CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
You can share this debate in three different ways:
#1
#2
#3
Paste this URL into an email or IM:
Click here to send this debate via your default email application.
Click here to login and CreateDebate will send an email for you.
Atheist bs fallacies
Atheist logic 101-
1)Will demonize the believer and tell them you can be "good" without belief.
A)As if they are actually "good" or can even define "good" with atheism.
B)As if anyone's thoughts and motives are "good".
*Then they use profanity towards the believer and/or get mad at the believer for opposing their position and say "that's not very Christian". (Indicating that "a real Christian" has some kind of moral highground or "higher standard" to meet.)
2)I don't like God, so he isn't there.
*I don't like brussel sprouts, but... there they are.
3)Many say they hate or are anti-religion and attack Christianity.
*Do not hesitate to ally With Islam politically and then pander to it and protect it vigorously.
4)Say they "Have a lack of belief".
*Many are quick to become Wiccans, Satanists, or get involved with Witchcraft, even stating "there's something to it".
*They also live and breathe religion, filling their life with it, probably to convince themselves at all costs.
1)Will demonize the believer and tell them you can be "good" without belief.
Then they use profanity towards the believer and/or get mad at the believer for opposing their position and say "that's not very Christian". (Indicating that "a real Christian" has some kind of moral highground or "higher standard" to meet.)
A real Christian has a moral high ground over a fake Christian. That does not indicate that a real Christian has a moral high ground over an atheist. Your fear of words is ridiculous, too.
2)I don't like God, so he isn't there.
I don't like brussel sprouts, but... there they are.
Atheists don't think that way. You are actually committing the strawman fallacy here.
3)Many say they hate or are anti-religion and attack Christianity.
Do not hesitate to ally With Islam politically and then pander to it and protect it vigorously.
As you pointed out, the leading atheists think the exact opposite way you portray atheists.
-----Many are quick to become Wiccans, Satanists, or get involved with Witchcraft, even stating "there's something to it".
You don't understand atheism. Perhaps you don't understand those 3 things either.-----
Nope. Actually I've debated all 4 for 20 years, and they all have the same temperment and use the same language. Would you like to continue? No? I didn't think so.
If I didn't think u were a kid, I'd tell u to go screw yourself. But since, I'm sure you are, here it is. Because u need help beyond measure. Now stop being a scavenger. It reaks.
-----A real Christian has a moral high ground over a fake Christian-----
There are atheists who pretend to be Christians (meaning they are "fake Christians"), thus you openly admit that a "real Christian" has the moral highground on Atheists per your own admission.
-----A real Christian has a moral high ground over a fake Christian. That does not indicate that a real Christian has a moral high ground over an atheist. Your fear of words is ridiculous, too.-----
1)There is no real Christian vs fake Christian in Atheism. It's a myth that you created to feel better in order to have no conscience about doing "ungodly things".
2)You are obviously not educatexd on "saved by grace" in the Bible or what it even means.
3)Your assessment admits or declares that a "real Christian" has the "moral highground" on everyone. Why? A real Christian, per your terms, would have the fear of God to prevent an immoral action, where a "good Atheist" sees no retrobution for his or her actions. Guess who is more likely to not do "the bad thing".
No. Truth to you is Atheism and Darwinism which do not adhere to any Christian version of morality. Christianty overpowers darwinism by the spirit. Atheism doesn't believe in any spirit. It believes we evolved and this is just what we are.
And? We got here by being the meanest, nastiest, most evil predator there is, and we survived. So don't condemme for my biology. Don't condemn me for being the survivor in your biological game. Blame darwinism. Because pricks, jerks, and trogladites can only survive in YOUR belief system, not mine. Off ya go.
)Your assessment admits or declares that a "real Christian" has the "moral highground" on everyone.
That's fucking dumb. My assessment clearly didn't say that.
Why? A real Christian, per your terms, would have the fear of God to prevent an immoral action, where a "good Atheist" sees no retrobution for his or her actions.
I made no mention of fear of God. A real Christian is someone who follows what Christianity teaches. You don't need the fear of God to see the retribution of your actions, so your bullshit conclusion about atheists is wrong.
Guess who is more likely to not do "the bad thing".
It's atheists. Maybe instead of guessing you should start knowing.
So you've given me the moral highground per your own rhetoric. That was easy. And heck that's just you vs me. I didn't have you compare yourself to Adrian Rogers.
