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Debate Score:66
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Logically(192) pic



Do Atheists/agnostics have superior moral compasses?

Self-proclaimed atheists and agnostics make up about 7% of the U.S. population, but only 0.1% of the federal prison population. Christians, however, make up around 70% of the U.S population and nearly 65% of the prison population. But I've still heard from many Christians that you can't be a decent person without God; thoughts?
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3 points

While I don't think it is necessary to have God in your life to be a good person, I also don't think anyone has a superior moral compass. I've known some Christians who used religion to do bad things, and some Christians who do great things and thank God for their ability to do so. Same goes for atheists. I think it depends on the person, not the belief or lack of.

1 point

Yeah same as Muslims can be a terrorist and can be not 😉😏

1 point

Maybe they won't be a terrorist, but a majority of Muslims in Islamic countries support Sharia law.

2 points

As an Atheist, I would never claim to have a "superior moral compass". I WOULD say mine is superior to SOME self-designated "Christians". No problem, even for a sinner like ME. ;-) As Gandhi said: "I like your Christ, it's your Christians I don't like, your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Exactly the way I feel (ABOUT MANY) "Christians", certainly NOT the majority! Many don't even deserve to live in this country if they can't accept the Constitution and separation of church and state!

My morals say "Don't hurt anyone", and "Let people believe what they believe". "Follow society's rules (not the rules of a particular religion) and, "Treat others with respect" (as long as they respect you!). Basically the "golden rule" ... which I admit to have strayed from, now and then. We all make mistakes (except Now-a-Saint). ;-)

LoveU(348) Disputed
1 point

"Let people believe what they believe"

What if people believe it's alright to kill?

AlofRI(2798) Clarified
1 point

( I ), believe we were talking about religion and "gods" here, not criminals .... with inferior moral compasses.

2 points

Atheists/agnostics have superior moral compasses.

Generally, people's 'moral fiber' is independent of political and/or religious beliefs. One has to evaluate each individual separately from group identity

Logically(192) Disputed
1 point

Generally, people's 'moral fiber' is independent of political and/or religious beliefs.

This is very untrue. Looking at religious history or current events even briefly will show that religion plays a huge role in most peoples' ability to determine right from wrong. Murder is generally accepted as wrong around the world; but what of the Crusades? Slaughters upon slaughters for no reason other than the church saying "God wants us to. If you do, you go to heaven!" The same with current events; 9/11, suicide bombers and arsonists; people are willing to give their lives and sacrifice innocents in the name of their God and with the belief that they will be secured a blissful afterlife in doing so.

The ideas and beliefs that tie into religion affect the integrity of an individuals' morality quite seriously. When given the prospect that you'll live in eternal bliss after you die, murdering a few people almost seems worth it(to many, many people).

xMathFanx(1742) Disputed
1 point

@Logically

This is very untrue.

Wrong

Looking at religious history or current events even briefly will show that religion plays a huge role in most peoples' ability to determine right from wrong.

Religion is but one amongst many ideological maps to view the truth/false value of the world from; you are putting far too much emphasis on this. Also, one could simply point out that, like chimpanzees, humans are territorial & 'protect' their territories/tribes by force, often in over-reaching and irrational manners. Hence, so much for the religious argument.

As for 'moral fiber', it is indeed (largely) independent of peoples political & religious views, as this reaches the 'core' of the person's 'moral backbone' (or lack thereof), while political & religious ideologies are more toward the surface level.

Consider, in a 'Twilight Zone' scenario, if you woke up tomorrow as the Elephant Man, Quasimodo, a Leper, ect., then you would be treated indistinguishably from such people/characters. The number of people who would have any real empathy and/or respect for you would be hyper-rare, approximately between 1 in 100 to 1 in 1000. The rest would 'instinctively' behave like sociopathic chimpanzees, with perhaps a few percent in the 'grey' area (moral ambivalence). What you would find is that where people fall on that spectrum is independent of their professed political and/or religious views--even if they way they behave contradicts those stated views. As, again, true 'moral fiber' is in reference to the 'core' of a person, not the more surface level manifestations in the form of any particular ideologies.

Is Atheism/Agnosticism Relevant Here?

Christians, however, make up around 70% of the U.S population and nearly 65% of the prison population.

I'd assume most Christians in prison are Christians that became Christian in prison, because a lot of prisoners, I assume, want god to forgive them for their sins or something of the sort. As for the small Atheist/Agnostic prison population, maybe some prisoners just gave up hope, or they didn't believe in god at all.

Logically(192) Disputed
1 point

most Christians in prison are Christians that became Christian in prison

This isn't the case in the study I got these numbers from. They only accounted for affiliations that were unchanged since being incarcerated.

AlofRI(2798) Clarified
1 point

Gee, gadfly, that's twice we have agreed lately! Things are looking up! ;-)

Never in my life did I imagine this would happen.

-------------------------------------------------------

1 point

prisoners just gave up hope

Yeah even prisoners ask for hope but how could they have it if people wish their death, don't give them chances and speak hatred. That's why sometimes they're unmotivated to change. They knew they did something wrong but there's no one to forgive them unlike Christians..Seriously bro, you understand the inmate but you still agree on killing them

1 point

how could they have it if people wish their death, don't give them chances and speak hatred

Some prisoners don't deserve hope. People like Nikolas Cruz, Bill Cosby, and James Holmes did terrible things and shouldn't be given a single ounce of hope.

They knew they did something wrong but there's no one to forgive them

Because in most circumstances, at least in my eyes, they don't deserve salvation or forgiveness. They knew what they did was illegal.

you understand the inmate but you still agree on killing them

Yes, for those who deserve it. I've stated before that I don't believe that if you stole something, you should be put to death by firing squad.

