CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your own opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
Absolutely, because it serves a great purpose of ogling at a beautiful body. And there's nothing wrong with that. Pageants have come a long way in terms of including bathing suit competition. Its done less tastefully than it used to be, but that is mostly a problem with choice of musical score, and lighting.
I'm 22 and have been doing beauty pageants since I was 2 months old. My daughter also does pageants. She started when she was 1 1/2 months and now is 2. She loves it! THE DAY SHE TELLS ME "MOMMY, NO MORE" IT WILL BREAK MY HEART AND I WILL PROBABLY HAVE A HEART ATTACK, BUT SHE WON'T DO ANOTHER PAGENT.
With all due respect, your daughter didn't "start" nothing at 1 1/2 months old. YOU started her in it. So when she was 1 1/2 months old you took her to a pageant and some "expert" looked at her among other kids and then decided which kid is the prettiest.
Bravo.
You've got a pretty kid. You should be so proud of your achievement!
A lot of parents introduce their kids to activities such as sports and various lessons when they are very little. But all those activities require some skill and the reward comes from hard work. And there is a progression of skill level.
What exactly is your daughter rewarded for?
I just don't get it. What is the skill she is meant to cultivate and be proud of? Walking and looking pretty?
The sheer fact that you say you will have a heart attack if she wants to stop, is evidence that this is more about you than it is about her.
But with all due respect, I don't think childhood is a time for pageants like this. I think the whole point of being a kid is to have fun- not adult fun with looking pretty and dressing up, but kid fun. When I was a kid, I liked to play outside and run around. We all just wanted to get dirty and forget our troubles. I see these pageants as something that could really stress your daughter out. Besides, at this age, no boy or girl should be judged and rated on his or her looks.
Your mother put you there and now you're putting your daughter there. Neither of you had a choice in the matter. The fact that you've come to love it speaks more of habit than beauty or whatever the concern of the pageant is. What are your hopes and dreams for your daughter? That she is pretty, charming, walks well in heels and wears a swim suit to beat the band? Wow, I can't think of anything less worthwhile than something like this for a child. But then again I'm not a big beauty pageant person myself. I think they're ridiculous as a rule.
She does have a choice in beauty pageants. look at mu picture she's GORGEOUS! She loves pageants, and that's why she does it. She is 2 and has over 100 trophies and tiaras. She loves her trophies, and that is why we put her in 1 or more pageants per week. Pageants are expensive, but we want to see her happy. She chooses it, not me. I put her in pageants when she was 1 1/2 months old because she was beautiful and loved to look at my pageant crowns. She won EVERY pageant she got in and I do it for her smile! She has a pageant coach that she loves, and she has so much fun doing pageants and practicing for pageants. Now see it from her side:
me:
KATELYN, DO YOU LIKE PAGEANTS
katy / katelyn
YES MOMMY !
me
WHY DO YOU LIKE PAGEANTS?
katy
WE GET TO DRESS UP AND PRACTICE WITH MAIDYN (her pageant coach) AND PUT ON MAKE-UP AND SPRAY TAN AND LOOK GOOD. WE GET TO GO SHOPPING IN L.A OR BEVY HILL (beverly hills)
I am pretty sure you've just validated my point. Why does she like pageants? Because they let her "look good" And how does she think she should go about that? Spray tan and make-up and expensive clothes. And what is she all about? Glitz and glam.
I have taught preschool for 5 years, and do you know what MOST kids her age are "all about"? Fun. No glitz, no glam. They don't care when they spill fingerpaint all over their clothes, because they've not been taught yet that the material possession of clothing matters. They don't feel any pressure to be beautiful, and yet they still are. I don't mean any offense here, but all toddlers are beautiful. With or without spray tans and makeup.
Your poor child doesn't know any better. All of them say they like it until they're old enough to think about it, then half call it traumatic. You like it, she senses that, she acts accordingly.
But it's a little kid, there's 0 reason on earth for her to be all dolled up like that whether she likes it or not. If you like beauty pageants, you go do one, fine, you're an adult. But why subject your child to this? If you find another hobby for her, I gaurantee she'll like it just as much, and won't have pervs watching her all the time.
Well whatever, it's not my kid. But reallly, I mean seriously, who the hell do you think watches or cares about little kid pageants except the parents of the little kids?
No normal adult cares how cute your daughter is unless they're a relative or have something wrong with them.
And you can play dress up with her at home if you really want.
