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Debate Info

11
11
I believe we are equal I believe there's inequality
Debate Score:22
Arguments:21
Total Votes:22
Ends:01/01/18
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 I believe we are equal (8)
 
 I believe there's inequality (9)

Debate Creator

In51gnia(14) pic



Are human rights between man and woman equal in North America?

Feminism is a huge deal in society today where women all over the world are expressing there needs to be equal to men in every aspect. They have managed to en mass huge bodies of support in favor of equal rights to men. Statements made include a wage gap between men and women where men make on average more money, there are things that men can do that woman cannot (such examples revolve around the area of sexual activity), that men hold the majority of political power and positions of authority as well as countless other arguments. Men however, in mockery of the feminist movements are ridiculed and looked down on by the feminist movement which in the end said at the time that they were for sex equality in society.

All these arguments are fair game from either side. Is there a wage gap? If so what evidence can you support? Can women do things in society that men cannot or vice versa? What are your opinions and where do you stand on the matter?

I believe we are equal

Side Score: 11
VS.

I believe there's inequality

Side Score: 11
2 points

In the case of a wage gap, I believe there is no such thing. The greatest argument I could ever reasonably conceive of on this issue is that corporations are about making money. The best way to make money is to save money. If women were making so much less then men on average, in the spirit of cutting costs and saving where they can you would see many more men jobless and woman taking over those positions simply because they are the cheaper option.

Side: I believe we are equal
Lopilulu(287) Disputed
1 point

At the bottom level, there is no wage gap since dirt cheap is dirt cheap regardless of gender. On the other hand, at the top end of corporations (where wages get negotiated individually) unless the woman shows clear signs of not intending to have children or any sort of family life, thus meaning she can dedicate a huger portion of her time to the job, she will tend to get underpaid relative to the men at the same level as her.

Side: I believe there's inequality
In51gnia(14) Clarified
1 point

So, you're talking about top end corporation jobs where wages are "negotiated individually" and when a woman says hey I have a baby on the way and the boss goes "you willing to take a pay cut to pay to have the job?" and she says yes, okay? How is that even a dispute? In your scenario you are literally blaming the woman negotiating the terms of her employment and agreeing to it as the reason woman are so pissed that there is a wage gap...

screw it my statement stands... there is no wage gap... a man can negotiate a pay cut for time off too.

Side: I believe we are equal
FuckleBery(20) Disputed
1 point

That is just not true. If a women was to get denied a job or negotiate lower pay because of wanting to have a child.. law suit, huge law suit. Major corporations obviously know that is a no fly zone. Maybe a decade ago it was acceptable but not in 2017.

As for the theory of the wage gap, it is exactly what it sounds like. A WAGE gap not a PAY gap. The major studies that showed there was a difference in women and men's income were mostly discredited year ago. They took the pay from all men in the work force and all women and compared them and found that after all those salaries were compared men mad on average 23% more than women.

Side: I believe we are equal
2 points

Human rights are referenced in the title of this debate, yet only certain social privileges are put forth as examples of inequality. These are not human rights in my estimation, but rather "Social Privileges".

This confusion between what are human rights and what are simply social privileges, continues to confound the subject.

Take away society and then list the rights of a human. It becomes quickly evident that education and health care are not automatically available to any human. These are provided by societies, not a god.

Claims of human rights are inferred as part of creation, yet they are simply not.

Side: I believe we are equal
In51gnia(14) Disputed
1 point

Human rights are granted by the particular society they are governed by. Natural law governing all life is what I assume you are talking about when you state "as part of creation." by that notion a leaf blowing in the wind and making a rustle has the same right to free speech as any human does.Under natural law all are equal based on their means and nature is inherently unbiased. The stance you take in this argument is a bit of a trump card that can be thrown out here true, but it doesn't exactly conform to the spirit of the debate because you clearly know what was meant by the debate title.

Further note the two definitions of Feminism is as follows

1

: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2

: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

Therefore under definition of feminism which the debate was about, but you can only chunk it in so many words when creating a debate here is about womens rights and when you deal with both sex's it becomes human rights and interests.

Side: I believe there's inequality
daver(1731) Disputed
2 points

How exactly do you get from human rights to the rights of a leaf blowing in the wind. Strange leap of context indeed. Once again social privileges are clearly distinct from a human's right to be alive. The spirit of the debate was a question regarding human rights between men and women, yet the OP only listed examples that were not human rights.

This same conflation is used by liberals in order to claim that certain social privileges are in fact human rights. Clearly the OP made this conflation, hence my response.

Side: I believe we are equal
1 point

hu·man right

noun

plural noun: human rights

a right that is believed to belong justifiably to every person.

Side: I believe we are equal
2 points

Nope. When a couple divorces the woman usually gets custody of the children. More men are raped in USA jails per year than women on the streets. Men that work with care work or with children and persistently doubted as being perverts merely for their sexuality. Child sex abuse by women is almost completely ignored.

Need I go on?

Side: I believe there's inequality
In51gnia(14) Clarified
1 point

So are you saying that in many of the issues that woman care about themselves are in fact happening even worse to men?

Side: I believe we are equal
Lopilulu(287) Disputed
1 point

These are arguably all stereotypes (apart from the divorce but that is usually because absentee/neglectful father's are usually present in divorces, notice I didn't say abusive as that is less common).

Side: I believe we are equal
2 points

Equality is only an aspiration. At no time are we ever in a steady state of equality. And just like in your debate their are examples and scenarios where women come out on top and others where men do.

Side: I believe there's inequality

your right. Everything does not have to always be equal and fair. There is always some sort of inequality between group A and group B simply because the people in group A are not the people in group B.

Side: I believe there's inequality
In51gnia(14) Clarified
1 point

While that is true in the sense that a man could never be a woman or vice versa are you saying that equal rights, equal pay and equal treatment for an action no matter what that action is woman seem to come out on top. That meaning women are treated better than their male counterparts in the majority of cases?

Side: I believe we are equal
Grenache(4613) Disputed
1 point

No I really don't think women come out on top. But regardless this outcome varies dramatically from case to case and region to region.

Side: I believe we are equal