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Can Biblical Theism and Evolution Co-Exist?
Can they Co-Exist? Please Justify your reasoning and this is mainly a question for Christians so please no Atheistic Trolls please as I would like these people to focus on the topic directly.
If you want to pull out examples. I am not answering a link.
Its 1 thing to say something and back it with a link.
As far as the Bible well it's the truest text ever written.
If you have eyes to see it, and a heart to understand it. It has no contradictions, and the depth of it! It's the path of great wisdom. With oracles spoken with a few simple texts.
I read it, and it's fluid. Literally like Water flowing with the widest thoughts, the only way I can explain it is like my mind is viewing a bigger screen than can fit in my thoughts! It's like the bigger screen fits a small length of Heaven.
Jesus said come to the Living Water. And is actually like Warer when Jesus is stirring it in front of you. I've experienced that in that book as an open door to peer into Eternity. Oh my God such depth!
You are saddlly mistaken about the Bible and about God!
After Judas saw Jesus' condemned, meaning Judas actually watched or was waiting the results of the trial, Judas then threw the money back and hung himself.
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matthew 27:1-10
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Matthew 27:1-10 NAS
1 Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
2 and they bound Him, and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor.
3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!"
5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
6 The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood." 7 And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers.
8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel; 10 AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER'S FIELD, AS THE LORD DIRECTED
I tend to agree that it can. From my limited understanding, we are thought to be created in God's image. Who is to say that we haven't evolved from the original design? Maybe God's image was a lesser form or what we consider to be a lesser form but is actually quite powerful? We know evolution exists, despite the common question "if man evolved from apes how come there are still apes", to which I point out this article: http://evolutionfaq.com/faq/if-man-evolved-ape-then-why-are-there-still-apes
I mean, we all have the same basic biochemical and genetic make-up, so instead of having limited thinking of our bodies being as God created them (as they are now), we could be thinking a little smaller like something with the genetic code. Certainly this is a wild thought but it's interesting none the less.
No, we have entered depravity. This is actually the time when God will speak loudly to and also through His people. And will reveal Himself clearer. I actually think God is waking up His people and plunging to final Harvest
So you have it actually backwards. Your painting God in your own image. He made us in His image. Some questions
What would it be like if God didn't really exist?
What if there was no Maximality, no Maximum Greatness, no Maximum Potential, and no Maximum Excellence to give form to abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence?
Who then created abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence?
What are the biological elements found in petri dish of nature are considered the building blocks of abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence that we see various degrees?
If we are absent of a Creator, then what elements, cells, organisms or particles, and compounds were initially deposited into the earth at the beginning of our world's conception to form the building blocks for abstract qualities? Or of conscience judgement? Or of superior intelligence?
Im personally an atheist, but I used to be a christian and believe in evolution. You just have to believe that Genesis is a metaphor. So yes, they can.
They have already co-existed for as long as the theory of evolution has existed. Furthermore, the only conflict is with those who take the Bible literally as word for word fact from the mouth of God. Christians who believe the Bible is inspired by instead of written word for word by God don't have a conflict. It's possible that a God who could make everything could have also created the process we observe and describe as evolution. And if that's the case then the fools who deny it would actually be denying the work of God himself.
Folks, it's folly to observe fossils and civilization remains that predate the Bible for centuries and then to deny such things ever existed because the stories from bronze age civilization have different event claims or time scale assertions.
The Bible is actually complete understanding of science.
If we are absent of a Creator, then what elements, cells, organisms or particles, and compounds were initially deposited into the earth at the beginning of our world's conception to form the building blocks for abstract qualities? Or of conscience judgement? Or of superior intelligence?
If there are specific cells or elements are used as building blocks which later evolved to human abstract qualities, conscience judgement, or superior intelligence then wouldn't it be a reasonable scientific expectation as well as a logical conclusion that these same building blocks should also easily be seen throughout all living mammals, and also naturally present within our complex natural environment? Or at the very least a diverse samplings with a similar evolutionary outcome from using those same building blocks with a relevant degrees of differences from man down to the lowest form of mammal?
The projected evolutionary outcome given that all mammals evolved within the same environment, within the same conditions, with access to the same building blocks found in nature, and over the same amount of time, making evolution's projected outcome relevant in every degree of difference between all mammals.
Even natural elimination, natural thriving, and natural adaptations every mammal still should follow a course of adaptations that are in every way relevant in every degree of difference between all progressing mammals.
By all reasonable scientific thought either one of these two things should have occurred, but didn't occurr in evolution and adaptation.
Either making the degree of differences relevant by either
1 - reducing humanity to the relevant degree of differences in abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence found in comparison to other mammals or
2 - by raising some or even many other mammals by the relevant degree of differences in abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence to produce an evolutionary relevance expected in natural corse without an Intelligent Creator, showing a scientific probable expectation with no extreme degrees of differences with relevance between the highest functioning mammal to the lowest functioning mammal in abstract qualities, conscience judgement, or superior intelligence, right?
Bible is actually complete understanding of science.
False. The Bible contains 0 understanding of science. Biblical nut jobs use an understanding of science to pretend the Bible says something that it doesn't say.
Isaiah new the world was round. And also new about space
21 Do you not know? Have you not heard?
Has it not been declared to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
And Eternity is Light and God is Light does that sound possibly scientific? What man had to catch up in year 2000,God's prophets already knew!
Would Omnipotence and Omnipresent Be Faster than Light ?
Time Travel ? God everywhere at once, is that the power of Light?
So Prophets of God used terms we know today to be an element of time, and even with potential to be in every time at once traveling back in time and forward in time.
Isnt it odd they didn't choose other tangible terms.
Jesus said I saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightening.
The Father Son Holy Spirit
One God, 3 persons could be moving through time from past present and future.
Jesus said No one knows the day or the hour except the Father in Heaven. Is it because of Light travel.
I think we don't know what we don't know, but if your closed you'll never know!
Here are some more scriptures stating earth is round
Job 26 - sounds like a circle to me!
7 "He stretches out the north over empty space And hangs the earth on nothing. 8 "He wraps up the waters in His clouds, And the cloud does not burst under them. 9 "He obscures the face of the full moon And spreads His cloud over it. 10 "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
Another about the earth is round
Proverbs 8
12 "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion. 13 "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. 14 "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine. 15 "By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. 16 "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly. 17 "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me. 18 "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness. 19 "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver. 20 "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, 21 To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. 22 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23 "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. 24 "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. 25 "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; 26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. 27 "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28 When He made firm the skies above , When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; *30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, 31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
He sits on top of the CIRCLE of the earth, LOOKING DOWN at men looking like grasshoppers is
An idiot saying
A circle is standing hung in the sky,
And God is sitting on top looking down at a flat plain
Then where are the grasshoppers???
Also they never flew. Yet they had the forethought to think if God is looking from that hight, we look like grasshoppers???
Hmm, yeah you may want to rethink your position on that..
They may not have had Hebrew equivalents for scientific words but they are obvious!
