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Atheists can't separate God and religion
God is the creator of the universe and religion is the platform of having a cordial relationship with man(Parent and child not boss and surbodinate).
God exists outside religion(relationship platform), that is why even atheists who are unassociated with any Godly religious group still cannot get rid of God in theie minds.
Like he says, He is omnipresent, thus in the visible and invisible and in the minds of theists and atheists.
How could these people think they can get rid of their creator when he has his signature in every angle of you.
How many times have you said God does not exist but there is still something in you that's always disputing your own words(though it may not be loud enough, you feel some sort of conflict within you regarding your declaration .....signatures don't lie).
Every product has the owner's signature on it. The owner's mind is revealed in the product.
I want an atheist to declare that what he is today(height, voice, blood type, bones structure, eye colour, hair colour, skin colour, hair growth style etc) is of their own mind.
Then i will declare you worthy to worship yourself.
Because mindless creatures or nothingness cannot create something especially one also with a mind.
If your creature is not a mind or does not have mind then how you the creations rather have.
To tell you....don't feel smart because you're atheist.....it's actually the opposite when you believe there can be long lasting constant order , patterns,Principles and designs without a mind behind it simply implying nothing has purpose when these natural phenomenon prove their purpose each and everyday in conforment with our life needs and beyond in other needs which affects the universe as a whole.
That mind is who i call God.And there is only one as far as i know at least for this universe(if there are others).
If there were two or more(ex. superpowers China, Russia, USA, Japan , North Korea(not necessarily but in ammunition)) there would be competition, conflict,choas and random change in principles as among their creations as each will be trying to prove a point(i am the best). Apparently, that is not the case right?
You don't wanna have a relationship because you're mad? Fine.
But he still exists outside relationships or else he wouldn't call Himself omnipresent.
God doesn't need our subsets and categories. Jesus is who he is. God is who and what he is. Getting mad, throwing fits, or going into denial are futile and pointless and end in death by choice and rejection of God by the claimant. If God doesn't let them go their own way, He's a "tyrant". Amazingly, even within omnipotence, He is able to... let them go. They attack him even for that. I, an arrogant prick... am with him... to the death. He doesn't love me because I'm good. He loves me because I'm faithful and his good friend and servant even to the point of ridicule, threats and even death.
I don't agree with a lot of what you said but the basic premise that God can exist independent of all the religious interpretations of God is valid. Many people object to what different churches teach and do and then use that as their basis for rejecting belief in God. Although that is a valid thing to complain about it does not in and of itself negate God.
But turnabout is fair. Most theists can't separate God and religion either. And the best proof of that is when they're ready to tell people who belong to some other church than their own that they too are going to hell because they didn't understand the instructions correctly. If instead they truly just love God for the sake of loving God then they can do that even though someone else does it a little differently or for a slightly different reason.
hello im an atheist and i believe that yes, god can stand alone without religion. i do believe there'd be no religion had there not been some sort of whateva you religious people think god is. a superior being blah blah blah doesn't matter much to me. point is, no i dont think god needs religion to stand.
Atheists simply don't believe in God. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist for the rest of those who do believe in Him. Simply they don't believe. Do you separate Ahura Mazda and religion?
Before you can deny God, you must reject both religion and science at the same time.
When you reject religion alone there's is still God.
If you reject science alone there's still God.
The difference is science's God is strictly professional no emotions attached. Just creation.(Believed in by Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, Lord kelvin, Leonardo Da Vinci, Isaac Newton)
Religious Jew/Christ God is about relationship with creation. By the soul only men posses, We are his children.
(The reason, they call religious people emotional)
Believed in by; (Isaac Newton, Da Vinci, Lord Kelvin, And the rest of the world minus half & full atheists)
A Sunday morning couldn't start off better in any way other than with a good old belly laugh.
Roars or laughter from the pews.
God exists only in the stunted and diseased imagination of the mindless 'sheepeople' who believe in such crazy notions as Adam & Eve, Noah with his Arc, feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fish;- pity this wonder-boy wouldn't visit the starving nations of the world right now.
