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Debate Info

57
43
Prochoice. Prolife.
Debate Score:100
Arguments:79
Total Votes:108
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 Prochoice. (36)
 
 Prolife. (28)

Debate Creator

SitaraForJesus(3819) pic



Are you prochoice or prolife?

I am prochoice for a few reasons: 1. I feel it is wrong to force women to give birth. 2. Life begins at first brainwaves in my humble opinion. 3. I believe that people have the right tochoose what to do with their bodies. 4. No one has the right to another person's body unless it is self defense or by consent.

Prochoice.

Side Score: 57
VS.

Prolife.

Side Score: 43
5 points

I am pro-choice because I don't believe it's my right to control another woman's reproductive organs for any reason. I believe that abortion should be available to all women as a safe, practical medical procedure to terminate an early pregnancy before the stages of birth outlined in the law. I believe it is necessary also to avoid at home abortions and unwanted rape pregnancies as well as out of country abortions. It is a fact that an early fetus is alive in that it is a group of living cells that maintain homeostasis, however I do not believe an undeveloped fetus is a person or is a human being with rights similar to my own and certainly it'not with more rights than the woman it's dependent on and the uterus it's in.

Side: Prochoice.

I am prochoice for largely the same reasons, and in addition to that for the overall welfare of children in the adoption and foster systems- these are already overloaded and poorly managed, and there are significantly more abortions per year than there are families interested in adoption total (including several who have been interested for several years). Throwing even more kids in that system, even if it COULD bear the load, would significantly reduce the resources available for the children already in the system- so in addition to assigning more value to the mother than to the potential child, I'm also assigning more value to actual children than potential ones.

Side: Prochoice.

Upvote .

Side: Prochoice.

Exactly. I agree. People who are prolife just want to control people.

Side: Prochoice.
Stickers(1037) Clarified Banned
1 point

Exactly. I agree. People who are prolife just want to control people.

Evidence ..?

Side: Prochoice.
3 points

I've been waiting for this debate to pop back. I am a person in favor of life, and an adult woman's choice of what to do with her body.

The biggest issue with abortion is this, people say it's a kid inside of her, and we're opting to kill it. I say okay, it's a life form, not necessarily a kid, but a life none the less and we *are ruling that she can kill it if she wants, but here's why.

A two second old pile of goo living inside a person is hardly a thing we should be trying to save, if the thing we could be losing is an already established person.

I began as believing it's not a life, but I was fooling myself, then I switched to it is a life, and it's okay to end it in some cases, but then I thought how one sided that is. These babies get to live because they weren't harming their mother, but these babies don't because they were. I've finally decided, in my own personal opinion, that all fetuses are worth less than that of their mother until birth, or at least an age where they can be removed. If they can't live without being attached to her, and she doesn't want to deal with that, as crude as it may sound, she shouldn't have to deal with that.

Side: Prochoice.
3 points

First trimester = YES

Side: Prochoice.

Thank you. I agree. .

Side: Prochoice.
2 points

I don't have any problems with abortion, provided that it's not past the 2nd trimester...

Of course I wouldn't call myself "prochoice" as it inaccurately describes my political views, and I don't personally believe that abortion is simply a matter of whether or not you support "choice".

Side: Prochoice.

What label do you prefer? .

Side: Prochoice.
Stickers(1037) Clarified Banned
1 point

Not-necessarily-against-abortion-ist

It has a nice ring to it .

Side: Prochoice.
2 points

I certainly am in no position to tell another person their plight is not as bad as they think it is or what they should do with their body. Valuing the fetus over a womans' choice is valuing 'chance' at life over womans current life.

A fetus of a certain stage is not a person. It represents possibilities of uncertain futures, it might not even make it to birth due to natural causes, it cannot feel it has no bran activity at a certain point. This is why we have a current timeframe that the abortion procedure can be preformed in. Once achieving brain functions though I feel it is reached a point where person hood has started or should be considered.

