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Anyone can be pro-life. It doesn't matter what label you choose (or have been given). And what does it actually mean to be a liberal anyway? To support welfare? To be anti-war? To be pro-choice? To believe in liberty and equality for all?
Shukriyah. I agree. Prolifers can be liberal, centrist, conservative, minarchist, and so on. I don't know if anarchists can be prolife though. What do you thinl?
Good point. Anarchists don't believe in authority at all, so I can't imagine one being pro-life. If anything, they'd be more likely to support "abortion" of any human, including the ones that were born years ago. :-)
Not at all, but that was how the people in their district wanted to be represented and the reason why they are in office. I mean, conservatism and liberalism are very broad terms. You can be conservative on economics but be liberal on social issues, and I think that might be the opposite for these prolifers. So in a sense, they are probably liberal in the major aspects of the democratic agenda.
Fair enough. Liberalism has always been more of an ideological orientation rather than politically specific in my understanding of it, which is why conflation with the Democratic party label always sticks out to me. You obviously grasp the nuance though.
Since liberalism promotes the understanding of the principles of democracy, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property, I would have thought the Liberals would lean towards pro-choice...?
The majority of liberals are pro-choice, but there are some liberals that are pro-life. I guess being classified as a liberal is having a general liberal view on most topics, but not all.
Classical liberalism holds that the basic self-evident rights include the right to life along with liberty and pursuit of happiness. This means that a liberal could easily be pro-life for the same reason as other people. It all depends on when a life is a human or when a human has rights.
Yes but not a classic liberal. I personally believe we don't need further argument and that this is case closed as soon as everyone realizes that to be a liberal you don't need to be the classic liberal.
Liberals vote for Democrats most times so they are NOT PRO LIFE! There is no issue more important than saving innocent life. It is laughable when a person who claims to be pro life votes for Democrats who support even late term abortions on demand.
They are complete phonies.
Now if you find me a Liberal who votes for pro life Republicans and refuses to vote for Democrats, I might listen.
Saying that no true liberal would be prolife is the no true Scotsman fallacy. There is an organization called Democrats For Life. The existance of this group proves that liberals can be prolife. I know all of this because I am a liberal prolifer. I have included a link proving my point. http://democratsforlife.org/
Well, 2 things wrong. You even admit that not all Democrats feel pro choice and the debate only asks if that is possible, so you agree. You don't talk about the Democrats who are pro life. Is it ok for liberals to vote for them and still claim to be pro life?
Now you tell me, if you were truly not a racist, would you belong to a KKK organization? The same goes for a supposedly pro life Democrat. There are certain issues in life that supersede politics. There are issues of humanity and when someone belongs to or supports the Democrat party, it is laughable to claim they are pro life. The Democrat party is radically pro abortion and to deny so is wasting our time.
Thank you for a on topic question.... heart be still! I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you can comprehend the English language. I have said many times that anyone who votes for a pro abortion Democrat or Republican, he is not pro life. There is no other issue in the same ball park with killing innocent life if you are truly pro life.
If you vote for the one in a million Democrat that actually votes against all the Democrat pro abortion legislation, then yes you could call yourself pro life but we are talking about electing Democrat Presidents as well who are always pro abortion. Jimmy Carter was the only Democrat President who called himself pro life but after getting elected he voted with the pro abortion legislation every time he had a chance to slow the Abortion movement.
Do you remember the so called pro life Democrat who was debating whether to vote for Obamacare even though it included Abortions in the healthcare plan?
Well guess what? He voted for Obamacare! Finding a true pro life Democrat who stands by his convictions is one in a million.
"Do you remember the so called pro life Democrat who was debating whether to vote for Obamacare even though it included Abortions in the healthcare plan?"
It is truly great how you have such a hard time admitting the truth here. You have to qualify your statement that it is very rare, then immediately after finally realizing the truth you have to throw in a scenario that may or may not be applicable. Thank you for admitting it for at least a split second.
Do you remember the so called pro life Democrat who was debating whether to vote for Obamacare even though it included Abortions in the healthcare plan?