Atheists don't believe morality exists nor do they believe in a moral authority, thus your claims are false ...according to yourself. Being moral wouldn't help you survive in Darwinian theory. It'd get you killed off.
Wrong. If Darwinism and survival of the fittest are true, you have invented a new religion that defies it. Being nice or cordial means... you die, in darwinism. Animals have no morality, and that's why they survived in darwinian theory. Anything else?
If Darwinism and survival of the fittest are true, you have invented a new religion that defies it.
We take immoral people out of society with our punishments. You can only be fit to stay in the society if you are moral. Darwinism and morality are not in conflict.
Being nice or cordial means... you die, in darwinism.
It doesn't though. If you can't get along with the other members of your species you can't reproduce.
Animals have no morality, and that's why they survived in darwinian theory.
They have the ability to interact with the rest of their species. That's what morality provides to humans.
Wrong. Not in Islam. In Saudi Arabia they behead you for being your version of moral. You've invented some hybrid Atheism morality that defies Darwism. Killing and destroying wins. That is Darwinism. And that's
why Islam will take over. Is this really that mind boggling to you? Everyone I know thinks it's common sense.
Don't get pissed off because I'm using your Atheist naturalistic and biological version of morality. You can't claim Christianity's morality as an atheist then demonize Christianity. Your morality is Darwinism andnaturalism which is not "Christian morality". Off ya go.
There is no morality. Show us how biology cares about morality. No? I didn't think so. Biology is all you have. You don't have any "moral code". Do you think lions have a moral code in a field full of white tailed dear? What?
-----Animals have no morality, and that's why they survived in darwinian theory.
They have the ability to interact with the rest of their species. That's what morality provides to humans.-----
Not really. Muhammed, Alexander the great, etc didn't conquer the world by being cordial. They killed everyone in their way. That's Darwinism. That's what you believe in. No purpose, no meaning, just pitiless indifference. I rest my case. You're beyond cooked and done. Off ya go.
-----I made no mention of fear of God. A real Christian is someone who follows what Christianity teaches. You don't need the fear of God to see the retribution of your actions, so your bullshit conclusion about atheists is wrong.-----
Oh? Tell us what the Bible says about being saved by faith through grace and by faith alone. Then tell us how trying to justify yourself by the law means "you have fallen from grace".
Then tell us how an Atheist could possibly be more "moral" than someone who actually belives there is a judgement.
Then they use profanity towards the believer and/or get mad at the believer for opposing their position and say "that's not very Christian". (Indicating that "a real Christian" has some kind of moral high ground or "higher standard" to meet.)
Christians give themselves a moral high ground. For atheists, there's nothing wrong with using profanity; they're just words. Christians however, must follow the Bible which says it's a sin to use such language; so yes, you have a higher standard to meet.
2)I don't like God, so he isn't there.
So it's not that leprechauns and unicorns don't exist, you just don't like them?
I don't like Brussels sprouts, but... there they are.
Brussels sprouts have been demonstrated to exist (and are delicious, btw), whereas your God has not.
3)Many say they hate or are anti-religion and attack Christianity.
Do not hesitate to ally With Islam politically and then pander to it and protect it vigorously.
I hate both religions equally.
4)Say they "Have a lack of believe".
-Many are quick to become Wiccans, Satanists, or get involved with Witchcraft, even stating "there's something to it".
-They also live and breathe religion, filling their life with it, probably to convince themselves at all costs.
No, I say I have a lack of belief. Lack of believe doesn't make grammatical sense. Those who claim to be atheists but involve themselves with so-called supernatural practices do not represent atheists as a whole. If you can't accept that, I have no choice but to consider you the same as Christians from Westboro.
-----Christians give themselves a moral high ground. For atheists, there's nothing wrong with using profanity; they're just words. Christians however, must follow the Bible which says it's a sin to use such language; so yes, you have a higher standard to meet.-----
Not actually. Show us in the Bible where we cannot curse. I'll show you Saint Peter actually doing it.
"But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth." Colossians 3:8
"From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so." James 3:10
"If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless." James 1:26
"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." Ephesians 4:29
Or, if despite the verses I provided, you're still convinced cursing is fine, go ahead and curse. Why use it as an example if you see nothing wrong with it?
So it's not that leprechauns and unicorns don't exist, you just don't like them?-----
No. I've said nothing about leprechauns or fairies because I couldn't care less. On the other hand Atheists are obsessed withGod and csan't stop talking about him.
