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Debate Info

59
40
Yes, it can. No, it cannot.
Debate Score:99
Arguments:121
Total Votes:123
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Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes, it can. (36)
 
 No, it cannot. (28)

Debate Creator

Brylos(70) pic



Can Socialism work? If it can, should it?

I want to get an intelligent debate going on this topic. It seems I can't speak of socialism/communism without illogical people just saying it can't work without any sort of logic as to why that is the case. Let's settle it right here. Give reasoning to explain why it can or cannot work, then explain if it should or you wish it could.

Yes, it can.

Side Score: 59
VS.

No, it cannot.

Side Score: 40
2 points

I don't see why It can't. There is a huge reservoir that is all the rich people, take it from them, because they're the one who have been exploiting us for gain in the first place, then distribute it among the common people. Have it so employees are basically board members who have a vote in what is done with wages and company profits. If they want to stick the cash in their pockets, amen. If they want to reinvest in their company, amen. Then, because people will have more money, taxes can be increased, which can go to provide services for everybody like healthcare, and higher education.

Side: Yes, it can.
Negligentt(397) Disputed
1 point

The richest 1% in the United States don't have enough accumulated wealth to fix social security, much less the other thousands of social services. If they can take whatever they want from those with a lot, guess who else they can take whatever they want from whether they have a lot or not..

Side: No, it cannot.
Brylos(70) Disputed
1 point

It would certainly help fix those issues. And the reality is rich people wouldn't be rich without poor people. You could argue they took the money. It's better to have it balanced than an economic free for all.

Side: Yes, it can.
2 points

Of course it can work. In theory it's the fairest known economic system. The problem is stopping capitalists from sabotaging it. Some very powerful people stand to lose everything if socialism becomes the norm, and they will go to quite literally any lengths to prevent it.

Side: Yes, it can.
1 point

I hate it man. It's really not that different from being a slave imo.

Side: Yes, it can.

I hate it man. It's really not that different from being a slave imo.

It's even worse than that because capitalism doesn't need to use force. Instead, it "manufactures consent" (borrowing a phrase used by Ed Herman/Noam Chomsky). With force there is always the risk of rebellion. If you run a system based entirely on brainwashing people then rebellion is much less likely to ever be a problem. It becomes very easy to turn public opinion against the rebels by framing them as the bad guys.

Side: Yes, it can.
Gossip_lies(9) Disputed
0 points

You're a liar. I bet your one of the republicans who does the EXACT same thing one way or another. Stop being a hypocrite.

Side: No, it cannot.
Quantumhead(749) Disputed
0 points

You're a liar. I bet your one of the republicans

Omg. Sigh... I think it's fairly obvious which of us is the Republican by the simple fact that you're an idiot.

Side: Yes, it can.
2 points

Hello B:

Your local fire department is socialism personified.. The government owns the means of production.. Everybody pays for fire protection and everybody is covered... It seems to work pretty good. What's more socialistic than that??

We CAN and SHOULD do the same thing with health care..

However, the above programs ONLY work within the framework of capitalism, because if incentive is removed from the equation, the equation falls apart..

excon

Side: Yes, it can.
outlaw60(15368) Clarified
0 points

CON can only use the fire department as his view of Socialism LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Yes, it can.
outlaw60(15368) Clarified
0 points

Hey STUPID does the government build the firetrucks ??????????????????

Side: Yes, it can.
excon(18260) Clarified
2 points

Hello Poochy boy?

The government PAYS for it, OWNS it, and OPERATES it.. Who the fuck cares who built it???

Now, go get this bone.

excon

Side: Yes, it can.
outlaw60(15368) Clarified
0 points

CON believes fire departments are Socialist LMMFAO !!!!! So CON are police departments Socialist as well ?

Side: Yes, it can.
excon(18260) Clarified
2 points

Hello poochy boy,

Indeed, they ARE.. The government OWNS the means of production.. Everybody PAYS for it and EVERYBODY gets it EQUALLY. Uhhhh, that's socialism.

Wanna know something else, poochy boy??? The MILITARY is ALSO socialism.. The government OWNS the means of production.. We ALL pay for it, and we ALL get it.

