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Debate Score:40
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 An order for the Rosicrucian Order (30)

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dacey(1043) pic



An order for the Rosicrucian Order

 

I have been invited to join the Rosicrucian Order.

Before doing so , I would like to know more about this non-religious order. (according to my dictionary they arent a religion)

This is what i have researched and found so far.

Earliest mention of them is made by Arnold de Villanova , an officer of the fraternity , in his "Rosary" in 1230   

The Rosicrucians have been known by many names.

The international order is known as AMORC.

It was popularized in the fifteenth century by one who bore the symbolic name of Christian Rosenkreuz (Christian of the Rosy Cross)

This information ^above,  i obtained from my Websters New Twentieth Century Dictionary published in 1947.

Below is some websites i have been looking at in my quest for knowledge regarding  The Rosicrucian Order:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=Yn0IAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=Arnold+de+Villanova+1230&source=bl&ots=kq-p-lqRBK&sig=eGS4iBFJQfHdbmQdsEjourNoyd4&hl=en&ei=m4J2S-aCIYzq7AP1y8GmCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CB4Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Arnold%20de%20Villanova%201230&f=false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnaldus_de_Villa_Nova

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/alchemy/timeline.htm

http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Medieval/medicine.html

http://www.rosicrucian-order.com/principal9.html

 http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Christian_Rosenkreuz/

http://themysticlight.tripod.com/rc_christian_rosenkreuz.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian

http://www.google.com/search?q=Christian+Rosenkreuz&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-au:IE-Address&rlz=1I7MEDB_en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=eHZ2S5-OGIrW7AOl3vGhBg&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=19&ved=0CDoQ5wIwEg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In my unconscience consciense mind , i truly believe in "something"

I refuse to call it a god , by any name ,  purely because i dont want to offend this "something"

Ive already blasphomied and abused every god by every name in a church.(oddly my life took an amazing turn for the better)

 

I only know what i have learnt through experience or through what people have taught me.

Hypocracy is what ive learnt most. 

As far as this "search for the truth" , so far i have been greeted by bias fanatics that are not even truly dedicated to their religion or "god" that they boast of ,  and condemn me to hell with.

So i guess i will stop my research as of now and leave it up to you genious people here at CD to tell me the answer.

Especially as i have not a clue as to what to do.

I was baptised catholic.

Ive looked at various religions since my rebellion began in 1983.

Because i have this insanity to think , i wrote this prayer .

"Im the black sheep , all lost and broken ,To find my home , not from a token , of written words of those said spoken , will be the day i am awoken." 

 

 

My question is :

What can you tell me about about the Rosicrucian Order ?

 and

Should i accept their invitation ?

 

 

Add New Argument
2 points

I didn't read all that you wrote, but I do have some knowledge of them. They say that it is a predecessor to Freemasonry. Freemasons have, for centuries, been at the center of conspiracy theories (it is for that reason that I always thought that it would be fascinating to 'go undercover').

"concealed from the average man, provide insight into nature, the physical universe and the spiritual realm," that there I would take pause to. They are talking about a 'spiritual realm,' some 'secret society,' of 'mystics'? They are involved in mysticism - some of them caught up in the supernatural. But of course, only if you believe those things.

As for whether or not you should join it, it is not up to us to decide for you. If you want more details on them, I'm sure that Deviant knows more (that's right, always pick on him - he only seems to know everything).

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

Thankyou. :)

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
John10(1) Clarified
1 point

Hi Dacey.

I have been a member of the Rosicrucian Order, AMORC for 14 years. My time there has included sitting on the Board of Trustees for several appointments and I am currently still an active member.

Please feel free to ask me any questions at all.

My email address: johnpaloscott@gmail.com

Regards

48 days ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order

As Groucho Marx once said, "I refuse to join any group that would have me as a member."

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

Smart men :)

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
2 points

By your own admission you're a "black sheep" in your eyes.

One of my primary problems with religion is they prey on those desperate to hear anything.

So do you think these people have some secret Truth? Will they make you happy, make you feel like you belong? That in itself can be nice. But you will still feel like a black sheep. That's your nature I expect, maybe you should just embrace it. It might not be that bad, I kind of like it for myself.

I expect what will happen is you will repeat your past. I don't know you, but that is what people do.

People looking for an answer always find it one way or another. Doesn't mean the answer is right though.

Maybe instead of joining a new cult, you should consider the idea that perhaps there isn't an answer, or you're asking the wrong questions.

"The mind's its own place" and all that.

Sounds to me like you are doing what a lot of the indoctrinated do at some point. It's hard to separate oneself from what they were taught their whole life and felt was true since they remember,

Maybe you're turning into an atheist and just don't know it yet.

Or maybe you are going to just keep joining any group of people who will have you.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

Thanks .

No i wont be repeating the mojority of my past , thankyou.

nor will i be joining any cult of any religion by whatever name.

Or accepting any group that will have me. (THATS JUST INSANE)

I do apreciate your oppinion of who i am though.

Semi correct you are.

semi.

:)

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order

He said that maybe you are just joining a group that'll have you. As long as you are on CD, we'll have you. You are welcomed here - it doesn't matter about your past or who you are, everybody's opinions are welcomed.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
2 points

You were invited to join the Rosicrucian Order? It appears that everyone is. [1]

It's only going to cost you between $77 to $382 a year to be a member. But that is a small price to pay to gain the power to become invisible at will -- if that teaching really works.

One observer has commented that the Rosicrucian's are a low-pressure, less expensive version of Scientology, based on New Age beliefs instead of L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction.