It's possible, just possible that the cosmos was created by some superior intelligence, but most certainly not by any of the man made Gods as worshiped by today's pitiful bunch of morons.
I genuinely believe that the people who profess to believe in ''The Gods'', any of ''The Gods'',are no more than a pack of lunatic liars who have dedicated/wasted part of their lives to ridiculing other decent folk and trying to fraudulently promote the concept of an imaginary God.
Of course the ''believers'' will point to the scientists and intellectuals who claim to believe in ''God'' but this ''name-dropping'' in support of the 'unsupportable' cuts no ice with me.
I have over the years considered the evidence of ''A God'', but able to rise above the prolonged brainwashing process of my childhood and dismiss the idea of an all loving, all knowing, all forgiving God as eye-watering bullshit.
Atheists believe in themselves and can recognise that they must find the strength within themselves to maximise their achievements and to accomplish as much as possible during their short time on this earth and not to pass responsibility for their lives over to some mythical God who will look after them in another life ''somewhere over the rainbow''.
If every atheist believe in himself then it means they believe they created this universe which is beyond their mental, physical etc. ability .(A universe in order)
Is that not absurd?
Even if you don't believe in the christian God, you cannot ignore no matter how hard you try the God of the natural universe. The universe that science feeds on. If there is no mind behind it, there would have been no scientific laws and principles for theories to be established. Mindless beings don't have laws and principles.
Anyone who denies this is unintelligent. You can be non religious or simply atheist of no beliefs.
But beside that, if you indeed are a critical intelligent thinker, you will realise this universe is a product of a mind (Could be called God) and it is layed out how He wants it.
Anyone who can't see this is simply a fool, an idiot and does not deserve a brain. I am not saying this for insulting sake, i mean it and its actually the truth. Any intelligent person without any bitter emotions getting in the way could clearly realise this.
And regarding the religious(relationship) God you so claim have searched for evidence of his existence, i remember making a proposal to you and you brushed with a silly senseless excuse. Good job on finding evidence with your legs crossed , arms folded in your wheeless chair of self righteousness, self acclaimed critical thinker, self delusion,pride , covered/secret bitterness, etc. ~ Atheism.
It is absurd that's why every Atheist doesn't think this way .
So there's other gods as well as the Christian gods ?
Do you believe in them ? If not why not ?
What the fuck is the god of the 'natural ' universe ?
Again you're right mindless beings don't have laws and principles that's why we have minds so we can make laws and principles.
So you state anyone who denies a god exists is unintelligent a fool and an idiot , so this whole debate is just so you can rant isn't it ?
Regards Atheists being fools and idiots that's a bit rich coming from you who famously stated human beings were evolving into ...... hamburgers , you're a prize cabbage with the intelligence of a jellyfish but hey Jesus loves ya
Real meaning ...... you cannot answer several simple questions so as usual when cornered you call the questions stupid because you're an idiot who cannot even defend what he claims he believes in .
You don't wanna have a relationship because you're mad? Fine......
That's hilarious Jeffrey claims to have a ' relationship ' with a supernatural entity that cannot be seen heard or touched yet exists , I think you ought to revise your ' understanding ' of the term mad don't you ?
Please go borrow some intellgence before you come here to try to debate. Mr. Mensa(in my local dialect Mensa means "third male born" but in this case will refer to your intelligence as "third class intelligence" which you're still struggling to maintain; such an honorable position to you).
I'm not ' trying ' to debate there is no debate that ended the minute you lost the plot by mentioning demons .
Regards ' borrowing ' intelligence again you're the one believes in demons not I which to me would seem you've somehow got reality fantasy confused with reality
Oh I do know and both debates are similar in content thus the reference , I forgot though that's it you the site dummy I'm communicating with so your stunned confusion was anticipated.
Dermot, I'm sure like me, and many millions of others, you've come to realise that trying to illustrate the stupidity of believing in any of the 'popular Gods' is a waste of time.
