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 Are there more than two genders? (16)

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John-Locke(10) pic



Are there more than two genders?

Today´s society strongly upholds the belief of gender being a social construct by other societies instead of a biological trait. Countries such as Sweden and Finland are leaders in the promotion of such a belief, supporting not only transgender rights but also the existence of other genders besides the ¨traditional¨ male and female, terms like ¨non-binary¨ and ¨gender fluid¨, the state of a being not having a gender. These new and rather radical ideas of the conception of gender are an extremely controversial and uncomfortable topic that most people would rather avoid. So, Are there more than two genders?
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Yes. There's male, female, and progressive. One has a penis. One has a vagina. And one has one or the other but can't figure out which one they have without wikipedia.

Let's start with definitions to avoid confusion. These are from Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Gender: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex.

Sex: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures.

Given those definitions, it's possible for someone to have male sex organs and a female gender, and vice versa, or a mixture of both (aka non-binary or gender fluid). So, the male and female genders are more like the ends of a spectrum, and someone can fall on one end or the other, or somewhere in between.

Even sex can be non-binary, because approximately 1 in every 4,500 people are born intersex. That's 1.43 million people. Some variations of people who are intersex include...

-having both ovaries and testicles, and the external genitals are neither clearly male nor female.

-Having ovaries and a penis-like structure or phallus.

-Having undescended testes and external female genitals including a vulva.

2 points

Even sex can be non-binary, because approximately 1 in every 4,500 people are born intersex. That's 1.43 million people. Some variations of people who are intersex include...

-having both ovaries and testicles, and the external genitals are neither clearly male nor female.

-Having ovaries and a penis-like structure or phallus.

-Having undescended testes and external female genitals including a vulva.

Right. Intersex would be a "non-binary" sex, and I'm open to their being "non-binary" gender (e.i. they are somewhere on the M-F spectrum that secludes them from either psychologically), however, this still does not sensibly get you to there being 63+ genders that are just as Biologically legitimate as M or F.

LittleMisfit(1705) Clarified
1 point

" this still does not sensibly get you to there being 63+ genders that are just as Biologically legitimate as M or F."

I agree. IMO, the whole concept of gender should just be discarded, because I don't see any use for it.

EldonG(102) Clarified
2 points

I appreciate this, and have no problem with the concept that there are those that are not strictly male or female. I've actually known about it for some time - but - assuming that gender isn't binary, but a range between two points on a line, do we then have more actual genders, or simply some level of mix? I am male, though every fetus transforms through a female stage...but I'm still male.

LittleMisfit(1705) Clarified
1 point

do we then have more actual genders, or simply some level of mix?

I think it could be seen either way. I don't think either view is wrong, they are just two different perspectives on how to define gender.

0 points

Nope. You're nomenclature, the humanoid butt clown.

JaceCarsonne(72) Disputed
2 points

If that makes sense, then why is it that on submission forms of various kind, you see one of these two things:

Sex: (circle one) M or F

OR

Gender: (circle one) M or F

Notice the interchangeably used words.

Yes, this is also true for Doctors' Office and Hospital forms. So if you are going to claim that the majority of doctors are incorrect, please do so.

LittleMisfit(1705) Clarified
1 point

Different dictionaries have different definitions. I went with Merriam-Webster because the first two definitions I saw were from Dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster, and they both had the same definition. So I didn't see any need to look through every dictionary on the web. Plus Merriam-Webster is one of the most well known dictionaries and has been around since 1828.

Here are definitions from some other dictionaries.

Dictionary.com - the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Oxford Dictionary - Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones.

Cambridge Dictionary - the male or female sex, or the state of being either male or female

Collins Dictionary - A person's gender is the fact that they are male or female.

If you want to define gender as the same thing as sex, that's fine. You can define things any way you want, as long as you understand that when discussing gender with someone else they may not be talking about the same thing as you.

marcusmoon(255) Clarified
1 point

LittleMisfit,

The definitions conveniently help with defining what we are not discussing.

Thanks.

Gender: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex.

-

Given that gender is grounded in personal interaction (whether or not it is compliant) with culturally defined concepts, the answer to this question/topic depends on where or when we are discussing.

For example, a behavior (flower arrangement) that is masculine in one culture/era (feudal Japan) could qualify as feminine in another culture/era (1040's Texas), and be ambiguous/irrelevant in another culture/era (2017 Texas).

