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51
81
I am for the wall and MX tax I am against wall and tax
Debate Score:132
Arguments:130
Total Votes:147
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 I am for the wall and MX tax (38)
 
 I am against wall and tax (58)

Debate Creator

Thames(106) pic



Building the border wall and paying with it through 20% tax

The White House on Thursday (Jan. 26, 2017) said President Donald Trump is considering a 20% tax on imports from Mexico to pay for a southern border wall, but that the President is still weighing other options. Is this tax a good option? Is the wall a good idea?

NOTE: I am a teacher and I made this debate for my students. If you are not my student, welcome! Please keep in mind that this is their first conversation about this topic and they barely care about it. They are smart, good people who do not deserve your guile. If you are thoughtful and/or well informed please join me in trying to introduce them to this great conversation. Oh, and listen in on soundcloud. Search for "HThames" to find the class podcast.

I'm not going to call anyone out, but we are not going to call people names in these debates. If you are a guest you are welcome to let the insults fly one last time. If you have trouble understanding why using name-calling is ineffective in an argument, I'd direct you to this essay: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-raise-happy-cooperative-child/201601/name-calling


I am for the wall and MX tax

Side Score: 51
VS.

I am against wall and tax

Side Score: 81
2 points

America cannot continue to be used as a dumping ground for cheap and shoddy Asian goods whilst at the same time permit the unregulated immigration of millions of Mexican illegals and hard core criminals.

How smug the liberal ''do-gooders'' must feel as they try to occupy the moral high ground and spew out their well rehearsed sanctimonious platitudes such as ''build bridges and not walls'' and ''Love Trumps hate''.

They're all very clever play on words but, how in hell's name is the game of smart-ass ''wordplay' going to resolve the ongoing problem of the insidious ''appropriation'' of large tracts of America by Mexican illegal immigrants and violent criminals?

The in vogue, 'yuppie' pastime of the Trump bashing brigade don't realize we're not in a game of any description, we're in the shit right up to our oxters and Donald Trump is big enough to grab the challenge by the horns.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

OK, if you want to bash liberals as stupid, misguided or insidious -------

I'm with you 110%

Unlike illegal immigrants (the peaceful ones) liberals are in fact the greatest threat America faces. They undermine our Constitution with ideas that are essentially socialism. The end of their road is indeed Orwellian.

Most are sheep, unaware of the path they follow and the destruction of freedom waiting at the end. In the lead of this heard of fools, walks the insidious figures who march toward yet another failed attempt at socialistic utopia.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

Daver,

Would you say America is in decline? If so, what is causing our downward spiral?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
2 points

The tax on Mexico could support some of the payment for the wall, and the wall would keep some immigrants out. According to the Federation of American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the approximate cost of immigrants coming illegally over the border is $113 billion. A lot of this money comes from educating children of illegal immigrants, which costs about $52 billion. Also, these immigrants are taking our jobs, being paid under the table by employers for a considerable amount less than minimum wage. This leads to Americans not having jobs and still having to pay taxes with money they don't have or being left on the streets, while immigrants are not having to pay taxes and still getting paid. The wall will keep them out of our great country and give jobs back to our own people.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
kidneymugger(6) Disputed
1 point

What evidence can you provide that the wall actually will keep Mexican immigrants out of the US? Since 2006 we have seen a rise in border patrol agents yet a decline in apprehensions, while the amount of illegal immigrants in the us has yet to go decline.

http://immigration.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=004796

http://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000844

Side: I am against wall and tax
JackGAllen(9) Disputed
1 point

This is a very valid claim. Border patrol does only catch about 40-50% of the immigrants crossing the border. The only answer I can find is that Trump will reinforce the sections of walls already built and then create new sections to fill the gaps. However, I do understand that people are not always the most reliable, and not all of the immigrants will be caught

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
2 points

Okay I know I did one that was against the wall but I was supposed to do an argument for the wall instead so here it is. Okay so as our great and powerful leader TRUMP said, we need to build that wall!!!! Building the wall could help our economy by giving more jobs to American CITIZENS not illegal immigrants!!! The proposed wall would ensure that unemployed and underemployed Americans who have paid taxes in the past will be provided with the economic opportunities they truly deserve. Also to those people Talking about how we already have a wall and a wall that doesn't keep Mexican citizens out, that is EXACTLY why we need this new wall. Yes it may be pricey but overtime it will be rewarding to the US economy and its hardworking citizens. This wall could also create new jobs especially jobs in infrastructure and automation considering Mexico is the place that the US gets those materials and service from. If we stop using their products we can create jobs in those fields here in America instead which will in turn add money to our economy. Also on the topic of cost and the 20% tax here is a good article that explains that and some of the things mentioned here in a clear way. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/donald-trump-mexico-import-tax-border-wall/index.html

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

As all other methods of keeping the Mexican drug gangs, rapists and other criminals out of the U.S.A, have fallen well short of achieving the desired result the construction of an impregnable wall will be an effective measure to, at worst, retard the flow of the filth, and at best, along with increased border security personnel, stop the infestation completely.

As the criminals are spawned in Mexico the onus is squarely and indisputably on the Mexican government to stem the flow of their own garbage into neighbouring countries, but in particular, the United States.

If the Mexican government will not accept their responsibility on this issue and take the necessary measures to control their own marauding criminal gangs then the cost of an effective solution must be imposed upon them.

The proposed 20% additional import tax on Mexican goods and produce will mainly result in a dramatic reduction in the number of American consumers prepared to buy overpriced inferior Mexican imports.

When Mexican exports to America take a nosedive the Mexican administration will, if they have any savie at all, begin the financing of the fence to help keep their own 'homegrown' filth in the Mexican sewers and maybe even try to improve their country so their citizens feel less compelled to flee the shithole.

In case no one noticed, those lowlife greasers who have fled the failed nation of Mexico are turning parts of the United States of America into crime ridden, 'no go zones'.

How the sanctimonious liberals enjoy being members of the trendy cult of Trump bashing.

While the 'hand clasping' liberals feign shock and horror at the building of a much needed security fence they fail totally to present their own feasible alternative plan to stop or control the flow of Mexican crime gangs onto America's streets where they terrorise American citizens and cause misery and the breakdown of what previously was an ordered society.

The U.S.A, is swamped with 11 million illegal immigrants.

The word illegal means;- contrary to, or forbidden by law, so by definition they are criminals.

Those criminal immigrants either do not work or, as they are in the country illegally, cannot pay taxes on their earnings.

The argument that a security fence will split families can be simply remedied by repatriating the criminal immigrants back to their country of origin where their sobbing relations will greet them with backslapping and hugs. They'll be happy, and the hard pressed American citizens will be delighted.

It's a win win situation.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
daver(1771) Disputed
2 points

Your vitriol lends a very unpleasant taste to your argument. While surely there are dangerous criminals coming across our southern borders, along with an unknown number of Islamic Terrorists, they alone are the proper target of righteous anger. What your missing is the distinction that there are the millions of illegal immigrants who have come here simply for a better life. While certainly they are technically criminals, it is ludicrous to liken them to the dangerous, violent, criminals and terrorists who come here to exploit and destroy.

We currently have millions of America citizens who are out of work and needing the benefits of gainful employment. For this reason primarily, we currently have too many immigrants entering our country. The wall will certainly stem this uncontrolled flow and restore/establish a large measure of much needed order to our borders.

In my experience, most Americans want a controlled flow of immigrants coming here to be a part of and share the benefits of our great nation.

It is completely within our power to distinguish between these two categories of illegal immigrants and fully reasonable for us to do so without racial prejudice.