At some point in the future mankind will discover the way of eternal life, ( a cure for death,ha) and connect up with other intelligent life forms from somewhere in the immeasurable enormity of the cosmos.
Even though these advancements and discoveries will prove the nonexistence of any God, there will always be the devoted zealots who will still be possessed with an irrational compulsion to worship some God or other, any God, it won't really matter.
If, as just one example we study the story of Adam and Eve with talking snakes, forbidden fruit, God sneaking down in the dead of night to steal one of Adam's ribs from which to ''make'' Eve and Adam doesn't seem to notice part of his anatomy is missing nor wonder from where this stranger with tits and no dick came.
I mean anyone who would grasp onto the belief in a God whose existence is founded on such embarrassing drivel must be insane and therefore beyond being rescued from their madness.
Hi Antrim , it's remarkable that in the year 2017 people still believe this bullshit ; the bible is a contradictory book of gibberish it was probably written as a joke and it got a bit out of hand 😳
You're correct the zealots even if given proof there were no gods would worship and pray anyway because the truth would be unbearable for them .
There is no recusing a fair few of them from their madness Antrim , the poster of this debate is absolutely barking mad and a couple of months ago claimed Dynamo the magician carries out his feats by using demonic powers .
I listened to a talk online last year where a psychiatrist claimed that belief in a god was indeed a form of madness , the religious nuts in the audience were furious that just because they believed in a zombie called Jesus , virgin births , Noah's ark didn't mean they were mad 😂😂
You say .....If you don't believe in your self, how would you believe in God....makes sense........
No that makes no sense except to you .
I don't believe in god , I pointed out the fiction you bow and scrape to has murdered and asked others to do so in his name and yet you do not condemn him .
Regards being a ' stupid fuck ' well you're the one who claimed the speed of light was inaccurate , humans were evolving into hamburgers and women actually enjoy being raped making you a nasty dumb brute who calls itself a Christian 👌
Einstein did not believe in god and he did not believe in free will either .....
His own words .... Wiki ...
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
We know knowledge exists, and I know of people including myself reading stuff from the internet and other sources and gaining knowledge, school isn't the only place you gain knowledge from.
in the case of religion, people pray to a particular god just because their "religion" says them to. let's say there was some calamity due to which a whole religion was wiped out, in that case, the "god" that people of that religion followed will cease to exist.. and there cannot be a religion without god, because of the very definition of religion:the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
and of course, we don't know whether god exists, as of now, it's safe to say that "god" is just another idea, a belief system for people to have faith in so as to fulfill their emotional requirements.
But you don't know behind every invention(creation) , there's an inventor(creator)?
And that exists outside religion.
in the case of religion, people pray to a particular god just because their "religion" says them to.
What about budhists, from birth atheists, gays, etc. who have testimonies of encountering the presence of God before entering church for the first time.
I for example 1. believe the christian God exists because i was able to speak in tongues for the first around age 15. My parents still don't know i speak in tongues because we don't go to the same church. Most close church members can't tell if i do. I just do. In just 5minutes prayer not a semester course.
That's just one. So how can i ever say God doesn't exist when i am able to speak a language as stated in the bible that i never learnt? unlike other languages i can partially speak though i had more than two years to learn them.
Well that's all just within religion. Not your boundary.
let's say there was some calamity due to which a whole religion was wiped out, in that case, the "god" that people of that religion followed will cease to exist
Then why do think i created this debate.
Religious ~christian God is the relationship , the personal God albert einstein does not believe in.(He has a point, but there is still an argument)
So if the religion(relationship) seize to exist.
Then we will result to the God albert einstein believes in.
The Creator,(no hell or heaven stories). Just the creator of this Universe. The universe scientific laws and principles feed on .The mind behind the universe that he seeked to discover. Every serious scientist now and past know this God must exist. Why? The whole universe's set up is mind made in order not a choatic big bang fallacious nonsense(nothing banged into nothing, thus; if vacuum and vacuum bang into each other they create a universe).
That is why einstein hated being called an atheist as well as a religious person. His focus was just on the amazement of the mind behind the universe God, thus; he considers himself another insignificant(non special unlike how the world saw him) creation on the surface this huge universe.
