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Debate Info

33
41
God exists without religion God only exist within religion
Debate Score:74
Arguments:72
Total Votes:80
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Argument Ratio

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 God exists without religion (28)
 
 God only exist within religion (34)

Debate Creator

jeffreyone(1383) pic



Atheists can't separate God and religion

God is the creator of the universe and religion is the platform of having a cordial relationship with man(Parent and child not boss and surbodinate).
God exists outside religion(relationship platform), that is why even atheists who are unassociated with any Godly religious group still cannot get rid of God in theie minds. 
Like he says, He is omnipresent, thus in the visible and invisible and in the minds of theists and atheists.
How could these people think they can get rid of their creator when he has his signature in every angle of you.
How many times have you said God does not exist but there is still something in you that's always disputing your own words(though it may not be loud enough, you feel some sort of conflict within you regarding your declaration .....signatures don't lie).
Only those who created themselves can escape this. They will have their own signature©® in their genes/DNA telling them they're their own god.

Every product has the owner's signature on it. The owner's mind is revealed in the product. 
I want an atheist to declare that what he is today(height, voice, blood type, bones structure, eye colour, hair colour, skin colour, hair growth style etc) is of their own mind.
Then i will declare you worthy to worship yourself.
Because mindless creatures or nothingness cannot create something especially one also with a mind.
If your creature is not a mind or does not have mind then how you the creations rather have.

To tell you....don't feel smart because you're atheist.....it's actually the opposite when you believe there can be long lasting constant order , patterns,Principles and designs without a mind behind it simply implying nothing has purpose when these natural phenomenon prove their purpose each and everyday in conforment with our life needs and beyond in other needs which affects the universe as a whole.
That mind is who i call God.And there is only one as far as i know at least for this universe(if there are others).
If there were two or more(ex. superpowers China, Russia, USA, Japan , North Korea(not necessarily but in ammunition)) there would be competition, conflict,choas and random change in principles as among their creations as each will be trying to prove a point(i am the best). Apparently, that is not the case right?

You don't wanna have a relationship because you're mad? Fine.
But he still exists outside relationships or else he wouldn't call Himself omnipresent.

God exists without religion

Side Score: 33
VS.

God only exist within religion

Side Score: 41

God doesn't need our subsets and categories. Jesus is who he is. God is who and what he is. Getting mad, throwing fits, or going into denial are futile and pointless and end in death by choice and rejection of God by the claimant. If God doesn't let them go their own way, He's a "tyrant". Amazingly, even within omnipotence, He is able to... let them go. They attack him even for that. I, an arrogant prick... am with him... to the death. He doesn't love me because I'm good. He loves me because I'm faithful and his good friend and servant even to the point of ridicule, threats and even death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqBpifDpNKc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTewCIvR7Og&feature;=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPZrxZgQjrg&feature;=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huFra1mnIVE

Side: God exists without religion
2 points

I don't agree with a lot of what you said but the basic premise that God can exist independent of all the religious interpretations of God is valid. Many people object to what different churches teach and do and then use that as their basis for rejecting belief in God. Although that is a valid thing to complain about it does not in and of itself negate God.

But turnabout is fair. Most theists can't separate God and religion either. And the best proof of that is when they're ready to tell people who belong to some other church than their own that they too are going to hell because they didn't understand the instructions correctly. If instead they truly just love God for the sake of loving God then they can do that even though someone else does it a little differently or for a slightly different reason.

Side: God exists without religion
2 points

hello im an atheist and i believe that yes, god can stand alone without religion. i do believe there'd be no religion had there not been some sort of whateva you religious people think god is. a superior being blah blah blah doesn't matter much to me. point is, no i dont think god needs religion to stand.

Side: God exists without religion
1 point

Atheists simply don't believe in God. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist for the rest of those who do believe in Him. Simply they don't believe. Do you separate Ahura Mazda and religion?

Side: God exists without religion
jeffreyone(1383) Clarified
1 point

Before you can deny God, you must reject both religion and science at the same time.

When you reject religion alone there's is still God.

If you reject science alone there's still God.

The difference is science's God is strictly professional no emotions attached. Just creation.(Believed in by Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, Lord kelvin, Leonardo Da Vinci, Isaac Newton)

Religious Jew/Christ God is about relationship with creation. By the soul only men posses, We are his children.

(The reason, they call religious people emotional)

Believed in by; (Isaac Newton, Da Vinci, Lord Kelvin, And the rest of the world minus half & full atheists)

Side: God exists without religion
3 points

A Sunday morning couldn't start off better in any way other than with a good old belly laugh.

Roars or laughter from the pews.

God exists only in the stunted and diseased imagination of the mindless 'sheepeople' who believe in such crazy notions as Adam & Eve, Noah with his Arc, feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fish;- pity this wonder-boy wouldn't visit the starving nations of the world right now.