I know what it claims to be. I've watched it contradict what it claims to be. Atheist churches, sermons, passing out of pamphlets, and actually trying to get converts contradicts its own claims. It's become a dogma.
Atheist churches, sermons, passing out of pamphlets, and actually trying to get converts contradicts its own claims.
Considering you don't understand what this atheist "church" is (it's not actually a church, that's just how the confused media portray it as), none of it is contradictory. Very few of those that attend actually identify as atheist, and when you consider how many of those that do attend grew up in church, it's only smart to offer an alternative. It offers a place for people to congregate together who share common interests, but unlike actual churches, there's no worshiping. Trying to get "converts" also doesn't contradict anything. Our eyes have been opened to reality, we're finally free from the religious dogma - why wouldn't we want others to experience the same?
No. It itself calls itself an "atheist church" and? I've watched their sermons. It's full blown dogmatic indoctrintation. They sing songs, pay tithes, everything. Go watch one.
Yes, we hate it when people use propaganda and brainwashing to teach kids that nothing can create something in an attempt to justify having no moral authority. Isn't that child abuse?
Indoctrination into fairy tales is child abuse. Teaching children that which cannot be proven as fact is abuse. Teaching children to hate those who are different than them is abuse. Teaching children the immorality of the Bible is abuse.
So prove to us that nothing created something and please don't tell us you plan on or did indoctrinate your children with something you couldn't prove. That'd be child abuse. Ask an Atheist. Giving them no hope and a negative worldview is obviously the way to go. You're right...
In real life, on planet Earth, teaching a child THIS is child abuse.
And do you know how I know that it's child abuse. Because a negative, self hating, toxic Atheist taught it to me as a child, and it took me decades to get that crap out of my brain. Don't tell me what abuse is.
That which is created is a creation, is it not? I do not believe our universe to be a creation therefore does not require a creator.
please don't tell us you plan on or did indoctrinate your children with something you couldn't prove.
Nope, I don't teach my children that which cannot be proven. If it's something I don't know, the only honest answer is just that.
Giving them no hope and a negative worldview is obviously the way to go.
Facts don't care about feelings. What would I teach my children? That there is a God that - despite what the Bible shows about him - is all loving and powerful? I've said it before, the God of the Bible is a sick, maniacal dick. No. Instead, I'm teaching them to look for the good in people, regardless of who they vote for, the gender they're attracted to, the color of someone's skin, etc... I'm teaching them to think for themselves and to question anything. There's a reason Christianity teaches it's followers to have the faith of a child; they're easily manipulated and easily believe without reason. I'm teaching my children to seek that reason.
I also have a much better worldview as an atheist than I ever did as a Christian.
Teaching children to hate Nazis and people who want to kill us is abuse? Hmmm.. Darwinism must be wrong. Last I checked, fear was our greatest survival instinct. Are you now a theist?
You're an idiot if you think that's what I was referring to. Hating those who want to kill you isn't because they're different, it's a matter of self preservation. You know damn well I'm referring to hating people just because they might be attracted to people of the same sex, or hating people just because their skin color is different.
2)The right conceded this war, and doesn't really care. That's how Trump got elected with his pro gay stance.
3)You know full well I'm talking about those commanded to infiltrate our political system per taqiyya, and are commanded to slaughter every last one of us in the "Holy Quran".
Good for you. Most from the religious right don't feel the same as you. Go to The Blaze and check out the comment section for anything regarding homosexuality.
2)The right conceded this war, and doesn't really care.
No, they most certainly do care as I mentioned above.
That's how Trump got elected with his pro gay stance.
No, the right voted for Trump simply because he wasn't Hillary. He was the lesser of two evils.
3)You know full well I'm talking about those commanded to infiltrate our political system per taqiyya, and are commanded to slaughter every last one of us in the "Holy Quran".
I know what you're talking about? I'm the one that brought it up. As it stands, I've already said I hate Islam.
I actually go to a large church. We don't talk about gay people, nor do we care. You've created a strawman to make you think you are right. Most on the right couldn't care less. If they did, gays would never gotten gay marriage through without riots in the streets by the millions. We never saw it because you have indoctrinated yourself to thing the right is a certain way. I know no one who is anti gay. Not one single person.
I actually go to a large church. We don't talk about gay people, nor do we care.