Only idiots will totally be lowered to be atheist despite not being religious.
Get a picture of any planet in your mind and ask how come they are what they are (nature~colour size, properties, location, similarities to others, etc.)
even bombs are designed to explode.
because of the very definition of religion:the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
Does that mean that the superbeing didn't exist before gaining recognition through religion?(how do prove that?)
ex. Budha existed before he gained followership.
What led to his first recognition by the first follower? (In christianity jesus christ is a good example)
why didn't the second person think it's crazy but also fell in.
You think they are all dumb?
Should i introduce you to intellectuals, both intelligent and knowledgeable, open minded far more than you that are religious or christians?
Also, are there accounts for any supernatural manifestations in the early days and present of the supernatural being?
Yes. but Atheists have always given a stupid excuse not to look at it. Refusing to look at evidence tells how stupid one is.
And even online videos are not the best, i have plenty of avenues where anyone could see for himself.
and of course, we don't know whether god exists, as of now, it's safe to say that "god" is just another idea
why do you use we? ...i am not included. If i didn't know, i wouldn't be a follower.
And besides followership in religion, natural(by birth) intelligence(some people can't match up~mostly atheists, agnostics, humanists,Etc....) should help you recognise there is a creator of this universe even if we have no relationship with Him.
Einstein, Lord Kelvin, Netwton, 6 Of top highest IQs ,
leonardo Da vinci:
"And yet they want to comprehend the mind of God, talking about it as though they had already dissected it into parts. Still they remain unaware of their own bodies, of the realities of their surroundings, and even unaware of their own stupidity."
"It seems to me that all studies are vain and full of errors unless they are based on experience and can be tested by experiment, in other words, they can be demonstrated to our senses. For if we are doubtful of what our senses perceive then how much more doubtful should we be of things that our senses cannot perceive, like the nature of God and the soul and other such things over which there are endless disputes and controversies."
"Good Report soars and rises to heaven, for virtuous things find favor with God. Evil Report should be shown inverted, for all her works are contrary to God and tend toward hell."
"O you who look on this our machine, do not be sad that with others you are fated to die, but rejoice that our Creator has endowed us with such an excellent instrument as the intellect."
"Thou, O God, dost sell unto us all good things at the price of labor" (Gelb 69).2
"If the Lord—who is the light of all things—vouchsafe to enlighten me, I will treat of Light; wherefore I will divide the present work into 3 Parts . . . Linear Perspective, The Perspective of Colour, The Perspective of Disappearance."
"[W]e may justly call . . . painting . . . the grandchild of nature and related to God."
"We, by our arts may be called the grandsons of God."
"Fame alone raises herself to Heaven, because virtuous things are in favour with God."
Your claim to speak in tounges is an admittance that you utter gibberish ( which was never in any doubt ) linguists have studied claims made by frauds who claim to speak in tounges and the conclusions are that the utterances are pure nonsense .
You continue to be confused over Albert Einsteins position regarding a god despite being repeatedly corrected .....
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong ... have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything “chosen” about them.......
So according to Einstein you are engaged in childish superstition and your contention that every ' serious ' scientist agrees with you is again nonsense ; maybe Stephen Hawkings is not a ' serious ' scientist ?
There you go yet again with your favourite statement as in calling everyone who disagrees with your nonsense an idiot .
If you have evidence for supernatural beings or indeed a god why not post it up in the scientific community ?
Atheists will not look at evidence you say which is again a lie , normally your evidence is a ridiculous you tube video that a child would see through .
You say you that's why you're a follower yet you call anyone who is not of same mind an idiot , you like a child state that people with high IQ s believe in god you heard what Einstein thought of people such as you Hawkings is of a similar opinion so what's your point ?
You've certainly not a high IQ you're a dim creature that spouts rubbish and calls it speaking in tounges yet you call atheists idiots .... that's hilarious
But you don't know behind every invention(creation) , there's an inventor(creator)?
