmentalist, animal rights supporter, restricted advertisements on tobacco and supporter of gun control; he was a socialist who believed in wealth-redistribution and made laws restricting businesses.

| Side: Left
Cobrax30(22) Disputed
1 point

Let me ask you this... Why are Libertarians part of the Republican party and not the Democratic party?

It's simple... Republicans tend to believe in individual freedom. Sometimes that means freedom to worship, freedom to engage in trade, and freedom to reject things like gay lifestyles, freedom to own guns... ect. You don't see them trying to illegalize gay sex even though many would like to.

Democrats believe in state control. They like to think of this as forcing people to serve the greater good, however it's still done at gunpoint. They believe in limiting religious freedom to personal sectors, forcing people to accept gay lifestyles, government control and coercion of trade, and state control of all weapons... ect.

Let's get real. Hitler was very clearly a totalitarian leftist. His methods were more violent. Remember his goal was the general improvement of the German people by state authority.

Here is an exact quote from Hitler regarding religion:

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

Clearly he believed that religion needed to serve the state. That my friends cements him clearly on the left.

| Side: Left


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