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 Are Africans less intelligent than westerners ? (42)

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Dermot(5736) pic



Are Africans less intelligent than westerners ?

A very controversial subject which makes it worthy of debate .

I ask the question because this is the claim made by a Nobel prize winner and a pioneer in  DNA research ; is his claim correct or not ? 

One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

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5 points

Hi Dermot, I would assert that we don't need the opinion of a Nobel Prize winner to point out that blacks are less intelligent than whites, and indeed other racial groups such as Asians.

The evidence of white's superior intelligence is glaringly obvious all around us in the shape of almost everything we use, and need in our everyday life.

The only people who would try present a counter argument would be blacks or the more obtuse members of the loony left P.C, brigade.

Even though we have all been conditioned to deny the blatantly obvious truth of not only the inferiority of the average black's intelligence, but also the lack of those in sufficient numbers with the necessary executive ability to form coherent administrations which can provide their people with effective education, health care, defense and other social considerations such as social housing and hardship relief.

From Galileo to Robert Oppenheimer, and from Logie Baird and Alexander Graham Bell to Charles Babbage and Tim Berners-lee we can observe the ingenuity and intelligence of the white man.

The discovery of penicillin,the splitting of the atom, the petrochemical industry, space going rockets and air travel all go to conclusively illustrate that blacks have contributed little or nothing to mankind's advancement and well being.

In times of national disasters such as crop failures it's to the west that the primitive, sad eyed Africans with their hard luck stories point their bottomless begging bowls.

For countless centuries they have been planting crops in barren sand with the predictable outcome of crop failure, predictable to everyone that is except the black man.

Take a look at Detroit and now Chicago, and note how the black man's lack of intelligence and non existent organising abilities has turned two previously prosperous and thriving cities into African style violent, poverty stricken hell holes.

Of course we'll have the usual squawking parrots responding with their boringly predictable chirping of , racist, racist, racist and their embarrassing ''whataboutery' blustering, but if by expressing these self evident truths makes me a racist, then I'm a racist and bloody well proud of it.

3 points

Hi Antrim , Excon has already expressed himself and as usual he just goes off on one ; I would much prefer if he addressed the points you make and attempt a rebuttal but I bet he won't .

I've heard Detroit was bad I didn't know Chicago was equally so , I must do a bit or research .

Antrim(1287) Clarified
2 points

Hi Dermot, because there will be those who will try to deny the undeniable truth doesn't make it any less the truth.

As you sit at your computer powered by electricity communicating in English ( not Swahili ) and possibly listening to your radio be aware that such luxuries are available with the compliments of white inventors.

If, later on you settle down to watch a bit of television and maybe sip a beer from your fridge then make a telephone call to someone, be mindful that such 'taken for granted' technological miracles are all the result of the brilliance of the white man's superior intelligence and ingenuity.

After this, if you may to go for a burn up in your automobile with its pneumatic tyres safely gripping the tarmacadam highways and using your sat nav to find your desired destinations be conscious that white scientists made such an experience possible.

We could go on indefinitely about how the modern world relies almost exclusively on the inventions and discoveries made as a direct consequence of the white man's superior intelligence but the neanderthal dummies will only try to dismiss the truth with the usual forlorn and meaningless cries of racist, racist.

The absolute truth that a circle isn't a square doesn't become any less true because some idiot(s) say I'm talking nonsense or others try to prove that a circle is indeed a square.

excon(18260) Disputed
1 point

Hello D:

I dunno what else there is to say.. I feel SOILED when I dive into this cesspool. But, I'll address his post..

It's simply HATRED with statistics.. And, you know what they say about statistics..

It IS true that Detroit is a decimated city.. IF you WANTED to, you COULD say it's because lots of black people live there.. Or, you COULD say it's because the automotive industry left town.. I know what I'd say..

excon

excon(18260) Disputed
1 point

Hello Antrim:

It must be noted that your screed is a VILE, RACIST, PIECE OF SHIT..

excon

Antrim(1287) Disputed
2 points

I would have been extremely disappointed if I hadn't been able to lure you to respond with your usual ''in denial'' nonsense.

Good to see that you were the first idiot to take the bait, but, undoubtedly there'll be a few more like you.

However, regardless of how many emotionally charged irrational outbursts, such as yours, are posted the truth of my statement is unquestionably scientifically accurate.

Have a nice day Bongo.

Dermot(5736) Disputed
1 point

That's the easy way out , why not attempt a valid argument against the points raised ?

excon(18260) Disputed
1 point

Hello Antrim:

I BELIEVE that you BELIEVE your fake statistics.. I'm just wondering which came first.. HATE - or the statistics to back it up..

Seriously, cause in my every day life, I don't run into statistics like that... Oh, if I LOOKED for them, I'd certainly KNOW where to find them.. But, I DON'T look..

You look. I wonder WHY..