Some say you can learn everything the Rosicrucian's have to teach for only $18.44. That's quite a savings! [2] The author of this book says, "real Rosicrucians would never take your money the way AMORC does".

Perhaps you were invited to join the Ancient Order of the Rosicrucians, the Fraternitas Rosicruciana Antiqua, or the the Lectorium Rosicrucianum, just some of the many competing Rosicrucian groups out there. During the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, various groups styled themselves Rosicrucian. Almost all claimed to be authentic heirs to a historical Rosicrucian tradition, itself highly suspect. All claim that the others are frauds. About that claim, they may all be correct.

It is said that, "The Rosicrucian Order was invented in the early 1600's by European intellectuals who wrote allegorical tales blending alchemy with Protestant Christianity. These days, they are just another for-profit New Age group, leveraging claims to ancient wisdom into bank deposits". [3]

Invented? Was this an actual organization, or just a fantasy? No actual Rosicrucians ever surfaced, but there was plenty of documentation about them. The problem is that these documents are, for the most part, obviously fictional.

You might want to read "The Real History of the Rosicrucians" by Arthur Edward Waite. Originally published in 1888, this book is generally considered to be a fair and objective review of Rosicrucian history. [4]

The invisibility trick? Just learn to gather clouds around you. You won't be noticed. Honestly -- if the Rosicrucian teachings are true.

[1] http://www.rosicrucian.org/about/join/index.html

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Doctrine-Rosicrucians-Magus-Incognito/dp/1585090913

[3] http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4164

[4] Get a free PDF download at: http://www.archive.org/details/realhistoryofros00waituoft

4 years ago | Side: The Invisible Order of the Gullible Ones
1 point

Absolutely correct.

That is why i wont be joining.

Like all ancient cults , orders , religions,

All have been corrupted.

I must say im glad for your contribution , thankyou.

Now , can you tell me anything about Arnold de Villanova ?

please.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

"Now , can you tell me anything about Arnold de Villanova ?please".

I know nothing about him other than what I've just read on Wikipedia, and I see no reason I would want or need to know about him.

Why are you so interested in him?

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
divinity7(1) Disputed
1 point

The blind following of any group or religion I feel is an inappropriate way of using your intellect, mind, and life. There is value to be found in most mystic, spiritual or religious groups although you may need to sift through the dogma to get to the kernals of "truth" within them. I think the bottom line for any teaching or practice is whether it works for you in life. Does it make your life better to follow the practices or to study the knowledge base? I suppose "better" is subjective but there are possible common characteristics of a "better life" found throughout our culture. Here are perhaps some examples. 1. Does it give you a more empowered view of yourself and your place in the world-universe? 2. Does it make you happier or more joyful? 3. does it improve your relationships with others? 4. does it help you improve your place in the world...financially...socially...etc (whatever holds most value or importance to you). 5. does it teach you skills or mind and body that assist you in reaching your goals? 6. does it promote no harm to self or others through your acts?

Just remember to never take any information for granted. If AMORC gives you information or teachings to read..cross reference them and delve deeper into source material....whether if be Kabbalah....alchemy.....Mystic traditions. In the end "truth" and info needs to be made your own.

As for AMORC being a "for profit" organization...they charge $15 a month to send you via internet materials to read. If you want them to send you hard copies of the same matierial it is a bit more. Any organization has administrative costs and AMORC has a egyptian musium and planetarium and such that they run as a non-profit. It seems a small price to get the information and have access to the resources. Of course, these days many of the written resources are available online or free at google-books.

As a disclaimer, I recently (6 months) have joined AMORC and participate in a local Pronaos (group). I find it both intellectually, spiritually, and socially fullfilling. I also read and have read alot on my own.

2 years ago | Side: The Invisible Order of the Gullible Ones

I'm a member of the Rose Cross by birth. So is my brother. So is my grandfather. Although We're all like non-practicing Jews.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

Hello sunshine :)

Arnold de Villanova .

Can you tell me anything about him?

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

As far as I can tell from the links provided this "Rosicrucian Order" has no affiliation with the Freemason. I do know that the Scottish Rite Freemasons (USA) has a Rose Croix order. As for "going under cover" in the Freemasons try knocking on the door they will show you around and answer all your questions.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
2 points

Of course they would show me around - it would show me that they have nothing to hide. However, almost every conspiracy theory wraps around the Freemasons - whether or not they are involved, it would still be fascinating to learn.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

How true .

And yes true also that it would be fascinating to learn about.

I had an wise old freind , (i have not seen him for a few years now.) , but he is a Freemason.

Lovely ,respectable, strange man with a definate air of mystery.

Also once , i met another young man who had possesion of a Freemasons ring.

I was told that he had no right to have it in his possession.

I cant remember why though.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

What can you tell me about the Freemasons beside that of which you have already stated?

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

Its a charitable organization! it has been around in the USA before it was the USA. George Washington, Ben Franklin, Paul Revere where members as well as many other founding fathers.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

I'm not going to comment much about all of these things. But one thing I know about all secret societies is their number one rule is to never talk about it, to never tell anybody about it, to deny it's existance and to keep it a secret society.

This doesn't sounds like a secret society. So it's nothing that great I guess.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
2 points

Maybe they act as though they are hiding nothing to corrupt people into thinking that they aren't hiding anything.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order
1 point

Hahaha true say.

But that's a completely different kind of society.

4 years ago | Side: An order for the Rosicrucian Order


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