Side: I am against wall and tax
AutLopez(8) Disputed
3 points

I would first like to address a few falsehoods and detracting generalizations in your argument. You continue to paint all illegal immigrants with a very broad brush and refer to them as "filth", "garbage" and my personal favorite "lowlife greasers". While your deep seated concern for American lives is respectable, it is completely unfounded. Out of the 11 million illegal immigrants and the 20 million legal and naturalized immigrants (according to the 2011-2013 immigration statistics) which you can find on http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states only 1.9 million of the total 31 million immigrants have a criminal record. To present that in another fashion, out of the total 31 million legal and illegal immigrants, only 6.1% of them have committed crimes, save for the 11 million coming here undocumented which is moot. That is an incredibly low crime rate for any demographic, especially considering that you have labelled them as "filth" and "garbage". Compare, if you will, this percent to the percent of males in the U.S who have criminal records which is 45%. I would also like to point out that this wall is going to be an ineffective waste of taxpayer dollars. If the goal of the wall is, as you say, to stop the flow of contraband, criminals ect. then instead of capping a brewing wound you should fight it at the source. President Trumps own pick for head of Homeland Security said that a wall will be largely ineffective, and instead funds should be focused on stemming the problem at the source. If you would like to read more of his interview with John McCain you can find it here. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/homeland-security-john-kelly-border-wall.html? r=0

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

Thats a fine answer daver , as an Irishman I and many others worked in America ( a fine country) illegally and legally ; a lot do it short term , long term people normally get legalised , get married , settle and pay back taxes to the government .

We are having the same debates this side of the world most countries have illegals good and bad coming in , I would never demonise people fleeing oppression or dire economic circumstances to feed their families , are any of us any different if we were in their shoes ?

Side: I am against wall and tax
Antrim(1297) Disputed
0 points

Perhaps I inadvertently failed to properly distinguish between the two groups of Mexican criminals, but it must be recognized that those illegal immigrants who are in America to improve their lot in life, are nevertheless criminals, and do so at the expense of American citizens.

Your euphemistic description these unwanted Mexican gypsies, most of whom do not speak English, only serves to give veiled support to their criminal existence in the U.S., and to dilute the reality of the severe hardship they place on the American communities they infest.

They deny American citizens jobs and cause wages to remain low and in many cases well below what is regarded as a livable rate.

You fail to address the fact that the rogue employers of illegal immigrants cannot declare their unlawful presence in America and therefore are unable deduct the ''just and lawful taxes'' from their earnings as all other legitimate employees are legally required to do.

Willful tax evasion is a criminal offence with penalties ranging from heavy fines to prison terms, just the same as Al Capone realized.

The same tax evasion offences apply to those illegal Mexicans parasites who run their own enterprises and leech off American society without putting anything back into the economy.

However, of the two bands of Mexican criminals the ''illegals'' are the lesser of two evils.

The violent Mexican criminal groups which include drug dealers, people traffickers, pimps, protection racketeers etc.etc, are of course by far and away the worst affliction represented by the two forms of the Mexican disease.

No one, including me is recommending to ''raise the drawbridge' but instead, permit the immigration of those Mexicans whose credentials are in order into America and whose professions or trades which cannot be sourced from within will be beneficial to the U.S.A.

My argument does is not racist as I advocate that the same rules be applied to all criminal immigrants including the Irish, the Poles or anyone from whatever nationality who willfully and deceitfully break American immigration laws.

The days of, ''give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses'', have long since come and gone.

America is hurting badly and is clearly on the decline with nations such as China moving to take over the top position of the world's greatest industrial and military power.

The eclipse of America is being accelerated by ''The Mexican Disease'', in both it's guises, and also by the liberal fools, some of whom don't recognize what's happening under their noses and dangerous people such as you who realize what's occurring but shy away from ''calling a spade a spade'' in favour of the same old platitudinous politically correct rhetoric.

What I want from you is your detailed grand plan for redressing the intolerable and unsustainable problem(s) caused by ''THE MEXICAN DISEASE''.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
AnikaDaBeast(6) Disputed
2 points

I would first like to address a few falsehoods and detracting generalizations in your argument. You continue to paint all illegal immigrants with a very broad brush and refer to them as "filth", "garbage" and my personal favorite "lowlife greasers". While your deep seated concern for American lives is respectable, it is completely unfounded. Out of the 11 million illegal immigrants and the 20 million legal and naturalized immigrants (according to the 2011-2013 immigration statistics) which you can find on http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states only 1.9 million of the total 31 million immigrants have a criminal record. To present that in another fashion, out of the total 31 million legal and illegal immigrants, only 6.1% of them have committed crimes, save for the 11 million coming here undocumented which is moot. That is an incredibly low crime rate for any demographic, especially considering that you have labelled them as "filth" and "garbage". Compare, if you will, this percent to the percent of males in the U.S who have criminal records which is 45%. I would also like to point out that this wall is going to be an ineffective waste of taxpayer dollars. If the goal of the wall is, as you say, to stop the flow of contraband, criminals ect. then instead of capping a brewing wound you should fight it at the source. President Trumps own pick for head of Homeland Security said that a wall will be largely ineffective, and instead funds should be focused on stemming the problem at the source. If you would like to read more of his interview with John McCain you can find it here. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/homeland-security-john-kelly-border-wall.html?_r=0

Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

Your main concern seems to be criminality. Can you tell us what percentage of the illegal immigrant population has a criminal record compared to the percentage of the U.S. population with one?

Supporting Evidence: Brennan Center #'s (www.brennancenter.org)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

You don't have any liberal friends? How about family members? It sounds like you hate them. I'm wondering, in your life, where they are. Who are they?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax

I hope you are not one of these activist ideolog teacheers trying to push your politcal views on the children.

There is obviously good reasons for building the wall, and yes I'm sure there will be some downside to the taxes on mexico.

I believe the upside far outweighs the downside.

Either we have borders and laws to protect them, or we have a corrupt Government looking the other way for cheap labor and future votes, while American workers and tax payers are hurt.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
3 points

I'll tell you one thing. I came into this classroom conservative, and left liberal.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
LILLIS(8) Disputed
3 points

Well idk how that happened. I came into the classroom a liberal and left a conservative.

Side: I am against wall and tax
FromWithin(7637) Disputed
1 point

Their's a fool born every day. So you came into a class room with the humanity to care for the viable lives of late term babies, and you left the class room supporting the inhumanity of no restriction abortions?

WOW, SICK!

If you now vote for democrats, YOU ARE SUPPORTING NO RESTRICTION ABORTIONS!

People don't just change their humanity on a classroom exprerience.

Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
2 points

Did you have a teacher that did this? If applicable, have your children had such a teacher?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
FromWithin(7637) Clarified
1 point

Yes, in our school district, the elementary and junior high schools brought in Lesbians to speak to the children telling them about their lives. This is just one example of their PC arrogance.

That is political correct LGBT activism forced into our public schools against the will of the parents.

If you are blind to what is happening in our public schools, please wake up!

Now the usual response from people who pretend to be blind to what is going on, is asking the question, what's wrong with teaching tolerance towards others.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH TEACHING TOLERANCE FOR ALL PEOPLE! No names of special interest groups is needed when you are dealing with impressionable kids.

We have bullying going on every single day towards fat kids, skinny kids, short kids, nerdy kids, black kids, Jewish kids, Christian kids, etc. etc.

There should be NO Gay appreciation days in schools. There should be appreciation days for ALL CHILDREN REGARDLESS WHO THEY ARE!