We all know how people act in church compared to behind closed doors. Don't forget, I spent over 30 years as a Christian and since I've only been an atheist for about 3 years, I'm not far removed from what goes on in it. My entire family is also Christian and I know their thoughts on the matter. Look at the outrage over a gay character in Beauty and the Beast and tell me people don't care. You're diluted if you believe that.
I know no one who is anti gay. Not one single person.
You don't strike me as someone who knows many people.
3)No. We voted for Trump not knowing who his opponent would even be. Then we repudiated the left's version of virtue coming from winning the oppression olympics where being oppressed is the only way to obtain any status. Safe spaces, gender pronouns and therapy dogs were not the trench that the left should have been willing to die in. There's nothing left on the left for a true liberal. They pushed us out. A liberal protects free speech, protects feminism, and lifts up minorities. The new left calls non-liberal blacks "uncle toms", allied with a death cult that kills gays and oppresses women on a level beyond the pale, and has silenced all and any speakers it could with violence and riots that didn't agree with their worldview. THAT manifested Donald Trump.
I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd see the day where the right had to protect gays and women from the left's mindless politics, but I did.
3)No. We voted for Trump not knowing who his opponent would even be.
How could you vote without knowing your choices?
Safe spaces, gender pronouns and therapy dogs were not the trench that the left should have been willing to die in.
Agreed
There's nothing left on the left for a true liberal.
I also agree with this. I'll tell ya, if you want to continue this debate, politics isn't the way to go since we'll see eye to eye on a lot of it.
A liberal protects free speech, protects feminism, and lifts up minorities. The new left calls non-liberal blacks "uncle toms", allied with a death cult that kills gays and oppresses women on a level beyond the pale, and has silenced all and any speakers it could with violence and riots that didn't agree with their worldview. THAT manifested Donald Trump.
When we picked our nominee Bernie was still on the left's ticket. It was Trump vs 17 other Republicans. We picked him, without her in the picture because he was the angel of death to the toxic identity politics of the left. The left got used to bully tactics. We tossed them our own version of the snake and they are now flummixed. Good. Maybe they'll move back to the middle where sanity reigns.
Uh huh. If that were true, and you actually had any notion to care about actually knowing, you would have clicked on the site I have provided every single day on here. And? You never have. It shows me, because I run the site. I can see who's been on it, what they've been on, and how long, etc etc. Anything else?
If that were true, and you actually had any notion to care about actually knowing, you would have clicked on the site I have provided every single day on here.
As I've stated, if you cared for people to actually see it you wouldn't fight them when they tell you to post it here.
You never have. It shows me, because I run the site.
You're a liar. Even if anyone here did visit your cute little Facebook page, AND even if it did show you who visited, how many people use aliases like we do here? You really think I exist as Sylynn on Facebook?
so I know you didn't look. My genius must seem like magic to you. Would you like me to pull a rabbit out of my ass?
As I've said before, I did look once in the past, but like I said, since I don't use the same alias there, you have no idea. Either way, you don't care if anyone actually sees it or not. The majority of my professional life has been in sales. Your goal isn't to get people in front of your product or service, it's to get your product or service in front of the people. If I refused to give my prospects what they ask for and just keep shoving a web link down their throat, I'd be out of business quite fast.
-----No, I say I have a lack of belief. Lack of believe doesn't make grammatical sense. Those who claim to be atheists but involve themselves with so-called supernatural practices do not represent atheists as a whole. If you can't accept that, I have no choice but to consider you the same as Christians from Westboro.-----
Actually atheist witchcraft is the fastest growing religion in the U.S. Google it.
You don't want to know what I used to be like. It'd take your narrative into the abyss. And I know firsthand what many "Atheists" like to dabble with. That's why I'm a bit trickier for you than your typical believer. I called them. God haters. The God haters sometimes try to just wish God away, but many openly choose to oppose him. It's all the same general clan.
Well I was raised by Atheist parents. Don't create it, then reject it and claim to hate it. I'm what happens when Atheists indoctrinate a child, then that child grows up to resent Atheism because Atheism is teaching a child to hate and be cynical towards life.
I'm not teaching my children to be atheists. I'm simply teaching them to determine for themselves what's true and to not simply accept something as true without good reason and evidence.
I'm what happens when Atheists indoctrinate a child, then that child grows up to resent Atheism.
I'm what happens when Christians indoctrinate a child, then that child grows up to resent religion.
Which means you are teaching them to become Atheists. I've heard these exact words and? My parents indoctrinated me to be an Atheist. Please explain to me what good comes from teaching a child there is no purpose or meaning to life when you may be wrong.