And that exists outside religion.
of course there is an inventor, and they are human, as much as me and you. But that in no way let's you make a generalization that every "creation" must have a "creator". An inventor takes essential material from the world to invent something, basically changing the form of something that was already present, for one's use and hence he hasn't "created" it. So to say that and inventor is a "creator" is horribly wrong, and hence everything has to be created is illogical.
even "we" ourselves, composed of atoms do not possess the abilities to make new atoms out of nothingness, so technically none of us have seen "creation", purely the way the word is, and we as humans apply logic to what is observed. not in something we believe, hence making this whole creator and creation thing nothing more than just an idea.
What about budhists, from birth atheists, gays, etc.
buddhists are honest and I respect them for that. they are philosophically functioning people, who believe a certain way of living is the best for them. I wouldn't call buddhism a religion because it fails the definition of the word. from birth atheists live life the way it is, and i'm certain even that fails the definition of religion.
who have testimonies of encountering the presence of God before entering church for the first time.
I don't see a need to explain this, but however I will, whether to respect what I say and understand is completely up to you. It is because of a desire to believe in something, they actually choose to believe. Imagination and emotions when combined together, will lead you to make decisions based on faith. when the above happens, people tend to see ordinary life experiences which can be reasoned for, and try to make their belief seem true.. it's something like the shadow of a tree on a night in which a person trying to sleep is scared, he assumes the shadow of the tree on a window to be a face or a person, which supports his belief that something dangerous is going to happen, which is the cause for him being scared.
let's say there was some calamity due to which a whole religion was wiped out, in that case, the "god" that people of that religion followed will cease to exist
my argument is self sufficient in this case. There were people way before religion of any sort got recorded, so today we don't know who those people prayed, if they had a religion and hence the god they prayed in the past, simply doesn't exist today.
Get a picture of any planet in your mind and ask how come they are what they are.
things seem like they need to have a creator because we "feel" that the way things are cannot be on their own. (not that I'm stating that is the way it is)
if you've noticed, we find symmetry amusing. We seek symmetry and appreciate it, and technically symmetry is why we feel things need a creator.. but apart from all emotions, it is fair enough to say that symmetry can be just as abundant.
Does that mean that the superbeing didn't exist before gaining recognition through religion?(how do prove that?)
that is exactly why I used the term "we don't know if god exists". now let me ask, what if superbeing is just an idea? that is logically just as not provable as your question.
But that in no way let's you make a generalization that every "creation" must have a "creator"
Why not?...
Before you can deny God, you must first reject both science and religion at a time. Because you're not making sense here. Not talking about the religion God. But the universal God. You cannot say nothing created the universe. Not only did it create it, but it is bound by laws and principles which result to orderliness. Why is your brain not hanging on your back? or say your right arm and right leg had a switch of position at birth? Had it happened, you would label it disorder right?
So tell me how out of a mindless nothing, mindful laws and princinples resulting to orderliness are able to exist with such high quality that it has been able to exist for over a billion years.
For a creator of such a universe must be super~natural(beyond our natural ability) and it is not unto you, to be concerned with what materials he used in assembling the universe into existence. Because the material he is of himself is beyond your limited natural senses to discover.
If there is pattern/principles to be followed in any object natural and artificial, no matter how big or small, there is a mind behind it called inventor or creator, reject this and you have rejected science and should never ever think of yourself as a scientist. Period.
If it is intelligence that you're after, and then the reason why you reject religion is to follow solely scientific reasoning, then why do you follow your historical role models in intelligence(High IQ) and scientific reasoning( namely; Einstein, Newton,Da Vinci, L.Kelvin, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/08/thomas-edison-not-atheist.html?m=1) )
only to the point where they all agree there is a supernatural intelligence(outside religion,father of nature) that is responsible for the universe be~ing.
Science is not a place to hide from God, it is only a place to hide from his relationship with you.
Before you can deny God, you must first reject both science and religion at a time. Because you're not making sense here. Not talking about the religion God. But the universal God. You cannot say nothing created the universe. Not only did it create it, but it is bound by laws and principles which result to orderliness. Why is your brain not hanging on your back? or say your right arm and right leg had a switch of position at birth? Had it happened, you would label it disorder right?