There is no need for labels especially when sexual orientations are very controversial subjects for many parents.

We will teach our children about controversial subjects as we see fit and when we see fit.

We need no political correct teachers force feeding our children their views on controversial subjects.

This is why Christians and Conservatives speak out against Liberals trying to constantly indoctrinate our children's minds.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

It is about time to build the wall. Our current border "wall" is a series of walls and fences along the US/Mexico border. It is not contiguous, but rather groupings of assorted walls and fences with a "virtual fence" with a system of senors and cameras that the US Border Patrol can monitor. Is this system really efficient? According to the Migration Policy Institute, about 500,000 illegal immigrants cross the border each year and more specifically 484,072 immigrants in 2011 crossed the border. Walls are old news anyways. Romans built Hadrian's Wall about 120 AD to protect the Roman province of Britain from the "heathens" or "barbarians" who lived in what is now present day Scotland. The Peace Walls in Belfast, Ireland were built to ease tensions between neighboring communities. The walls stopped murders during the "Troubles" period from 1968-1998. Eventually communities subsided and now are on peaceful terms. Isreal built walls to separate themselves from Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Giza. The Israel Defenses Force has released information that in areas where the wall has been completed terrorist attacks and invasions have dramatically declined. Hungary is even on track to build a border wall to keep out would be immigrants. America, it is time we learn from meager fences and build a solid,impenetrable and YUGE border to keep out these "Bad Hombres". Let's face it America, the wall just got 10 feet higher.

Supporting Evidence: Source (www.cnn.com)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
AutLopez(8) Disputed
1 point

To continue with your theme of using historical examples of walls, think back to the Great Wall of China that was roughly 50 feet tall and 900 miles long. Even with China's invaders primitive technology, they were still able to overcome the massive barrier The fact of the matter is, walls ARE old news and we shouldn't try to re-vamp antiquated methods that have proven ineffective. Also, not as many "Bad Hombres" are crossing our border to begin with; certainly not enough to warrant a 25 billion dollar wall. Less than 7% of ALL immigrants (legal and illegal, Mexican born or otherwise) have criminal records.

Side: I am against wall and tax
reannp(7) Disputed
1 point

There is no such thing as an impenetrable wall. If someone is determined to cross into United States borders, they will do anything. The US already tried having fences to separate borders in some areas but this was proven ineffective. That wall cost $7 billion that ultimately went to waste. Why would we need to build a bigger wall that costs over twice as much when it won't work? The bigger wall may reduce the amount of people that cross over, but it won't keep all of the immigrants out. This large wall will cause even more Americans to live in a "no mans land." No mans land is when American property has been cut by previous border patrol walls and now has its residents feeling like prisoners. Not only will this wall not work, but it will also entrap American citizens living on the Southern border.

Supporting Evidence: Donald Trump's Mexico wall (www.bbc.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

The wall is a brilliant idea. A lot of immigrants come to America and take jobs , such as, maids, taxi drivers, janitors, and construction workers. This wall will not only prevent them from coming over to our land to take our jobs, but to motivate them to develop their own jobs and stuff. Also some of these immigrants flee from there country because of their criminal background. This increases the crime rate due to the Mexican rapists, gang bangers, and etc. The wall is simply decreasing the amount of problems that we have with immigrants in our country now.

Supporting Evidence: Jobs immigrants are taking. (cis.org)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
istrickler(7) Disputed
1 point

The wall is not brilliant. America already has a wall. Trump's wall will cost $49 billion dollars and only has a lifespan of 25 years...who's going to be paying for this? Trump's bright idea is to for Mexico to pay it but there President said no. The problem with the existing wall isn't the structure but that illegals have figured out a way to go over it,, around it, and under it. So what's going to stop them from continuing to do so. The wall will not solve any problems. There needs to be tougher legislation on illegals, regulations on visas, and a non-tolerance for these policies that are already in place!!!

Supporting Evidence: Why A Wall Won't Keep America's Newest Immigrants Out (www.washingtonpost.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
eliacupp(12) Disputed
1 point

Sure, these are good arguments, but what about the fact that:

The tax will make Mexican goods more expensive, and with stagnated wages, harm trade between the US and Mexico.

The wall will run north into the US because of geographical problems, and even leave gaps open along the border.

There are other ways to get into the US!! What's to stop them from going right around our expensive wall?

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

The wall is more than just protectionism. Any sovereign nation has the right and in some cases must choose who is allowed into its land. A vast a majority of immigrants have little to contribute to our economy and although they will end up spending money, eventually, most of them are sending a majority of their cash back to their families. It is also unfair to Hispanics that have crossed the border legally. It is not just the typical white beer bellied american male that gets hurt but legal immigrants lose work when an illegal is doing the work for nearly nothing. A more secure border and an improvement to the immigration system that will encourage more immigrants to cross legally is needed.

https://www.allaboutpolitics.com/why-might-building-a-border-wall-be-a-good-idea/political-article

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
ahoang(5) Disputed
1 point

What is the wall protecting us from? Immigrants correct? If anything we're probably more of a threat to ourselves at the moment than immigrants. It is unfair to the Hispanics who have crossed the border legally, but the illegal immigrants had to get here somehow. Once they did they're just trying to fulfill what they any immigrant came here to do. I suppose that we're paying for the wall to be built with 20% tax on Mexican goods is fair. Its extremely fair to the people for TPP like me.

Supporting Evidence: The Real Threat (thefederalist.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
AnikaDaBeast(6) Disputed
1 point

Actually, a vast majority of immigrants significantly contribute to the economy. "The economy could not have grown as much in the 1990s if there were no immigrants. It is estimated that 22 percent of construction workers are foreign, with 2.4 million immigrants working in the sector. If illegal immigrants were taken out of this system then the costs of housing would go up." Illegal immigration should be prevented because it is not fair to the others, however a wall cannot prevent that. Do not forgot how much contribution immigrants have had to our country. We low-key need them, and the government low-key takes advantage of them.

Side: I am against wall and tax

The Wall is a good idea for the fact that it protects our borders and allows the United States government to fulfill its duty of serving its own citizens. There can be many arguments against the wall such as a raise in the price of Mexican imports, a division between nations, and the fact that some data shows that immigrants are not that bad for the economy. While i do acknowledge these reasons, I do not agree that illigal immigrants deserve the right to enter our country. They create competition, but at the end of the day if they are stealing our citizens lower class jobs because they are willing to work for cheaper we are losing out as a country. They are avoiding federal taxes and leaving many lower class citizens reliant on welfare. In addition, not all the money they make is going back into our economy. A good amount of it is sent back to families in Mexico. Trump has provided us a way to pay to protect our borders with minimal repercussions, not to say there are none at all. We need to come to the realization as a country that while it is okay to sympathize with those less fortunate, we need to keep our own safety and economical interests on the forefront.

Supporting Evidence: Immigrants (www.nakedcapitalism.com)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

The issue of remittances is interesting. Please make an argument based on the outflow of cash and savings from the U.S. economy to the Mexican.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
Johnmarquez4(14) Clarified
1 point

In 2015, Mexico had $24.8 billion in remittance revenues. A crazy stat about that number... It is more than amount of income of their oil revenue. Almost all of this remittance stems from the United States economy. While not all of this is from illegal immigrants, they do play a major role in this staggering number which continues to rise. It rose 4.75% from 2014 to 2015.

