CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
And you have no evidence I am "Nom", you obnoxious, unintelligent hypocrite.
We don't know if the Universe is finite or infinite
Yes we do. You're just an idiot. How can the universe be expanding if it is infinite you silly nugget? The NASA WMAP mission mapped out the background cosmic radiation pattern for the entire universe, moron.
God, you annoy me. You're so stupid and yet simultaneously so arrogant.
Calling all god believers. Where did god come from? Like y’all out here criticizing a simple theory while you can’t explain where god came from yourself.
He didn't come from. He invented coming from anywhere. All things exist in abstract form and nothing does not exist. There is no was or will be to God. There just is.
Everything exists in one single collective consciousness, & God is just the highest conceivable & powerful being within that consciousness.
The Big Bang was when all the matter in the universe had collapsed to a singularity, a single point that presumably extended the laws of physics past the point of containment allowing for a relatively quick expansion, but this expansion and the resulting congealing of the gaseous expanse, created the expanse we call space, and the materiel in it we call stars and planets.
But I thought there was nothing before the Big Bang... So where did all the matter come from? Or was it there, but space didn't exist? I'm just asking.
But I thought there was nothing before the Big Bang
No, there was stuff before the Big Bang. Both the show and the theorized creation of the universe.
Or was it there, but space didn't exist?
I can ask the same of God. I haven't read the Bible or the Torah or the Quran, so I'm clueless, but didn't God make everything? If so, how did God come to be? Was he born through the infinite birth canals of nothingness?
Let's take this into consideration. God is a magical being; is eternal, and immortal. He is also all knowing, and can tell the future. He is outside of time, space, and matter. He doesn't need those things to exist. In the Bible, it says that God is the beginning and the end(I'm not sure what the end is). God was never made, and has always existed. Even though I believe that it is true, I can't imagine how that would be. But the way he made everything, was by speaking everything into existence. There's also a reason why it says that the word has power, in the Bible.
So a few questions about the Big Bang.
1. If there was stuff before the Big Bang, what kind of stuff was it?
2. What made the stuff that made the Big Bang?
3. What made all that stuff collide in the first place, and why did it make an explosion?
4. How was the Big Bang able to make such complex life out just matter, and other random elements?
5. Did they have some sort of necessary components to create life? If so, what were they?
6. How do you know there were things before the Big Bang?
God is a magical being; is eternal, and immortal. He is also all knowing, and can tell the future. He is outside of time, space, and matter. He doesn't need those things to exist.
You know what else used to be called magic? Science.
If there was stuff before the Big Bang, what kind of stuff was it?
Matter. Just simple, good old matter. Dust, particles, etc.
What made the stuff that made the Big Bang?
Who knows? That's what makes science awesome to me. Even if we don't know something right now, we'll be able to know eventually thanks to the logical advancement and evolution of humans.
What made all that stuff collide in the first place, and why did it make an explosion?
I honestly couldn't tell you. Like you, I believe the Big Bang happened but I don't know how. Secondly, couldn't I ask you why God made everything? He seemed to be fine floating around in nothingness.
How was the Big Bang able to make such complex life out just matter, and other random elements?
Let's get this straight: the Big Bang is not a person. The Big Bang was an event that occurred 3.7 billion years ago. As to your question, the first microorganism eventually became a mammal, which eventually became a monkey, which eventually became a human. Also, if the Big Bang hadn't happened, religion wouldn't have been a thing since people wouldn't have been a thing.
Did they have some sort of necessary components to create life? If so, what were they?
Like I said, evolution. To me, evolution is indispensable to the Big Bang theory.
How do you know there were things before the Big Bang?
Because if there weren't things before the Big Bang, then nothing would've been able to happen.
Because you were asked a direct question and you gave a direct answer. By claiming that your direct answer "was not your point" all you are really illustrating is that you can't (i.e. don't want to) follow a conversation properly.