So far, we've been discussing black people, so I dunno how you feel about Hispanics.. But, if you wanted to read a "scientific" study about how inferior Mexicans are to white people, you can find it on the Heritage Foundation website.. Not surprisingly, their "study" says those Mexicans are really STUPID, and have a BAD gene pool to boot.

Now, I don't visit that site, but my bet is that we could find a similar "scientific" study on black people... So, for ME.. I would NEVER visit a site like that unless I was LOOKING for agreement.. My question for you is, do you present the "scientific" stuff because it FITS your mentality, or because it's SCIENCE??

I'm just trying to find out whether you HATE black people, or are just reporting scientific data to us.

excon

jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

" their embarrassing ''whataboutery' blustering"

Stupid fuck. If you're not ready to debate, don't spew your hate shit opinions and not expect a counter. Do you even have the intelligence to dissect a counter? i believe not .....no wonder you try laying down measures(Some lame jabs) to ensure you are not replied.

Pussy man.

When are you ever gonna debate?

Dermot(5736) Disputed
1 point

You say ......When are you ever gonna debate?

😂😂 this coming from you is hilarious when your cowardly lies were exposed in your own words on C D yesterday you ran like a dog

The mistake that's being made is implying that because statistically black people are less intelligent, it's because of genetics.

That's simply not true. Any educated person can easily point out the vast amount of factors affecting the lower intelligence of black people.

Culture is the glaringly obvious one. Asians tend to be smarter than black and white people because they have a culture built around the expectation of educational success. There's a huge amount of pressure placed on Asian children by their families to try their hardest and achieve academically, and as a result, they have more support from their parents in terms of physical aid and economic aid.

The material deprivation of black people is undeniably also a huge factor. Black children can't reach their full potential if they're living in poverty, as many black families are. Minerals, vitamins, books, computers, learning resources/tools, etc. are all extremely important to education success and they can't be obtained without money.

Now, that's all about black westerners. But Africans? Well, the answer is even easier.

Africa is the poorest continent on Earth. Along with a dire lack of infrastructure, it's infested with draught, hunger, general poverty, war and violence... the reasons as to why Africa is like this is a topic for another day.

Undeniably, though, these conditions are not suitable for education. So, why are westerners more intelligent than Africans? Because the west is rich. Africa is not. If genetics are involved, it's due to conditions, not because of "the black gene".

1 point

I would have to disagree with that assessment.

For starters we would have to look at a few factors, and I'm going to try to be fairly broad understanding that it may be seen as racist by some.

First I would like to know what "testing" was done and how. What was the control group, who was tested, what was the background of those whose answers pointed to the claim that there was no equality in cleverness.

Second.....seriously Detroit is awful. I stayed once for a week and my car was nearly swallowed up by the many many many potholes, no joke you could tell exactly where the city line was by how the roads are. That city in particular has been brought down by crooked politician after crooked politician. It was prosperous once but when the car manufacturing stopped so did the jobs. The government doesn't have the money to pay the cops needed to work such a large city, and crime is rampant. People aren't given a direction to go, they simply exist. Some are trying to make it better with the sum total of zero support they are getting from their government officials. It's a work in progress, honestly it's interesting to see how society would be if there was a complete government collapse. The criminals are taking it over as the good people who can leave, do. And those who can't are left behind and trying to survive. This doesn't mean they are less intelligent, just that they don't have the means or opportunity to do so. Some are trying to make the most of it but they don't have the help that many in other communities have. Some have the benefits of having teachers who care, good and proper nutrition and good families where family value is encouraged, others don't have that. Breaking through the mold of what is expected of you is incredibly difficult, especially when everyone around you works to keep you in your group.

One of the dumbest things I've heard was a black child studying for his class and he was mocked and accused of acting white. Acting white? Trying to get an education to better yourself and your situation is imperative, but that's how some of them think. I still don't think that makes them less intelligent, simply lacking the the motivation to not accept the lot they have in life.

Some major players in the scientific community are black. The head of NASA, Charles Bolden. Neil deGrasse Tyson, Sylvester Gates are both highly respected scientists, Mary Jackson is an aerospace engineer.....there are lists and lists of great accomplishments by members of the African community. The main differences are they are given the opportunity to advance and succeed and they had the drive to do it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raceandintelligence

Above is, I think, the study that you are referring to or at least the mention of it. The main points brought up in IQ scores done around the world are that:

The racial groups studied in the United States and Europe are not necessarily representative samples for populations in other parts of the world. Cultural differences may also factor in IQ test performance and outcomes. Therefore, results in the United States and Europe do not necessarily correlate to results in other populations

Nonetheless there is a general consensus that the average IQ in developing countries is lower than in developed countries, but subsequent research has favored environmental explanations for this fact, such as lack of basic infrastructure related to health and education.

Nonetheless there is a general consensus that the average IQ in developing countries is lower than in developed countries, but subsequent research has favored environmental explanations for this fact, such as lack of basic infrastructure related to health and education.

One can find great intelligence when given the opportunity and finding the motivation to.