Here is some information on Bart Stupak (the one in a million so called pro life Democrat)
Stupak expressed a desire to support the 2009 health care reform bill put forth by President Obama,[11] but wanted restrictions on coverage for abortion.[12] Therefore, Stupak and Republican Congressman Joseph R. Pitts submitted an amendment known as the Stupak-Pitts Amendment to prohibit such payments. The Stupak-Pitts Amendment was adopted by the House of Representatives, but a similar pro-life provision was defeated in the Senate version of the legislation (known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act).[13] Stupak announced that he and several other Democratic representatives who supported health reform legislation but opposed abortion would not vote for the final version of the legislation unless the Stupak-Pitts Amendment was included.[14] The ensuing controversy made Stupak "perhaps the single most important rank-and-file House member in passing the bill."[1]
Abortion-rights advocates held a "Stop Stupak" rally on Capitol Hill in December 2009.[15] In the ensuing months, Stupak publicly stated that the pressure and opposition he received in regard to his abortion stance on the health reform legislation had caused him to unplug the phone at his house due to "obscene phone calls and threats" and had made his life a "living hell."[11][16] "My staff is overwhelmed and we're accosted basically wherever we go by people who disagree," Stupak added.[16]
In March 2010, President Obama and Stupak reached an understanding whereby the President promised to sign an Executive Order barring federal funding of abortion through the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act,[17] and Stupak and several of his allies promised to withdraw their opposition to the bill.[18] The Pro-life movement accused Stupak of betraying the pro-life movement,[19][20] and the pro-life Susan B. Anthony List revoked an award it had planned to give to him and instead ran $150,000 worth of radio advertisements against him.[19][21] Stupak was targeted by the Tea Party movement in the wake of his compromise.[22] In April 2010, Stupak announced his intention to retire from Congress,[23] leading conservative groups to point to the political consequences of his compromise as a possible reason for his decision.[21][22] However, Stupak himself attributed his retirement to the exertion of constant travel back and forth from Washington, D.C.[24]
The problem was that Obama merely told Stupak that he would sign an Executive Order barring federal funding of abortion. But in the end Stupak caved in and voted to pass Obamacare even though he knew this was just one more lie from Obama's. There was no executive order from Obama. The executive order king could not find it in his soul to not force all people to pay for abortions through their health plans. What a shock.
Wow, you pro life Republicans are the biggest assholes around aren't you? This is a perfect example of how you don't care about unborn babies. You just want Republicans in office. Stupak actually made an effort to stop funding abortions and instead of embracing him you sent him death threats. You don't send death threats to every Republican. You should, but nope. Republicans have been failing for decades to pass pro life laws. They deserve death threats too. The reason why you don't know about any pro life liberals is because you wouldn't know one if he kicked you in the ass, or wrote a pro life amendment to a bill.
Are you a fool or a liar? Read it again, IT WAS PRO CHOICE PEOPLE WHO SENT HIM DEATH THREATS! He received the threats from Democrats when they thought he was not going to vote for Obamacare and support abortion funding. He finally voted for Obamacare anyways and this is what I was telling you. Pro life Democrats are phony's!
I will wait for you apology for being a knee jerk moron so quick to try and find something wrong with Republicans, but i will not hold my breath.
It's so easy for Conservatives to find the hypocrisy in Democrats. You keep right on trying as I know you will.
"Are you a fool or a liar? Read it again, IT WAS PRO CHOICE PEOPLE WHO SENT HIM DEATH THREATS! He received the threats from Democrats when they thought he was not going to vote for Obamacare and support abortion funding. He finally voted for Obamacare anyways and this is what I was telling you. Pro life Democrats are phony's!
I will wait for you apology for being a knee jerk moron so quick to try and find something wrong with Republicans, but i will not hold my breath.
It's so easy for Conservatives to find the hypocrisy in Democrats. You keep right on trying as I know you will."
I would definitely like to see you address "Pro-life" groups firebombing abortion clinics. There is some pretty obvious hypocrisy in killing people to prove you are pro-life.