I support you totally David and others who think this is not a good thing. The person who is putting this debate up has only been here for four days and already has down voted people who disagree with her over 20 times. This is not a good thing! You've asked the question and you're getting the answers. Just because you don't like them is NO reason to down vote so many people. I've told you in another debate that this amounts to karma bombing which is not the right way to go here. Every time you down vote you are are taking a point away from yourself by doing so. Read the portion on down voting here on CD and you'll soon discover what and when to down vote.
She's basically gone to my other debate "Should child beauty pageants be banned" and downvoted every argument on the "yes" side.
She's done the same here as well. What a fascist hypocrite.
.
To the creator of this debate:
I find it funny that you can't even tolerate an opposing view on the matter, and yet you proclaim that your daughter can stop the pageants if she so wishes.
If your daughter is in one - two pageants a week, she hardly knows anything else since she's been doing it since age 1 1/2 months and she's only two now. It's kind of difficult to 'see' this from her side since it is so slanted in one direction.
Thank you everyone for answering. I will try to do less pageants 1-2 per month.
Although my husband is supporting my decision, Katelyn isn't so much. I will do less pageants though and do more child things with her. My husband says thanks. Katelyn hasn't warmed up to the idea, like I said before, but she will. I cant thank you guys enough for bringing me to the other side of the story. You guys are truly amazing.
THANK YOU!
PS what would make Katy realize that the best thing for her would be to cut down on pageants?
I would suggest trying out new activities/hobbies she might enjoy. At her age, gymnastics is a fantastic activity, which gets her comfortable with moving her body in different ways and would set her up for a healthy, active lifestyle later on. Dance is also fun for children at her age. Above all, if she's not already part of one, I would suggest putting her in a preschool program (Not a daycare) so she can be around other children her age and learn the fundamentals that will set her up for academic success.
For someone who is breaking their neck thanking everyone let me ask...does that include the 21 people you've down voted in the last 6 days? Talk about disingenuous!!!
Seriously, this lady is addicted and has a mental imbalance. Obviously, she is trying to put some guilt trip on us like we took something from her daughter! Gag! Look in the mirror...and stop programming your kid, let her think for herself!
Unfortunately this two year old can't think for herself...she's been programmed differently from the way most children have. If you ask her what's important she's sure to tell you Beauty Pageants are the most important. Neither the mother or the child are dealing in the real world.
I would suggest dancing; tap dancing if she is active and ballet simply because a lot of little girls enjoy it. The recitals allow for her to get dressed up and pretty plus she gets some great costumes and meets many new friends. Plus it's also quite healthy and helps improve coordination.
Beauty pageants reward no real skill or achievement other than being attractive. These contests reinforce the idea that women should be primarily valued for their looks.
Arguments can (and I'm sure will) be made that pageants are not solely based on appearance, and sometimes incorporate other competitive portions such as personality, talent, and interview, but regardless of how poised, well-spoken, educated, and talented a woman might be, if she is unattractive, she is not going to win.
Pageants are merely money-making enterprises that prey on women's vanity.
I would not say that there is no achievement in them, while looks are hereditary the people in the pageant must still go through a lot of hard work in order to stay in shape to keep that beauty.
As for it being unfair for an unattractive woman not being to win it, seeing as intelligence is mostly inherited wouldn't that mean it is also unfair to judge a person based on smart they are?
seeing as intelligence is mostly inherited wouldn't that mean it is also unfair to judge a person based on smart they are? I didn't say that an intelligent woman who was unattractive would be unable to win a pageant. Rather, I stated that a poised, well-spoken, educated, and talented unattractive woman would be unable to win. Being intelligent does not necessitate that you will also be talented, poised, and well-spoken.
the people in the pageant must still go through a lot of hard work in order to stay in shape to keep that beauty. Beauty is something that people do not go through "a lot of hard work" to acheive. Unless you consider wearing makeup, getting your hair teased, and wearing fake teeth to be "hard work".
Furthermore, your disputed argument fails to address the impact on society of the idea that the cultural ideal of beauty is to be valued above other attributes. It's a damaging idea because there are far more important attributes to be honored in people than beauty.
What have beautiful people done for us? Given us something to masturbate to? On the other hand, what have intelligent people done for us? Created almost everything we value and use today. So whether or not the attribute under consideration is hereditary, what matters is how important that attribute is in terms of contributions to society.
I stated that a poised, well-spoken, educated, and talented unattractive woman would be unable to win. Being intelligent does not necessitate that you will also be talented, poised, and well-spoken.
