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I inspired a debate? Cool. On a serious note, I truly believe that religious people are delusional. Lets look at the definition:
Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
There are numerous rational arguments against a god existing. Do theists still believe in their silent, invisible, all powerful, all loving friend even after being presented rational arguments? Yes. Theists are delusional.
I'm not sure the non-existence of God is generally accepted as reality, because if that were the case, there wouldn't be so many theists in the world. Rather, neither side is 100% sure of His existence or lack thereof. Also, I'm still confused as to how having a belief makes me delusional. I've heard all of the rational arguments, and I'm not saying they're wrong or false, I'm just saying that I have my faith. If that's a crime, so be it. I thought the bigger picture was accepting other people's differences and moving on? Calling us delusional seems to be a step backwards again.
If you are given a rational argument clearly contradicting your beliefs and you choose to ignore the argument and continue believing on "faith", then you are delusional. It is also very difficult to accept a person's belief system and move on when it is so obviously wrong (not to mention how religious organizations get so many unreasonable benefits; tax exemption for example).
You seem to confuse an ad hominem for a valid argument. You called religious people delusional, claiming there are arguments that we have ignored to continue with our faith. Please present the arguments.
such as complete lack of any kind of empirical evidence? Being based on ignorance and fear? Thousands of mutually exclusive gods with their own mutually exclusive myths ?
Idiotobx, too bad you cannot give any rational arguments. Then again, you would need the ability to think and reason to do so, which you clearly cannot. your an idiot.
That is only a rational argument when you are in the second grade, which I am sure your IQ level is at. Think before you post, you are embarrassing yourself.
Well as your argument suggest, that being dead set in your ways takes delusion, I'd like to clarify that it would only take delusion if you had been proven wrong, otherwise, being dead set in your ways could just be your surety that you are correct.
However, I'd also like to mention that not every religious person is a fundamentalist. Some are religious only on the surface, so to speak. They believe in the teachings just because they feel they are good, but they don't actually believe in the magical aspect.
Yeah, I Am Only Talking About The Crazy Fundamentalists. One Thing Though, Not Being Proven Wrong Wouldn't Be The Only Reason You Can Be Sure Of Yourself. If You Have A Position That Can't Be Proven Or Disproven, You Would Be Delusional To Think You Were 100% Correct No Matter What Anyone Says.
They think that God is responsible for everything and that if you commit sins you'll go to hell. Even though a lot of people due actions they call sins. For some reason Lieing is a sin. Even though religious people as in the popes lied plenty of times.
So yes they are delusional in my book if they worship some imaginary friend that's not even real.
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
We can surmise that, if the belief or impression does not differentiate from the norm, it can not be a delusion, thus religious people are not delusional.
We can surmise that, if the belief or impression does not differentiate from the norm, it can not be a delusion, thus religious people are not delusional.
The belief or impression is contradicted by rational argument.
The belief or impression is contradicted by rational argument.
Correction-it is COUNTERED by a rational argument, which is then countered by another logical religious argument, which is countered by another logical non-religious argument, which is countered by another argument.
There are numerous verses in the Bible that talk about the expansion of the Universe. Eleven to be exact. But with all due respect, your previous posts have made it abundantly clear that you are closed minded and not open to a rational debate on the subject.
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature [was] as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Ezekiel 1:22
[It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
- Isaiah 40:22
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 44:24
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isaiah 45:12
Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: [when] I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 48:13
And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where [is] the fury of the oppressor?
Isaiah 51:13
He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Jeremiah 10:12
He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15
Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Job 9:8
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:7
Hast thou with him spread out the sky, [which is] strong, [and] as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18
He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness [was] under his feet.
Psalms 18:9
Who coverest [thyself] with light as [with] a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psalms 104:2
Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.
Psalms 144:5
He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness [was] under his feet.