Supporting Evidence: Mexico Remittance (www.nbcnews.com)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

Building a barrier along a border is a security tactic that has proved successful for several countries, one being Israel. According to David Horowitz of The Conservative Review, between 2000 and 2005 1,000 Israelites were murdered by Hamas terrorists. After the implementation of the Israeli West Bank barrier, this figure dropped 90%. In the United States, these results would be proportional to a near end to the drug trade. This plan, at no cost to the American people, is the absolute best way to keep citizens safe.

Supporting Evidence: o (immigration.procon.org)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
huntermace(12) Disputed
2 points

Just building a wall will not cut it. It sounds good and gets people excited, but it is not very simple. A wall stretching for hundreds of miles will stil require 24 hour surveillance by Border Patrol, because illegal immigrants will find a way to get over, through, or around the wall. Logistically, replacing a fence with a presumably opaque wall will only hinder the surveillance aspect of border patrol. The reality is, a wall or fence can't track or apprehend anyone. Not only that, but 40% of illegal immigrants fly to the America then overstay their visas. A wall would do nothing to combat this aspect of illegal immigration.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

The wall would not be a good barrier against immigrants. We already have a wall in some places, and it does not keep them out. The bigger the wall, the bigger the ladders will get. No matter how far wide and deep it is, the wall can not fully keep immigrants out. Also, Mexico is our 3rd biggest partner in trade. If we upset Mexico, we could pay more for imports or lose valueable goods.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Building a border wall would decrease the number of illegal immigrants coming into the United States. Over half of the 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico. These undocumented people are able to avoid paying federal tax. Because these immigrants are willing to work for maybe $24,000 per household, and average lower class Americans are not, the Mexicans take jobs from lower class workers by lowering the price of labor. Also, thousand of tons of illegal drugs are smuggled across the border (as seen in the link below), and a border wall would significantly decrease the accessibility of this illegal import.

Supporting Evidence: Drugs from Mexico (www.nbcnews.com)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

The wall may not be the best idea for Mexico but it has some strong points. Not only would it decrease the amount of drugs smuggled into America but it would further protect American sovereignty. Americans spent close to $100billion on drugs every year according to a White House report . In 2014 34,840 pounds of meth were confiscated from Mexican cartels. Keep in mind this is only the amount that was found the drugs not found slowly feed into the black market. And sure with marijuana slowly becoming legalized this number will fall. Although I don't foresee hard drugs becoming legalized in the near future, so this is still a problem. Building this wall would prevent this amount of drugs from entering our country and polluting our fellow Americans.

This wall needs to be build primary for internal reasons such as establishing sovereignty over ungoverned or unruly lands, and protect America's wealth. Mexico may. It like the 20% tax but in the long run it will be beneficial to our country as well as theirs.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
floradedeaux(11) Disputed
2 points

Immigrants are all generalized as rapists and drug dealers, but in reality there's no sufficient evidence to prove so. A very small percentage of the 11 million illegal immigrants actually have a criminal record.

Some drugs may come from Mexico, but I wouldn't say it's entirely the immigrants' fault that the Americans are buying their drugs. After all, they're not forcing our "fellow Americans" to buy these drugs. These American citizens would find a way to buy them if they really wanted them, whether they're from Mexico or not.

Also, a 20% tax on Mexico imports wouldn't be a sufficient way to pay for the wall. With the wall's estimate around $25 billion, the funds would take YEARS to collect. People won't buy as many Mexican imports if there's an enormous tax on them, simple as that. Plus, Donald Trump claimed "Mexico would pay for the wall," but in reality, it's the Americans that are paying, both economically and socially.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

I contend that building a wall along our border with Mexico would be an effective method of halting illegal immigration and that a tariff on Mexican goods would be a viable option for garnering the funds needed to pay for it.

First, it's of great importance that I provide solid evidence that a border wall would be effective. I'd like to offer Israel's tale as evidence. In 2000 the Israeli government began construction of the Israeli West Bank barrier, a border wall similar in style to the one currently proposed by Donald J. Trump, with the purpose of curtailing violent Palestinian incursions. During the first three years of construction, 73 suicide bombings occurred but in the following three years that number fell to 12. The drop in suicide bombings can almost certainly be attributed to the security barrier. Furthermore, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tweeted "President Trump is right. I built a wall along Israel's southern border. It stopped all illegal immigration. Great success. Great idea" on January 28th, backing my aforesaid claim. It should be noted that the Israeli West Bank Barrier is only about a quarter of the length of the US-Mexico border at 410 miles to the border's 1,900 miles but the larger scale of the proposed wall won't necessarily decrease it's effectiveness in comparison to the Israeli security barrier.

The next issue to touch base on is the 20% tariff. There are three primary concerns with the tariff. Will it pay for the wall? What effect will it have on prices? What will Mexico's response be? To answer the first, the United States imported $303 billion worth of Mexican goods in 2015. Twenty-percent of that is about $60 billion, three times the amount that is expected to be required for the wall. Obviously US imports from Mexico in the coming year should be at least a third of those in 2015 which, yes, would pay for it. In regard to the second question, Mexico does export a number of different products to the US and the prices of those would be increased for the duration of the tariff, but for most, the brief spike in prices would be well worth the benefit of a secure Southern border. To answer the final question, Mexico is in no position to be belligerent with the United States, especially when it comes to counter-tariffs, if it hopes to come away from this unscathed (aside from the initial US tariff). Eighty-percent of Mexican exports are to the US and any prolonged trade war would cripple Mexico's economy. Questions?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
JackGAllen(9) Disputed
0 points

While the Israeli wall was very effective in practice, it was actually labeled as illegal by the International Court of Law and the United Nations because it cut people off from resources and I feel the same will happen with this wall.

Side: I am against wall and tax
DKrent(17) Clarified
2 points

Do you have any sources that I could see so I understand your view, and would this cut off Americans, Mexicans, or both from resources?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
SirDrPrf(2) Disputed
1 point

We're the only credible enforcer of international law, therefore, we're above it (at least practically speaking though perhaps not ethically). Besides, the planned wall can be built on our side of the border to avoid cutting off Mexican territory.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

What type of country do most citizens want to live in? Do citizens really want to live in a country that just lets people (who are not even citizens of that country) come and go as they please? Accodrding to Joseph S. Nye, Jr. there are three types of powers in thei world, economic, military, and soft power. Building a larger and better wall will be very beneficial towards our country in those three powers. While building a wall will be great for protection, the wall will also be a great start to getting our country back. An estimated 90-100 million working-age Americans are out of the workforce. Building a secure border is the first step to getting our country back.

https://www.allaboutpolitics.com/why-might-building-a-border-wall-be-a-good-idea/political-article

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
floradedeaux(11) Disputed
2 points

America is a country that has been founded by and built by immigrants. I'm not saying that it is okay to have swarms of illegal immigrants in our country, but there are many misconceptions about them, and it's unfair and illogical to discredit their fundamental role in the nature of our country.

Also, globalization is a good thing. Opening borders and allowing trade between different parts of the world can only benefit us in the long run. Power does not mean cutting our nation off from the rest of the world; power does not mean adopting the protectionist, overly nationalistic mindset and doing our best to ignore the rest of the world.

One thing to think about involving the labor argument is that automation and outsourcing are the main causes of unemployment; not immigrants. People claim that "immigrants are taking their jobs," but a lot of times in reality, they're jobs these people would never even think of doing.

Side: I am against wall and tax
4 points

Wouldn't that just increase the price of the products that are "Hecho en Mexico"?

Side: I am against wall and tax
7 points

Exactly. It's the most stupid proposal I've heard from a world leader.