That moronic statement requires one response to someone I ignore. FOOL! There is not one pro life group that condones bombing any abortion clinics or killing doctors. For you to use those few people to make some kind of point truly shows how far you are willing to go to try and deny the simple truth of what I say. This is why I ignore your posts. There is NOTHING I could ever say that would get you to admit anything. It's like talking to a wall.
The few people who have bombed clinics are kind of like those Pro abortion fanatics that gave death threats to the so called pro life Democrat Bart Stupak.
"That moronic statement requires one response to someone I ignore. FOOL! There is not one pro life group that condones bombing any abortion clinics or killing doctors."
Tell that to the Army of God, a Christian "pro-life" terrorist group that has fire bombed several abortion clinics.
And if you are going to point to a handful of extremists sending death threats, I can point to a handful of extremists committing acts of terrorism.
"The few people who have bombed clinics are kind of like those Pro abortion fanatics that gave death threats to the so called pro life Democrat Bart Stupak."
Actually, this is my exact point. I do not think that the Army of God represents pro-life individuals in any way, but I also do not think that those who sent death threats to Bart Stupak are representative of pro-choice people. I think that pointing to the actions of extremists doesn't accomplish anything, and that's all I was attempting to prove. So if we are in agreement, then why the insults?
The insult is because of people like you on the Left who never find a reason to attack Pro abortion people. Only Conservatives get your anger. You spew the same garbage that there are pro life Democrats. " Pro life in words... NOT ACTIONS! My entire point had nothing to do with fringe elements of either side, it was disproving your lie of true pro life people on the Left who do not support abortion by electing pro abortion Politicians.
I've heard these types of lies forever and it brings out the insults.
Maybe there actually is one or two Democrats who stand by their convictions. It's ludicrous to bring them up as some kind of excuse to say Democrats are also pro life. There were a couple KKK Democrats back a few decades ago. I guess with your logic Democrats were also KKK members. The Democrat party is diabolically pro abortion on demand.
When I debate someone who will admit the simple truth, then I show respect.
I will give you at least one attaboy for FINALLY admitting the Liberal media puts out Gay propaganda much more disproportionately, and seldom give mention to other groups of people. They have an agenda to lift up issues that go contrary to the Christian faith. The Liberal media can always find stories painting Christians in a bad light and never seem to find stories of all the wonderful things the Church does for the needy. If all you watched was Hollywood movies or sitcoms, you would think most Christians are evil judgmental hatemongers. There is not a sitcom out there not pushing the Gay agenda and making fun of Christians.
"The insult is because of people like you on the Left who never find a reason to attack Pro abortion people. Only Conservatives get your anger. "
That is factually untrue. Why do you lie?
" You spew the same garbage that there are pro life Democrats."
There are.
"There were a couple KKK Democrats back a few decades ago. I guess with your logic Democrats were also KKK members. The Democrat party is diabolically pro abortion on demand."
Yes, there were KKK Democrats, as you have demonstrated.
"When I debate someone who will admit the simple truth, then I show respect."
No, you only show respect if they agree with you. If they don't, you insult them.
"I will give you at least one attaboy for FINALLY admitting the Liberal media puts out Gay propaganda much more disproportionately,"
I never once denied it, so why are you saying finally? And they are not putting our propaganda, they are simply covering LGBT issues and stories disproportionately. That is not propaganda.
"They have an agenda to lift up issues that go contrary to the Christian faith. "
Nope. I know you like your persecution complex, but this has nothing to do with you, or your religion, at all.
"The Liberal media can always find stories painting Christians in a bad light and never seem to find stories of all the wonderful things the Church does for the needy. "
Again, most liberals (and thus by extension most people in the liberal media) are Christian. They disagree with you on many issues, but they believe in the divinity of Christ, and are therefore Christian.
" If all you watched was Hollywood movies or sitcoms, you would think most Christians are evil judgmental hatemongers. There is not a sitcom out there not pushing the Gay agenda and making fun of Christians."
Are you referencing a study that proves this, or just "feeling persecuted"?
"Pro life in words... NOT ACTIONS! My entire point had nothing to do with fringe elements of either side, it was disproving your lie of true pro life people on the Left who do not support abortion by electing pro abortion Politicians.