If you think about details of appearances of Heavenly beings in the Bible, even Satan falling from Heaven, they always appear in a beam of light!
You can be an idiot if you want to, but defending wrong is not a strong position, ESPECIALLY against God!
The scriptures used the best word available, and they had different words for the same word to give the clarity in the best terms available
The the word for light used here is this verse is this use
"to shine or make manifest, especially by rays."
So John in this verse chose to use rays over another word describing light used in glow or illuminate. So Jesus is saying I Am rays or beams of light and the
John 8:12
Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light (shine or make manifest, especially by rays) the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays) of life."
Eternal life, God Father Son Holy Spirit Heavenly Bodies Angels Even Omnipotence and Omniscience, even the seeing and understanding. Even Satan's fall from Heaven are described as movements and living in the speed of light!
Abiding in Him as He in the Father and us in Him, walk as "children of the Light"
God knowing all things, the Father showing the Son all things all knowing, all prophesies, even Enoch walked with God, and God beamed Him up.... Are scientific terms unknown till modern times...yet the prophets understood every word.
God's light reaches through the entire space of time, beginning end future. Why would they choose light as the term to describe Eternity, and an Eternal God??
Because it would be dumb, and we know God is not dumb, it would be dumb to give a prophet words that didn't speak clearly in every age and time!
So the most basic word of that day, was used so they also could understand, as we understand.
Even the words we use today are quite inadequate.
So when God interacts with man, He is not trying to make His word difficult for us to understand.
Its actually very plain, and very legible, it's our hearts that cause us to understand or not understand. Not God making it too complicated for the times our minds happen to be in.
Now if He did that, then He would be unreasonable and cruel.
But He is God, and He spoke what He wanted to speak
in every time He chose to speak. It actually doesn't matter what you would have done or me. He is stationary unchangeable, we are decission makers and He gives what we need to make decissions, and our hearts will actually gravitate to whatever our hearts love.
So if our hearts do not love truth well we will choose to deny truth and push truth away. If our hearts love truth, at the right time, some need time for watering and softening. But in the time our hearts are ready, our hearts will hear His call.
God did exactly the perfect thing when writing His word.
He made it as simple as a child could understand.
Jesus said, you must be like a child. So its simple.
So them why would God make it so only an educated advanced scientist could know and commune with God???
And as deep as a great mind could understand.
But it still comes down to childlike faith
But here this may help your smart mind. God says in Daniel that knowledge will unfold from a sealed book through the ages till the end! So He is opening up wider to show us.
Daniel: 12
2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. 3 "Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4 "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase." 5 Then I, Daniel, looked and behold, two others were standing, one on this bank of the river and the other on that bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?" 7 I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed. 8 As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" 9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. 10 "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
I understand your point the old if God is so powerful could He create a rock He can't pick up?
It's a ridiculous argument that's meant to create an impossible situation.
Its defective, the only thing it proves is that you want to create a conflict bigger than God. And its simply not possible. And its not logical. Why would He want to?
Lucifer challenged God, God simply let him fall from Heaven.
So he could have made angels without the ability to have pride, and He could have man choose Him.
So the rock He can't move then is free will.
Couldn't God make free will, then make man to choose correctly?
Well then He can't do everything.
Sure He could have, but that's not free will.
So God could have made man with free will, and never gave the wrong choice as an option. But He has a Kingdom filled with children of light and that is His end purpose and it is a purposed end result, and everything is put in motion to accomplish His purpose.
But challenges like these are not His ways. And again He is God, He doesn't follow your ways. He is unchangeable. And its final!
So the question is you heart going to respond someday, and will you be there in that Eternal Day of Light?
Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice. So if you ever hear it, and respond, we'll then you will be His sheep.
But most people won't. The road to life isn't popular, it wasn't in any age.
Even religious people can hear "I never knew you"
But light will shine in the darkness, and children of light will be drawn like a mouth to a flame, while the cockroaches scatter when the light comes on.
I understand your point the old if God is so powerful could He create a rock He can't pick up?
It's a ridiculous argument that's meant to create an impossible situation.
No, that's not my point, as that argument is logically flawed. Lay off the straw men.
Its defective, the only thing it proves is that you want to create a conflict bigger than God. And its simply not possible. And its not logical. Why would He want to?
Which is why that wasn't the point I made, at all.
Lucifer challenged God, God simply let him fall from Heaven.
So he could have made angels without the ability to have pride, and He could have man choose Him.
So the rock He can't move then is free will.
Not at all. God knows the choices every will make before they made them, and made them just so. In that sense, free will is essentially an illusion.
Couldn't God make free will, then make man to choose correctly?
Well then He can't do everything.
Sure He could have, but that's not free will.
The free will already doesn't exist, regardless of whether or not he made us choose correctly.
So God could have made man with free will, and never gave the wrong choice as an option. But He has a Kingdom filled with children of light and that is His end purpose and it is a purposed end result, and everything is put in motion to accomplish His purpose.
And that purpose is to send the overwhelming majority of his creations to be tortured for eternity? That's fucked.
But challenges like these are not His ways. And again He is God, He doesn't follow your ways. He is unchangeable. And its final!
According to Christianity, no human knows god's ways, which brings into question where you are getting this from.
So the question is you heart going to respond someday, and will you be there in that Eternal Day of Light?
Here's the problem: Even if the Christian god did exist, I would have no desire to worship him, as he is the most evil figure ever devised (again, with the Christian mythos).
Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice. So if you ever hear it, and respond, we'll then you will be His sheep.
But most people won't. The road to life isn't popular, it wasn't in any age.
Even religious people can hear "I never knew you"
But light will shine in the darkness, and children of light will be drawn like a mouth to a flame, while the cockroaches scatter when the light comes on.
What astounds me is how you can legitimately think most people will be tortured for eternity, and find that god to be just, merciful, or deserving of worship.
It's nothing short of evil incarnate, and altogether far too human to actually exist.
Correct God knows every choice before made. But we don't.
And God knowing our choice doesn't change our choices.
God is Pure Light. He is Light that can be in all times and everywhere.
So He does know who are His. But we don't.
And even if He knows it still will complete.
God is going to finish even if He know everything about tomorrow.
Saying free will is an illusion on the basis of foreknowledge is ridiculous.
You understand time travel, what happens if you alter choices or control choices in time travel? God doesn't alter the choices you make even if it's known in the future. And, we are not discussing whether you pick an apple or strawberries. We are talking choices of conscience.
So if you traveled to year 2025 and you kept every time rule, and you saw that you had a lovely 5 year old daughter and a happy home, would all the choices made to get there be an illussion, just because you knew ahead, and you ended up with exactly what you saw in your time travel.
Is your happy home less happy because it was preknown?
Even more importantly, if you often traveled after that and saw some of your daughters biggest events, and returned to live life in a normal way, would your daughters choices be an illussion?
Now you could argue you may alter her choices by pushing her toward the choices you already know. But we can't really script everyone. Any meddling by you could make a mess of the time line.
