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Debate Info

53
44
Yes No
Debate Score:97
Arguments:105
Total Votes:103
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (49)
 
 No (38)

Debate Creator

BlueFang24(54) pic



Can any being (such as God) be all powerful?

There is a famous paradox known as the Omnipotence Paradox which states that omnipotence is self-contradictory when you ask the question "Can God (omnipotent) create a rock that He Himself cannot lift?"  This question arises a problem.  If God could create such a rock then He would not be able to lift it making it so He would not be omnipotent.  If God couldn't create such a rock then He would not be omnipotent because He would not be able to create such a rock. So, is an omnipotent being (such as God) possible?

Yes

Side Score: 53
VS.

No

Side Score: 44
3 points

The description is not actually a paradox. It is describing something that is impossible. Being all powerful doesn't mean being able to do the impossible. God cannot create a married bachelor either. A rock that an all powerful God can't lift is impossible.

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
2 points

The argument of the paradox is simply to show that an omnipotent being, such as God, could not do everything conceivable, at least according to logic.

Side: No
Cartman(18205) Disputed
1 point

And as I pointed out, it doesn't show that. Omnipotent doesn't mean being able to do what is impossible. An omnipotent being cannot make a triangle with 4 sides. An omnipotent being cannot make a square with unequal sides.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

What you are doing is saying that if God is omnipotent, He must be able to prove that He is not omnipotent. That's goofy, it only proves that you have squirrels running circles in your brain.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

If I were you, I would go to the person who taught you to think this way and tell them that they are evil.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

This is not a paradox, it is an absurdity. It is absurd to say that in order prove He is omnipotent, God must be able to do something proving He is not omnipotent.

Whoever told you that this kind of thinking is intelligent was lying, and if you think it is intelligent they have made you into a fool.....or you did it to yourself.

Side: Yes
1 point

False. If a man with the last name "Bachelor" got married, you'd be wrong. If God came into a body too weak to move the rock, noticed the inability to lift and then decided to lift the rock omnipotently, you'd be wrong again. Of course, what's new? Your brain can't think beyond your feet.

Side: No
Cartman(18205) Disputed
1 point

I said married bachelor. Not a married Bachelor.

You don't believe in God. You believe in your ideology. The worst part of your ideology is that it involves you not thinking in any way. You really should update your ideology. It doesn't even match Christianity.

Side: Yes

There is a famous paradox known as the Omnipotence Paradox which states that omnipotence is self-contradictory when you ask the question "Can God (omnipotent) create a rock that He Himself cannot lift?"  This question arises a problem

Not really. If God chooses, He can jump in my body to see what mortal strength is like, not be able to lift the stone, then go back to His normal state and toss said stone into outer space like a frisbee.

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
1 point

Perhaps I was not clear enough with my wording. The rock that God would not be able to life would be with all of His godly strength, therefore the explanation of jumping into a mortal body would not work.

Side: No
1 point

He can use any agent he wants to see what it is like to "not be able to lift" said stone, perhaps a simulation. I could use a virtual reality simulation to know what it's like to be pregnant. Am I pregnant? No. Can I be in reality? No. But I can simulate it. It's simply an ignorant concept that militant atheists came up with thinking it was smart to outwit theists with low or medium comprehension skills. If the theist is highly intelligent, they just scoff, give you ways around it and use it as an example to say atheists are mental midgets.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

the explanation of jumping into a mortal body does not work because if God is limited to a mortal body, He is not God....and so you would be left with your absurdity of God creating a rock so big He cannot lift it.

For a rock to be too big for God to lift, the rock would have to be bigger than God, and that is not possible since God is omnipresent. God cannot make Himself stop being God. You are trying to make God stop being God, you are being absurd, and you are losing against God.

Side: Yes

So, is an omnipotent being (such as God) possible?

Absolutely. 3 schools of philosophical thought.

1) If reality is finite, he'd be the highest/most powerful possible being in said "finite reality".

2)If reality is infinite, he is the highest possible/powerful being in an infinite reality.

3)He is beyond comprehension, being from outside time and space. He is abstract, a consciousness, all things and concepts and data exist beyond our reality, and he is the highest possible being in said reality, nothing can "not exist" in said reality, thus He created our reality. This also explains why no one dies in God's eternal "beyond time" existance, explains why demons must be imprisoned eternally, and explains why reality is forever and eternal. He is simply the greatest possibility beyond space and time.