Opponents to abortion bring up late trimester abortions as if they are common place. However abortions after a certain point are pretty rare and are due to circumstance. Sometimes a persons rights or liberty can infringe on another persons if an inequality due to circumstance is imposed.

If Terry Schiavo (too soon?) and a healthy functional 20 year old needed a liver transplant it is a no brainer to who gets it.

If a healthy 20 year old and a healthy 30 year old both need the liver the choice gets a little more difficult.

We can easily see that the decision in one is easier than another. We should respect the living and functioning persons well being and future over the other who is merely a possibility.

Side: Prochoice.
2 points

In the following I will argue primarily from a utilitarian perspective.

Any position in the pro choice / pro life debate must take the into account the benefit and suffering associated with itself in relation to other positions. My contention is that a fetus, if taken care of early and taken care of compassionately, won't suffer when aborted. The fetus is indifferent since it doesn't have the faculties needed in order to experience its death. Therefore one should consider the parent in question, not just the fetus.

The pro life decision does a great deal harm to a parent who wants to abort. I don't want to imagine how it must be like to have a kid and not want to have it. The pro choice position only hurts pro lifers, and it does so by simply contradicting their belief. If we estimate that the suffering done to the fetus is negligible, it is blatantly obvious that the pro life position brings much more suffering into the world through immediate causes as opposed to the pro choice position. In relation to immediate causes, the pro choice position wins.

The pro choice position appeals extensively, if not exclusively, to the notion that human beings have intrinsic value. We may argue all we want about whether a fetus constitutes a human being, but I doubt such a discussion will ever be fruitful. I won't argue either way, I will simply take for granted that human beings as a matter of fact have intrinsic value. I will show how this principle implies that pro life is wrong.

then it seems beyond insanity to allow a child to be born that would otherwise have been aborted. What is life like to a child that would have been aborted? Are they generally loved as much as children who were never unwanted? I don't know any studies asking about the psychological consequences of being a child 'that would have been aborted', but I don't doubt that these children in general fare as good than those children who were always wanted. I do believe that they fare worse. If we accept that a fetus does have worth I don't see how that somehow implies that we should not treat it with compassion. If anything, this principle of worth implies the accept opposite. If a fetus has intrinsic value we must care a great deal about what is going to happen to it. If it is aborted it will experience no suffering, if it isn't aborted it has a certain risk of living a terrible life as an unloved child. Does this look like something we would do to anything we place a lot of value in?

If this is recognized as correct then immediately follows that the pro life position is cruel, doing harm to both the parent who doesn't want the child, and the child that isn't wanted. The pro life position simply harms by contradicting the beliefs of pro lifers, not resulting in anything but minor emotional obstacles. The pro choice position in fact isn't simply harmless, if the right to abortion becomes the consensus, abortion may be institutionalized and therefore safer than in countries without abortion rights such as Argentina, where teenagers will get their abortions on the black market by what may or may not be non-professionals. We know from the illegality of drugs that people won't stop taking drugs; similarly, people will continue getting abortions even if it is illegal.

Therefore, prolife brings great harm and possible physical danger to people, while prochoice prevents this physical danger as much as possible. For these reasons, I think prolife is much less humane than it initially seems, and should not be favored over prochoice. The prochoice position is the path leading to least suffering for everyone involved.

Side: Prochoice.

As long as it is early on in the pregnancy. I do not believe that a tiny lump that has a heart but no brain activity can be considered alive. However if it is possible for the baby to survive on the outside if born prematurely then it is wrong.

Side: Prochoice.

This is a dumb debate. Why don't we just say abortions are okay until the fuzzy period (I think it's somewhere around the third trimester) and be done?

Honestly though, do what makes you happy. Your country cares more about you before your born then after, at least the government. They only care about you after your born if your strong enough to join the military and be a soldier. That's what I think really matters.

Regardless of BEFORE your born, I think what people should really care about if AFTER your born. Obviously, a baby who just came out is a human being. So, if abortion is an issue, sure.