I've heard these types of lies forever and it brings out the insults."
You'll notice that others do not insult you despite your lies, so why don't you give them the same respect?
"Maybe there actually is one or two Democrats who stand by their convictions. It's ludicrous to bring them up as some kind of excuse to say Democrats are also pro life."
That means that there are, as a matter of fact, pro-life Democrats.
Yes and there are probably kkk Democrats, your point? We are talking about the party and what they support, not what a couple individuals believe.
This is why I ignore so much of your posts. You simply deny the truth of what I am saying about an OBVIOUS PRO ABORTION PARTY! To bring up a few so called pro life Democrats people to deny my posts is mind blowing stupid. I've got better things to do.
People insult me all the time. Grow up and quit crying about it. I realize when you have nothing to disprove what I say, you must change the subject to the topic of insults.
"Yes and there are probably kkk Democrats, your point? We are talking about the party and what they support, not what a couple individuals believe."
Then why bring up those death threats?
"This is why I ignore so much of your posts. You simply deny the truth of what I am saying about an OBVIOUS PRO ABORTION PARTY!"
At no point did I claim that the Democratic Party wasn't mostly pro-choice. Of course they are.
"To bring up a few so called pro life Democrats people to deny my posts is mind blowing stupid. I've got better things to do."
You claimed there were no pro-life Democrats. Bringing up that there are, in fact, pro-life Democrats is simply proving you wrong.
"People insult me all the time. Grow up and quit crying about it. I realize when you have nothing to disprove what I say, you must change the subject to the topic of insults."
Except I am not the one that changes the subject, you, time and time and time again. You both insult, AND change the subject, and I simply respond to every aspect of your posts.
The few people who have bombed clinics are kind of like those Pro abortion fanatics that gave death threats to the so called pro life Democrat Bart Stupak
Finally a true statement from you. The problem is that you treat the death threat pro choice people as if they were typical pro choice people, but the pro life people who fire bomb clinics aren't considered part of the pro life movement. Why can't you be consistent?
The entire argument was about phony so called Pro life Democrats who have no conviction to what they claim. I could care less about the huge outcry from many pro abortion fanatics. You are the one who could not comprehend the English language and attacked Republicans for what you thought was a TERRIBLE thing until you found out it was Pro abortion loonies. Then it was ok because you did not condemn them.
I've proved my point now start telling me who these so called Pro life Democrats are that stand by their convictions. What true Pro life politician would ever be a member of a Democrat party that keeps late term abortions on demand legal.
If you are going to spew some garbage about how Democrats care for the poor while killing the most innocent, then SPARE ME!
"If you are going to spew some garbage about how Democrats care for the poor while killing the most innocent, then SPARE ME!"
Kind of like how Republicans are pro-life, yet support the death penalty, despite the fact that innocent people have been put to death. But you have already said you do not care about those people. Hypocrisy is on both sides.
I thought you were a little smarter than that. Mistakenly executing an innocent man to death is rare and never purposely done. Killing Babies is a purposeful act, NO RARE MISTAKE! To compare the two is ludicrous.
Under your logic, people mistakenly put in jail for other crimes means we should just end prison for convicts because some might be innocent.
Millions of Babies are purposely aborted and you want to say it is hypocritical to support the death penalty for murderers? There will always be mistakes made and people die. Doctors make mistakes and kill people during surgery. Lets stop surgery so it can't happen. People like you must be hypocrites not to care about those patients who mistakenly die. These kinds of ludicrous arguments are why we have no respect for Liberals when they try to excuse abortions. Your argument has NOTHING to do with the subject of Democrats purposely supporting the late term abortions with their vote.
"I thought you were a little smarter than that. Mistakenly executing an innocent man to death is rare and never purposely done. Killing Babies is a purposeful act, NO RARE MISTAKE! To compare the two is ludicrous."
Completely and utterly irrelevant. If you were actually pro-life, you would be trying to protect all innocent life. Clearly, you aren't.
