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I think that's a pretty pathetic way to treat our elders. From a young age we should be taught not only to respect others but to respect our elders; they have lived longer and have more experience and it's quite valuable to learn from them. It's one thing to have a safety net, it's quite another to find out what you were counting on was going to be eaten away by the utterly insane cost of medical bills and medicines, both expected and unexpected. You can always hold things aside but you can't always know how much you need or what surprises are in store. I think one of the saddest things in our society is how we treat those who have lived life and are at an advanced age. Tossed aside as if they are a problem no one wants to deal with. If we all chipped in it wouldn't take much to help support those who need it. But no, some people would whine about that 'maybe' taking out their second bottle of wine for the week and how women should be forced to give birth but screw the elderly who can be just as helpless as a child.
They don't always have someone they can live with, they don't always have the ability to live a life on their own and good God the cost of living in an elderly care facility that is actually GOOD is more than most can afford, tacking on medical bills very few who are middle class will ever be able to afford it.
It is and you're right , It's actually shameful a country that spends trillions on armaments and the way it treats its elderly is appaling , you hear about America being the land of the free etc,etc, it's all bullshit ; I've heard so called Christians on here absolutely losing it at the thought of some poor devil getting free medical care , " not on my dime buddy " .
It's truly despicable really what defines a great nation is the way it treats its young , elderly and vulnerable .
No country is perfect but getting old in the US would terrify me , here is what I said to Excon ,
America seems to be no country for old people , while my country is not utopia me and my wife are guaranteed state pensions when we reach that stage like the majority of citizens in this country and that's on top of any other pension one has , everyone gets this including the rich .
One gets free travel and reduced fuel bills and a free TV license on reaching pension age
Citizens also get children's allowances for each child under 18 it's a 140 a month each child .
I've never paid into any medical plan I refuse too , my wife does and it costs a lot I've used state services which are free and it's not perfect but it works .
I work now as a full time artist and I'm entitled to tax free status up to 90,000 euro that's a break to encourage artists to do what there best at .
The country like most is not perfect but I would hate to have to pay for these things we see as rights .
If you take all the families who COULD SUPPORT THEIR PARENTS, but choose to allow the tax payers to do it, we would have very few people begging for charity!
This is how it works, when our nation was not going bankrupt, and famiies understood they would have to help their parents out when they got older, people planned for these inevitable situations.
Along came closet Socialist Democrats who needed to get Americans hooked on Government dependence rather than family dependence.
Now families look for ways to have government support their parents in old age homes, by transfering their parents savings into their own accounts (a few years before needing an old age home) and thereby putting all the burden on tax payers to support the parents.
You know this is true but as good little closet socialists, you like having others support those YOU SHOULD BE SUPPORTING. This way you can keep your parents savings for yourself.
I will make a deal with you. I will support every old person who has no children to rely on, if you agree not to use tax payer money for all those old people who do have families to support them.
I'm not talking about catastophic illness that might cost much more than a family can afford. I'm talking about families taking their parents in their homes rather than expecting tax payer funded old age homes.
Government AS ALWAYS does a terrible job of keeping a budget and keeping costs down. Our nation is going bankrupt case you missed it. We can no longer afford giving everyone the free life.
Many many people are basically selfish and will allow others to bare the burden of the old people rather than they themselves helping their parents.
The problem with Progressives is that they want Government to be the ones supporting everybody. IT CAN NOT WORK! WE ARE GOING BANKRUPT! ALL THOSE OTHER SOCIALIST NATIONS ARE GOING BANKRUPT AS WELL!
You call Conservatives uncaring people when the facts are that Conservtives are the truly compassionate people who would glady support their parents. The sick problem with the Left is that they have taken so much of our income to pay for all their bankrupt social programs, that families have a hard time saving money to support their parents.
Both polar opposites have some doing it themselves and some accepting services.
But tells us, FromWithin, how many of you or your wife's parents live with you? My impression is you're old enough to have parents in need of care. Pony up. Who are you funding and taking care of at home?
I will waste a couple sentences to the site Alt Liberal.
If Conservatives had a problem with supporting their parents, why would they keep fighting to stop the madness of Government debt spending on the elderly who have families to help? Ask yourself why we would want to cut our own throats if we are who you say we are?
You will know a person by the policies they support.