Trump says that Mexico will pay for it... so what does he do? He implements a 20% import tax... which means that AMERICANS will have to pay more for Mexican goods! And therefore, AMERICANS are paying for the wall!

For someone who claims to be an amazing businessman, he's not very good at, well, being a businessman.

Side: I am against wall and tax
Mint_tea(4031) Clarified
1 point

Trump claims to be the best at everything. Doesn't mean he is.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
outlaw60(15500) Disputed
0 points

Well Nick you aren't to bright not excepted you would be. Want to take a trip back to 2009 ? Yes we will !

In one of his first major decisions on trade policy, President Obama opted Friday to impose a tariff on tires from China, a move that fulfills his campaign promise to "crack down" on imports that unfairly undermine American workers but risks angering the nation's second-largest trading partner.

The decision is intended to bolster the ailing U.S. tire industry, in which more than 5,000 jobs have been lost over the past five years as the volume of Chinese tires in the market has tripled.

It comes at a sensitive time, however. Leaders from the world's largest economies are preparing to gather in Pittsburgh in less than two weeks to discuss more cooperation amid tensions over trade.

The tire tariff will amount to 35 percent the first year, 30 percent the second and 25 percent the third.

Although a federal trade panel had recommended higher levies -- of 55, 45 and 35 percent, respectively -- the decision is considered a victory for the United Steelworkers union, which filed the trade complaint.

Americans didn't pay more under Obama for tires ? Did you miss that fact in 2009 there Nick ?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
3 points

It's a good question and a worthy debate topic .

Its actually incredible when one seriously hears Americans talk about building walls and also somewhat scary ,is this seriously the best way to approach the immigration problem ?

What are other possible solutions that may work ?

I've never before heard Americans talking about building walls despite the problem of illegal immigrants , there seems to be a shift in attitudes as this idea gains more social acceptance .

Who knows if the US go ahead maybe other countries will follow most countries have problems with illegal immigrants ( we do also ) I would hate the idea of a wall though .

A large proportion of illegal immigrants are actually necessary for the U S economy and that's going on US state department findings supported by PEW research .

Regarding a tax for building the wall I agree with Cartmans statement on that .

Side: I am against wall and tax
outlaw60(15500) Disputed
1 point

Large portions of illegals are good for what country ? Is there a reason Mexico has a fence between them and Guatemala ? Must be illegals are not good for their country !

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
Dermot(5453) Disputed
1 point

For the US you idiot , can you not read now ?

I've already stated your own state department admits this , how come it takes a European to educate you on what your own state departments say ?

If the Mexicans have a fence and their neighbours are good for them economically so what ?

How does that effect what your own state department claimed about illegal farm labour and its benefits to employers ?

Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Disputed
1 point

Look into the demographic argument. According to Joseph Nye, millions of people wanting to add to our population gives us an advantage that China, Europe, and OECD countries as a whole don't have when facing increasing entitlements costs and falling populations. He would be for legalizing the 11 million "illegals" who are here with a crime rate far below the native population's (U.S.--22% of U.S. citizens have a criminal record; "Illegals"-2%; Legal immigrants-6%. Nye will lay out their contributions in positive terms (patents, business ownership, advanced degrees, etc.).

Supporting Evidence: Nye's argument (www.hks.harvard.edu)
Side: I am against wall and tax
3 points

As stated in the title of the debate, the tariff on Mexican goods will increase between 5-20%. Without Mexico increasing the tariffs on the United Sates goods, the citizens of the United States would end up paying for the wall anyways. It is almost guaranteed that Mexico will increase the tariffs on the United States goods. Whether Mexico's raised tariffs exceed or meet the tariffs of the United States, neither one will have a positive impact. If President Trump starts to increase the tariffs on Mexico, Mexico will retaliate/emulate and the system "will begin to unravel." The taxing that President Trump is referring to is value-added taxes. Although President Trump is saying that these taxes are helpful, these type of taxes actually discourage imports and subsidize exports. So, I believe that the wall would be a burden to our economy, and would in the long run weaken our ties with Mexico because of the potential war between tariffs.

Supporting Evidence: "Building a Wall of Ignorance" (www.nytimes.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

The taxing that President Trump is referring to is value-added taxes. Although President Trump is saying that these taxes are helpful, these type of taxes actually discourage imports and subsidize exports.

Can you explain what these sentences mean? What are value-added taxes and how do they discourage imports? How do they result in being a burden to our economy?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
2 points

Building a wall and taxing Mexico for it is not a good idea. The wall would not only cut us off from Mexico physically, but also in trade.

First off, the wall is considering being built because of opinions, not the facts. POTUS wants to build the wall to keep illegal immigrants out of America. He thinks they are coming across in droves, and the aliens are stealing our higher paying jobs. This is not true. To start, most aliens come to america through the air. Only a small portion come through the Mexican-US border. Also, not all people coming through the border are Mexican, they are also from Central and South America.

Second, if we tax Mexico the 20%, they turn right back on us and increase their tax on us. This would cause Americans to pay more on Mexican imports. These imports include: cars, machinery, medical instruments, and agriculture. Mexico accounts for $21 billion dollars of America's agriculture being imported in. The tax would also increase the cost of cars, the cost of cars is up 2.6% anyway. Adding more tax, would make less left in our pockets.

The wall is a terrible idea, not only for its physical presence but its economical presence too. The wall will cost Americans money, maybe not to build the wall, but in the increase of taxing on goods from Mexico. Our cost of some essentials like cars and some agriculture will increase causing us to pay more than we do now.

Supporting Evidence: How the 20% tax will cost us (www.usatoday.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
Johnmarquez4(14) Disputed
1 point

These are pretty solid selling points, but Mexico isn't our only source of these products. in addition the governments biggest job is to protect its own people, and these immigrants hinder that ability by taking jobs and avoiding Federal taxes. While prices of Mexican imports will rise, that is a price well worth paying when considering the benefits of keeping our borders under control.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
2 points

Mexico is our third largest trading partner with nearly $300 billion worth of Mexican imports coming into the US in 2015. The wall tariff would increase the cost of American manufactured goods. Vehicle parts, computers, electronics, vegetables, and oil are a few imports that could cost 20% more. American taxpayers would be paying the price for a 20% tax on all Mexican imports, not Mexico. The cost of the tariff would be passed on to US consumers, manufacturers, exporters and importers.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cleveland.com/articles/20054849/trump walltaxleavessour_tas.amp?client=safari

Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
2 points

Clearly said and supported! You could be more specific in what products we'd be spending more on.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

First, I'm not really against the wall. Security is security.

But I am against 1) knuckleheads getting all amped up about it, 2) ignorance is bliss of all the good things that come from the cheap labor source of immigrants, and 3) all the ugly hateful rhetoric directed at foreigners or other cultures.

Second, my issue with the tax is that's basically a steep tariff, and tariffs have been shown repeatedly in history to hurt economies. Trump already killed TPP, next he's going after NAFTA, and tied to that you now have this tariff on imports to pay for a stupid wall which will likely just get defeated like almost any other wall in history.