If you hated religion your clan wouldn't live it and breathe it on a level that puts believers to shame. You hate something, but it isn't religion.
If you hate something that gives most people hope, your worldview is completely backwards. Explain to us the benefit of Atheism to the hierarchy of psychological needs.
Why look when you can't seem to present anything here? You've started plenty of debates that disproving one thing some how proves God; such arguments are complete crap. If you want to sell an idea you can't simply say, "I know I sound like a moron here, but I run this other site (it's not a site, it's a Facebook page) that has better info." If I were buying a car and was told it's only running on 3 cylinders, the clutch sticks, the heater doesn't work and the suspension is shot, but the salesman still said, "trust me, you'll love it", there's no way i'm buying it. Yet here you are, trying to do the same thing.
There is no unconditional love nor any objective meaning or purpose with atheism.
Unconditional love isn't one of the needs. Love is, but being unconditional is not specified. Either way, I disagree that it doesn't exist with atheism. My love for my children is unconditional. There is absolutely nothing they could do to make me stop loving them.
With regards to meaning or purpose, as I've stated before, you give yourself meaning and purpose. Of course there's no objective meaning or purpose. Even in Christianity people claim to be called to do all sorts of things; whether religious or not, it's always subjective. Your claims are demonstrably untrue.
1)You don't know that. You are coming to an unknown conclusion.
There's no evidence to suggest otherwise.
2)Placebo pills actually work to heal conditions.
So even if it isn't true, so what? You're encouraging people to be delusional. Aside from that, other than "hope", what good really comes from religion? They claim they want to help those in need, yet churches in the US alone bring in more than double what it would take to end world hunger. Of course if they did that churches wouldn't be able to afford their fancy lighting, marble floors and pillars, statues of saints (graven images I might add), or the obscene salaries of some of these pastors. The only hope churches are interested in giving others is the idea of something else after death; they couldn't care less about giving people hope for in this life.
1)Will demonize the believer and tell them you can be "good" without belief.
If any person says "my opponent is bad, therefor their argument is bad," you know, like you're doing here, that's the ad hominem fallacy. It's not specific to atheists to theists. And it's not universal for either.
And do you argue that it's impossible to be "good" if you lack belief in God?
2)I don't like God, so he isn't there.
Anyone who says that they don't like God is implying that they think God exists. Meaning that they aren't an atheist.
3)Many say they hate or are anti-religion and attack Christianity.
That's not a fallacy.
There's a difference in allying with Islam and allying with Muslims.
4)Say they "Have a lack of believe".
Many are quick to become Wiccans, Satanists, or get involved with Witchcraft, even stating "there's something to it".
They also live and breathe religion, filling their life with it, probably to convince themselves at all costs.
1)Will demonize the believer and tell them you can be "good" without belief.
Me: Demonize? We atheists don't believe in such things either. You can choose to be good with or without belief. There are good christians like Martin Luther King Jr., and bad christians like Adolf Hitler; there are good muslims like Malcom X and bad ones like Osama bin Laden; also there are ethical people without belief like Bill Gates vs. unethical ones like Stalin.
Your beliefs don't determine the person you are, your actions do.
2)I don't like God, so he isn't there.
ME: I was not born to believe in god, I have never liked or disliked god, BECAUSE there isn't one. I don't like your god as much as I don't like Paul's imaginary blue pink sheep.
3)Many say they hate or are anti-religion and attack Christianity.
ME: Anti-religion doesn't necessarily mean attacking one. You know, science provides us with all the reason and evidence to believe, while religion is just a book without actual proof, so "faith". I'm against religion because it teaches people to be satisfied with not knowing the whole world, I'm not attacking religion - I'm describing it.
4)Say they "Have a lack of belief".
True, atheism as defines in almost all dictionaries are "lack of belief in a god or gods". It's the amount of certainty one has as an atheist, in the absolute scale. If I speak it from the relative scale you may understand better. You christians don't believe in allah, so muslims consider you atheists to their religion. Vice versa also can. We atheists lack belief in just 1 more god than you.
1)Morality is subjective to an atheist. Objective mprality doesn't exist.
2)If a God exists he determines what is "good" or "bad"
3)The parts tha atheists claim are "bad" aren't actually "bad". Atheists usually don't even know the story they are attacking. They are parroting what an atheist apologetics site claims falsely.
