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Debate Info

6
5
Yes, look at their actions No, hear what they say
Debate Score:11
Arguments:12
Total Votes:11
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 Yes, look at their actions (4)
 
 No, hear what they say (4)

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Black Lives Matter Group

Is the Black Lives Matter group demonstrating that black lives don't actually matter by protesting at a Bernie Sanders rally?  Bernie Sanders has a history of helping black people.  The candidate who has helped show black lives matter the most is Bernie Sanders.  Since the Black Lives Matter group doesn't seem to care about the black lives that Bernie has helped are they in fact demonstrating that they don't really think black lives matter?

Yes, look at their actions

Side Score: 6
VS.

No, hear what they say

Side Score: 5
2 points

Politics is about grandstanding and pushing your issue onto the agenda. The majority of people are not going to think so critically about this matter to reach the conclusion posited by the debate moderator. What they will haven noticed and remember is the issue, as well as the concession made by the Sanders campaign.

I would say this was actually one of the more successful actions taken by Black Lives Matter (which is arguably not saying much).

Side: Yes, look at their actions
2 points

The name of the group is obviously their first mistake. The tactic of grabbing attention at public events is their second mistake. Shouting their mindless slogan is their third mistake. The most honored, respected and heeded voice for black Americans was, is and will remain, black churches and black community leaders.

Running around yelling will keep them and their cause on the fringe.

Side: Yes, look at their actions
Jace(5222) Clarified
1 point

Branding any movement using exclusionary language is a strategic misstep, even if the exclusionary principle does hold validity. Effective activism necessarily entails not just galvanizing your own demographic, but in being able to successfully galvanize others in your interest and to build relationships that help you move your demographic forward. That said, the name Black Lives Matter has not been a total failure - at the very least it has given the black demographic a name to get behind.

Grabbing attention at public events I would argue is not a mistake. How they have gone about doing it, however, has been more detrimental than not most of the time I think. While they have kept their name in the press and popular attention, they have also created associations with their name which are not favorable to many people (however valid those associations may be).

Regarding their slogan (I assume you mean "Hand up, don't shoot!" and/or the various iterations?), most marching chants are fairly mindless. Slogans are very basic reductions of philosophy that are meant to be catchy more than they are substantive. To that end, I think they have been successful; they've created chants/slogans that have been popular enough to be used across the country which makes the movement seem more cohesive.

I do not think that one must be a black church leader to be honored, respected, and heeded (although that has tended to be the case in civil rights history), and it seems redundantly self-evident to state that an organizer is a community leader. I think the more important take away is that established members of community who think things through and are more intelligent about strategy and outreach are the more successful. I think religious leaders are adept at that because leading congregations fosters a transferable set of skills.

We agree, though, that running about yelling is ultimately unproductive (if not outright damaging); the Occupy movement did the same thing... and look how much change they created.

Side: Yes, look at their actions

"Black Lives Matter" is going after the wrong Party and especially after the wrong individual. "Black Lives Matter" should be demonstrating at rallies for Donald Trump, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush, Tom Cruz, and Dr. Ben Carson, etc. The GOP is the Party that needs to listen.

Side: Yes, look at their actions
1 point

But the GoP won't listen. If they protested at those rallies, they would receive nothing but negative backlash because those people wouldn't listen in the first place. By protesting at Sanders' rally, they got him to listen and put out a statement. They got the Left-Wing establishment to listen, because the Left-Wing in this country is more likely to be open to their message. What you are suggesting simply would not work and would be a waste of their time and effort.

Side: No, hear what they say
PhxDemocrat(13121) Clarified
1 point

You brought up a valid point about the GOP not listening because they are not going to endorse "Black Lives Matter." But, what I want to emphasize is that if "Black Lives Matter" would go after the GOP candidates that the Media would be broadcasting it and those GOP candidates would be put between a rock and a hard place, i.e., those GOP candidates will be viewed as racist if they don't acknowledge them or those GOP candidates will be branded as "RINOs" if they do acknowledge "Black Lives Matter."

Side: Yes, look at their actions
1 point

I think they need to go after Ted Cruz and not Tom. :P

Side: Yes, look at their actions

I actually read an article just today about exactly this, and while I disagree with certain aspects of their claims (particularly regarding what the author claims to be Sander's opinions on the origin of American racism), I think they do a good job of addressing the overarching issue here.

Yes, Bernie Sanders marched with MLK Jr., and yes, of all the candidates, Sanders is the strongest on minority issues. But ultimately, Sanders has no legitimate chance of winning, even if I'd like him to. But by protesting, they got Sanders to make an announcement regarding their issues the next day. If that leads to Hillary being forced to make an announcement, that means they would have succeeded, and quite possibly enacted real change on the electoral stage, especially if that announcement forced Republicans to make similar ones, or at least talk about the issue.

Side: No, hear what they say
1 point

You bring up a good point.

I am really disappointed that it worked since they targeted the wrong person. It is great to see that it worked because they were completely wrong about him.

Side: No, hear what they say

It is difficult for me to not be mad at them considering the man f--king marched with MLK Jr. I mean if that doesn't help vouch for his credentials on this issue, I don't know what does! But their protest was not directed towards him, it was directed towards his supporters, and towards the electoral field as a whole.

It sucks that Sanders was the one who had to be used as a tool, but it's great that their initial goal was accomplished.

Side: No, hear what they say