Side: Yes
1 point

He could go to advanced weight lifting classes and take performance enhancing drugs such as anabolic steroids.

This strength building activity combined with his inherent might should mean that he could do bench press with Jupiter, the largest planet in our solar system while making love to Mrs, God.

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
1 point

If there were to be an omnipotent being then they should already be able to lift Jupiter, no weight lifting classes or PEDs necessary.

Side: No
Antrim(974) Disputed
1 point

Everyone, including the big shy silent man up there zooming around the heavens, can benefit by spending a little time at the gym, especially if there is a clutch of chicks in tight fitting leotards prancing around.

Side: Yes
1 point

My first question would be, how big or heavy is the rock?

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
1 point

The hypothetical rock could be infinitely dense, so in this case size wouldn't matter. The rock would have to be so heavy that God cannot lift it, or if that is not possible, then God wouldn't be omnipotent. It is simply impossible and by presenting this problem some atheists believe that an omnipotent God who can do everything imaginable is not possible.

Side: No
luckin(161) Clarified
1 point

Except that making a finite creation with an infinite characteristic is a category mistake. Either the rock is completely finite or its infinite. Can't have both at the same time

Side: Yes
skipsaweirdo(3) Disputed
1 point

The phrasing of the question uses a semantic deflection...

Define the terms....

Make=create? If so then...(if you disagree please explain)

Lift=(what is defined as lifting to peoples perceptions) example could be NASA using the term liftoff. That is essentially lifting an object from Earths surface to the moon. So the object was lifted , rockets lifted the objects in question2. Agree?!

So, God creates a rock and by definition the act of creating includes the ability to "uncreate". Agreed?

God creates the rock in texas

God "uncreates" the rock

God creates the same rock again, this time on the moon.

Simply removing the word lift, which plays a semantic role in the so called paradox, exposes the idiocy of the challenge.

So one concludes logically that create includes what humans perceive as lift as well as making the rock.

The paradox itself is a straw man of God because it defines God in human terms. A God doesn't need to "lift" things like people do so to assert that God lifts to achieve the same goal as humans contradicts what God is, hence the straw man.

Side: Yes
1 point

Only One can be omnipotent, only God can be omnipotent, to say another being can be omnipotent would be nonsense.

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
1 point

I apologize if I offended you/your views in any way, but I was trying to word it so that it could be all inclusive to any omnipotent being one might believe in.

Side: No
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

You have not offended me at all. All you are doing is showing that you prefer absurdity over logic.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

There can only be one omnipotent being. It is absurd to say there can be more than one omnipotent being. What you believe in is absurd. If you are offended it's your own fault.

Side: Yes
1 point

It is an absurdity to ask if God can create a rock so big He cannot move it. That is like saying can a square be round. The intent of the question from the start is to deny that God is God. It is not possible for God to be absurd, the question is an absurdity.

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
1 point

"It is an absurdity to ask if God can create a rock so big He cannot move it."

This is true as it is an impossibility, but the goal of the question is to prove that an omnipotent being who can do anything and everything conceivable is illogical.

Side: No
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

It is your question and statement which is illogical. God cannot be God if a thing can be more powerful than Him. To ask if a thing can be more powerful than God implies that God is not omnipotent. Your question and logic is absurd, i.e., nonsense.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1274) Clarified
1 point

It is absurd to say that if God is omnipotent he must be able to prove that He is not omnipotent.

Side: Yes
skipsaweirdo(3) Disputed
1 point

The challenge doesn't expose an illogical idea in regards to the concept of omnipotence. The challenge itself is illogical. It treats God as if God were human...(that's a straw man)..I.e. That a god that can create a rock must also be limited to the human thing known as lifting.

Side: Yes
1 point

It kind of sounds like Thor's hammer. Only He who is worthy can lift the rock. Since He is worthy, He would be able to lift the rock that other's can not.

Side: Yes
1 point

I've always had a problem with the assertion that this is a paradox. The reason being that by asking a theoretically omnipotent being to create something they cannot lift is setting it against itself. In other words you are asking it to overcome it's own power. Since an omnipotent being can create an infinitely large rock and can lift an infinitely large rock they cannot make a rock so big that they cannot lift it.

Side: Yes
1 point

Only if they're a Sith. ..........................................................................................

Side: Yes
1 point

Only God can be omnipotent. Asking if God can create a rock so big that He cannot move it is asking if God can stop being God. God cannot stop being God; don't be silly.