Why can't a woman abort a kid, especially if the girl is 16. A sixteen year old girl will probably give that kid away. Then, that kid will grow up wondering who their parents are. Then that kid will be miserable. Often times, they become drug abusers.

I know because I know one and he's a mess, just like a lot of other people who have that same problem. Is it always the case, no? Is it usually the case, yes. Very few of them are like Steve Jobs in any way.

Most of them are the emo/goth types who grow up to abuse drugs out of their misery of not knowing who their parents are.

Side: Prochoice.
Atrag(5666) Banned
3 points

"I am prochoice for a few reasons: 1. I feel it is wrong to force women to give birth. 2. Life begins at birth in my humble opinion. 3. I believe that people have the right tochoose what to do with their bodies. 4. No one has the right toanother person's body unless it is self defense or by consent."

According to to this, you would be okay with a baby 1 minute before birth being aborted, I find that abhorrent. If we are talking about a foetus over 25 weeks in gestation, and certainly if it is at full gestation, I am prolife. If we are talking about a foetus before 20 weeks, I'm prochoice. If we are talking about a fetus between 20 and 25 weeks, I'm not sure.

It is not all about the woman's rights. We have to consider at what stage in the gestation and foetus should be given the right to life. At birth is far too late. It is not so simple as you seem to believe.

Side: Prolife.
dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

"Life begins at birth in my humble opinion" <<< ha !!

you mean your (Dana) wilfull ignorant uneducated delusional arrogant opinion

....... show me where science agrees with you

Side: Prochoice.
Atrag(5666) Disputed Banned
4 points

You complete cretin. I was quoting Dana. I don't believe that.

Side: Prolife.
dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

whatever .... apply it to whoever the freak Dana is

.

The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ... The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible ...

Side: Prolife.
2 points

I am pro-life because its not the women's body but its the Baby's. If you don't want a baby then don't have sex. That Simple. I understand that its the women's body but once the Baby is alive inside the womb then the Body is no longer hers but its the Baby's body. Its the Women's body through free will and soul but not by authority. Her Body belongs to God rather you like it or not. Just a man's body belongs to God same it shall be for a women. The women is allowed to do what she wants with her body but once you kill a Baby in the womb then you are held accountable. Its a sin called Murder.

I understand that if she is raped, but sin is sin. Your job as a unintentional mother is to raise your child no matter what circumstance. God allows that to happen for a reason. All bad things are made good when God works out his plan. There is no good reason to murder a baby inside a womb. Murder is Murder. Your job would be to raise the baby to be a moral important person. To be exact, your job is to raise your child to be a mature Christian to serve Christ. You never know; maybe this Baby can lead you to Christ as it gets older. If worse comes to worse don't abort but send to an adoption center as the baby gets older. God allows things to happen so that it may come back to his Glorification. God will make good out of the baby that you do not abort the baby. Trust God and let God work in your life. Don't Abort but wait to see what God is going to do with you.

Side: Prolife.
1 point

If the person does get raped and get pregnant. They can also give up the baby for adoption and that baby can be raised in a Christian home.

Also I couldn't have said that better. Great argument!

Side: Prolife.
1 point

Hey lil bro, I mean this with love: I have serious problem with anyone who forces rape victims to give birth because it is traumatic for the victim.

Side: Prochoice.
1 point

It is the woman's body affected by the pregnancy, and it is the women who goes through the trauma of childbirth. Forced birth is violence against women.

Side: Prochoice.
Atrag(5666) Disputed Banned
1 point

So to you a foetus of full gestation can be killed if the woman wants it?

Side: Prolife.
1 point

I am pro-life because its not the women's body but its the Baby's

Um?

If you don't want a baby then don't have sex.

But... it's so good.... plus condoms and birth control sometimes don't work.

I understand that its the women's body but once the Baby is alive inside the womb then the Body is no longer hers but its the Baby's body

So... the woman's body become the baby's body? Wait WTF?!