So far, our parents need no help, and you can bet we will have no problem helping them when the time comes, but then again, we are not socialist fools!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh you're too much sometimes.
"You will know a person by the policies they support."
You tout the Republican Party, which has become the mouth of a slew of special interest groups including your own obsession of anti-abortion, and which came to office on the most extreme policy platform in the history of that party and of the USA itself.
It doesn't need trust in NYT, all you need to do is compare the latest Republican platform with those in the days of Reagan or Bush and the point is fully supported.
Responding to your first mindless deception before editing it, you said the GOP supports special interest groups like white supremace, haters of Gay people, etc. etc.
LET ME ONCE AGAIN SAY YOU ARE A MINDLESS FOOL!
We listened to Hillary every speech talking about the Democrat's special interest LGBT groups. Big money and votes from their special interest groups.
So tell me any speech a Republican has ever given, lifting up white supremace or anti Gay groups, or racist groups, etc. etc.?
LET ME REPEAT, YOU ARE A FOOL!
Keep deceiving people by piously judging Republicans as being deplorable, irredeemable, racists, haters of women and poor people, haters of the elederly, etc. etc. and wonder why you keep losing elections.
You made three laps there in the ALL CAPS to blast the word fool at me and I don't think anyone on this site, even my enemies, think I am a "mindless fool." They may disagree with me, believe I'm going to hell, or label me in a way they think is suitable, but I'm not a fool. Foolish is declaring Republicans never give speeches saying things against minorities or women or LGBT, when it takes very little internet searching to turn up exactly that.
I'm still waiting for you to show me a Republican Congressmen or President lifting up special interest groups such as White Supremace in their speeches. Gee what a shock.... YOU ARE A FOOL!
Do you know how many times Democrats have also made stupid racial comments over the years?
Politicians making gaffes is nothing new.
But as I knew, you had nothing to prove your mindless deceptive claims.
So tell me, the fool you voted for.... Hillary Clinton.... called Trump supporters deplorable and irredeemable. Yo hae the nerve to bring up stupid gaffes by others?
What's sick is that her's was not a gaffe. Liberals actually are the intolerant hatemongering fools who agree with her statement.
No, lets ignore your biased cherry picked sites because you waste our time. For every stupid statement you find from Republicans, there are just as many from Democrats.
Hey, when I'm giving 5 documentations to your 0, and when my documentations include direct quotes from the people on your side I'm referring to, then there simply isn't any counter argument left.
You gave me NOTHING! I asked for examples where the GOP leadership has lifted up activist special interest groups such as the White Supremace groups you claimed.
The Democrat Party uses even their National presidential convention to constantly speak to their special interest LGBT groups, etc.
You have nothing but deceptive rhetoric as always. Bringing up stupid remarks by individual Politicians means nothing and is not what I asked for.
Your silence proves my piont. The GOP is the Party of all Americans, not just special interest voting blocks.
Is it time for nother ignore? You refuse to give me any proof whereby the GOP lifts up White Supremace groups in their speeches, in their conventions, etc. etc.
Have I mentioned lately.... YOU TOTAL DECEPTIVE FOOL?
Why don't we go back a few decades ago and bring upi Robert Bird, the Democrat KKK member? HE ACTUALLY JOINED THE HATE GROUP YOU FOOL!
Yes, Byrd was also an @sshole. But you see I'm able to say that. I'm not living in a dream world insisting one party never ever ever says or does anything wrong and the other is the devil. In fact I slam on the two party system and its phonies all the time. But not you. Because you have a party narrative in your head and your posts in here are drenched with it.
YOu fool liar. You just got done demonizing the entire Republican party for the actions of a few. I never see you doing that with the Democrat Party.
Where was your outrage at trump's severed head? All the biased hate against trump, and you never say a thing.
I am still waiting to hear you slam on this extremist Democrat Party because I have yet to see it, you complete deceptive fool. I hear you agree with the other leftists on this site. I hardly ever see you take them to task.
You never miss a chance to demonize Trump, yet through all Hillry's corruption, you were mostly silent and then voted for her.
Oh gee, the guy who says if you ever once voted for any Democrat anywhere then you support abortion with no restrictions whatsoever thinks I have unfairly criticized the whole party for what a few say and do. Well I feel really bad about that, uh huh.
Wait, I forgot to use your moderate debating technique.
Scalise may have spoken at some White man's organization 15 years ago as he did at women's orgnizations, etc. etc. BUT Robert Byrd WAS A KKK MEMBER!