Sure, not believing is your choice. You just need to explain how matter can make an immortal omnipotent deity and through the ontological argument, it can become a definitive proof for God.
Though, you know, theism is already about not liking that life can arise from matter.
1)There is no such thing as nothing. It's an atheist mythological concept to "fill in the gaps" and replace God.
2)I don't have to prove what He's composed of or "where he is at". The man who painted my house, I never met him nor do I know where he lives, but nonetheless, he still exists.
Therefore, God is composed of something. Now, you just have to show that such a thing exists that can make an omnipotent entity. And that it can come about in such a way under operations of pure probability.
That's because the man who paints your walls isn't self caused and non physical - if he was, then you should be worried rather than so certain about it.
Nope. I have no way to know the "laws" of "where God is at" or if any such concept is meaningless to Him. You need a naturalistic answer based on the laws of this reality, and there is none.
I provide an answer that doesn't need an explanation that is based on the laws of this reality.
In your equation you need:
Reality = x
If you cannot provide "x", then you provide no answer.
In my equation it can be:
Reality = "y"
Reality = xyz
Reality = ?
It doesn't matter because my answer is unknowable. We don't know the laws of Jim the painter. Jim is simply the answer. You on the other hand must provide a Jim the painter that can be explained.
You need a naturalistic answer based on the laws of this reality, and there is none.
I need only a physical answer. You need more, because you carry multiple types of realities with you, where omnipotent entities can come to exist in at least one of them.
Jim is never the answer, for it means nothing. If you say that you can never know about Jim, then it makes no sense that you should pick up some book that talks about his painting adventures, over any other possible (and, here, even existing) set, and expect it to be true.
----I need only a physical answer. You need more, because you carry multiple types of realities with you, where omnipotent entities can come to exist in at least one of them----
1)You don't have a physical answer.
2)Multiple entities is irrelevant because 2 things are never exactly the same, and God is simply the greatest of all entities, if even only by a small measure.
2)Multiple entities is irrelevant because 2 things are never exactly the same, and God is simply the greatest of all entities, if even only by a small measure.
3)The greatest group of entities have hive mind.
Doesn't change anything. Because, okay, let's say that they would have a hive mind.
-----Foesn't change anything. Because, okay, let's say that they would have a hive mind-----
Hive mind means that all entities in the hive do and think and react based off of the will of the leader, so all "entities" would simply be arms of the leader in thought, purpose, and desire.
Come on now JatinNagpal. We need an answer on this one. We need a physical "first cause". The naturalistic "first unmoved mover". Show it to us or atheism is not the "logical answer", but the "illogical answer".
Due to the negative potential provided by gravity, the universe can be self caused.
Also, as nothing can't exist, something had to. So universes coming into existence, and probably even going out, wouldn't be a rare event on the cosmic timescale.
Though we can answer that, even if we couldn't, the physical answer is over. It just had to be to a few final theories, or preferably one. The current most popular contender is the M-theory, or, as much as people know it, the string theory.
It'd be more valid if we would around to notice a universe that couldn't lead to our lives.
But since we're around, it grants that at least one universe could. Due to the general theory of relativity, it's unlikely that we will ever be able to look out. Not in a million years, at least.
----Therefore, God is composed of something. -----
We do not even know what "being composed of something" means in a different reality. It's like the Sims assuming that you are composed of binary computer code.
The sims wouldn't know that they're composed of binary.
Anyway, if God contains no matter but something else, it follows that he also is composed of all the transitionary things. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to create or interact.
If the Sims had enough time they would figure out that they are composed of binary and assume everything is, if they were atheist Sims. And they'd be wrong.
-----Now, you just have to show that such a thing exists that can make an omnipotent entity.----
We know it exists. The findings of James Gates and others proves it. We can see the effects of the wind in their findings. We just can't see the wind itself. But we know the wind is there. With their findings we can see the effects of the creator. We just can't see the creator himself.
In reality beyond our reality, all things that can exist, do exist, all paths, all possibilities, all times, etc. We are simply the material manifestation of one of those paths.
God is simply the highest possible thing that can be, thus is God by default.
If the Muslims aren't secular, then they wouldn't be part of the defended.
Really, if it were up to me, I'd have all immigrants say that there is no God, or vow to one of the religions in my list (which doesn't include Islam).
Can't be trusting those who take a random fairytale they don't really know about too seriously which even contains some dangerous verses and is dogmatic.