But God doesn't need to make a script, and He can't muck up the time line. Because He is the time line! Everything that occurs on the time line occurs in Him, in every time. God governs the time line, and time governs our time.
But back to you. Say you were like God. And you were in both times, today and future. And you knew everything that everyone would do. And you just how it would work out. And you just enjoyed your daughter as she made her choices. Would her choices be illussion to her or you?
God reaches in to fulfill prophesy. And you can tell its risky business to orchestrate it all and it was work that He did. And for God's children, because he brings the elect to the edge. Jesus says those days have to be cut short for the elects sake.
It is not an illussion and not futility
Matthew 24:15-28 NAS
Perilous Times
15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand ), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are
nursing babies in those days! 20 "But pray that your flight will not
be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 "Unless those days had been
cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. *
I'm done with this conversation. You completely ignored what I said, created a straw man out of fictional concepts of "time travel rules" predicated upon one of several different theories of the nature of time, and tried to create an entire argument out of that that addressed none of my points.
This is what I am talking about when I say you don't participate in debates.
I understand your point the old if God is so powerful could He create a rock He can't pick up?
It's a ridiculous argument that's meant to create an impossible situation.
Its defective, the only thing it proves is that you want to create a conflict bigger than God. And its simply not possible. And its not logical. Why would He want to?
Lucifer challenged God, God simply let him fall from Heaven. God didn't need to discuss Lucifer's challenge. He is God, Lucifer is not, and that's final.
So he could have made angels without the ability to have pride, and He could have man choose Him.
So the rock He can't move then is free will.
Couldn't God make free will, then make man to choose correctly?
Well then He can't do everything.
Sure He could have, but that's not free will.
So God could have made man with free will, and never gave the wrong choice as an option. But He has a Kingdom filled with children of light and that is His end purpose and it is a purposed end result, and everything is put in motion to accomplish His purpose.
But challenges like these are not His ways. And again He is God, He doesn't follow your ways. He is unchangeable. And its final!
So the question is you heart going to respond someday, and will you be there in that Eternal Day of Light?
Jesus said, My sheep hear My voice. So if you ever hear it, and respond, well then you will be His sheep.
But most people won't. The road to life isn't popular, it wasn't in any age.
Even religious people can hear "I never knew you"
But light will shine in the darkness, and children of light will be drawn like a moth to a flame, while the cockroaches scatter when the light comes on.
You are dumber than snake mittens aren't you. We see grasshoppers as the size of grasshoppers because we are bigger than they are. Imagining God is bigger than us doesn't have anything to do with flying.
It not an argument. You can either believe it or not.
God does not change, and He does not adjust!
He loves you, but your choices are your own. Free will.
Again John 8 truth is not a debate. But its something you are welcome to debate. But all your debates do not change or alter truth.
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.
You have free will to choose to ask God for truth, but if you love lies, you can't see or hear truth.
God doesn't throw pearls before swine. If you are His, you will hear and see. Because the god of this world is or is not your father.
God doesn't change. Truth doesn't change.
If you want God, you have to go in that direction, and He will run to you. Like in the story of the prodigal son. And if you decide I want truth even if it goes against everything I think, He will show you.
But if you want to fight God why would He give you jewels that you don't understand or want to understand?
Darkness doesn't stay dark in the light!
If you want darkness, then light isn't there by your choice.
John 3:
11 "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.
12 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear * that his deeds will be exposed.
21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
Alright, I'm done. What you are engaging in isn't a debate, or even a legitimate two-way conversation. You are preaching, arrogantly no less, and that's it. And I really don't have the patience for another arrogant internet preacher.
Your correct it wasn't a two way conversation I answered your argument with something that is set in stone, unmovable, unchangeable, and solid. Its called truth.
And how I know it's truth is by 1 word.
1 word that Jesus says defines what child we are.
If you love God and If you love your neighbor as yourself.
And all I hear from your argument and CARTMAN'S is no love for your neighbors.
Even if you think you have a right reason to take your stand. Its small, it's hate, it's not honoring others and not honoring God.
It defines you and it defines your father, God or the god of this world.
And that's just is simply what Jesus said and its confirmed everywhere in His word.
Whether you believe the Bible or not is actually not even an issue here in this post. Because God wrote these on everyone's conscience.
And that conscience will condemn you, or will prove you to be a child of light.
And me, I'm just simply repeating what my Father said. Just as Jesus simply repeated what His Father said.
Those who are born of the Spirit are His.
If you are not, then ask God to show you.
If you are unwilling, then hopefully someday that will change for you!
Your correct it wasn't a two way conversation I answered your argument with something that is set in stone, unmovable, unchangeable, and solid. Its called truth.
And how I know it's truth is by 1 word. Love
1 word that Jesus says defines what child we are.
If you love God and If you love your neighbor as yourself.
And all I hear from your argument and CARTMAN'S is no love for your neighbors.
Even if you think you have a right reason to take your stand. Its small, it's hate, it's not honoring others and not honoring God.
It defines you and it defines your father, God or the god of this world.
And that's just is simply what Jesus said and its confirmed everywhere in His word.
Whether you believe the Bible or not is actually not even an issue here in this post. Because God wrote these on everyone's conscience.
And that conscience will condemn you, or will prove you to be a child of light.
And me, I'm just simply repeating what my Father said. Just as Jesus simply repeated what His Father said.
Those who are born of the Spirit are His.
If you are not, then ask God to show you.
If you are unwilling, then hopefully someday that will change for you!
Jesus experienced this in that conversation with religious officials.
They called Him arrogant. Because truth looks arrogant to lies, because lies adapt. Truth does not.
So to those who love truth they move to adapt to truth.
Whereas those who love lies, they resist truth and try to change truth
But its not possible to bend truth, or change truth.
Its stationary. It just is.
Lies dance and change and adapt and make people feel smart, while condescending truth. But its like a 5 year old insisting they will never sleep again. The 5 year old can dance, and delay, and fight sleep all they want... but truth be told even if they drop their head in spaghetti, they will eventually sleep!
The truth is that you are dumber than snake mittens, and it is lovely to see you prove it over and over again. I am very blessed, I am nowhere near as dumb as snake mittens.
5 And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
New Jerusalem is an Eternity with no end, and the light of the Sun is too small. God Himself is greater LIGHT than the Sun.
HE Himself is the light that lights eternity!
Now why would they say that? The Sun is perfectly adequate to light, in their primitive knowledge they may have prophetically understood light by experience, not by data!
I get this because I have experienced some of God's movement showing me things.
The only way I can describe it is 1, like Living Water coming out of my being, which is a term Jesus said... so sometimes I have 1 thing being shown and even if I hadn't read those scriptures in forever, they flow together in a moment like they are flowing at once with so much I can see it but I almost can't grab any of it, but even the water left as dampness on my hand is Living Water.
I can see how the Bible says Satan took Jesus up to tempt Him, before being crucified, and Satan in a moment showed Him all the kingdoms, Lucifer was an angel of light, He still can appear as an angel of light! I understand seeing content like that in "a moment"
I've experienced God show things in that way.