2 Samuel 22:10
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
I written 3 papers on the matter from various viewpoints but here's the basics:
Genesis 1:1 -"God made the heavens and the earth." The phrase "the heavens and the earth" is a phrase that, in Hebrew, means all of the created universe. The verse is also in the perfect tense, meaning this particular verse happened before the rest of the chapter. So how can all of the universe be created, and then remade again in the rest of the chapter? In the expanding universe theory, the universe began with the singularity. All of matter was comprised in one tiny mass less spot in the beginning. So like in Genesis 1:1, all of the universe was in fact created in the beginning, to then be reformed later as described in the rest of chapter 1. This concept is further clarified when it says in verse one how all the universe is created, but then in verse two it says the world wasn't FORMED yet. All of the universe was CREATED (in the singularity), but wasn't FORMED yet. In verse 3, it says God said "let their be light". In the expanding universe theory, at some point the singularity expands exponentially. This expansion is so fast, pure energy (light) is created or is just simply there when this happens. Basically, light was made. After this, the universe continued to expand until it cooled enough where there could be places without light, aka darkness. Genesis 1:4b "And God divided the light from the darkness". Seeing a trend here?
Scientific? Like talking animals ? Logical? DO you realize that there are literally thousands of religions and each one of them claims to be the only true one and all of them are based just and only on mythology?
Scientific- Like comparing the first few days of Genesis to the expanding universe theory (big bang theory)
Historical-In Genesis 6-9 there is the story of how God flooded the whole earth. The whole earth is not referring to geography, but the people. God judged all the people of the earth. According to the Bible, people did not spread out among the Earth. The localized flood explains why EVERY culture has a version of the flood story and why the Earth is the way it is today. A localized flood also explains why the levels of water aren't different. Scriptural support for the localized flood is below:
Creating universe in wrong order in six days has literally nothing to do with big bang theory.
Flood suppose to be everywhere not localized, which is simply bullshit especially fitting on a mid sized ship millions of animals a thousands of tons of food and water etc...
The word day in that context menas 24 hours, because it's defined as a time periond with morning and evening with dar and light period and called DAY so yes it that context it does mean one day/24 hours.
Genesis 1:1-2 no word for universe or singularity, earth cretaed before stars....
Genesis 1:3 as I said WRONG order, no words for expansion, release of energy, nothing...
Genesis 1:4 again bullshit, you cannot separate light from darkness.
Big ang theory does not allow presence planets, comets or anything before protostars.
Are you saying that there aren't any rational arguments against god's existence? Wow, how very blind and ignorant you are. Here, I'll give you one right now:
Christians claim that god is all-powerful. So can god create a being more powerful than himself?
Here's another one: can he create a four sided triangle?
No, it doesn't exist because it never can exist. It's a category misplacement. God can only do everything logically possible. Your asking God to create something with three sides but with four sides. It's impossible because it cannot exist. However if one wishes to say God created everything and logic is one of them then he is above logic. Then he may be able to do the logically impossible.
Are you saying that there aren't any rational arguments against god's existence? Wow, how very blind and ignorant you are.
You're talking to an atheist, friend... You sound a bit upset.
Christians claim that god is all-powerful. So can god create a being more powerful than himself?
I'm not sure if this is an question that humans are even capable of answering at the moment, either way, how does this negate the existence of god himself?
You're talking to an atheist, friend... You sound a bit upset.
I'm always enraged... grrrrrr.... :D
I'm not sure if this is an question that humans are even capable of answering at the moment, either way, how does this negate the existence of god himself?
We actually can answer it. If god can created a being more powerful than himself, he is not all powerful (as the being he just created would be more powerful). If he can't, he is not all powerful (as he couldn't create the being).
This negates the existence of god because god is supposed to be "all powerful".
We actually can answer it. If god can created a being more powerful than himself, he is not all powerful (as the being he just created would be more powerful). If he can't, he is not all powerful (as he couldn't create the being). This negates the existence of god because god is supposed to be "all powerful".
You can't just tack onto "all powerful" with something else as that already encompasses the margin of being all powerful.
The reason being is that, if he is omnipotent, then he certainly could break the rules and have it both ways, which of course feels intuitively wrong, but that's only because it's just not the sort of thing that humans are able to answer.