"Under your logic, people mistakenly put in jail for other crimes means we should just end prison for convicts because some might be innocent."
You clearly do not understand what "my logic" is. If someone is put to death, they are incapable of having their wrongful conviction overturned. If someone is simply in jail or prison, they still have the ability to have a wrongful conviction overturned.
I know it is difficult, but try to respond to what I actually say, because you are VERY bad at figuring out what logic I employ.
"'Millions of Babies are purposely aborted and you want to say it is hypocritical to support the death penalty for murderers"
Yes, it is. You are against one because of killing innocents, but you support the other in spite of it killing innocents. That is, indeed, hypocrisy.
" There will always be mistakes made and people die."
Non-sequitor. People will always die in accidents, that does not mean we should have the government executing innocent individuals.
"Doctors make mistakes and kill people during surgery. "
Are they putting people to death? No? Then the comparison does not make sense.
"People like you must be hypocrites not to care about those patients who mistakenly die."
I do care, which is why I believe in malpractice lawsuits. I love how you call me a hypocrite without knowing my opinion on the matter. It indicates a lack of self-assuredness in your own arguments.
"These kinds of ludicrous arguments are why we have no respect for Liberals"
You mean the arguments that you made up? You sure love your little straw men.
"when they try to excuse abortions."
I never tried to excuse abortions.
"Your argument has NOTHING to do with the subject of Democrats purposely supporting the late term abortions with their vote."
And Republicans purposely do not actively try to outlaw it. It is such a valuable political tool for them, that they continue to posture and play politics with it, and you fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
The GOP DOES try to stop ate term abortions on demnd. Tyey are the [arty of compassion! Abortion is no longer an issue that helps pro life politicians. It actually hurts them and is why the Democrats always use it as a political tool to scare people that the GOP would stop all abortions. Democrats are the party that flip flops on the lives of Babies depending on the polls. They have no core values. They live and breathe politics.
Your analogy of the death penalty and abortion is pure hogwash. Time to ignore once again. To compare purposeful killing and mistakes is laughable.
"The GOP DOES try to stop ate term abortions on demnd."
Then why is it that every bill they propose regarding late term abortion "on demand" contains poison pill amendments that they KNOW will prevent it from being passed? Why not propose a clean bill?
And no, the Republican Party is not the party of compassion. I wouldn't say the Democrats are either, however.
"Abortion is no longer an issue that helps pro life politicians."
Oh it CERTAINLY does on the right. It is a great mobilizing issue on the right, it gets the conservative voters out in droves.
" Democrats are the party that flip flops on the lives of Babies depending on the polls. They have no core values. They live and breathe politics."
That statement would have more legitimacy if the Republicans weren't playing such blatant political games with this topic.
" Your analogy of the death penalty and abortion is pure hogwash. Time to ignore once again. To compare purposeful killing and mistakes is laughable."
In other words, you have no excuse for your double standard, and thus will "ignore me". Intentionally allowing a process that has lead to the deaths of innocents is no "accident", even if the deaths themselves are. You are accepting that innocent people will die, and still support the unnecessary process. That makes you a hypocrite.
You are trying to compare fringe elements to the argument. The Democrat party is the party of Abortion on demand. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! They run their Democrat platform on it! Quit wasting my time on the obvious.
Wow, you actually got something correct. Sorry. But, you still attacked him like assholes.
" The Pro-life movement accused Stupak of betraying the pro-life movement,[19][20] and the pro-life Susan B. Anthony List revoked an award it had planned to give to him and instead ran $150,000 worth of radio advertisements against him.[19][21]Stupak was targeted by the Tea Party movement in the wake of his compromise."
Every Republican should be run out of town with that thinking.
It must have been hard to say sorry but as usual a disclaimer. Pro abortion people gave him death threats and you did not condemn them once. The Republicans revoked an award and you called them #@&%$#.
You are proving to be the golden goose Liberal with all the double standards. You prove my points very well.
That makes me just like you. I am glad you finally admit to being a liberal with double standards.
It wasn't a double standard. I was alluding to the Republicans trying to replace him in my first post. The last post just removed the death threats part.