*note: sorry if this response is choppy, finding links and trying to compose a proper debate response while at work isn't easy today. ;D

0 points

This is definitely not a political question. This is purely a statistical question, nothing less, nothing more - it just comes down to what the stats show. If mean intelligence is lower in Africans than it is in Westerners, then the claim that Africans tend to be less intelligent than Westerners is true, end of story. I don't know what the stats show, so I won't make any claims here.

Note however, my emphasis on the word "tend." I emphasize this because if there are differences in mean intelligence, they wouldn't mean that one should assume an African individual will be less intelligent that a Westerner (or vice-versa), it just means that it is more likely than not that the Westerner will be more intelligent. One shouldn't make assumptions about individuals because any difference in mean intelligence will likely be small enough that no level of certainty can be involved in those assumptions.

To simply say that Africans are less intelligent that Westerners is vague, and will lead people to make the wrong conclusions.

There are certainly many Africans more intelligent than you and I are.

(Note: Intelligence is not defined clearly, adding a layer of vagueness to the question)

0 points

First, our testing for intelligence is not a hard science. Second, if it were the case that Africans are less intelligent, it does not carry a genetic implication as some might think. The average of anything does not tell you about the specific. Furthermore, when Polish Jews arrived in the US they had lower average IQs. After a couple generations they had higher average IQs.

The impact of environment over time is not fully understood. Do you suppose the natives of Papua New Guinea would have high IQ test scores? Not likely. But the their primitive lifestyle is not the result of low IQ, but rather the opposite.

3 points

I received two quick downvotes on this and not one counter-point. How dissatisfying.

1 point

That is rather annoying a counter point is always preferable , I just gave you two upvotes

Dermot(5736) Clarified
2 points

No , it's not a hard science . DNA testing could possibly test for intelligence as the article below states ........

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/aug/09/genetic-differences-intelligence

Enviornment has a great deal to do with it I would think , I often wonder how great an impact it has on societies .

Why did African nations never colonise or dominate our societies ?

Were white nations more technologically advanced ?

Amarel(5669) Clarified
2 points

Genes and intelligence are both too dynamic for there to be a direct or singular causal relationship. Not to mention that our measurements of intelligence are somewhat subjective. For an anecdotal example, we can all think of someone who is "booksmart" but lacking in "common sense". This just means they are intelligent in a certain respect, but less so in another. Testing is beginning to account for variety in intelligence, but I expect there is a long way to go.

Why did African nations never colonise or dominate our societies ?

I'm sure they did. They dominated each other. Just as Europeans spent hundreds/thousands of years dominating each other. Africa is a huge continent, with a long history that we don't have cause to learn about. As for why they didn't expand beyond the continent; I expect it's a mix of institutions, culture, and geography.

Were white nations more technologically advanced ?

Not in the Dark ages when much of Northern Africa was dominated by Muslims who were at the height of their golden age. Western civilization's dominance is relatively recent and is likely due to a complex combination of factors. Though I expect our institutions that came out of enlightenment era philosophies are the largest factor.

-1 points

Hello D:

Yeah.. It CAN'T be racism if it's true, right?? The reverse, of course, is, that if it's NOT true, it's racist as hell. Can there be TWO truths?? No. If there can't BE two of 'em, they're really NOT truths, are they? They're beliefs. And that puts us back to square one. You have your beliefs and I have mine..

Now, you can assert that your belief is the truth, and you do. Antrim certainly does, and he's got statistics to back him up. But, his truth is no more the truth than mine is.. After all, black people MIGHT be dumb as rocks. I just don't BELIEVE they are..

excon

Dermot(5736) Disputed
3 points

No it's not racism to state a fact if indeed it is a fact ; and if it's not true it's not racist either , it just means there is no evidence to back the claim up .

If one of these positions is correct well then it's a truth and not a belief .

I did not ' assert ' any position on this topic but typically you go into a hissy fit , whys that ?

I did not say black people are dumb as rocks , I asked people to debate the topic and whether they believe the veracity of the Nobel prize winners statement ; this is a debate site do you realise that ?

outlaw60(15368) Clarified
2 points

One has to wonder if everything as you view it is racist. Is there a bottom to your racist claims would be the question. There is a lot of black inanimate objects in this world what would be your next target ? Excon you are so blinded by rage that you don't have the ability to understand when someone is yanking your chain. Darwin is doing it , Antrim does it and yes Outlaw does it. Shock factor brings out your emotions and you are gut hooked immediately !

1 point

You're right , he sees racism everywhere instead of just calming down and reading exactly what people say instead of what he imagines they really mean

excon(18260) Disputed
1 point

Hello poochy boy:

Yank away... But, if you're gonna post racist shit, I'm gonna BE on it like white on rice.

If you do it to BAIT me, I'm gonna BE in your shit.. If you do it because you HATE black people, I'm gonna BE in your shit.. In other words, I don't care WHY you're a racist.. I just care that you are..

Now, get this stick..

excon