I briefly glimpse what and how God showed prophets.
When He spoke to them He showed them the future through the speed of light. They for the moment of prophesy were in that ray of light to that time of prophesy. They saw it sometimes cleared and sometimes their minds were hazy. Depending on God's time to reveal and what He was revealing at the moment. But these individuals saw past, to Genesis, to future in Revelations!
We were with Jesus from the beginning and He knows the children of light because He is light! And light doesn't limit Him at all because light has no time, nor time limitations!
We were with Him from the beginning because He is pure Light! And pure Light can be in the past present and future all at once.
And if you think of the Trinity. Let us make man in Our image.
All 3 were involved in creation!
All 3 can be in all 3 times periods all at once, there is no end to His light, "the darkness can't consume Him. We no that even a beam of light in dark matter is lost forever.
Well isn't Satan a beam of light lost forever?
I think these spiritual truths are truths to be known to children of light. The god of this world has blinded everyone else's eyes because even scientifically understanding light people are still consumed by darkness and can't see the Light, pure Light. God's Light. We see dimly but in a twinkling of an eye we see more.
What happens in a twinkling of an eye?? Think of a camera.
An advanced highest quality camera! We can make movies throw energy into high speed Internet, but we can only glimpse in the twinkling to capture a fractio of a fraction of a .... fractions x fractions.... a twinkling of the speed of Pure Light!
The words God gave and guided into the English translation of the Bible are perfect, pure, and there is no need to change them....the need is ours for God's Word to change us. You will have problems when you do not hold to one perfect translation from God into English.
The Bible indicates that the earth is round. One verse we can look at is Isaiah 40:22, where it mentions the “circle of the earth.” From space, the earth always appears as a circle since it is round. This matches perfectly with the Bible.
East, West, North, and South.......four corners. Have you ever looked at a compass? Do you know what a compass defines? Have you ever drawn with a compass? If you draw your compass across the four corners, East, North, South, and West, what shape does the compass show? Are you really as dense as you parade yourself to be? It's the circle of the Earth.
And that's not the only science mistake by a long long long-shot the Bible makes!!
It is chock full of backwards and idiotic beliefs at the time that show all too clearly the bible should Never ever ever ever be taken as anything remotely close to a science book.
Take a few minutes to read some of these laughable nuggets from the bible!
The Bible indicates that the earth is round. One verse we can look at is Isaiah 40:22, where it mentions the “circle of the earth.” From space, the earth always appears as a circle since it is round. This matches perfectly with the Bible.
From space, where God is, the Earth always looks like a circle....it turns, you can see it turning from space....from any angle, wherever you are, it looks like a circle. The only way this is possible is that the Earth be round. Figure it out, dunce.
If you look at a flat circle from the edge, it would appear to be a straight line. The Earth never appears to be a straight line. God being omnipresent, no matter which angle the Earth is viewed from it always looks round......because it is round, it always looks like a circle because it is round. The Bible always taught that the Earth is round, idiot's like you could not see it sometimes.
Liar. You are not sorry. God sees everything. You see in 3D. The Earth always is outlined by a circle because it is round. It can always be seen as a circle because it is not flat, it cannot be seen as a straight line like a flat disc.
Just admit it, Fartman, you are trying to misinterpret the Bible so you can agree with Flat Earthers because you think it's stupid. The Bible is clearly teaching the Earth is round though a dunce like you could easily be misled to believe it is teaching the earth is a flat disc.
I am not lying when I say I feel sorry for you believing in a God that isn't God.
Just admit that your God can't see in 3D. The Bible is clearly teaching that Good isn't able to see in 3D. Therefore, the God of the Bible isn't really God.
God is omnipresent. Wherever anything is, God is there, and He is there before anything was there. If you find that to be ambiguous, I think you need to get a dictionary and look up the definition of omnipresent. God is in space, space is everywhere anything is, God is there. Is that confusing for you?
The Earth always looks like a circle even thought it is always moving, and the only way it can look like a circle while always moving is because it is round.
If you think that is a logical fallacy, I think your logic machine is broken.
Hide yourself under your covers in your bed, God is there. Make your bed in Hell, God is there. Ascend into the heavens, God is there. God is in space, space is everywhere, even outside of the universe, in Hell, or under your bed covers. You are in space, the space you are in does not have as much air as the space in the room around you.
Do I have to talk like I"m talking to a three year old in order for you to understand simple logic?
The Bible never contradicts true science, and clearly taught many facts of nature which it took ignorant "scientists" thousands of years to figure out. The fact that the Bible is always in line with true science is one of the proofs of it being the word of God who created nature which can be scientifically observed and manipulated through applied science. .
No, it took biblical lunatics such as yourself to come up with ridiculous ways to interpret the words in the Bible to match what scientists have discovered over those thousand years. You guys made a mistake and forgot to include a major part of science and now you are too dumb to realize that you are only hurting the religion.
You might want to go back and re-read my last seven posts in this conversation, and maybe pour hot coffee over your head to wake yourself up before you start re-reading
Slappy, I've read all your stuff...I answered GoCart clearly and he knows it, you can go back and read my replies to him, I don't think I need to repeat them for you......The Bible teaches the Earth is round, it always has, and there have always been dunces who will try to say it teaches the earth is flat. I answered your flat earth points in my conversation with GoFart, you can read them and there is no need for me to go any further with it as it would be repetitive. The truth is a rested case. Like it or not.
..and I still don't recall your concession that your belief in "junk DNA" is archaic and similar to belief in flat earth in spite of the fact that I showed you the awesome team of scientists assembled regardless of their beliefs with most of them being evolutionary biologists like yourself who are learning the functions and necessity of what you called junk DNA because it was easier to say you had a proof of evolution that it was to say "this is something we do not understand and must study scientifically in depth". Well, thankfully, not all atheists and evolutionary biologists are that intellectually lazy and intellectually dishonest and they recognized that the stuff being called "junk" is stuff they do not understand because they had not studied it enough and they are doing the hard work of figuring it out and have found much if not most of the purpose and function of what lazy brained evolutionary biologists had written off as junk DNA declaring they found another trophy of proof of evolution in "junk DNA".
I used to think being honest would appeal to you since you seem to take such great umbrage when your personage is questioned. I gave up on that idea.
You need to change your references to show the real English Bible, the King James Bible and not be referencing fake modern versions which have changed a lot of key words, deleted a lot of key words and passages, and added a lot of key words.
Oh yeah, I was thinking about this list you presented. It's all answered in my six or so back and forths with GoFart on the subject. It is understandable how a person like you could believe the Bible teaches the Earth is flat, but if you will read my back and forth posts with Fartman, all of your insinuations of the Bible teaching the Earth is flat are easily answers.
Figures of speech are common even today, such as the sun rising and the sun setting, or trekking to the farthest corners of the world. Most of the verses you presented are poetic descriptions and none of them says the Earth is flat. Only people with low literary skills deduce the Earth is flat from things such as your list of verses....