What??? Have you ever BOUGHT police or fire protection??? Do you have a private army???

DUDE!!

Now, SIT... That's a good boy..

excon

Side: Yes, it can.
Brylos(70) Clarified
1 point

Granted they aren't exclusive to socialism, but if you look at it objectively, fire departments and police departments are a socialist system.

Side: Yes, it can.
2 points

EVERY economic or governance system CAN work, given the right set of circumstances and the right timing. Pretty much NONE of them work forever. That's why we have a world of change happening around us constantly. If any one form of economy and governance was so wildly successful it became a no brainer then most of the world would then adopt that, eventually. They don't. Because there isn't. They all have their warts. And also the needs and influence of the people they serve have their warts, too.

Side: Yes, it can.
outlaw60(15368) Clarified
1 point

Boston Boy do you own a TV ? Who built that TV ? You obviously own a computer was that computer built by the government ?

Side: Yes, it can.
2 points

America did very well under democratic socialism until Reagan stepped in and started "trickle UP" capitalism. He called it trickle down, but he WAS having a confusion syndrome. Anyway, Teddy Roosevelt broke up the American oligarch (Russia has it now), and we slowly worked into democratic socialism. We had our best years after the NEXT Roosevelt took over. One was a Republican, one a Democrat. We need that kind of non-partisanship working FOR America, again. Reagan killed a portion of it and we've been in turmoil ever since. Those that want to "MAGA" MOSTLY don't even know what America was when it WAS GREAT! When it WAS democratic socialism ... which seemed to generate much more non-partisanship. I wish (hope) we make America great again, Trump will NOT do it. HE could destroy U.S.

Side: Yes, it can.
outlaw60(15368) Clarified
0 points

Crazy AL if it was not for capitalism you would not have a means for spewing your stupidity !

Side: Yes, it can.
Quantumhead(749) Clarified
2 points

Crazy AL if it was not for capitalism you would not have a means for spewing your stupidity !

LOL. Yeah, capitalism invented computers, outlaw. It wasn't like, science, or anything crazy like that. Without capitalism there would be no technological evolution of any kind. Ahahahahahahahahaha!

Except wait, technological evolution predates capitalism by some 96 thousand years. Go figure.

Side: Yes, it can.
Brylos(70) Disputed
1 point

Hate to tell you man, but you're the one spewing stupidity. Capitalism didn't create the idea of free speech. To assert that you can't have one without the other is bollocks.

Side: No, it cannot.
1 point

Can forms of socialism work? Yes, of course they can. That's why things like state schools, public roads, public water systems, etc. exist. If you want to see unrestrained capitalism in action, then go to Somalia and see how you like it.

The non-facetious answer to the question I suspect you were actually trying to ask, does a fully socialist state system work, is that the historical evidence mostly suggests that it does not. It's important to note, however, that this doesn't mean, as some conservatives try to suggest, that trying to ameliorate the extremes of capitalism or trying to add those socialist aspects which can be seen to work is somehow automatically doomed to failure.

Side: Yes, it can.
Quantumhead(749) Disputed
1 point

The non-facetious answer to the question I suspect you were actually trying to ask, does a fully socialist state system work, is that the historical evidence mostly suggests that it does not.

This is quite simply a complete aberration of the facts. The best economic system is not decided by a war any more than the best comic book is decided by an after school fight in the playground. The historical evidence shows that America did everything in its economic and military power to prevent socialism from even taking a grip, let alone succeeding as a viable alternative for the future.

Side: No, it cannot.

NATIONAL SOCIALISM worked great until the conspiracists defeated it! Go read on the economic recovery when NS took over. There’s a certain group of bankers that will have you killed if you try to start your own money😉

Side: Yes, it can.

Get ready to have no say in which doctor you see. You like Dr. Johnson? Too bad. This is socialized. You want to go to a doctor an hour away? Too bad. This is socialized. You want to see a doctor today? Bwahahahaha! Ahem. Good luck with that.