We'll be looking back on this in a couple years and talking about the total folly that it all was.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

There are several issues coinciding with building a wall around the border of Mexico. Primarily these are cost, effectiveness, national image. Firstly, the Mexican border spans about 1,989 miles long, but the question isn't if it can be done but how much it would cost. It's currently estimated that it would cost $49 billion dollars with only a life span of 25 years (costing each American $140.91). Which may not seem like a lot but we must take into consideration unemployed, infants, elderly and people who simply cannot afford this which would make this price rise. There are three main faults in this idea. The wall has a beginning and an end, meaning regardless of how tall the wall is, those who want to get around it could simply go to the end and come in that way. The problem with the existing wall isn't the structure but the illegals are tunneling under it, so who's to stop them from tunneling under our $49 billion dollar wall? A wall will not stop illegal immigration (seeing to that more illegals come through Canada than Mexico). The wall is a Band-Aid on a bigger wound. If we were to build a permanent wall, it would need to be constructed so people cannot go around it, over it, or under it and would need to be constantly monitored from both sides. With that being said, the wall is idealistic for this solution, what America needs is tougher legislation on illegals, regulations on visas, and a non-tolerance for those breaking these policies.

Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

You didn't cite a source! What is the "bigger wound?"

What would "tougher legislation" look like? Are there examples you can take from other countries?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

If we build this wall between the US and Mexico, we would be possibly eliminating one source of income to our economy. If the plan is to raise the tariffs on imports and Mexico is one country that imports goods from us then we would lose money for our economy. Also this could lead to many problems in the US because many Mexican-American families would be separated. If the plan is to use tax dollars to pay start paying for the wall, then I think that would be turned down if it came to a vote. Along with many people not agreeing with the wall being put up, many wouldn't want to spend tax dollars to have it done.

Supporting Evidence: Mexican Wall (foreignpolicy.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

How does separating us from a country that our economy relies on make any sense??? Let's reflect on how many times the US has done awful things like this such as Chinese exclusions, the Nationality Quotas Act, Japanese internment and closing doors to Jewish refugees fleeing murderous Nazi persecution. Building a wall will not necessarily keep anyone out or protect the US in fact this wall really does nothing except waste taxpayer money that WON'T be paid back by Mexico, despite Trump's claims.

As many as half of unauthorized immigrants in the United States are people who overstay their visas, not border crossers. Barriers also result in more deaths because people try to cross the border at the most inhospitable and unwalled places.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

It is important to use the funds that would go to a wall that would only serve as a political symbol and a put a dent in our relationship with Mexico to focus on apprehending all illegal immigrants, almost half of which are already within our borders. The wall would do nothing but stir up controversy and divide our country over the issue.

Side: I am against wall and tax
Travisb(3) Disputed
1 point

The wall will do great things for our country... Seriously open your eyes Hunter, the wall is much more than just a "political symbol". I agree with you that we should apprehend all illegal immigrants, but the wall is the only way we can do that.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

Building a border wall will have many negative effects and the wall is unnecessary. Mexico has been a beneficial factor to the United States economy and building a wall could potentially risk our relationship with them. Building a wall will divide these two nations and could cause for Mexico to feel as we are using a defense mechanism against them. Mexico could potentially raise tariffs on their goods and United States gas prices will go up.

There is also the problem in how the building of this wall is going to be funded. President Trump claims that Mexico will pay for it. However, the Mexican president has outright refused to pay for the wall and he says "there is no scenario" for Mexico to have to pay for the wall. The price of paying for this wall will ultimately fall on the shoulders of the American people and will cause for an increase in taxes. This wall will cost $15-20 billion or more that the United States does not have.

Supporting Evidence: Problems with the wall (www.businessinsider.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

How has Mexico been a "beneficial factor?" How can you say what you mean differently? (beneficial factor doesn't roll off the tongue!)

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
reannp(7) Clarified
2 points

What I was trying to say is that Mexico holds the resources that the United States wants. The United States imports vehicles, electrical machinery, other machinery, mineral fuels, medical instruments, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, wine, beer, snacks and other processed foods all from Mexico. All of the things we import from Mexico add up to be over $200 billion. A lot of the things that people in the United States use on a daily basis in order to have businesses or to live a normal life come from Mexico.

Supporting Evidence: US imports from Mexico (www.businessinsider.com)
Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

The simple idea of building a wall between Mexico and the US is much more complicated than one would suspect, yet the wall is a preposterous idea that should not be entertained. Already, the United States attempted a similar idea in 2006 with the fence that currently resides near the border. This past failure shows that this idea has failed once, and a mistake is to be learned from. In that respect, the government rested the project after a billion dollars wasted from the US people, and to compare to the 40M expected to cost of Trump's wall according to MIT researchers, the economic effect is disastrous. Additionally, supporters argue that funds will also be taken from tariffs present on Mexican goods, yet the gradual effect that this will cause is not to be taken lightly. Mexico will suffer from the increased tariffs as raise prices, eventually leaving American companies to source from other locations and cause Mexican economy to suffer further. The tax and wall are both outlandish ideas of a foolhardy president.

Supporting Evidence: Source #1 (www.nytimes.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

Can you paint a picture of American companies sourcing from other locations and cause MX economy to suffer further?

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

llegal border crossings are now actually at their lowest levels. This is in part due to improved job opportunities in Mexico. The biggest problem between the US and Mexico is drug trade. Drug cartels in Mexico utilize drug mules, tunnels, boats, vehicles, trains, aircrafts, donkeys, and couriers to get illegal drugs into America. Mexican drug cartels make an estimated $19-$29 billion a year on drug sales in the United States. Mexico is the number one foreign supplier of marijuana to the United States, and marijuana is thought to be the top revenue generator for Mexican drug cartels. The biggest problem between the US and Mexico, is the drug trade fueled by US drug demand.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.therecoveryvillage.com/drug-addiction/drug-trafficking-by-the-numbers/amp/?client=safari

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cleveland.com/articles/20054849/trump walltaxleavessourtas.amp?client=safari

Side: I am against wall and tax
DKrent(17) Clarified
1 point

Would this wall not slow or even prevent incoming drugs and the crimanials who are smuggling them? When the original wall was established the amount of drugs confiscated dropped slightly.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
kidneymugger(6) Clarified
1 point

I'm totally for securing our borders, but like I said in my original post, drugs get smuggled into the US in a plethora of ways. Building a wall won't stop that. A few solution to border security requires a combination of technology, infrastructure and agents.

The fact that you have a house, would that stop a burglar from coming in?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/border-patrol-officers-us-mexico-border- wall/?client=safari

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

So let's talk about this wall.... why are we building it? Jobs. Well according to the New York Times Immigrants Arent taking jobs. So what's the true motive? Since America was first coined a "melting pot" it was supposed to be the location for economic opportunity and prosperity however in the Mexican communities are in low-wage markets. In fact, immigrants actually improve the economy the longer they stay here. So... if Mexicans arent taking jobs, and only contributing to economy through the many taxes on food and clothes and only help create jobs then maybe the wall isn't about the economy at all. In fact highly skilled immigrants is what truly keep this country running. And just a little side note 40% of Mexicans fly here and outstay their visa so unless some people take off their rose colored glasses they're just going to have to wait for the big wall in the sky to free them from the Mexicans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/immigrants-arent-taking-americans-jobs-new-study-finds.html?_r=0

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

You make a lot of claims. Slow down and show the reader some data to support them. The links help, but the reader needs a few details from the source you've found and summarize.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

I am absolutely for securing our borders and decreasing immigration. We should be able to properly vet and register immigrants to maximize their chances for success in America, give piece of mind to the American people already here, and have the immigrants perform tasks that all American citizens are required to do. With that being said, I disagree that the wall is the best solution. With the hundreds of miles of land that the wall would have to cover and the cost, there must be a more cost efficient and more effective way to secure our borders.