So? Just because some people can't achieve something based on predetermined attributes does not mean that said thing is bad. That same woman would not be able to make it as a singer, but does that make singing competitions bad?
It's a damaging idea because there are far more important attributes to be honored in people than beauty.
Just because you single out an attribute and judge it does not mean it is the most important attribute. By judging singing ability we are not implying that singing is more important then intelligence, by watching sports were are not implying that being athletic is more important then intelligence, and by judging beauty we are not implying that looks are more important than intelligence. If people want to compete with each other by using attributes other than intelligence who are you to say that it is wrong for them to do so?
Beauty is something that people do not go through "a lot of hard work" to achieve.
If they want to keep that beauty then they do, there are tons of people who were attractive when they were kids but lost their beauty because of stupid choices and not exercising.
What have beautiful people done for us? Given us something to masturbate to?
Well, what have athletes, singers, actors, comedians, etc. ever done in terms of contribution to society? Just because they give no practical use does not make them bad.
If you want to blame society for being too focused on looks then your gripe is with the magazines and tv commercials that are telling unattractive girls they are useless and not with pageants.
So? Just because some people can't achieve something based on predetermined attributes does not mean that said thing is bad.
But it also doesn't mean that said thing is worth honoring either. It's just how a person was born. The way one looks is determined by his/her genes. It's not a skill they have achieved. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being beautiful, just that beauty is not a skill.
Just because you single out an attribute and judge it does not mean it is the most important attribute.
Agreed, but pageants single out an attribute that takes no skill or talent and then judge and honor people based on that. It's giving importance to something that ought to have none and it makes us superficial.
If they want to keep that beauty then they do, there are tons of people who were attractive when they were kids but lost their beauty because of stupid choices and not exercising.
They did not lose their beauty. They simply do not fit the current cultural ideal of beauty, which changes over time. Being thick in size was once the ideal, but now it is to be stick thin. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Well, what have athletes, singers, actors, comedians, etc. ever done in terms of contribution to society? Just because they give no practical use does not make them bad.
Athletes, singers, actors, and comedians all provide a service to society called entertainment.
If you want to blame society for being too focused on looks then your gripe is with the magazines and tv commercials that are telling unattractive girls they are useless and not with pageants.
It is with both. The problem is that pageants compound the problem of over-emphasizing beauty (with only one standard of it, which makes it that much worse).
Well, some women are primarily valued for their appearance, at least for their day job. If an underwear model can make some easy money lounging around on cushions or on the sand in some tropical paradise, it would be stupid of her not to. Sure she could get a 9 to 5 job or a corporate job, or make her own business. But really, if shes hot and smart she can do both. Look at Heidi Klum, she is a business woman with her own line of items. She is smart and beautiful. Sometimes you can have it all.
Not really. They should encompass more areas than just beauty. And besides, what looks beautiful to me might not be beautiful to you. How can I judge who is beautiful and who is not without being biased?
No way. Beauty pageants are all about HOW they look, WHAT they've done, and not WHO they are. It sets up little girls to go through life thinking people will only like/approve of them if they're beautiful and accomplished. It sets up grown women to cling to the idea that their self worth is based on looks and talent.
I am honestly very neutral to this subject, but I will say I do believe the beauty pageants can tell girls that they should centralize beauty. Unfortunately some of the girls feel like they MUST compete to appease their parents and they think they can get by in life on looks alone. This is not the case all the time but when it is, it is rather sad. I have seen and heard of women who dress their daughters in false straight teeth, wigs, fake eyelashes, etc. and all I can think is "It's simply horrible" because from an early age you are telling the girls "no you are not beautiful enough.". I know some of the girls love dressing up and putting on a show for everyone which is fine, but they should have other activities such as playing violin, writing, painting, hell even fencing. I just do not believe being "pretty" should be rewarded because people need other skills. Answering generic questions and having mediocre talents does not help in the real world. I just do not believe looks are to be valued so highly because in the end they fade away to dust and ash. Plus some nasty little girls can win some of those pageants, such as my little cousins. The youngest who still compete is a nasty little thing who puts on her sweet act on stage. When their are pageants to judge character or actual skill than I will be ok with also having the beauty pageants.
Something that's always bothered me is in this day and age we do not know when a pedophile is at some of those pageants
This was a VERY disorganized rant thank you and despite my past statements good luck to pageanties =)