It's possible, just possible that the cosmos was created by some superior intelligence, but most certainly not by any of the man made Gods as worshiped by today's pitiful bunch of morons.

I genuinely believe that the people who profess to believe in ''The Gods'', any of ''The Gods'',are no more than a pack of lunatic liars who have dedicated/wasted part of their lives to ridiculing other decent folk and trying to fraudulently promote the concept of an imaginary God.

Of course the ''believers'' will point to the scientists and intellectuals who claim to believe in ''God'' but this ''name-dropping'' in support of the 'unsupportable' cuts no ice with me.

I have over the years considered the evidence of ''A God'', but able to rise above the prolonged brainwashing process of my childhood and dismiss the idea of an all loving, all knowing, all forgiving God as eye-watering bullshit.

Atheists believe in themselves and can recognise that they must find the strength within themselves to maximise their achievements and to accomplish as much as possible during their short time on this earth and not to pass responsibility for their lives over to some mythical God who will look after them in another life ''somewhere over the rainbow''.

Side: God only exist within religion
jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

If every atheist believe in himself then it means they believe they created this universe which is beyond their mental, physical etc. ability .(A universe in order)

Is that not absurd?

Even if you don't believe in the christian God, you cannot ignore no matter how hard you try the God of the natural universe. The universe that science feeds on. If there is no mind behind it, there would have been no scientific laws and principles for theories to be established. Mindless beings don't have laws and principles.

Anyone who denies this is unintelligent. You can be non religious or simply atheist of no beliefs.

But beside that, if you indeed are a critical intelligent thinker, you will realise this universe is a product of a mind (Could be called God) and it is layed out how He wants it.

Anyone who can't see this is simply a fool, an idiot and does not deserve a brain. I am not saying this for insulting sake, i mean it and its actually the truth. Any intelligent person without any bitter emotions getting in the way could clearly realise this.

And regarding the religious(relationship) God you so claim have searched for evidence of his existence, i remember making a proposal to you and you brushed with a silly senseless excuse. Good job on finding evidence with your legs crossed , arms folded in your wheeless chair of self righteousness, self acclaimed critical thinker, self delusion,pride , covered/secret bitterness, etc. ~ Atheism.

Side: God exists without religion
Dermot(5736) Disputed Banned
2 points

It is absurd that's why every Atheist doesn't think this way .

So there's other gods as well as the Christian gods ?

Do you believe in them ? If not why not ?

What the fuck is the god of the 'natural ' universe ?

Again you're right mindless beings don't have laws and principles that's why we have minds so we can make laws and principles.

So you state anyone who denies a god exists is unintelligent a fool and an idiot , so this whole debate is just so you can rant isn't it ?

Regards Atheists being fools and idiots that's a bit rich coming from you who famously stated human beings were evolving into ...... hamburgers , you're a prize cabbage with the intelligence of a jellyfish but hey Jesus loves ya

Side: God only exist within religion
Dermot(5736) Banned
2 points

You say .......

You don't wanna have a relationship because you're mad? Fine......

That's hilarious Jeffrey claims to have a ' relationship ' with a supernatural entity that cannot be seen heard or touched yet exists , I think you ought to revise your ' understanding ' of the term mad don't you ?

Side: God only exist within religion
jeffreyone(1383) Clarified
1 point

Please go borrow some intellgence before you come here to try to debate. Mr. Mensa(in my local dialect Mensa means "third male born" but in this case will refer to your intelligence as "third class intelligence" which you're still struggling to maintain; such an honorable position to you).

Side: God exists without religion
Dermot(5736) Disputed Banned
1 point

I'm not ' trying ' to debate there is no debate that ended the minute you lost the plot by mentioning demons .

Regards ' borrowing ' intelligence again you're the one believes in demons not I which to me would seem you've somehow got reality fantasy confused with reality

Side: God exists without religion
Antrim(1287) Clarified
1 point

Dermot, I'm sure like me, and many millions of others, you've come to realise that trying to illustrate the stupidity of believing in any of the 'popular Gods' is a waste of time.

At some point in the future mankind will discover the way of eternal life, ( a cure for death,ha) and connect up with other intelligent life forms from somewhere in the immeasurable enormity of the cosmos.

Even though these advancements and discoveries will prove the nonexistence of any God, there will always be the devoted zealots who will still be possessed with an irrational compulsion to worship some God or other, any God, it won't really matter.

If, as just one example we study the story of Adam and Eve with talking snakes, forbidden fruit, God sneaking down in the dead of night to steal one of Adam's ribs from which to ''make'' Eve and Adam doesn't seem to notice part of his anatomy is missing nor wonder from where this stranger with tits and no dick came.