1. I can see where you're coming from. Because of science, we've been able to accomplish major feats, and advance our civilization. I am Christian, but I really like science. I just referred God to as a supernatural being, if that makes sense. Things like the plagues of Egypt, creating life out of literally nothing, raising the dead, etc. Of course with science, we can fly, and that would seem magical, but we can't fly unless we have something like a plane, helicopter, or any other mode of transportation. Something supernatural would be if I was able to just suddenly fly out of nowhere, without any support.
2. Well, space and time can exist without matter, but matter cant exist without time and space (I actually looked this up if you're wondering). So if there's nothing; no time or space, then how can matter exist? I'm pretty sure Einstein said that matter can't exist without time and space.
3. Also, matter can be created, so if matter can't exist without time and space, then it should've been created. So, what created matter?
4. So if you don't know why everything collided, and why it made an explosion to cause the Big Bang, then how can you know that everything collided to make the explosion in the first place? So if it did collide and made an explosion, what were in those things that made an explosion? Was there a chemical reaction or just some explosion cause by collision?
5. Well, if evolution did happen, there would have been some form of life created by the Big Bang. What I wanted to know was WHAT made life, such as what MADE the first microorganism. So if that microorganism became a mammal, what things made it turn into a mammal? And how was DNA created?
6. I wouldn't say evolution really exists, because I believe in God, but I do agree on adaptation and natural selection. We see it in birds, cats, dogs, and almost every kind of living organism on this planet.
7. I do get that apes are similar to humans, but I don't think that we evolved from a common ancestor. I don't see how one species could suddenly turn into a whole new species.
8. So in evolution, everything had a common ancestor, which would be a microorganism of some kind. How were we able to branch out, and eventually become the smartest species?
9. Last thing. God created us because he loved us, because we are part of his eternal plan. We weren't made because he was lonely, or because he needed us, or because of his ego. He was perfectly fine without us. And he wasn't alone, he had his son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Well, space and time can exist without matter, but matter cant exist without time and space (I actually looked this up if you're wondering). So if there's nothing; no time or space, then how can matter exist? I'm pretty sure Einstein said that matter can't exist without time and space.
But if matter can't exist outside of space and time then how can God exist? If you intend to tell me that God is made out of something other than matter, then the exact same argument can be applied to the singularity.
You are entitled to your beliefs, but trust me, you are not going to win a battle of logic here.
Matter is matter, God isn't matter. He's a GOD, if you're willing to understand. He's the one that made everything, so it wouldn't make sense if he couldn't exist because of something else.
By logic do you mean your scientific beliefs? Because to me this is logic, and the Big Bang and evolution don't seem compatible to me.
Space, time, matter, gods, everything is man-made technically. They're just things. I think there were things before humans, before animals, and before matter. As to what was in the things that made the explosion, I phrased myself incorrectly. I didn't mean explosion, as that isn't exactly the theory. The actual theory states that the universe expanded, which was caused by complexity.
Claims 5 - 9
Well, the Big Bang didn't necessarily create any form of life. What made life was essentially just matter, since it basically makes everything. As for what things made it turn into a mammal, first there was water so no mammals. Then, there was some land, and things that couldn't go on land eventually got killed off by natural selection. So what made mammals turn into mammals? Evolution. How was DNA created? That's a mystery. And for the monkeys turning into humans thing, we didn't just immediately turn into humans from monkeys. It was a long line of succession and evolution across thousands of years. How were we able to brand out? Evolution. We learned to survive and adapt, and those who didn't are now severely decomposed.
So you say that matter is man made. Then how did matter exist before the Big Bang? I'm not sure if I understood that differently or something...
As for time, the measurement and the names for them are man made. If time suddenly stopped, then everything else would stop. You might think time is jut a construct, but to me it exists.
So how exactly did the universe expand? Did space have a center starting point?
How was everything able to combine in order to form the universe and it's galaxies?
Can you try to give an explanation of how matter can create life?
How was water on earth created? If there was water first, then there would be things like fish, that live in water, amd nothing related to mammals. So then how did land appear? So when it did, why were the things that couldn't go on land killed off by natural selection? If they were water dwelling creatures, they wouldn't need to go on land. How did natural selection do that?
Do scientists say we evolved from apes because we look similar to them? How do you know that it took thousands of years to evolve?