And you present it to me like it's something new.......hahahah....I've read the Bible cover to cover many times, Slappy. How many times have you read the Bible cover to cover? I mean the real English Bible, not the fake versions which change so many words........I didn't bother to point out the changes and deletions of words in the list you presented, but I'm sure there are plenty of doctrinal changes away from the real Bible in the list you presented.
It would not, and does not make any scientific sense to consider an evolution of living creatures where there are exclusive qualities of conscience judgement and superior intelligence limited exclusively to humanity!
It's not a logical hypothesis to conclude that cells evolving chose to produce an order of natural selection, of only one mammal with abstract qualities, conscience judgement and superior intelligence?
I can see an evolution to an order of dominance, having a highest forms and a lowest form of mammals, like we do. That's a logical expectation, and should be expected if you are scientific proving evolution.
But the degree of difference to this proportion had to be accepted by a rational scientific group of millions of people regardless if it's as illogical as believing in unicorns! This theory of scientific outcome from evolution is far from any degree of logic!
Where is the closest abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence to humanity with a relevant degree of differences mammal to other mammals ?
No I'm claiming that if you are a child of God, He interacts with us. And its sweet. And enjoyable. As an outing would be with your dad.
So what I am saying is God will show you jewels and revelations, and sometimes He will show you the wonders in His word.
And their my jewels, and I felt the jewels could help others to also experience God showing them.
Is it prophetic, all things from God are prophetic. Because our natural mind is not privy to hear, only our spirits are.
So if you have a Bible look up "in our spirits He speaks mysteries"
It also says "test the spirits to see they are from God"
God will never contradict His word. That's 1 way to test, another way, is it a word founded in God's Love or is it founded in hate or even pride.
I am excited at what I saw, and its all foundation and can be confirmed through scriptures. And I don't fell proud I feel smaller and feel God is bigger. So that's in line.
And I think the content is rich, it's far beyond my thoughts and far beyond my education. And that makes it even more exciting.
But if you are not hearing God, He isn't talking to you.
But God is not far, He is near. And He wants to talk to us. You, me Cartman, and your heart has to want that. And He talks at His time. So if you sit down and say I'm going to hear God, we'll you may wait, for a year or 30 years or a day. But you just gotta be ready to hear.
So a prophet isn't a position it's simply having a relationship with God who interacts with His children and shows them things that are much bigger than ourselves. And that is just awesome.
The point is give me a progression that leads to your conclusion and I will serve if I can bring it to prove God again through breaking it down even further
You not believing or believing doesn't change God. It effects you.
Sometimes seeds grow later as they break through softened ground. Sometimes they never grow.
I don't think you should claim something, if it's not real.
God writes it on everyone's conscience, we either dull our consciences over time making them dark and hardened. Or we respond and let our thoughts be challenged and God does a work within us.
Pharoah had a hard heart, and God hardened even more.
He let Pharoah, who already demonstrated a hard heart, go further into hardness and darkness. Now you would think after some of those plagues, Pharoah would know there is a God and turn to God. But no signs or wonders can change a heart.
Think about the Pharisees, except a few of them, they also rejected Jesus even when He was healing people. Their hearts chose darkness, and no amount of signs changed that.
So I hope eventually God will soften you and show you.
But it won't be from signs, or the depths of intellectual proof in God, or the
fear of Hell.
It will be a call that says something that strikes you in the heart, and that is up to Him.
Jesus tells a story about a bigger who dies and is comfortable for the 1st time and a rich guy who ignored Him also died.
And the rich guy became the beggar, after a while the rich guy asked to go to warn his family so they can avoid that wretched place.
Luke 16:
Abraham says to it doesn't matter, even if someone warned them from the grave, if they reject the word, they still won't listen even if someone rose from the grave.
30 “‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’
31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
I am talking to you like people. I didn't try to scare you into God.
Or call you names. I am telling you what Is in God's word, and why I believe it.
And we are in a debate about God existing, so the content is appropriate.
No, a debate means each person actually considers and responds what the other says. You are essentially ignoring 99% of what I write, and preaching at me. That isn't a debate.
The Felidae family, I crudely will compare a sampling in the Felidae (cat) family, big and small. They are similar in every way, and exist in only slight degrees of each animals unique different qualities. But in every way lions, tigers, jaguars, leopards, pumas, cheetahs, bob cats, and house cats are similar not one Felidae has a unique design of abstract qualities and not one of the Felidae species has a unique degree of superiority of intellegence to any extreme degree of difference one to another.
The Canadae family, again there are similar progressive degrees but they are similar in every way, and exist in only slight degrees of differences. Each Canadae has unique different qualities, but are relative in every way. Comparing a random selection of Canadae species - dogs, wolves, foxes, coyotes, and jackals, like the Felidae not one Canadae species has a unique design of abstract qualities. And not one of the Canadae species has a unique degree of superiority of intellegence to any extreme degree of difference one to another.
There is only one classification of family in all of natural ordering and classifications that claim one species in the same family has unique qualities of an extreme degree of difference of one to MANY others in the same family!
So not only are the extreme difference marginalized through poor scientific classification, all others within the family classification minus the one and only one with an extreme degree of differences in BOTH the presence of abstract qualities AND incomparable degree of superiority in intelligence, the entire rest of the family follow the same degree of differences found in the other family examples I used, Felidae and Canidae.
If the degree in families are all relative except one, what does that logically assent between the comparisons?
If all animals evolved, each having a relatively equal degrees of differences in intellegence one to another, and all without abstract qualities shown exceeding their species and increasing over time within their species, or presenting any abnormalities showing any extremes in degrees of differences from one mammal to another mammal, or within a family classification between one species to another species then isn't it a simply fundamental logical conclusion that homo sapiens are completely unique to all other mammals including primates?
Many scientific theories elevate animal kingdom to human intelligence and even give abstract qualities. But ridiculous comparisons aren't proving anything by science, they are masking science with ridiculous comparisons!
Let's all act like the intellegent people we seem to be, and let science be logical, even if it tell us something we'd rather not know!
We should be able to follow a logical process of elimination after comparing every mammal one to another. All mammals show a reasonable and a rational degree of differences relative to all mammals in general.
Even the dolphin, and man's most intelligent top dog best friend are both relative to all other mammals and with natural abilities and intelligence within the same relative degree of difference between all the other mammals!
The house cat plays with string and purrs, the dog is loyal, and dolphins communicate and seem to have compassion on people who are in danger at sea. But all these qualities are far from abstract qualities found in humanity.
These cute animal favorites are a design of a Creator who made joy naturally present in nature.These fun qualities are a matter of selective instinct, not abstract qualities, and NOT of selective design, exclusive in every degree of extreme difference of any mammal to another mammal.
No mammals in all classifications and families has any exclusive difference, to any extreme degree except one. And no mammals except one is unique in every way beyond basic biological function except one. Only one mammal extremely irrelevant in every way to extreme degrees of difference one mammal to all mammals in superiority of intellegence, and in abstract qualities. And that is found in humanity.