See how that works? No matter how bad you say some Republicans are, there are Democrats even worse.
Sorry, I can't bring myself into the gutter of Liberal debating 101. I have principles of honesty and integrity, not to find one bad apple and paint the entire barrel as being just like him.
When i speak to Democrat inhumanity, it is not based on the actions of one of their cohorts, it is based on their entire Party's support for the inhumanity.
Actually I agree there are some very bad Democrats. My position has always been that the two party system sucks and the people running both have fvcked this country up.
That doesn't change the fact thought that policy wise the Republicans under Trump are in an all out assault on services in favor of making the rich richer.
If you take all the families who COULD SUPPORT THEIR PARENTS, but choose to allow the tax payers to do it, we would have very few people begging for charity!
You are assuming those elderly have family who are still alive, you are assuming they have a close family connection, you are assuming their family is even good to their elders, and you are assuming they even CAN support them.
But who cares about that right? That must not exist because you don't have that issue and by God you don't care what happens after the womb.
Omg that's exactly it! I never caught that before. Only he wouldn't be disdainful of Christmas, he'd celebrate it with a side of the usual "there's a war on Christmas" rhetoric.
Yes , people like him are nasty narrow minded hypocrites who judge everyone less fortunate as non human and worthy of a hand up , people like him no doubt are seen as ' pillars ' of the local community where they preach one thing but practice another
I think the major difference is he thinks "hand up" means full and continuous support, all the time, every time. Supporting someone though a difficult time and giving them the means to eventually support themselves is what I want. I believe in the "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach the man to fish and you feed him for life", saying. But I "think" he thinks it's either one or the other, for me there is a lot of gray in between. Yes there are people who will take advantage of it, but I think closing loopholes that allow that kind of dishonesty is better then removing all help completely.
I actually think that is a fallacy or at the very least a cop out. Basically "I don't want to put in the system because it takes away from me so I'm going to use a completely bogus (but true) reason to pull out of giving assistance to others, that way I'll feel better about myself at night." Kind of thing. Maybe I'm being too harsh. It could also be they see a few people taking advantage and assume everyone will, but that reeks of ignorance and quite frankly is a disservice to those who need the help and are only using it to get back on their feet.
It is a cop out , it's remarkable though that these self same people have developed so much hatred for anyone or anything that's different and someone see difference as anti American
Lol, you act like you ignoring me is some kind of punishment, ignore me if you want.
I was bringing up points with family dynamics which can counterbalance your belief that enough family could support their parents, and all you brought is your usual rhetoric of Leftist malarkey. Not all elderly have close contact or communication with their family. Not all elderly have family still living. Not all elderly have family that can help cover or support the cost of a nursing home or caregiver needed for them including medications. Not all elderly has family that even gives a damn about them. But if you want to support them, great then you should have no problem with taxes to help the elderly.
You brought up a mindless response that went totally opposite to what I already told you.
No ignorng you is not punishment. I figured if you are on a debate site you might want to debate rather than forcing people to ignore you for wasting our time.
Maybe you might want to think about the importance of our broken homes that I keep talking about. Do you see how it works when parents abandon their children? They have no one to help them when they get old.
People like you want us all to bail out these people who abandoned their children and now are having a hard time in their old age. What a shame, there is justice after all!
You sure did not care much for those children being abandoned by these dead beat parents.
Like I say with welfare, we should always provide food banks for people who are hungry. We should always provide a shelter for people with no place to live. When it comes to more than the basics, the quality of life will depend on the responsibility of the person his entire life.
I brought up a response that went totally opposite to what you said. I don't know if you know this or not but that is called debating. I've already agreed that broken homes are part of the problem, but you can't get past the "part of the problem" part, you only focus on that as the sole problem. It's not "bailing out" to try to help someone, that you see it that way is very telling. Holding out a hand to assist the young mother who made a mistake, or trying to assist the elderly who don't have anyone to turn to is not the bad thing you want it to be and yes, it may cost a little out of pocket but no you'd rather that money going to build a wall than our own people. Don't act like you care about children after the womb, every time I've debated you on trying to further the education of those in poorer communities, you've done nothing but speak disdainfully of the parents and their kids and scoff at their situation with zero concern other than how it would affect you.