It is absurd to imply that in order to be omnipotent, God must be able to do things which prove He is not God; things which prove He is not omnipotent. The question is stupid, and if you think it logically disproves the reality of God, you have to be retarded or have a severe mental block learning problem.

Side: Yes
-1 points

Can there be one? No.

But this paradox is easily solvable. Primarily, the greatest weight a rock can have is the weight of the earth itself. Beyond that, it will be the Earth going down rather than the rock going up. It's much like lifting the Earth while standing on, say, a plank of wood.

Side: Yes
BlueFang24(54) Disputed
1 point

We're talking about the abilities of an omnipotent being, so the argument about Earth makes no sense. The lifting of the rock could happen on any plane with the same laws of weight (gravity). The question itself is if an omnipotent being could make a rock that they could not lift. The place is irrelevant to the question and your argument is flawed either way as Jupiter is heavier than Earth meaning that it could take place on a planet larger than Earth. The two rocks could be stacked to use as a place to lift the one of the rocks from.

Side: No
1 point

That wasn't the hardest part, though. The solution was easy - separate two big rocks.

But gravitation will still be a finite force, no matter how massive the rocks might be. You failed to guess the solution far enough. Beyond some distance, the effects would be negligible.

This question is just an example of not understanding lifting stuff and gravitation.

Side: Yes
0 points

There is a famous paradox known as the Omnipotence Paradox which states that omnipotence is self-contradictory when you ask the question "Can God (omnipotent) create a rock that He Himself cannot lift?" This question arises a problem. If God could create such a rock then He would not be able to lift it making it so He would not be omnipotent. If God couldn't create such a rock then He would not be omnipotent because He would not be able to create such a rock. So, is an omnipotent being (such as God) possible?

This isn't a true paradox; it's a semantic paradox. It's like saying if God can't create a black white then he isn't omnipotent. That would be false. But more to the point of the question:

Can (a) God be omnipotent?

Well, first of all, there is no evidence that a God exists, so any logical processes derived from the assumption are purely hypothetical and have no discernable basis in reality. Now that we've got that out of the way, we can play "what colour are the fairies?"

If it were even possible for an a transcendental being to exist, that being would by its definition defy the very laws of matter and energy that are fundamental to our universe as it is. I would cite the anthropic principle here. What doesn't exist within the constraints of existence, is irrelevant to existence, and the conceptual "nothing" is the ultimate misnomer.

But let's go further and assume a God exists. Is that God omnipotent? Well, according to the Bible, yes. The bible has been generally translated to say that God is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

To quote Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is usually the best one.

It is overwhelmingly more likely that rather than there being an unfalsifiable, unprovable, untestable, invisible God of such monumental and irreconcilable contradictions, instead there is no God at all, and the Bible is nothing but a collection of myths passed down by ignorant ancients.

Side: No
NowASaint(1274) Disputed
1 point

It only takes a simple sentence to show this line of thinking is void of logic.

It is absurd to say that if God is omnipotent he must be able to prove that He is not omnipotent.

Side: Yes
seanB(339) Disputed
1 point

What?

God doesn't prove anything. God is a metaphysical concept, the acceptance of which is based on nothing logical whatsoever, but rather pure speculation and thought abstract from any tangible relationship to testable reality.

"God" is not a logical idea to begin with.

Side: No
1 point

If you cannot create anything that you cannot do, then you are omnipotent because nothing can be created that you cannot do. It's a stupid argument because it doesn't even make sense. And some tortured definition of omnipotence doesn't make God magically disappear. Atheists have resorted in desperation to logical fallacies and emotional appeals, and they don't even know why.

Side: Yes
0 points

Assuming for the sake of argument that:

1. us humans were created by an individual more powerful than any other,

2. This supreme being did not intend for any individuals to turn out

evil

3. The created beings were given free will

This supreme being lacks the abilty to create conditions in which being good is attractive enough for everyone to freely choose it over evil

Side: No
outlaw60(8861) Disputed
1 point

"This supreme being lacks the ability to create conditions in which being good is attractive enough for everyone to freely choose it over evil"

Great analogy of the Muslim faith !

Side: Yes
1 point

Or just didn't have any desire to create things the way that you think work for you because he's seen every possible possibility infinite times, and will do what he wants whether atheists approve or not as if by magic...

Side: Yes