The chaos of creation through evolution would have to show a chain of order that gives simple cells and organisms an ability and a thought to purposely create and design each independently and also in cooperative effort with specific planned design and intelligent design accomplished through the chaotic order of random assemblies through a random method of evolution. With random biological components assembling, and reassembling many times over with a specific end goal of each completed species.
Organisms would have to follow a logical sequence and intelligently place natural building blocks of biological substances of every level from basic instinct to conscience judgement to superior intellegence. And then not share any of those same cells spread throughout the entire world to use in the completion of any other species.
I'm not a rocket scientist but that sounds pretty unscientific!
Evolving creation in intelligent order requires intellegent assembly at the bare minimum.
What is the highest intelligent cell in existence? Because that must be the Maximality of Maximum Excellence. Find that cell, and we can build everthing we see in nature too.
and in in just one of all creatures evolved, without at least coming close to at least 1 other, but more likely many another species that are comprable to the same comprable intelligence!
building blocks of chaos produce intelligent design and those building blocks of conscience judgement should be profusely and liberally and at comparable degrees throughout all nature and visibly tangible in many creatures, and NOT exclusively only to the human quality, right?
What are the chemical compounds when broken down of fairness, truth and justice, of honor, or even dishonor?
Which molecules decide disgrace or lies, or even put standards of every degrees on crimes? What are the chemical compounds that establish a biological sequence needed for love and loyalty, hate, and betrayal?
Without any basis of standards derived from qualities of a Maximality, then why does conscience judgement in humanity house qualities beyond our basic biology?
Even if mental evolution leads to advanced science and technology of every kind as avanced intellect from biology evolves, what neurons in biology builds the basics of conscience judgement?
Do wolves hold court to decide if hunting practices are carried out according to an acceptable standards? Do gorillas vote for their leaders? Do lions decide on matters of justice and share their prey among the other prides out of compassion? Do bulls compete on the basis of charisma and likeability and appeal when mating? If all creatures are limited to basic natural instincts then why does conscience judgement exist at all?
So even if we have an intellectual Maximal Greatness, even that basically should dictate near equals in the same world from the same original building blocks. Where we incubated differently than a bear? Was the peri dish of nature that built man in a separate environment? If not then where are creatures equal to us in many ways, greater than us in some ways, and just below us in other ways?
Shouldn't all of creation have a relative degree of likeness in at least a likeness to our species? Don't we have gradual degrees of differences in like kinds in every species?
In nature we have many kinds found in the species of the cat family. from the house cat to the lion. But you don't only have the lion and the house cat.
There is no doubt there is a God, because these qualities plain and simply are not building blocks in every living thing, so they either don't exist in any living thing, or they potentially exist in every living thing. If they do not exist in every living thing, then the only logical conclusion is that Maximality exists, and has established qualities according to His own Maximality.
It is illogical to consider that even if complicated forms of life evolved from nothing but a spark of energy, came to being out of nothing, that only 1 form of all that life that came forth through that chaos would hold an exclusivity to conscience judgement in even the smallest of matters, let alone the broad matters of conscience judgement. This is absolute proof there is either dna or matter that can produce these qualities in humanity, and also outside of humanity. Other animals absolutely also must produce evidence of conscience judgement or there is no argument if there is a Maximality. The only argument that can follow that is not if there is a Maximality, but who is the Maximality!
If there is no basis for Conscience without a Maximality to define and establish a standard of conscience, then how does conscience judgement exist in the first place? And an even more disturbing question, is why and how then is it exclusive to ONLY 1 species?
So then why would conscience judgement exist among humanity, yet NOT exist in any other living thing produced in the same possible world togethet? Shouldn't we at least see many degrees of conscience judgement throughout nature that at least is comparable to conscience judgement found in humanity?
Wouldn't it make sense that if conscience judgement was evolved, that there would be further samplings of conscience judgement in the same possible world, living together?
The rule of logic leading to Maximum Greatness, by standards of Maximum Excellence is as follows.
Qualities pertaining to Maximum Excellence in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness is determined by the highest possible Evolution in any and every possible world.
Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!
Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!
1 Maximum Greatness exists in any and every possible world.
2 Maximum Excellence exists in every possible way relative to the greatest or at the very least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.
3 If any of the possible worlds consists of only ants and bugs, then Maximum Excellence is whatever qualities are necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in that possible world.
4 So Maximum Excellence is relative to the greater or at least minimum applications necessary to achieve highest evolution of Maximum Greatness for any and all possible world.
5 Maximum Excellence entails the application of qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness relative to any and every possible world.
6 There exists a Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.
7 Maximum Excellence as Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection are relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in every possible world.
8 What is impossible in one possible world, may be be possible in other possible worlds.
9 What is possible in one possible world may be impossible in another possible world.
10 The proposition, there exists an Omnicient, Omnipotent, and Morally Perfect Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in an actual possible world.
11 So the conclusion is there must be a Maximum Excellent Being in any and every possible world that has the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection relevant to the acievement of highest possible evolution in Maximum Greatness in that actual possible world .
12 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
13 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
14 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
15 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!
16 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!
17 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!
18 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.
1. Argument 1 is begging the question. You are starting with a premise that you need to prove and claiming it is true.
2. This maximal excellence term is undefined. The term used in argument 2 defines the maximum excellence that the world can handle which means you are begging the question again since you are assuming a maximal excellence that may not exist.
3. Argument 3 is meaningless.
4. Argument 4 is just repeating argument 2.
5. Argument 5 is false. The maximal excellence in one world may not be enough to represent the maximal excellence in another world.
6. Argument number 7 describes qualities that don't have to be included in a being of maximal excellence.
I don't know if maybe God will show you. I hope the things I shared made clear sense. I do believe we are approaching end times.
And maybe He will show you and you will be a child of light too.
Jesus said straight is the way that leads to life, few find it. And to destruction is a highway, many find that way. 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Isaiah 40
He sits on top of the CIRCLE of the earth, LOOKING DOWN at men looking like grasshoppers is
This is a circle, as in our world. It is hung in the sky, And God is sitting on top looking down, NOT at a flat plain circle. If it were flat, even a flat circle then how would GOD then sit on top, and see all of the contents of the world before Him?
Then how He see us as one would see from far up into the sky looking down, like in a plane. We appear small as grasshoppers.
Now God's vision is also God's vision not limited to 20/20.
So He can see as clearly as light Himself. But it shows knowledge of this prophet in the ancient writings by prophets! They saw a bigger picture, hands down!
The prophets never flew to the sky to come up with this point of reference, as it is so clearly described in Isaiah.
Now, they were prophetically directing the people in truth principles, and not science!
So they werent teaching the world was round, people may have not have even grasped that after reading it 1000s of times! They got the message God was sending, He is bigger than us, His mind is unreachable. Yet the prophet saw this... circle and a glimpse of how God sees.
God wasn't teaching them the world is round. But clearly the prophet still used actual scientific principals to describe God as All Powerful and All Knowing.
The point to them was simply that, but for us knowledge "will increase" that is said in Daniel!