Trump's cabinet pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security, John Kelly, has advocated for a mult-ipronged approach to border security. An example of this type of plan would be the Integrated Fixed Towers program introduced to Congress in 2016 by US Customs and Border Protection. The program uses towers mounted with many different cameras and sensors and is solar powered. The program proposes 52 towers and each would cost $145 million per tower. This program would allow human patrolmen to monitor hundreds of miles of rough terrain at once, making it very efficient in spotting any kind of activity. This type of strategy may not be as sexy, but it is preventative and actionable.

Supporting Evidence: Technology instead of Wall (www.wired.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

I am absolutely for securing our borders and decreasing immigration. We should be able to properly vet and register immigrants to maximize their chances for success in America, give piece of mind to the American people already here, and have the immigrants perform tasks that all American citizens are required to do. With that being said, I disagree that the wall is the best solution. With the hundreds of miles of land that the wall would have to cover and the cost, there must be a more cost efficient and more effective way to secure our borders.

Trump's cabinet pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security, John Kelly, has advocated for a mult-ipronged approach to border security. An example of this type of plan would be the Integrated Fixed Towers program introduced to Congress in 2016 by US Customs and Border Protection. The program uses towers mounted with many different cameras and sensors and is solar powered. The program proposes 52 towers and each would cost $145 million per tower. This program would allow human patrolmen to monitor hundreds of miles of rough terrain at once, making it very efficient in spotting any kind of activity. This type of strategy may not be as sexy, but it is preventative and actionable.

Supporting Evidence: Technology instead of Wall (www.wired.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
Thames(106) Clarified
1 point

I like how you don't question the opposition's intent and assert your values instead (and find common ground). You go on to offer a constructive alternative.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
1 point

The whole reason for the implementation of the wall is for the increased security on illegal immigrants from Mexico. Trump has generalised the immigrants as," rapists and criminals". His argument is based on the accusation that all of the immigrants coming from Mexico will create an unsafe environment in our country. Even though there is a part of the immigrants that do have a criminal record it does match with his description of them. The facts show that only 6.5 to 7 percent of all these immigrants has a criminal record and have been convicted of the crime. This does not compare to the 40 percent of white males that have records and 50 percent African American males that have records, which all are US citizens.Mexican illegal detainment has also stepped up its illegal immigration capture rate from central American countries. This decreases the flow of immigrants trying to come into our country that also contributes to our assumption that the illegals coming over the border are all Mexican.

The building of the wall is not a cheap operation to carry out. The US Senate has stated that the wall could cost anywhere from 15 to 25 Billion dollars to cost. Trump has stated that Mexico will be the country to will pay for the wall in the end. He plans on doing this by implementing a 20 percent tax on all goods that are exported from Mexico to the US. Even though this is a good idea in thought but the implementation it will have on us US citizens will be big. The tax on these goods will in correlation raise the price it will cost us to purchase these goods at the stores. Mexico is our third largest trading partner with a trading total of 500 billion dollars a year. The largest export from Mexico is car parts which can be an expensive and complicated taxing process. The majority of mexican parts are not finished products but are shipped over for final assembly in the US. This will make mexican companies raise their prices so that they can make a profit making it less appealing for US companies to buy from Mexico.

The separation of two countries also goes against the general trend of globalisation. We would be fragmenting from Mexico in a way decreasing the amount of trade. The wall construction and the leaving of the TTP will decrease the flow of goods and products from what it could be.

Supporting Evidence: USA Today articles on Illegal crime rate (www.usatoday.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

The border wall between Mexico and America is an ineffective solution to illegal immigration and a monumental waste of the projected 25 Billion dollars it will cost to build it. The hard truth is, this wall is addressing immigration under a false impression of the "harm" it is doing. According to the Census' American Community Survey approximately half of mexico's illegal migrants 25 and older hold a bachelors degree or higher. These are people that will benefit our economy, that will own small businesses and create opportunities for all Americans. Also, only 12% of immigrants coming to the U.S are from mexico. To invest this monumental amount of money on an issue this small is illogical. The status quo is a big enough slow on immigration. Since the Great Recession the need for low skilled workers has stemmed which has slowed the amount of immigrants coming into America. We do not need a 25 billion dollar wall. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/20/why-a-wall-wont-keep-americas-newest-immigrants-out/?utm_term=.fb5d29322b0a

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Although there is no set answer, there are too many faults in the endeavor of building an 'impenetrable' wall along the US/Mexico border. Is it realistic that a 2000 mile long wall will be built, when factoring in the major geographical issues, tremendous cost, and possible ineffectiveness that this wall could cause?

During the 2nd term of former president George W. Bush, congress authorized that hundreds of miles of fencing would be built along the border. Even with this much less intimidating endeavor, there were many obstacles. Because of issues of treaties and flood zones, construction is forced to move north into the US. However, many private land owners were not interested in buyouts. If this is the case, ethics comes into play. Will this land be taken forcefully to fulfill the need of the wall? Can it? And if not, what are the alternative solutions to work around these areas?

We've all heard the statistics about the wall many times. About 2000 miles long, stretching across four states, and the mentioned costs have ranged from about ten billion to twenty-five billion. Realistically, the costs seem to favor the latter. Not only this, but the 20% increase on imported Mexican goods will not only possibly cause an outrage, but also make everyday living more difficult, especially since American wages have stagnated in the past few decades. Now, there are quite a few arguments to challenge this, but the question remains. Will the possible ineffectiveness of the wall make this tariff worth it?

As I said before, the Bush administration built fencing along the border that was meant to do the same job. Keep illegal immigrants out. However, this was merely an obstacle for the masses of immigrants who found their way over. Although there is the argument that the fencing can not be compared to the wall in security standards, a desperate family will find a way into the US. The wall merely stands in the way, but it can only do so much against the ones who have their mind set to get out of the country.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Building a new wall will not stop people from Mexico wanting to get over to America. We already have a barrier in between the two countries that covers about 700 miles out of almost 2000 miles of border. This may not seem like a lot at first but about half of the border has its own natural barriers like the Sonoran Desert which see hundreds of deaths from people trying to cross it. Not only that but the wall we already have in place does not have a good success rate at stopping people from coming over illegally. With about 7.8M illegal immigrants in the U.S. reported from 2009-2013 who were born in Mexico or other Central American countries compared to a measly 421,000 border apprehensions in 2013.

Supporting Evidence: migrationpolicy.org statistics (www.migrationpolicy.org)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

The argument at hand is not so much if we should build a wall, its should we tear down the current border wall and replace it with an "updated" version. Either way, the answer is no. The current border wall ,which was built between 1996 and 2006, took 6 billion dollars. 10 years and a large sum of money for a wall that thousands of people cross monthly. Taking a look at Trumps proposed wall, the cost ranges from 15 to 25 billion dollars. That is almost quadruple the cost of the current border. This does not add the cost of the annual maintenance that will be needed and the pay for the deconstruction of the current wall. The 20% tariff may seem like a good idea on the outside, but this will only hurt consumers in the long run. Mexico is one of the United States largest source of imports and exports. Imposing a 20% tax will increase the price on many goods. In terms of business, this will hurt many companies that rely on selling their goods. This will also hurt the average consumer by costing them more money for the items they use daily. This also brings in the question of how long the tariff is supposed to last. The current border took 10 years. How would a tax of that size impact the economy of the United Stated over the period of time taken to build it? Both of these questions are imperative when discussing the situation at hand. The wall will not benefit the United States in any way especially not economically. In conclusion, the border wall is not a good idea.

Supporting Evidence: The economics of Donald Trump’s wall (www.economist.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Building a wall is ridiculous and paying it through 20% tax is absurd. There's going to be an increase on Mexican goods coming into the United States, which could lead to tariffs by Mexico for incoming goods from the United States.