Since we negotiate our identities with the rest of society, there must be some agreement/cooperation between the individual and the other members of society on the question of gender. That is why this topic is so important to some people (both strict and liberal), even though they are cisgendered/ traditionally gendered (masculine males and feminine females).

Certainly there are some societies where the gender roles are rigidly tied to sex, such as conservative Muslim societies. This is likely to correspond to how rigid the division of labor is. If tasks are universally categorized as being the province of men or women (sex) then the society has an interest in strict gender roles to ensure all tasks are completed. This means, generally, that there are only two genders in that society.

By the same token, the less rigid the division of labor, the less important gender is, because people can negotiate for what tasks they want within the social group. There is no need for automatic labor assignments (as happens with strict gender roles) so in these societies, there can be multiple genders without it having any actual impact on family/group/society function..

1 point

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In my opinion

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If gender still talks about sex then it will still lead to vagina and penis.

There is no need to be in delusion. What they only need to accept is what sex they have, if they have penis then it is a man If they have vagina then it is a woman

If a man with penis wants to have vagina, >It's still a man<

What God has done cannot change; Thank God; Rebellion of Human

That man just wasted his money for his desire instead of helping the poor.

--

They got option

$Live in Envy

$Live Appreciating

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--People can practice appreciation and self-acceptance if they desire--

2 points

There's just two. There's mine, and then there's whomever I choose to have sex with.

By the way, that means all of you whom I don't choose to have sex with have no gender at all. Deal with it.

EldonG(102) Disputed
1 point

I sense a problem here - I'm male. I extrapolate that seeing as I have gender, that must mean that you want sex with me...and frankly, after thinking about it, I have a headache. :p

Grenache(5364) Clarified
1 point

You can relax. Because in my scenario you'd just have no gender at all.

1 point

Today´s society strongly upholds the belief of gender being a social construct by other societies instead of a biological trait. Countries such as Sweden and Finland are leaders in the promotion of such a belief, supporting not only transgender rights but also the existence of other genders besides the ¨traditional¨ male and female, terms like ¨non-binary¨ and ¨gender fluid¨, the state of a being not having a gender.

Well, there certainly aren't 63+ genders and sex/gender does, rather obviously, have a biological basis. Whether there is potentially more than the traditional "male" and "female" (in which transgender people could psychologically identify with the opposite gender more than their biological sex), it could potentially be true that for an extreme minority of people, for some biological reasons, they do not psychologically identify with either major gender (or their biological sex). However, this does not mean that gender is a very "fluid" domain. Now, gender roles are more of a social construct that have been influenced by biological underpinnings and are open to revision.

EldonG(102) Clarified
1 point

I don't specifically mind the concept, but I'll point out that I like solid definitions, and I don't have one. I understand and feel for those that are truly trans, but that still implies only two genders. I get fluid and unusual sexualities, but that doesn't require more genders.

What is a third gender? A fourth? Etc?

1 point

I don't specifically mind the concept, but I'll point out that I like solid definitions, and I don't have one. I understand and feel for those that are truly trans, but that still implies only two genders. I get fluid and unusual sexualities, but that doesn't require more genders.

Right. Transgender is a separate matter because they psychologically identify with one of the two genders M or F for which their biological sex is the opposite. That does have a biological basis. Sexuality is a separate issue also because it is still in the "binary" domain. I'm not sure what it would mean either for their to be a third gender, although I think it is conceivable that there could be biological reasons for there to be an extreme minority of people that could be associated as "non-binary" from a psychological standpoint. Talk 63+ genders is an absurdity. Moreover, I think that this is making things more difficult on transgendered people who get grouped in with that kind of nonsense.

Did you hear about Canada making the "correct" use of gender pronouns a legal matter?

1 point

Yes, there is more than two genders....there is male, female, and stupid. That's three.

mrcatsam(333) Clarified
1 point

Yeah. And number three describes you perfectly;)

.....l....................

marcusmoon(255) Disputed
1 point

NowA,

Yes, there is more than two genders....there is male, female, and stupid. That's three.

This is a close-minded point of view that directly clashes with my personal experience.

I have personally encountered

- 1 - Males

- 2 - Females

- 3 - Stupid Males

- 4 - Stupid Females

Drop your "bigotry" and do the math. ;)

NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

If you are not saved, all your knowledge is vain . .

1 point

There are more than two genders but they arent natural genders they are not natural they just aremixed up human beans