So now we actually know even more about this verse because of principals of science. But STILL without the Spirit Helper opening our eyes, it's meaningless no matter how much knowledge we have today!! We can be blind with all the knowledge of Eternity right in our hands! Because the Spirit Helper shows us all things. Not knowledge or science!
Yet these prophets forethought in even scientific terms, because what they saw wasnt understood through science, it was understood through experience! Like planting in spring, they didn't understand it by science, just by experience.
For the prophet to think of God as looking down from that hight, on top of a round world, and we look like grasshoppers is experiencing advanced science, without any understanding of this science.
They may not have had a Hebrew equivalent for some "scientific words" but they are obvious by their experience!
If you take a minute to think about details of appearances in the Bible of all Heavenly beings in the Bible, even the Virgin Conception, even Satan falling from Heaven "like lightening," and "oh morning star, Lucifer," the Heavenly appearances always appear in a beam of light!!!
Please listen to my explanation before shutting off thought.
Jesus was fully God and fully man. The seed of promise through line of David.
Mary wasn't in the line of David.
Joseph was. And seed of promise was seed of God not Joseph!
And God commanded Him to stay with Mary and raise the child, the Seed of Promise.
The seed of God put into a Virgin, who was simply a righteous daughter ultimately dependent from Adam and Eve.
The seed of promise, is God's contribution to Mary's Immaculate Conception. Prophets saw ahead and called the future Messiah, Immanuel, meaning GOD WITH US! The term used is God with us on Earth, you can't contain pure Light, this miracle is Pure Light in the Son of man!
God's seed, His direct seed was placed into a daughter of man!
The scriptures used the best words available, and they had different words for the same word to give the clarity in the best terms available.
The the word for light used here in this verse from John:
Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."
In some of the verses the prophets in Old and New Testament chose to use this specific original term for "Light". They had some other words describing light, like glowing or shining, but they chose to use rays and beams for Light in this verse and many other verses.
Here is the words definition used in this verse: "to shine or make manifest especially by rays"
Verse from John:
Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life." Both of these words for light are light rays or beams!
So John in this verse chose to use rays or beams of light over another word describing light such as glow or illuminate.
So Jesus is saying "I Am rays, beams of light"
John 8:12
Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays) the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays) of life."
Eternal Life?? Time is neutral, Eternal, it stands still in a degree and time speed can go backward in time or forward in time. Light has no time limits.
Thoughts ....
God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,... Heavenly Bodies, Angels, Even Omnipotence and Omniscience, even the seeing and understanding of prophets SEEING a piece of the future and even Satan's fall from Heaven, these are described as movements of light, and living in the speed of light!
Jesus says Abiding in Him, as He in the Father, and us in Him, Scripture says walk as "children of the Light"
God knowing all things, the Father and showing the Son all things, all knowing, all prophesies, them even Enoch walked with God and God simply took him, did God beam Him up through the speed of light....?
Scientific terms were completely unknown till modern times... yet the concepts are advanced to year 2016 and even beyond 2016 science. Prophets understood every word as they experienced light in a way we can't but science proves if we could, we would!
God's light reaches through the entire space of time! The eternal past, the beginning of our days, today, tomorrow, to the end, and then beyond the end, through the eternal future!
Why would these prophets choose light as the term to describe Eternity, and an Eternal God?? They did not physically understand the properties of Light, yet they understood the experiences of the properties of Light!
5 "And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever."
New Jerusalem is an Eternity with no end, and the light of the Sun is too small. God Himself is greater LIGHT than the Sun.
HE Himself is the light that lights eternity!
Now why would they say that? The Sun is perfectly adequate to light, in their primitive knowledge they may have prophetically understood light by experience, not by data!
I get this, because I have experienced some of God's movement in this way showing me things.
The only way I can describe the experience is, Like Living Water rushing forth, in my mind and coming out of my being. Which is actually exactly how Jesus described it.
Sometimes I have one thing being shown by the Helper, The Holy Spirit Jesus promised to leave with us, and no matter if I hadn't read those scriptures in 30 years, they flow together in a moments time, like they are flowing all at once, with so much detail I can see it, but I almost can't grab any of it, but even the water left as dampness on my hand is Living Water. And is like looking at a glimpse into Eternity.
I can see, how the Bible says Satan took Jesus up to tempt Him before being crucified. Scripture says, and Satan in a moment showed Him all the kingdoms of the world, Lucifer was an angel of light, Lucifer understands light properties. And Lucifer still can appear as an angel of light!
I understand seeing content like that in "a moment"
I've experienced God show me things in that bazarr way.
We can briefly glimpse what and how God showed prophets what He showed them. He did it through Light. He is Pure Light!
When He spoke to them He showed them the future through the speed of light. For the moments of prophesy, they were in that ray of light to that time of prophesy God was showing them!
Prophets sometimes saw it in part, or through a haze, and sometimes clear AS DAY! Sometimes their minds were hazy at times clear, depending on God's time to reveal and what He was revealing at the moment to that prophet.
But these individuals saw prophesy, and not just future prophesy. They saw creation, they saw Satan cast to the earth, they saw present and God's word there, and they saw future all the way to the New Jerusalem with no sun yet no darkness, all light without sun, and Eternal - no time! The past, we see in Genesis, through time into the future we see in Revelations!
We were with Jesus from the beginning, and He knows the children of light, because He is light!
And He fully knows tomorrow as He knows yesterday!
And light doesn't limit Him at all because light has no time, nor time limitations!
We were with Him from the beginning because He is pure Light! And pure Light can be in the past present and future all at once.
And if you think of the Trinity. Let us make man in Our image.
All 3 were involved in creation!
All 3 can be in all 3 times periods all at once, there is no end to His light, "the darkness can't consume Him. We no that even a beam of light in dark matter is lost forever.
Well isn't Satan a beam of light lost forever?
I think these spiritual truths are truths to be known to children of light. The god of this world has blinded everyone else's eyes because even scientifically understanding light people are still consumed by darkness and can't see the Light, pure Light. God's Light.
We see dimly but in a twinkling of an eye we see more.
What happens in a twinkling of an eye?? Think of a camera.
An advanced highest quality camera! We can make movies throw energy into high speed Internet, but we can only glimpse in the twinkling to capture a fractio of a fraction of a .... fractions x fractions.... a twinkling of the speed of Pure Light!
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
The Mystery of Resurrection
50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, *
then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Can they co-exist and is it possible to co-exist are two separate things. If Christians could accept that their Bible - especially the book of Genesis - was never meant to be a scientific document; that Darwin and Moses never had coffee together, then yes, it could be possible. That said, I do not believe it is possible for all Christians to accept this, so the possibility of it co-existing is not likely.
Everyone knows that evolutionists and creationists dispute how the universe began. And regardless of which side of the battle line you’re on, most people harbor strong feelings about the issue of origins.
Yet there are a host of important questions at the core of the battle that relatively few in either camp have bothered to ask—much less answer:
Why is the issue of origins so universally controversial?
How can creationists support biblical claims that so obviously seem to contradict modern science?
Whose side of the argument does scientific evidence support?