So tell me how out of a mindless nothing, mindful laws and princinples resulting to orderliness are able to exist with such high quality that it has been able to exist for over a billion years.
For a creator of such a universe must be super~natural(beyond our natural ability) and it is not unto you, to be concerned with what materials he used in assembling the universe into existence. Because the material he is of himself is beyond your limited natural senses to discover.
If there is pattern/principles to be followed in any object natural and artificial, no matter how big or small, there is a mind behind it called inventor or creator, reject this and you have rejected science and should never ever think of yourself as a scientist. Period.
If it is intelligence that you're after, and then the reason why you reject religion is to follow solely scientific reasoning, then why do you follow your historical role models in intelligence(High IQ) and scientific reasoning( namely; Einstein, Newton,Da Vinci, L.Kelvin, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/08/thomas-edison-not-atheist.html?m=1)) )
only to the point where they all agree there is a supernatural intelligence(outside religion,father of nature) that is responsible for the universe be~ing.
Science is not a place to hide from God, it is only a place to hide from his relationship with you.
After typing , i took a look at the rest and realised i would be repeating statements if i attempted answering them too.
My words are sufficient for all. Try and see. Look through all your questions and compare to my answer.
either way, this is what god means.
yes. Why are you telling me? Just that? what is your argument?
We haven't observed anything being "created" till date.
You shuolda been beside God when he was creating not sleeping.
The rest are self multiplicating/duplicating processes(birth) and immortality(water, air, mountains, planets, Stars, and other elements)
After all, you have never even observed how an iphone is being created or the details(without lising a second) of the 9months it takes for a babies development. (If you do, could have noticed when the soul and spirtit enters the body and when it leaves resulting in fully abled babies still born lol)
a guess
Then i guess i am guessing with the most intelligent people ever who appeared on the surface of the earth.
Where does that leave you? 8Dimension, 500IQ?..........
Then i guess i am guessing with the most intelligent people ever who appeared on the surface of the earth.
Where does that leave you? 8Dimension, 500IQ?..........
or.......
intelligence is of no use in a case until a commoner knows you're wrong,and irrespective of who "guesses" a guess is a guess.lol and there's a difference between talking about possibilities of existence of something and claiming it to be present, where does that leave you?
either way, this is what god means.
you said you were not talking about a god in a specific way, but the very word god has a single meaning, thus saying that you believe in a universal god rather than some other god makes no difference.
The rest are self multiplicating/duplicating processes(birth) and immortality(water, air, mountains, planets, Stars, and other elements)
After all, you have never even observed how an iphone is being created or the details(without lising a second) of the 9months it takes for a babies development. (If you do, could have noticed when the soul and spirtit enters the body and when it leaves resulting in fully abled babies still born lol)
a guess
all these are manipulations of what already exists, lol.
But i have done a good job i know.
you know is not what should be used there, you think is a better option, to completely ignore what another has said and pretending to understand what has been said has been a big problem, for personal growth.
You shuolda been beside God when he was creating not sleeping.
were you there?
answer this one question and I'll let you know whether you actually deserve replies.
intelligence is of no use in a case until a commoner knows you're wrong,and irrespective of who "guesses" a guess is a guess.lol and there's a difference between talking about possibilities of existence of something and claiming it to be present, where does that leave you?
Wrong. A commoner can't make conclusions on a topic of intelligence thats a guess.
But a group of intelligent people can conclude on a common fact(not guess).
If i ever classified it a guess, i was only playing along your quip which you seem to not wanna quit.
Bring up a name that could think above my list and has contradictory opinion toward their common view.
you said you were not talking about a god in a specific way
where so i clarify.
all these are manipulations of what already exists, lol.
Why do you separate the point(head) from the elaboration( body)?
You playing with your own nipples.
you know is not what should be used there, you think is a better option, to completely ignore what another has said and pretending to understand what has been said has been a big problem, for personal growth.
so you still can't point to a question my answer doesn't satisfy?
were you there?