You can't just tack onto "all powerful" with something else as that already encompasses the margin of being all powerful.
The reason being is that, if he is omnipotent, then he certainly could break the rules and have it both ways, which of course feels intuitively wrong, but that's only because it's just not the sort of thing that humans are able to answer.
So you're saying that we can't answer that argument and because we can't answer it, it must be invalid? You know what... fuck it. I've already explained to you the arguments answer, all that you are doing is basically saying the answer is wrong.
So you're saying that we can't answer that argument and because we can't answer it, it must be invalid? You know what... fuck it. I've already explained to you the arguments answer, all that you are doing is basically saying the answer is wrong.
No, what I'm saying is that any representation of infinity is merely a concept, not a tangible number. It's impossible to add or subtract something to it.
Christians claim that god is all-powerful. So can god create a being more powerful than himself?
Didn't I already explain this to you? One translation uses the word omnipotent in only one verse. Almighty is the proper term. He has infinite might. He has authority over all and is infinite in a measure of his might. He is not omnicompetent.
Also your question is illogical. Category mistake. He cannot create something stronger than infinity. It's a logical impossibility. There can't be two infinities.
You again? I already told you, I don't want your Spaetzle.
On a serious note, the whole argument you are referring to is invalid. You basically made up your own shitty definition of "omnipotent" and "omni-competent" to try and justify your claim of god being all powerful yet somehow not all powerful. Jesus!
You again? I already told you, I don't want your Spaetzle.
Then actually learn how to understand the bible and God.
On a serious note, the whole argument you are referring to is invalid. You basically made up your own shitty definition of "omnipotent" and "omni-competent" to try and justify your claim of god being all powerful yet somehow not all powerful. Jesus!
I used the bible's definition, which is almighty, and since you refuse to listen and even try to be reasonable and only strive to be correct you just say I change the definition. Quote me then. Like totes show me where I actually "made up" a definition of omnipotence and omnicompetence?
Definition of omnipotent:(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything
I don't care for the modern definition. I have definitions that say otherwise. The bible usually calls God almighty. Almighty as in all mighty. Infinite might. Power for God is a measure of his might not capability. He isn't omnicopetent.
That isn't making up a definition. Thats telling you that the bible's definition of omnipotent is almighty. Now you can't read my argument? You totes can't be like serious. I WILL note this. Also, look at the argument I gave pakitus or whatever the username is. Those are the other definitions. The modern definition is silly. "Can do anything"? We know that is impossible.
The modern definition is the one Christian retards use. facepalm
Most christian actually don't. So slap yourself silly. Most don't even know or use the word because their bible never uses the word "omnipotent". Try again. Go to church and take a poll. Ask "What does omnipotent mean?" They won't know. Their bibles say almighty. You're making idiotic assumptions now. Some Christians know it, many don't. Deal with you wrongness and move on.
Hey idiotobx, we are still waiting for you to give your first rational argument on any subject. Your parents should not allow you anywhere near a computer, or others for that matter.
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
Belief that talking snake made rib woman eat from magical tree exactly fits...
the belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie will grant you immortality, if you ‘symbolically’ eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can rid an evil imbedded in mans soul because some rib woman was tricked into eating a magic apple by a talking snake
Delusion is simply believing in nonsense, being unable to spot that your belief/knowledge is an obvious bullshit ...like for example talking snake, people walking on water etc...
Religious people believe in things that are against common sense and/or empirical knowledge, known physical laws, etc...
no it is not subjective, it is well known to every single person that had ever a biology class that snakes cannot talk. ignoring this because it does contradicts with stone age mythology... it is an obvious mental defect.
I'm pretty sure that there are PLENTY of people who've taken a biology class that believe in the bible.
Anyways, you're off topic. It's your opinion that it's a mental defect, or silly, but that does not mean that you can change the definition of delusion to prove this.
It is simple truth, "Knowing" that there is an invisible wizard that protects you if you keep repeating some mantra and firmly believing that by doing magical ritual has actual effect... yes that is clrealy delusional.