What roles should science and the Bible play in a person’s beliefs about the physical universe?
With the curiosity of a student and the precision of a veteran Bible teacher, John MacArthur takes you to the heart of the battle in his study The Battle for the Beginning. Based on an in-depth examination of Genesis chapter 1, The Battle for the Beginning takes you on an instructive, fascinating journey into the Bible’s own claims about creation, evolution, and the vital issues at stake.
I would have to disagree with the second question about Creationism contradicting modern science. Both Creationists and Evolutionists use and agree on the observational science however their differing worldviews cause them to interpret the science differently.
I will disagree because the question is not can creationism and evolution co-exist, rather biblical theism. I stated this already in a standalone answer, but just to reiterate, if Christians can accept the Bible was never intended to be a scientific document, then yes, I do believe they can co-exist. Is it likely? I think so. No, you will never have 100% of Christians to think this, but many already do. Until I became an atheist I thought this way.
Depending on what is meant by Evolution the answer varies. If you mean the Evolution that we see today (micro changes that occur due to Natural Selection and Mutations) than yes it can. If you mean Darwinian Evolution, Neo-Darwinian Evolution, or Modern Day Evolutionary Theory than no they cannot exist together because they theorize and predict different things. For example: Evolution predicts the Origin Of Life occurred between 3-3.8 billion years ago. The Biblical Theism claims that a Global Flood occurred between 2350 BCE-2349 BCE. Or another example Evolution claims that a meteor strike during the Late-Cretaceous Period caused the Dinosaurs to mostly be extinct and caused an Ice Age that finished them off. Biblical Theism claims that God created the Universe in 6 Days (I know some will disagree with me on this). These views if examined are worlds apart from co-existing.
I think you may be missing some elements. That is a traditional read of everything, most people learn the stories and don't head in to see for themselves.
As a traditional read, as basic values it has a message, then it has Eternal depth also. So maybe this is version in the Bernstein Bible I read my granddaughter at night. But you shouldn't limit God by your limited knowledge. Its actually an amazing thing, I can look over something in the Bible and the Words run like Water and I can see for a few miles into Eternity. And you pick it up and there's nothing but words.
I hope someday you experience that. There is no end to the depth of Wisdom. God is undeniable!
The Christian Bible, at least the Old Testament or what the Jews call their Torah, CANNOT coincide with the science and fact of Evolution. Since it has a fantasy book called genesis which, in addition to having talking snakes and a hapless god who has to ask "where are you?" advocates a sis-day creation. (One in which, to add to its absurdity, this idiot god creates plants before the sun!)
Now then..................The New Testament IS sort of capable of coinciding with science, so long as one forgets that the main character, this rabbi cum carpenter cum political insurrectionist named Yeshua believed in the Torah.
If one is just a Christian in the sense that he tries to learn and follow the teachings of Jesus, but knows--as do all rational people--that Evolution is TRUE--well, then we will let him into our circle of Science and Knowledge. Maybe.
There also is a school of thought called Theistic Evolution, in which the believers think that Evolution DID occur as we materialist/atheist Biologists say it did, but that it was guided by god.
This is better than an OT Creationist view, to be sure, but it is still misguided and wrong.
Intelligent Design (ID) is simply the Theists' attempt to not lost ALL face--as they have been doing for decades--and throw a bit of psuedo science into their belief system and try to call it real science.
The vast majority of scientists disdain ID, knowing what that it is tantamount to putting a pair of fake specs on a pic and trying yo make him look learned.
If you have eyes to see it, and a heart to understand it. It has no contradictions and the depth of it. It's the path of great wisdom. With oracles spoken with a few simple texts.
I read it and it's fluid. Literally like Water!
Jesus said come to the Living Water. I've experienced that in that book. Oh my God such depth!
You are saddlly mistaken about the Bible!
Isaiah 40
21 Do you not know? Have you not heard?
Has it not been declared to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
From Genesis to Revelations, many times Eternity is spoken of, and many timed it is referred to as LIGHT, God Himself as PURE LIGHT.
What is time goes by in a beam of light? Eternity equals Light!
And in the above text in Isaiah 40 says He sits above the circle of the earth.
But to answer your question, apes are still around, of course. Why shouldn't they be? We did not evolve from them, and evolution does not claim we did.
The fact you don't even know this very simple and basic fact on the elementary tenets of the Evolutionary process just proved you have no business denying it. Since you do not understand it at all.
No.....we Evolutionists never claimed that homo sapiens evolved from apes.
Rather....we merely shared a common ancestor up until about six million years ago, before we split-off onto our own hominid species, beginning with a. afarensis.
So this proves you know zilch about a topic--Evolution--that you continually denigrate and refute.
I sure hope you are not as equally clueless about ALL the topics you rant against.
But it is quickly appearing as if you indeed are.
Hmm....must suck to be you.
LOL
Here....read-up a bit. Allow me to try and alleviate some of your ignorance on this matter................
Correction on "we Evolutionists never claimed that homo sapiens evolved from apes" Evolutionists claimed that up until the discovery of DNA. Than they changed the theory.
We didn't evolve from apes, we just had a common ancestor. And even if we did, that argument still doesn't hold up. If you came from parents, why are there still parents?
If americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
by the way stop thinking everyones a progressive, progressives a special kind of stupid.
There are many highly educated and respected Christians who believe in theistic evolution, but it is not Biblical. Can evolution and Biblical Theism Co-exist? what does that mean? lies exist, the truth exists, so they co-exist. Evolution or millions or Billibionions of thrillions of years is not in the Bible except in eternity past before God created anything and in eternity future after evil is forever confined in the Lake of Fire.
Evolution is completely unbiblical. Some Christians (at least they claim to be Christians and in many cases they do seem to be true Christians) make the mistake of not believing God spoke all creatures into existence and choose rather to compromise with ungodly people who believe in evolution.
The Christian Bible, at least the Old Testament or what the Jews call their Torah, CANNOT coincide with the science and fact of Evolution. Since it has a fantasy book called genesis which, in addition to having talking snakes and a hapless god who has to ask "where are you?" advocates a sis-day creation. (One in which, to add to its absurdity, this idiot god creates plants before the sun!)
Now then..................The New Testament IS sort of capable of coinciding with science, so long as one forgets that the main character, this rabbi cum carpenter cum political insurrectionist named Yeshua believed in the Torah.
If one is just a Christian in the sense that he tries to learn and follow the teachings of Jesus, but knows--as do all rational people--that Evolution is TRUE--well, then we will let him into our circle of Science and Knowledge. Maybe.
There also is a school of thought called Theistic Evolution, in which the believers think that Evolution DID occur as we materialist/atheist Biologists say it did, but that it was guided by god.
This is better than an OT Creationist view, to be sure, but it is still misguided and wrong.
Intelligent Design (ID) is simply the Theists' attempt to not lost ALL face--as they have been doing for decades--and throw a bit of psuedo science into their belief system and try to call it real science.
The vast majority of scientists disdain ID, knowing what that it is tantamount to putting a pair of fake specs on a pic and trying yo make him look learned.