Her Body belongs to God rather you like it or not.

God is a delusion you are experiencing to make yourself feel important in your rather unimportant pathetic piece-of-crap existence.

Just a man's body belongs to God same it shall be for a women

Why wouldn't it be the same? you seem to think that one may think it isn't the same for men and women; why?

The women is allowed to do what she wants with her body but once you kill a Baby in the womb then you are held accountable.

Sure.

Its a sin called Murder.

Hahahahahahahaha.

I understand that if she is raped, but sin is sin. Your job as a unintentional mother is to raise your child no matter what circumstance. God allows that to happen for a reason. All bad things are made good when God works out his plan.

So let's get this straight... it is part of god's plan for a woman to be brutally raped and for her to give birth and raise her rapist's child because "it will work out in the end" as it is, yet again, god's plan. Hhmm... GTFO.

There is no good reason to murder a baby inside a womb.

But say, for example, that the baby is going to be the next Hitler or the devil in-disguise, then it would be totally justifiable; wouldn't it?

Your job would be to raise the baby to be a moral important person.

Morality is subjective.

To be exact, your job is to raise your child to be a mature Christian to serve Christ.

And your job is to GTFO this site and tell the grand tale of god to people who are too stupid to recognize it's irrationality.

You never know; maybe this Baby can lead you to Christ as it gets older.

Tell that to a rape victim. Please, tell that to a rape victim.

If worse comes to worse don't abort but send to an adoption center as the baby gets older.

Please look at thousandin1's support for AveSatanas's argument on the other side of this debate.

God allows things to happen so that it may come back to his Glorification. God will make good out of the baby that you do not abort the baby. Trust God and let God work in your life. Don't Abort but wait to see what God is going to do with you.

JESUS FCKING CHRIST. YOU PIECE OF DELUSIONAL SHT. THERE IS NO F*CKING GOD. GTFO.

/endrage :D

Side: Prochoice.
1 point
Side: Prolife.
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
6 points

1) nobody gives a shit if God disagrees. Stop acting like your religion applies to everyone.

2) there's a big difference between when bei NH alive starts and when human life begins. He was arguing not that a fetus isn't alive before birth but that it is not yet a person. That is mostly opinion though so there is no real right or wrong answer.

3) your sources are shit. The first one is clearly pro-life biased and not an objective scientific source. The second is a fucking blog which has no real authority on the subject. And the 3rd is a database of aborted fetus pictures which makes you look like the biggest miopic prick ever. It validates the fact that you're a deluded asshole who's go to defence is shoving scare tactics down people's throats. Fuck you.

Side: Prochoice.
1 point

1. We are born again, not conceived again. 2. No one has the right to a another person's body. 3. forced birth traumatizes a woman. 4. Forced birth is slavery. 5. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Genesis 38:24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Side: Prochoice.
1 point

"I believe that people have the right to choose what to do with their bodies" ... using your body to murder another individuals body .... we call those people murderers and their accomplices

Side: Prolife.
1 point

The fetus is not entitled to a womans body. My body, my right, my choice.

Side: Prochoice.
dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

and you are are a deceived individual ....

abortion is the killing of a new human life ....

science has concluded

Side: Prolife.
dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

"The fetus is not entitled to a womans body. My body, my right, my choice." .....

.

We are told in Revelation 3 of the 7 Churches. The last church or church age is symbolized by the Church of Laodicea. Laodicea means "the rights of the people." Thus, this was a church governed by the will of the people, rather than the will of God. This is the church age from which the Antichrist and the False Prophet will emerge. It is the church age Paul talked about that would not endure sound doctrine, but would gather around them teachers that would say what their itching ears wanted and desired to hear (2 Tim 4:3). This church is described as lukewarm, indifferent, not concerned with right and wrong, or with good and evil. They take a neutral position: one of "live and let live; don’t rock the boat; and don’t cause waves." They are trying to serve two masters—God and self (or the world).