Side: No, it cannot.
2 points

It can't work. It is the gospel of envy, the equal sharing of misery, as Churchill put it. As Margaret Thatcher said, Socialism's problem is eventually you run out of other peoples' money.

A system of "equality" has fatal flaws.

1)If you don't reward hard work, and reward sloth equally, all you will get is sloth.

2)No one would have any incentive to do a skilled or hard job.

3)It demands rationing. Rationing of meds, medical attention, and food. Venezuela is a current example of Socialism in practice. The food has been rationed "equally" on a card. But that amount of food equals? Starvation. There are people hunting pets for food. It was a rich, healthy nation like the U.S. Now it's a third world hellhole on the brink of civil war. They'd love to be under a Capitalist system. What you find with the government is they are horrible at running things. Just go to a typical DMV and tell me how your government controlled experience was.

4)The lines and waiting lists to see a doctor are enormous. You'll die or get well before you receive help many times. When meds are free? Lines are obnoxiously long. Imagine the hypochondriac response to free medical...

5)And of course we know it isn't really free. Socialists put the bill on their children's credit card. The problem becomes your children's problem.

6)Your work pay will be decimated by taxes. Enjoy.

Side: No, it cannot.
Cartman(18192) Clarified
0 points

Just an FYI, a system of "equality" is communism, not socialism.

Side: Yes, it can.
Brylos(70) Disputed
-2 points
2 points
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
0 points

I know someone who moved to Canada and was forced to move back to save their daughter's life.

Side: No, it cannot.
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
0 points

Everybody would be more equally rewarded

So why would anyone join the military or become a surgeon...

Side: No, it cannot.
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
0 points

Literally a blank statement based on nothing

Sure it is. If there is equal incentive, I'll do the easiest job and nothing else.

Side: No, it cannot.
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
0 points

Venezuela is not a victim of socialism, it is a victim of bad money management

It's a victim of a socialist dictatorship.

Side: No, it cannot.
2 points

The problem with pure socialism is that if people don't naturally flow into certain professions, the system is obligated, in order to not collapse, to force people to do jobs they don't want to do. So you very well could end up being a surgeon making nothing for wages. And then, should I trust a surgeon who was forced to be a surgeon and makes nothing for wages to cut on my body?

Side: No, it cannot.
Brylos(70) Clarified
1 point

Okay but why do you assume people wouldn't want those roles? People are willing to take shit jobs in capitalism and I'm sure there are people with the desire to be surgeons from a scientific and not economic standpoint.

Side: Yes, it can.
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
2 points

Okay. Equal pay, equal incentive. Now convince me to join the military.

Side: Yes, it can.
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
2 points

People are willing to take shit jobs in capitalism

And people are willing to do highly skilled jobs under capitalism because of higher wages.

Side: Yes, it can.
BellaSmella(171) Disputed
2 points

I'm sure there are people with the desire to be surgeons from a scientific and not economic standpoint.

We have a shortage of doctors and surgeons now, as we speak, and that's while being paid handsomly. Imagine it once we flood them due to "free healthcare" and take away their high wages.

Side: Yes, it can.
1 point

For the romantics Socialism seems to offer some advantages over Capitalism.

In reality it has never worked and never will.

This form of economic system which centres on common ownership, government controls all price and production levels.

Another feature of this failed ideology means that government has most, if not full control of people's lives, including where to live, how much they earn and what benefits they may receive.

Taxes have to be higher in Socialist systems as the government needs to subsidise the public services which are either free or provided at below cost so the wealth and job creating entrepreneurs relocate to a free market/Capitalist society where their talents will be rewarded'

Unions and workers have too much power and, as been demonstrated many times, when 'the tail wags the dog' inevitably disaster ensues.

Socialism pretty well eliminates ambition driven motivation.

The ''American Dream' which rewards hard work, innovation and self reliance is sidelined in favour for a less stressful life and promotes the fanciful notion that everyone is owed a living so they lay back and enjoy a life of state benefits, UNTIL THE STATE RUN OUT OF DOSH WITH WHICH TO PAY FOR THE FREE HANDOUTS.