( https://youtu.be/D8NrjXcwuM )

Do we really need a wall? Did we even need the fence. America is supposedly "the land of the free" right? Immigrants come over here so that they can have a better life, but creating a wall will only prevent them from coming over. Which serves the purpose of building the wall, but why? According to the New York Times immigrants aren't stealing our jobs or are a huge problem.

( http://immigration.about.com/od/bordersportsandcustoms/i/Fence Issue.htm )

( https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/debunking-the-myth-of-the-job-stealing-immigrant.html?_r=0 )

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

The world is torn between two ideologies: Jihad and McWorld. McWorld, globalization, can be seen as the dominating perspective, and that is not a malevolent result. Globalization is inevitable and its consequences are economically beneficial; whereas isolationism, Jihad, is not. In this situation of building a wall on the Mexican boarder, the isolationists are acting on xenophobic motives; for the major reason some support the wall is because they believe that a majority of the immigrants are criminals. Their foundation is based on opinion rather than fact. Such a perspective is detrimental to both civil and economic systems in the US. It is detrimental to the civil system because it engenders prejudice in the public by using immigrants as a scapegoat for different issues, and it is detrimental to the economic system by forcing it remain isolated from opportunities of prosperity. Through globalization, the US's economy would be exposed to new and foreign markets diversifying and strengthening its assets. Building a boarder wall would publicly display the US's decision to isolate itself. Such a gesture would mar international relationships. Moreover, building a wall 1,900 miles long is a little expensive, about $25 billion, but President Trump administration has claimed that Mexico will pay for it by taxing Mexican imports. While this may sound like a good idea at first, It is really ploy to hide the fact that no one but the US will pay for the wall. Taxing Mexican imports only increases the prices of the products, so really the buyers, us Americans, will be paying for the wall. Really it would be easier and faster if every single person, from infants to senior citizens, in the United States donate about $80 to the Trump administration to satisfy one persons unrealistic, radical, xenophobic emotions.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

I would rather my money go towards education, helping veterans, and helping our homeless, over some wall that will be difficult to maintain. I don't even mind the tax but that money could be better spent providing assistance and benefits to those that need it.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Trump's border wall plan has many holes in it. It would be terrible diplomacy. The building of a border wall would put a strain on the relationship between the U.S. and Mexico, one of our closest trading partners - not to mention the rest of the world. And it would be a waste of money. Experts estimate that Donald Trump’s wall would cost at least $25 billion. That’s enough to build 1,500 new elementary schools, or send more than 300,000 veterans to college, or install enough renewable energy to power more than 5 million homes. In other words, we could help a lot of hardworking American families with all of the money Trump would spend on his wall. It’s completely unnecessary for securing our borders. We spend roughly $7 billion per year to place thousands of border patrol agents in the field and inspectors at our ports. We have vehicles, aircrafts, watercrafts, camera towers, and even aerial drones.

Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Building a wall at the border would not benefit the United States. Doing this would divide both nations and could potentially cause Mexico to raise their tariffs on U.S. imports. Building the wall would also be very expensive, costing between $15-20 billion. The United States cannot afford to build this wall. Trump tells us that Mexico will pay for the wall while Mexico's president claims that they will not pay for any of it. Citizens taxes will probably end up paying for the wall which is pointless when the money could go to many other things.

Supporting Evidence: Source: (immigration.procon.org)
Side: I am against wall and tax
1 point

Building a wall is a complete waste of time AND WASTE OF MONEY. If there is a 20% tax on Mexican goods then that means WE Americans are paying for the wall. We would be paying for something that won't even work! Many don't seem to remember that there already is a wall, and it is appearntly ineffective. How will rebuilding a wall solve any problems? An immigrant will do what ever it takes to cross the border, and a simple wall is not going to stop them. There are better ways to reduce illegal immigration (mentioned at https://www.quora.com/Why-is-building-a-wall-between-the-US-and-Mexico-like-Trump-proposes-a-bad-idea-Ignoring-ethics-would-such-a-wall-reduce-illegal-border-crossings) ) All building another wall does is create tension between American and Mexico. Mexico is the United States' neighbor, we rely on them and they rely on us. They are our third largest trading partner. It is better for USA and Mexico to work together to ensure Mexico is trying their hardest to prevent the passing of illegal immigrants as well. Overall, this will will not accomplish much.

Side: I am against wall and tax
0 points

For anyone who didn't know, we already have a wall. And it isn't working. A slightly larger wall would make little to no change. People who really want to come here would still find a way to do so.

Trump is imposing this idea of a wall on Mexico, who wants nothing to do with it, and is telling Americans they won't have to worry about paying for it. "Mexico will pay for it." Yet Mexican president Enrique Pena Nieto insisted they will NOT. News flash; there will be a 20% tax on Mexican IMPORTS, which means Americans are paying for it. Even with the tax, however, it would take years to make enough money to pay for the wall. The whole situation makes no sense and is fairly slight of hand on Trump's part.

Another factor to consider: not all illegal immigrants are criminals. In fact, only 2% of illegal immigrants have criminal records. It's wrong to assume all of them are rapists, gang members, and drug dealers. Using common sense, we can infer that those aren't normally the type of people seeking to escape where they are and begin a new life, anyway. Even if you take the side that immigrants are all "trash" and "useless," I hope you'd believe that they are smart enough to know that the United States is not a place where they could excel in these criminal ways of life. Most people are attempting to seek opportunities and start a new life; one free of the violence and danger present in their own towns and homes. And most of the time, they'll do anything to blend in with everyone else. If they commit the smallest crime, they risk being sent home, and they know that.

Problems do not only arise with the idea and effects of a wall, but also with the fact that it will be difficult and expensive to create. The border between the United States and Mexico is roughly 3,100 km (1,900 miles) and runs along diverse and rugged terrain, with the Rio Grande close by. This wall would not only be illogical to build but unrealistic. Not to mention expensive: Trump said he is great at building walls and that he can "build them very inexpensively." If you consider $25 billion inexpensive, then you got it. Trump claims it would cost between $10 and $12 billion, but looking at the facts, there's just no way.

Other issues that arise are that of the environment and geological aspects. Ever year, many species of animals and birds migrate between the north and south of the American continent. They cross the border in order to mate with animals from their species that are genetically different from them, an essential part of keeping these species alive. With this wall impeding their natural path, many species would become endangered or even extinct.

But even if you don't care about the fragile ecosystem of the Rio Grande, or about the wildlife that live throughout the American Continent, maybe an issue involving humans will resonate with you. Much of the land along the border is PRIVATE land, and I'm not sure how Trump would plan on taking this land from the citizens that have lived there longer than he's thought about being president, or maybe even longer than he's been alive.

There's no real, strong evidence in favor of the wall, and it's an all around illogical and vacuous idea.

Supporting Evidence: Problems With the Wall (www.bbc.com)
Side: I am against wall and tax
SirDrPrf(2) Disputed
1 point

We have a fence, not a wall, and it doesn't span the whole border. If you want evidence that walls and fences do work when constructed with integrity and along the majority of the length of a border then look no further than Israel and Hungary.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax
2 points

I agree with SirDrPrf. The "fence" that we have currently only stops about 40-50% of the immigrants coming into the country. While this might seem like a high number, there are still tons of immigrants that make it over, about half a million each year (check link.) However, I believe the wall in Israel did not really serve its true purpose. The wall has proved to be a wonder, but was eventually labeled as illegal by the International Court of Justice, so I do not believe it was the best example to use.

Side: I am for the wall and MX tax