I am not the one obsessed with observing His work.
Answering from universal point of view.
My 30th greatest grandfather didn't arive in time to see his works. God is very old but immortal.
He simply had to exist before bringing his creations into existence thus; after him.
So i am not bothered by observation.
Religious view;
After moulding man he breathed into him and he lived. So i was in God before he begot me into a body.
So, i was there and observed as God, not man.
Into man is a new life, fresh memory and subject to my previous self, now i am an image of my previous self(i was there).
Before the first man was created, i was God. In God i created the world live in today.
I sacrificed my knowledge(of observation) for life.
Like adam sacrificed glory for illumination.
answer this one question and I'll let you know whether you actually deserve replies.
you aren't starting to feel too important are you?
Wrong. A commoner can't make conclusions on a topic of intelligence thats a guess.
the commoner in this case doesn't have a conclusion of his own, but knows you're wrong, and of course it's a guess, so it doesn't actually matter who guessed it.
A commoner who cannot contribute in the intelligence demanding topic is able to know the world's top iq's common view or conclusion is wrong?
Do you have high Fever?
are you trying to say people with high iqs are never wrong? and if a commoner knows that a high iq person is wrong, the so called high iq hasn't been of much use to the person,
doesn't matter, where's the scientific proof for all their claims? they don't have one.
Here's a message from leonardo da vinci to you;
"I am well aware that because I did not study the ancients, some foolish men will accuse me of being uneducated. They will say that because I did not learn from their schoolbooks, I am unqualified to express an opinion. But I would reply that my conclusions are drawn from firsthand experience, unlike the scholars who only believe what they read in books written by others."
"Although I cannot quote from authors in the same way they do, I shall rely on a much worthier thing, actual experience, which is the only thing that could ever have properly guided the men that they learn from."
"These scholars strut around in a pompous way, without any thoughts of their own, equipped only with the thoughts of others, and they want to stop me from having my own thoughts. And if they despise me for being an inventor, then how much more should they be despised for not being inventors but followers and reciters of the works of others."
"When the followers and reciters of the works of others are compared to those who are inventors and interpreters between Nature and man, it is as though they are non-existent mirror images of some original. Given that it is only by chance that we are invested with human form, I might think of them as being a herd of animals."
You treat science like some stage concert overly rehearsed....and performed for everyone to when it shouldn't be so.You're like those Da Vinci describes. You're not the first of your kind and people like you have never made an impact in science throughout history
Look.. I'm NOT a complicated man.. I like EASY answers, and this is easy for me.. I'm an atheist.. That means I don't believe in God.. That's ALL it means.. It's a decision I made about ME - not you. It's NOT about other atheists, either. It's not about ANYBODY for that matter, OTHER than me. It means I don't have to separate things, or THINK about separating things.. And, I don't..
Religions are mythologies. I don't say that to be rude or belittle anyone who believes in them, and who knows, maybe one of those mythologies is true. But each religion is a set of separate beliefs and stories, just like the mythologies of old.
For all people argue for Christianity "not being a religion", it fits the objective criteria of a religion. It has a holy text and stories of God's greatness. Just as the Norse had stories of their gods' deeds, and the Hindus do, and the ancient Egyptians. These stories are there to inspire and to instruct. Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, Frey's willingness to sacrifice himself for love and so on. Each story or parable has a greater message behind it.
All named gods (Yahweh, Shiva, Thoth etc.) exist within the framework of one cultural tradition or another.
When God is separated from religion, this becomes deism, and "god" (with a small G) becomes a nameless entity which has had some role to play in the creation or maintenance of the universe.
And by "getting rid of God in their minds", I think you mean that atheists either enjoy the thought experiment of "where did we come from?" or they are opposing those who constantly attempt to convert them to our way of thinking. The Christian God is everywhere; our culture and popular culture is saturated with Christian ways of thinking, especially in the USA. It's hardly surprising that there is some seepage into the atheist consciousness.