There are times I enjoy debating you, but recently it's an automatic "Leftist this, Leftist that" nonsense; you've put words in my mouth enough times to be as deceitful as you accuse everyone else for being.
Needless to say, we don't agree with each other, even if we partially agree on other topics.
Ok then, tell me what I'm twisting. Genuinely I would like to know. See if you can do it without the usual "Leftist's are all to blame" rhetoric and actually tell me what exactly you are saying and what I got wrong. If you can do it in a calm and concise manner then yes, let's discuss.
Mint i have to say those on the Left have a real short memory.
At one point in the town hall, broadcast from the East Room by ABC news, a woman named Jane Sturm told the story of her 105-year-old mother, who, at 100, was told by an arrhythmia specialist that she was too old for a pacemaker. She ended up getting a second option, and the operation, for which Ms. Sturm credits her survival. "Look, the first thing for all of us to understand that is we actually have some -- some choices to make about how we want to deal with our own end-of-life care," Mr. Obama replied. After discussing ways "we as a culture and as a society [can start] to make better decisions within our own families and for ourselves," he continued that in general "at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what? Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."
Good for her that she was able to get a pacemaker, I can understand a doctor being nervous about it, but she went forward and got one and was able to live longer. That's fantastic. But what does that have to do with what I've said?
A person has several kids. They bleed the system dry all of their life. They never provide a service. They never put money into the system. They took from the rest of us and never worked all of their life. Why does the system owe them cancer treatment if they get cancer at age 82?
Would I do something if I had mà gic powers to save them? Sure. But why should the system that they were a parasite of?
Now you as a veteran is a different issue all together, but you didn't come at this debate from that angle.
It's not about ME.. It's about the MILLIONS of people who will be DUMPED on the streets if you have your way.. Should they have worked harder? Should they have saved better? Should they have been born wealthy?
I dunno, and I don't care.. I support a SAFETY NET who'll catch those people, and stop them from DYING ON THE STREET, NO MATTER what the reason for their plight..
Should they have worked harder? Should they have saved better
Yes. But it's not that simple. Socialist countries and welfare states can't sustain their systems. They are in financial straights. That's just reality.
That's a deliberate lie I'm from a so called welfare state and even during the last recession we sustained welfare protections ; why do you constantly make things up ?
Here's where I question your math skills... Unless you have a MILLION $$'s and you might, you'll wind up BROKE.. You'll wind up depending on your fellowman.. That's the state of affairs for MOST people in this country, including LOTS of Republicans.. MOST people didn't save enough.. MOST people should have had better jobs.. MOST people should have been smarter.. Should they be PUNISHED for it??
WITHOUT Medicaid, MOST people will wind up ON THE STREETS.. Apparently you don't know that..
America seems to be no country for old people , while my country is not utopia me and my wife are guaranteed state pensions when we reach that stage like the majority of citizens in this country and that's on top of any other pension one has , everyone gets this including the rich .
One gets free travel and reduced fuel bills and a free TV license on reaching pension age
Citizens also get children's allowances for each child under 18 it's a 140 a month each child .
I've never paid into any medical plan I refuse too , my wife does and it costs a lot I've used state services which are free and it's not perfect but it works .
I work now as a full time artist and I'm entitled to tax free status up to 90,000 euro that's a break to encourage artists to do what there best at .
The country like most is not perfect but I would hate to have to pay for these things we see as rights .
STUPID you are clueless as to what you assume you know. Okay so working people that can't afford the high cost of Obiecare and your Black Helicopter false narrative is true then all the working people are going to lose their jobs and their homes without Medicaid ? TALK about a tinfoil hat conspiracy !!!!!!!!!!!!
Before we had the radical Left buying votes with tax payer money, families used to take care of family.
What a novel idea!
Idiot Liberals like Hillary Clinton came along and made statements like...."it's takes a village to raise a child".
NO, IT TAKES A MOTHER AND FATHER WHO WON'T ABANDOM THEM!
Progressives came along, and decided that resdistributing one man's wages to another, would buy votes. They used the rationale that it was compassionate to care for the irresponsible.
People might actually have some respect for a person that was truly compassionate, but Progressives support no restriction abortions of viable babies for any reason up to birth, so therefore they have no true compassion for even our most innocent!
IT'S ALL POLITICS! It's called ushering in Socialism by getting the people dependent on Big Government.
Obama did a bang up job of adding millions of people to food stamps even though he claimed our economy was doing just fine.