And for the branching off thing, saying evolution is kind of a vague answer, you should go more into depth in that. Also for that, how and why were we able to become the smartest? Because if other species were able to survive and adapt, shouldn't they have the same intelligence as us?
I meant that in the way that it's technically man-made because it didn't name itself.
As for time, the measurement and the names for them are man made. If time suddenly stopped, then everything else would stop. You might think time is jut a construct, but to me it exists.
Well, time is a construct, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Did space have a center starting point?
Yes.
How was everything able to combine in order to form the universe and its galaxies?
The basic explanation is this: entropy is winding the universe down, complexity is creating stuff in the universe like stars.
Can you try to give an explanation of how matter can create life?
Well, for one, matter doesn't create life. Sex makes life, to be fair. But as for how life came to be, that goes to abiogenesis. It's too complex to explain correctly, but I encourage you to research it.
How was water on earth created?
We actually don't know right now how water came to be.
How did natural selection do that?
I phrased myself wrong. No, water dwelling creatures weren't killed off. That's why we have fish.
How do you know that it took thousands of years to evolve?
Because humans weren't just created, like religion says. Also, scientists don't say we evolved from monkeys just because we look like them, they say we evolved from monkeys because there's scientific evidence of it happening.
you should go more into depth in that
There's not much else to say. Evolution caused us to become the most intelligent species. Think of it this way: if it gets cold, animals have fur. Eventually, humans didn't have fur, they just had head hair. What did they do? They made clothes. And also, no, other species shouldn't have the same intelligence as us because they didn't need to create much in order to survive.
But I thought there was nothing before the Big Bang... So where did all the matter come from?
As I understand it the big bang may have been caused by a quantum singularity. Where, if anywhere, this proposed singularity came from, or whether it was always there, nobody knows.
Regards your second question, remember that energy and matter are two forms of the same thing, and the big bang itself, if it indeed happened, would have required an unfathomable amount of energy.
As I understand it the big bang may have been caused by a quantum singularity. Where, if anywhere, this proposed singularity came from, or whether it was always there, nobody knows
Voodoo singularity can happen. But do not name it god. Don't do that. Only Quantum head theories can happen.
The big bang is a theory that's been arrived at by looking at data. It's not some person with a fetish for explosions trying to supplant god. Using math and looking at CMBR, the fact that all observed galaxies are red shifted and by considering the trajectories of other galaxies, you can surmise that they all originated from a single point, that a ridiculous amount of energy was released, and that it happened nearly 14 billion years ago.
A good explanation that fits this information is that something akin to an explosion happened 14 billion years ago. Big bang. That's it. It's not a belief, it's a theory which has yet to be disproven, but can and likely will be disproven at any time. Atheists typically believe in this explanation over those involving a supreme creator, since such explanations inevitably rely on circular reasoning with a prerequisite belief
What if it is the nature of light waves to elongate over distance? The light from galaxies would appear red shifted and the light from further galaxies would appear more red shifted, making it seem as though the cosmos is expanding at an accelerating rate. This could also provide an alternative explanation for the pioneer anomaly of the voyager space probes, which appear to accelerate as they move away.
Different ways to interpret the data? Sure, why not.
But then wouldn't we see all light as slightly red shifted, proportional to the distance it travelled? Even on our scale of size, such an effect would be detectable right? Detecting light from sources far away would have longer wavelengths than those from closer sources. This doesn't happen. I imagine that something like this would be particularly apparent to the extreme when a light based experiment was used to detect gravitational waves on a ridiculously small scale.
To interpret it that way it would have to be something unique to the space between the galaxies, or maybe the matter the light is reflecting/coming from in those galaxies.
Calling all atheists: How can explosions lead to a universe of infinite complexity?
If you are referring to the Big Bang (as I think you are)--then, it was by no means an 'explosion' in any typical sense of the word (or at all, really)
If you are referring to the Big Bang (as I think you are)--then, it was by no means an 'explosion' in any typical sense of the word (or at all, really)
I agree, it was actually more of a resonant emanation of the word of God. Word is a metaphor for "vibration" in the Torah, this is what creates the waves and particle oscillations.