I mean anyone who would grasp onto the belief in a God whose existence is founded on such embarrassing drivel must be insane and therefore beyond being rescued from their madness.

Side: God exists without religion
Dermot(5736) Banned
2 points

Hi Antrim , it's remarkable that in the year 2017 people still believe this bullshit ; the bible is a contradictory book of gibberish it was probably written as a joke and it got a bit out of hand 😳

You're correct the zealots even if given proof there were no gods would worship and pray anyway because the truth would be unbearable for them .

There is no recusing a fair few of them from their madness Antrim , the poster of this debate is absolutely barking mad and a couple of months ago claimed Dynamo the magician carries out his feats by using demonic powers .

I listened to a talk online last year where a psychiatrist claimed that belief in a god was indeed a form of madness , the religious nuts in the audience were furious that just because they believed in a zombie called Jesus , virgin births , Noah's ark didn't mean they were mad 😂😂

Side: God only exist within religion
jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

Even though these advancements and discoveries will prove the nonexistence of any God,

Albert einstein, Isaac Newton , Lord Kevin etc . believe the opposite and who are you?

What theory are you known for?

Side: God exists without religion

considering the definition of a religion:

"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

god and religion cannot be separated..

Side: God only exist within religion
jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

God and religion which came first?

They came together? you think?

Then christianity existed before universe……

Side: God exists without religion
1 point

haha, idea of religion depends on that of god, they are interconnected, and depend on each other for existence even just as ideas...

Side: God only exist within religion
1 point

Hello J:

Look.. I'm NOT a complicated man.. I like EASY answers, and this is easy for me.. I'm an atheist.. That means I don't believe in God.. That's ALL it means.. It's a decision I made about ME - not you. It's NOT about other atheists, either. It's not about ANYBODY for that matter, OTHER than me. It means I don't have to separate things, or THINK about separating things.. And, I don't..

excon

Side: God only exist within religion
1 point

Religions are mythologies. I don't say that to be rude or belittle anyone who believes in them, and who knows, maybe one of those mythologies is true. But each religion is a set of separate beliefs and stories, just like the mythologies of old.

For all people argue for Christianity "not being a religion", it fits the objective criteria of a religion. It has a holy text and stories of God's greatness. Just as the Norse had stories of their gods' deeds, and the Hindus do, and the ancient Egyptians. These stories are there to inspire and to instruct. Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, Frey's willingness to sacrifice himself for love and so on. Each story or parable has a greater message behind it.

All named gods (Yahweh, Shiva, Thoth etc.) exist within the framework of one cultural tradition or another.

When God is separated from religion, this becomes deism, and "god" (with a small G) becomes a nameless entity which has had some role to play in the creation or maintenance of the universe.

And by "getting rid of God in their minds", I think you mean that atheists either enjoy the thought experiment of "where did we come from?" or they are opposing those who constantly attempt to convert them to our way of thinking. The Christian God is everywhere; our culture and popular culture is saturated with Christian ways of thinking, especially in the USA. It's hardly surprising that there is some seepage into the atheist consciousness.

Side: God only exist within religion
1 point

Yawn. Can you guys please get over this whole "Atheists all secretly know that there's a God, they just don't believe because they want to behave badly" nonsense?

The honest truth is that we just don't see any sufficient evidence for it. There really isn't any ulterior moral motive behind it.

Side: God only exist within religion
-1 points

I believe that atheists can indeed separate God from religions.

God, to an atheist, is an imaginary construct. That is why they do not believe in Gods.

Religions are just an avenue for people to exercise their tribal or hivish needs and circle around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU

God does not only exist within religions. In ancient days, emperors used to declare themselves to be Gods.

Regards

DL

Side: God only exist within religion
jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

You chose the side "God only exists within religion" but then again you say

"God does not only exist within religions"

Plus your entire argument is not even intelligent......not personal "JustTruth".

Side: God exists without religion
Antrim(1287) Disputed
1 point

I believe in my own ability to achieve my goals, protect and provide for my family and show compassion towards my fellow human beings without having to pray and sing hymns to, as well as feeling obliged to constantly worship some imaginary God.

If someone tried to convince me that the real God was a sadistic, heartless entity who derives perverted pleasure from watching the suffering and humiliation of his hapless creations then I might possibly believe that credo.

People who have to place the responsibility for their own lives in the hands of others, Gods, politicians, bosses or anyone who appears stronger than themselves are no more than weak minded, yellow bellied low lives who deserve to be exploited by the churches, their employers or the establishment and drained of the greater part of their hard earned wages.

Science hasn't answered all the questions about how the universe came into existence but it is 'light years' ahead of, and has totally superseded the cockeyed misapprehension that a supernatural big shy silent man who zooms around the sky produced Adam, then Eve both of whom then went on to be the mummy and daddy of all human life on earth.

Side: God only exist within religion