Well, you have to keep in mind Brontoraptor is a wealthy internet entrepreneur legless Cherokee living on a reservation town in Oklahoma. Whether or not that's part of THE 1 percent it's definitely part of a 1 percent of SOMETHING, which can explain his divergent views sometimes. He just isn't from the same world as the rest of us commoners.
The other thing is he probably really really likes the idea of any of us having to beg.
If you take all the families who COULD SUPPORT THEIR PARENTS, but choose to allow the tax payers to do it, we would have very few people begging for charity!
This is how it works, when our nation was not going bankrupt, and famiies understood they would have to help their parents out when they got older, people planned for these inevitable situations.
Along came closet Socialist Democrats who needed to get Americans hooked on Government dependence rather than family dependence.
Now families look for ways to have government support their parents in old age homes, by transfering their parents savings into their own accounts (a few years before needing an old age home) and thereby putting all the burden on tax payers to support the parents.
You know this is true but as good little closet socialists, you like having others support those YOU SHOULD BE SUPPORTING. This way you can keep your parents savings for yourself.
I will make a deal with you. I will support every old person who has no children to rely on, if you agree not to use tax payer money for all those old people who do have families to support them.
I'm not talking about catastophic illness that might cost much more than a family can afford. I'm talking about families taking their parents in their homes rather than expecting tax payer funded old age homes.
Government AS ALWAYS does a terrible job of keeping a budget and keeping costs down. Our nation is going bankrupt case you missed it. We can no longer afford giving everyone the free life.
Many many people are basically selfish and will allow others to bare the burden of the old people rather than they themselves helping their parents.
The problem with Progressives is that they want Government to be the ones supporting everybody. IT CAN NOT WORK! WE ARE GOING BANKRUPT! ALL THOSE OTHER SOCIALIST NATIONS ARE GOING BANKRUPT AS WELL!
You call Conservatives uncaring people when the facts are that Conservtives are the truly compassionate people who would glady support their parents. The sick problem with the Left is that they have taken so much of our income to pay for all their bankrupt social programs, that families have a hard time saving money to support their parents.
1)Why should someone else be forced to pay any of your bills against their will?
2)99.99% of people in human history did not have what you have, much less what you demand.
3)People ARE willing to help you with the costs, so you are being a drama queen.
4)If you refuse to be proactive on the issue, no one is obligated to help someone that never speaks up or asks for help, which would be on you. I know liberals think money and services should instantly fall from the sky, but they don't. You might have to actually act to get what you want or need.
5)Is that hardcore? Yes. Life is hardcore. Life isn't fair, and life isn't easy. Sometimes you have to man up and go get the goodies yourself.
FRAUD you a 74 year old business owner that is an Atheist Jew from Seattle. Now why are you going to run out of money at your age of 74 ? Government benefits plus your Military benefits are all going to dry up ? ROTFFLMMFAO
At one point in the town hall, broadcast from the East Room by ABC news, a woman named Jane Sturm told the story of her 105-year-old mother, who, at 100, was told by an arrhythmia specialist that she was too old for a pacemaker. She ended up getting a second option, and the operation, for which Ms. Sturm credits her survival. "Look, the first thing for all of us to understand that is we actually have some -- some choices to make about how we want to deal with our own end-of-life care," Mr. Obama replied. After discussing ways "we as a culture and as a society [can start] to make better decisions within our own families and for ourselves," he continued that in general "at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what? Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."
Can you believe a DUMMY senator from Chicago knew so much about the health of a people's ? Amazing isn't it
People must learn and/or be taught from an early age to recognise the necessity to make provision for all contingencies including sickness and old age during their wage earning years.
Yes, there should be a benefits safety net for the vulnerable and those who have temporarily fallen on hard times.
But, too many people spend their money on booze, vacations and a lavish lifestyle.
When old age catches up with them, as it will for all of us who are sufficiently lucky, and their lifestyle has left them broke, they bellow, hey, ''Mister Hardworking Taxpayer'', you must provide for me as I blew all my dosh on wine, women and song when I was younger.
Why do these pathetic parasites feel that the world owes them a living?
Excon: the Native American socialized system is evil, but the rest of the country needs it too... Apparently a socialized system is good if you are a liberal, but if you are a conservative Native American, you should give the tribe back the benefits or reject them. What a joke.