2 points

It’s about the handing off of ones responsibility to someone or something else, it’s not my fault, god made me this way, it’s not me doing some horrible action, it’s god who is guiding me, so it must be justified.

When people grow up, they have to generate moral codes for themselves based on societal norms, and culture. When someone follows the moral codes of gods making, they are negating 3000 years of progress. It shows in the statistics.

2 points

It is possible that this is just correlation and not causation. It could be that the type of people who become atheists/agnostics are also the type of people not to break the law. This (on its own) doesn't mean that believing in God causes immoral behavior or anything like that.

In my experience it depends on the person, not their religious beliefs.

1 point

I'm quite sure that both the controller of the goblin/gremlin alts (factmachine/sv3rige/winklepicker/intangible) and the controller of the hellno alts (nomenclature/quantumhead/Cartman/outlaw/slapshot) are both hardline atheists.

Guitarguy/fromwithin/brontoraptor/nowasaint/saintnow is Christian.

In the end you can judge their morals.

This is a wrongfully banned user, prodigy/prodigee/goodlistener/instig8or signing out.

Logically(192) Disputed
2 points

The dance of alts you regular members have is pretty childish, frankly. Also, anecdotal evidence is the weakest form thereof; Just because you know an atheist or two that you detest doesn't change the overall trend. Saying we should judge Christian vs Atheist morality based off of 4 people is one of the least scientific ways to do it.

IllIl(27) Clarified
1 point

I thank you for your input. Do you have other test subjects in mind?

1 point

Also factmachine is most likely micmacmoc and his band of alts but he acted more polite back then.

1 point

I highly doubt the authenticity of those numbers .

1 point

If you are looking at people, you aren't really paying attention to what scripture says. There is nothing in scripture that says that people are good. In fact, scripture makes it pretty clear that people are not good. There is One that is good, and that is God.

The faith is not about being a "good" person. The faith is about recognizing your own faults, getting some humility from that realization, and showing others charity as you have been shown charity. The faith is about keeping it real, recognizing that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, and loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

Is discernment a gift of the spirit? Certainly. Those who love the truth will be more in line with the truth when they make moral decisions. Those who bow down to idols will allow their idols to corrupt the truth that they do cling on to.

Atheism has no command to love its enemy. It isn't required to love at all.

Ironically most Atheists are liberals and most Christian criminals are too. Birds of a feather. The atheists and the fakes.

Logically(192) Disputed
1 point

Atheism has no command to stone unruly children, kill homosexuals, or teach children they'll spend eternity in pain and agony if they do certain very specific things, including working on Sunday.

1 point

The connection between criminality and morality seems tenuous to me, particularly given the questionable ethical legitimacy of the criminal justice system itself.

Nor is there any such thing as a "superior" moral compass. There's a plethora of moralities, and none of them are objectively better than any of the others.

outlaw60(15500) Disputed
1 point

You said what Progressive ??????

No such thing as a criminal in your world now is it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jace(4706) Disputed
1 point

"Criminal" still exists as a concept. But it's just a designation applied to individuals who are caught by other people with more social capital doing things those people don't like them doing.

outlaw60(15500) Disputed
1 point

A criminal has morals ???????? You Progressives never lack Stupidity and you continually expose your ignorance

Jace(4706) Disputed
1 point

There aren't many of us amoralists around, so yeah most criminals have morals. What's your point?

The difference between atheists/agnostics and religious people is the source of their moral compass. Atheists/agnostics likely get it from the laws and their consciences. Christians get it from the Bible. They are all effective moral compasses.

However, being a Christian myself, I would have to say that Christians have a stronger moral compass because the Bible is the best moral compass. Atheists/agnostics can have a moral compass, but it would need to be based off of something other than the Bible. It's like the difference between an interview with a soldier from a war and a documentary about that war.

1 point

"With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" -Steven Weinberg

Religion twists people's morality, and provides a reason for doing unreasonable things. If you're going to base your moral code on a 2000-year old book, then your morals won't be compatible with society.

LoveU(348) Disputed
1 point

Some of It can

"Do not kill" -10 commandment

"Do not steal"-10 commandment

"Respect your parents" -Dt 27:16

"say no to incest" -Lev 18:18

"say no to vengeance (society says it's childish) " -mt 5:32-48

but yeah I agree, not all of it fits on society especially the Old Testament.

"Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD."

-Lev 19:28

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

1 point

No, we don't inherently have a better moral compass. However, unlike many- not all- theists, we don't pretend to be on the moral high ground based on belief in a specific imaginary friend.

LoveU(348) Disputed
1 point

I like your honesty but if you don't have a better moral compasses you have to base on something because we need better morals so If it's not a book then it can be Allan Watts or the laws of the gov

SexyJesus(217) Disputed
2 points

If I base my morals on anything- which, I should note, it is disputable whether we are "moral" creatures at all- it is based upon basic human empathy, which itself is based upon the human race's instinct for survival based upon cooperation, same as any other human, religious or not. However, very little motivates a need for human cooperation than by creating an enemy, or someone to ostracize- ergo, why Atheist and Christians are often misconceived as bitter enemies of some sort. People need that enemy to justify that they're the good guy, and I am by no means just talking about either Christians or Atheists.

I have yet to meet a true Pro life Atheist. A true Pro life person would never vote for a No Restriction abortion politician. That says it all!

Anyone who votes for the Democrat Party supports No Restriction abortions of healthy viable babes with healthy mothers.

To even mention the word morals with such people is laughable.

1 point

Hello L,

Sure. Right out of the box I knew that murder was wrong. I didn’t need a book to tell me.

excon

OmegaPan(725) Disputed
1 point

But you did have the book tell you. You yourself have said you were raised a Jew.