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Debate Info

60
56
Yes (weak lifter) No (weak creator)
Debate Score:116
Arguments:101
Total Votes:128
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Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes (weak lifter) (50)
 
 No (weak creator) (43)

Debate Creator

Banana_Slug(845) pic



Can god create rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

so which is it?

Yes (weak lifter)

Side Score: 60
VS.

No (weak creator)

Side Score: 56
2 points

My favorite theists argument about this subject God can make the rock growing but he could lift it if it kept growing.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

but that is an answer for a different question. :D

Side: No (weak creator)
2 points

Yes a pebble.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
4 points

No wait something imaginary can't even do that.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
2 points

this is stupid. he could just make a big rock( or a small one) and then weaken himself to not be able to lift it. And even if he cant lift, he can shift it with his mind or his omnipotence

Side: Yes (weak lifter)

Does he even lift?

He doesn't even lift.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)

If he can't lift it, then he is no God.-------------------------

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
1 point

well something that doesn't even exist and is imaginary in the first place cant even begin to try and create a rock, or anything else for that matter :)

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
3 points

Your question is illogical. It equivocates upon inability: omnipotence does not claim to be able to do the logically impossible as theologians have historically believed: such as making a married bachelor or a square circle. Because God is omnipotent then He cannot be anything other than omnipotent. Therefore, He cannot create a rock bigger than He can lift.

However, because we don't know whether He can or cannot do these things, then we cannot say He cannot, which means that He might be able to create a rock that is bigger than He can lift. Moreover, if this were possible it would mean that He could do the logically incoherent, meaning going against His omnipotence. This would then mean that He would be able to create a rock that is bigger than He can lift and be able to lift it. Which ever way you look at it the question advocates God's being.

Side: No (weak creator)
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

The point is to show the impossibility of Omnipotence. If a being is omnipotent then it does not need anything, so it wouldn't create a universe to get results of experiments that he as a perfect being already knows.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
2 points

That's right. He doesn't need anything from us because if He gives us everything and created everything and is sovereign then it would be impossible for Him to receive anything from us in the "absolute" sense (Plato's Republic, Socrates). However, He does as He pleases and that was to create the universe. But regardless, the question you asked originally does not deny the omnipotence of God.

Side: No (weak creator)
2 points

Not if he gave it free will.

Side: No (weak creator)
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

so he cannot see all futures? ...then he isn't omnipotent.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
Akulakhan(2973) Disputed
1 point

yeah basically, god always finds a way to cheat the system to 'lift the unliftable rock', but the one thing he cannot do is defy himself, so given the gift of free will, we can be the thing that is unalterable.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
timber113(796) Disputed
1 point

im sure he can see every simple possibility before it happens. its like an aritficial intelligence that gives you possible outcomes for actions, he only does it with 100 percent accuracy

Side: No (weak creator)
1 point

God can create a rock but you see it would continue to grow and grow because God is all powerful and it wouldn't get heavy on Him.

Side: No (weak creator)
Facadeon(510) Clarified
3 points

That means that he is unable to create a rock he cannot lift.

And that inability to make such a rock would contradict is omnipotency.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
Srom(12201) Disputed
0 points

How would it contradict His omnipotent? God is powerful because He is a infinite person and someone with infinite power and the rock would keep growing because it wouldn't get heavy so it doesn't contradict his omnipotent's

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

So he cannot? ,

Than you

Side: Yes (weak lifter)

oh please srom XD God doesnt even have to try to lift rock he doesnt even need to use his hands XD

Side: No (weak creator)
1 point

I know God could easily point at a rock and it would continue to grow. XD

Side: No (weak creator)
Cuaroc(8826) Clarified
1 point

so he cannot create a rock that he cannot lift?

Side: Yes (weak lifter)

God cannot create a rock so heavy that cannot lift it. It is not because he is a weak creator but he creates things by basing it through the object`s true nature. For an example, God cannot create a 4 sided triangle since that already violates the nature of the triangle as a whole. In this debate`s case, God is omnipotent and cannot destroy the nature of God and his omnipotence by creating something he cannot lift. It is simple since God acts upon the nature of the object.

Side: No (weak creator)
1 point

God, do you even lift?

Side: No (weak creator)
1 point

Nope. But this question isn't the stumper 15-year-olds tend to think it is; it's just equivocation. Omnipotence is the ability to do all things that are possible. Saying Jesus isn't God because he couldn't microwave a burrito so hot that even he couldn't eat it is like saying science isn't useful because it can't determine whether there is or isn't a God. It's moving the goal posts. Omnipotence would be incoherent as an idea if it included the ability to commit logical contradictions.

Side: No (weak creator)
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

In other words omnipotence is just another bronze age bullshit.

Side: Yes (weak lifter)
Assface(406) Disputed
1 point

Sure, if you classify the whole of philosophy "broze-age bullshit." But it's also what informs your ill-conceived and fallacious objections against classical theology, so I'd be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Side: No (weak creator)