Side: Prolife.
Stickers(1037) Clarified Banned
1 point

Can you please explain to me why you even bother debating with Dana on this? You both know that you won't even come close to altering each other's views.

Side: Prochoice.
Atrag(5666) Banned
4 points

Also they don't debate. They just both say things that are completely unconnected with what the other said. They might as well be writing a monologue.

Side: Prolife.
1 point

Thank you. I agree with you. It will be fine. :)

Side: Prochoice.
1 point

1. I feel it is wrong to force women to give birth.

I agree. Though I don’t think this is what is being proposed by pro-life advocates. More of a conditional requirements for protecting the baby a woman isn't forced to conceive.

2. Life begins at birth in my humble opinion.

Opinions on the matter are irrelevant, there is no dispute within the science community that a fetus is alive.

3. I believe that people have the right tochoose what to do with their bodies.

A person’s freedom ends where another’s begins.

4. No one has the right toanother person's body unless it is self defense or by consent.

I would assert that even self-defense is no exception. But this does not bode well for people who have an abortion when doing so defies the right and consent of the offspring.

Abortion would not be as much of a problem if birth control was utilized and neglect wasn’t a factor resulting in conception. Having sex often results in conception, this is not a mystery, if a woman doesn’t want to conceive there are numerous methods to still enjoy sex while preventing fertilization.

Side: Prolife.
1 point

After the first trimester = No.

Side: Prolife.
Stickers(1037) Clarified Banned
1 point

Why do you not include the 2nd trimester ?

Side: Prochoice.
1 point

I don't know what the exact time frame should be, I just think it should be done as early as possible. If you can't make up your mind in the first three months then fuck you! You're having a baby.

Side: Prolife.

It amazes me how pro choice people say we have no right telling another person what to do with their bodies when it is abortion doing that very thing.... telling that other person (the late term baby) they have no right to life. There are two Bodies there, not just the mother's.

People say that they do not support abortion if the Baby has brain waves, etc. as in late term abortions yet they STILL vote for the very politicians who keep late term abortions legal for any reason(I'm not talking about life of mother exceptions, etc.). When you point out their shameless lack of caring and compassion for those healthy late term babies with healthy mothers, they then say they are not a one issue voter. Wow! Can you imagine if that were the response from a German during Hitler's time, when saying they supported the Nazi party. Imagine if the German said I personally do not believe in killing Jewish people in concentration camps but I'm not a one issue voter. On other issues I align myself more with the Nazi party. Would that excuse satisfy you? Since when did the life of an innocent late term Baby become a secondary issue when we vote for our politicians? Has innocent life taken a back seat to Government subsidies? The Democrat Party supports late term abortions for any reason, but they will only talk about life of mother exceptions, etc.

Before I hear all the same excuses of how late term abortions are only in extreme cases, I ask you is a Special Olympic child extreme? Doctors testified in Congress that Down Syndrome babies were the majority of late term abortions. So tell me do you support late term abortions for healthy children with brain waves who some day might compete in Special Olympics? Does your argument that you are not a one issue voter when it comes to late term abortions with healthy babies & mothers hold any water at all? It holds about as much water as the German's excuse did.

Side: Prolife.
1 point

You seem to be under the impression that hordes of women are running out to get their late-term abortions while supplies last so they can fit into that cute little black dress for going clubbing this weekend.

Couple of notes:

1) 99% of abortions happen before 20 weeks (in fact, there are only 4 doctors in the whole country that perform third trimester abortions)

2) 18-20 weeks is the recommended gestation for getting an ultrasound which may discover major abnormalities; late-term abortions are often pregnancies where the mother does want the child.

3) Support vs legality. Many people may chose not to get an abortion and would advise people against it in nearly all cases, yet would still not want there to be a law against it. (pro-life/pro-choice is a false dichotomy)

4) Who should be the one deciding how much pain or organ damage is enough to justify each abortion? The same overly-invasive "BIG GOVERNMENT" that you deride?

Side: Prochoice.