Yawn. Can you guys please get over this whole "Atheists all secretly know that there's a God, they just don't believe because they want to behave badly" nonsense?
The honest truth is that we just don't see any sufficient evidence for it. There really isn't any ulterior moral motive behind it.
I believe in my own ability to achieve my goals, protect and provide for my family and show compassion towards my fellow human beings without having to pray and sing hymns to, as well as feeling obliged to constantly worship some imaginary God.
If someone tried to convince me that the real God was a sadistic, heartless entity who derives perverted pleasure from watching the suffering and humiliation of his hapless creations then I might possibly believe that credo.
People who have to place the responsibility for their own lives in the hands of others, Gods, politicians, bosses or anyone who appears stronger than themselves are no more than weak minded, yellow bellied low lives who deserve to be exploited by the churches, their employers or the establishment and drained of the greater part of their hard earned wages.
Science hasn't answered all the questions about how the universe came into existence but it is 'light years' ahead of, and has totally superseded the cockeyed misapprehension that a supernatural big shy silent man who zooms around the sky produced Adam, then Eve both of whom then went on to be the mummy and daddy of all human life on earth.
You're not even debating in accordance with the topic.
without having to pray and sing hymns to, as well as feeling obliged to constantly worship some imaginary God.
where did i ask you to do that?
"f someone tried to convince me that the real God was a sadistic, heartless entity who derives perverted pleasure from watching the suffering and humiliation of his hapless creations then I might possibly believe that credo."
No one is convincing you of that; you're not even worthy of that. Go in line with the topic not your bitter out pour. you always say it, nothing new.
It's not even the real reason why you're atheist. No atheist ever talks about the real reason.(Except most those from Asia).
I never buy your fake reasons.
And i cannot believe you wanna talk about science. Start listing the greatest scientists you ever heard of and lemme show you they believed in existence of God within and outside religion.
You try to tell me there are languages , laws of reciprocal response/effects that follow logical patterns without a Maker?
and you wanna use science to defend yourself? when this ridiculous assertion contradicts science. how horrible and pathetic.
I don't debate in accordance with a topic, the title of which is an oxymoron.
I respond in my own way to all things and never feel it necessary to stick within the self contradictory guidelines of the impossible scenario as presented by you.
Dig the mad dog's shit out of your head and then go and read your bible. Afterwards go and mindlessly chant 100 Hail Marys,;- Luke. 1;28.
"I don't debate in accordance with a topic, the title of which is an oxymoron."
Had you at least tried(for the first time to have an intelligent argument on such an intelligent topic) you would have been able to at least prove why atheists claim to be intelligent.
Not your regular boo ha ha.
I respond in my own way to all things and never feel it necessary to stick within the self contradictory guidelines of the impossible scenario as presented by you
says who? you or you need a wit expansion(not personal, based on what you say)
"Afterwards go and mindlessly chant 100 Hail Marys,;- Luke. 1;28."
I am not catholic . And i hate Hail Mary.~especially the part "pray for us sinners".
Hallelujah brother, hallelujah.
You think i should be shy of saying Hallelujah?....
it may only feel weird when it's a response to an atheist...a detester of christianity. And it's a sad thing you think the whole world is like you.
You don't know which church am from right?
A time ago, one of our old 80+ pastors preached till he fainted, he was revived and he refused to rest and came to continue....US.
Pastors as young men became paralysed and kept on their faith , sent out hundreds of churches in the world. Over 2000 churches all over the world. Imagine each church having 50members(which is more than that), it's over 100,000 church members with people who are smarter than you in three folds...
consists of doctors/scientists, Mayor/Senators, Huge successful Business men, former atheists who are now pastors all over the world, suicide bomber who never knew christ saved on the flight, my pastor used to buy weed with all of his monthly salary following the footsteps of his alcoholic father(he speaks spanish but don't know his actual citizenship), ........etc...
There are thousands of intellectuals in my church who are humble and going all out for God from different countries and of formerly different belief orientation.
So i do not know why i should be taking advice from a lost soul like you plus you even haven't proven to be intelligent than i am.