The concept of ''THE STATE'' CONTROLLING PEOPLE'S LIVES 'FROM CRADLE TO GRAVE' SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK IN REALITY.

Side: No, it cannot.
Brylos(70) Clarified
3 points

1)"This form of economic system which centres on common ownership, government controls all price and production levels."

That's simply not true. Worker cooperatives are a system of private ownership that operate within socialist economies and generate it's own welfare making everyone have better living standards on average.

https://monthlyreview.org/2015/02/01/cooperatives-on-the-path-to-socialism/

2)"Another feature of this failed ideology means that government has most, if not full control of people's lives, including where to live, how much they earn and what benefits they may receive."

Give me specific examples otherwise this doesn't mean anything.

3)"Unions and workers have too much power and, as been demonstrated many times, when 'the tail wags the dog' inevitably disaster ensues."

I understand the analogy but translate this into real examples in history because that really isn't saying anything. It's on you to explain why it doesn't work and an analogy about a dog won't cut it.

4) "The ''American Dream' which rewards hard work, innovation and self reliance is sidelined in favour for a less stressful life and promotes the fanciful notion that everyone is owed a living so they lay back and enjoy a life of state benefits, UNTIL THE STATE RUN OUT OF DOSH WITH WHICH TO PAY FOR THE FREE HANDOUTS."

There are plenty of people within capitalism that work very hard and have no prospect of seeing financial advancement and live pay check to pay check. It's getting worse as well.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-why-you-cant-survive-on-the-minimum-wage-2016-10-25

Side: Yes, it can.
Quantumhead(749) Disputed
1 point

For the romantics Socialism seems to offer some advantages over Capitalism.

For intellectually challenged idiots it makes more sense that 90 percent of society struggle so that the other 10 percent can live like kings. This makes perfect sense of course, which they prove by twisting language in order to mock you. Poverty, starvation and homelessness are all acceptable prices to pay because the alternative is to be a hopeless romantic.

In reality it has never worked and never will.

In reality it has been sabotaged and/or destroyed by American capitalists every time it has ever been tried. You are such corrupt, dishonest, self-centred pigs, that you have attacked it all over the world, in South America, in Asia and in Europe, and after winning the Cold War you now simply pretend that you had nothing to do with its demise. The reality is that it DID work, at least as well as capitalism worked, for over seventy years, until the arms race against America led to the breakdown of the Soviet economy. In fact, it was precisely Soviet military strength during WW2 which made Americans so paranoid about "the red scare" in the first place. Your empty rhetoric and repetition of standardised appeals to fallacy when discussing the left are direct representations of the state propaganda Americans lived through during the Cold War.

You are a dishonest fucking moron with a bizarrely revisionist understanding of contemporary history and that is a fact.

Side: Yes, it can.
1 point

Nobody would seriously ask this question of Capitalism. .

Side: No, it cannot.
bozwallocks(44) Disputed
2 points

Maybe they should with all the damage it is causing.........

Side: Yes, it can.
Brylos(70) Clarified
1 point

What do you mean? That it doesn't make sense to question capitalism? I really hope that's not what you mean.

Side: Yes, it can.
Quantumhead(749) Disputed
1 point

What do you mean? That it doesn't make sense to question capitalism? I really hope that's not what you mean.

That's exactly what he means. Amarel is a deceiver who uses psychological tricks to try to influence what people think. This particular "The Emperor Has No Clothes" fallacy is one of his favourites. He throws out an unsupported -- usually stupid -- assertion and hints that it is foolish to dispute it. Fear of mockery persuades a lot of people to simply accept his premise without questioning it.

Side: Yes, it can.
Amarel(5669) Disputed
1 point

There are lots of things to question about capitalism, but whether it works is not one of them. The history of Capitalisms success, especially when compared to the history of socialisms obismal failures, would lead people to ask if socialism can work; We already know that capitalism does.

The degree to which economic freedom is adopted correlates to degrees of economic success. The correlation is so obvious, that even Communist China has moved toward Capitalism.

Socialism cannot work at all unless there is enough of a capitalistic host for the parasitic socialist to survive.

Side: Yes, it can.