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51
52
Yes, they are similar. No, there are differences.
Debate Score:103
Arguments:52
Total Votes:110
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 Yes, they are similar. (28)
 
 No, there are differences. (24)

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MKIced(2483) pic



Can the black rights movement be compared to gays?

So my mom was watching Tyra Banks so she could fall asleep.  On it, the slogan stated that "Gay is the new black."  Interesting... How come?  Some people argue that gays are going through a similar plight today that the black community of America went through in the 1960's.  Do you think the two can compare?

Yes, they are similar.

Side Score: 51
VS.

No, there are differences.

Side Score: 52

The only similarity between them is there are two completely different sets of people trying to gain and maintain their human rights.

Side: Yes, they are similar.
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

kuk,

with all due respect,

I feel it is unfair for us to even attempt to compare the one evil to the other.

I think that it is important to remember slavery in its full, unconsiousable injustice - and the proceding years of racism, murder, and complete disregard for the basic rights this nation was founded on - in order that it does not happen again, and that we maintain some sense of humility in our collective judgement of ourselves and other nations.

it's important when talking of any inequality, including the inequality of gays, that we bring up past mistakes,

that we say we've been here before and found it to be a mistake and that we should not do it again.

but, when you say to one "this is what we did to black people" a person can look around,

and they will not see lynchings, families sold, children separated from sibling and parents,

and it is easy for them, unfortunately many of them, to not realize the extent of our hypocricy, injustice, and evil at that time in our history.

This is unfair.

Side: No, there are differences.
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
1 point

True.

But there are some things that were done to black people, that you can't do to gay people.

Homosexuals don't have a 'traditional' family to break up. You wouldn't sell a known homosexual during that time in history, you would just kill them. Lynch, shoot, beat... whatever got the job done.

But Homosexuals have endured every hardship that could be placed on them:

They were sent to concentration camps with the Jews.

They've been kept out of politics, schools, churches, and other institutions even to this day.

They've been discriminated against in the work place.

They are shamed by their family's. They've been ostracized by their mother's, and beaten to death by their father's.

They are being segregated.

And they are still the victims of crimes of hate and ignorance.

If you think the roads to equality for African Americans and homosexuals have been different, than you are right. But they share every similarity possible.

Side: The are mostly similar

"The main similarity between them is they are two overlapping minority groups trying to gain and maintain their human rights."

Fixed.

(there are gay black people ;P )

Side: Yes, they are similar.
2 points

The LGBT community is going through pretty much the exact same situation as African Americans.

They are a minority, being suppressed by a majority, based on a "traditional" school of thought that lets one group think they are more deserving than another. It's discrimination.

Gays were discriminated against just as badly as blacks were, once upon a time, not too long ago. Both had to fight for their rights to not be beaten or killed for simply being themselves (hate crimes). Both had to fight for the rights to equal employment or other rights (equal opportunity). And now gay marriage is taking the place of interracial marriage.

Even the thought of having a different institution, with all the same laws and principals as marriage, but calling it something else is "separate but equal" thinking. And as we all know, separate is not equal.

The difference is, that you can determine a black person just by looking at them. In some cases an LGBT person can hide their sexuality and skate through life unharmed and unhappy. But if you're an out LGBT person... it's exactly the same.

Side: The are mostly similar

I agree wholly with Kukla, but they do have their differences. I believe that the Blacks movement was a little more violent, had a few more people hurt in jail or dead, and was a bit more serious. Now I'm sure all of you now know that I am (technically) a bisexual man. I am very revved up about the entire gay rights thing, and am very happy to say that in 90 days same-sex marriage will be legal in my beautiful state of Maine! But, I don't think that these two movements can be compared without a total outright winner.

Side: Yes, they are similar.

The black rights movement and the gay rights movement are very similar. Both have involved immense violence, hatred, and bigotry, leading to uncertain legislation and heated debates such as this one. Both fought/are fighting for the rights of people who are predisposed with traits that they cannot choose.

Side: Yes, they are similar.
1 point

There is no point in attempting to compare every aspect of the Black experience in America with the GLBT experience. They are different. But in this analysis -- the right to marry whoever one chooses, should they agree -- the two are identical. A Majority of The Powerful have forbidden by law (based solely on their religious convictions) that there are "classes" of Americans who do not have the same access to Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness as do others -- namely, The Powerful Majority. The laws against "miscegenation" are all dinosaurs now, and black/white couples are becoming common and well-accepted in most places. But I am sure that there are places in this country where I could still find a majority willing to re-adopt them. THE FACT THAT A MAJORITY SUPPORTS NON-CONSTITUTIONAL LEGISLATION DOES NOT VALIDATE IT. And laws prohibiting gay marriage are -- like the miscegenation laws -- clear, de facto contradictions to the First Amendment. It has been pointed out in this dialog that the anti-gay-marriage faction uses arguments that are identical to those of their anti-mixed-race-marriage predecessors -- all of which are generated and supported by a specific religious point of view, and nothing else. Nothing. It is far past time for the Fundamentalists to get busy, read their Bibles, and start rendering to Caesar what's Caesar's. In this case, the it's the decision as to whether we all enjoy equal rights and protection under the law, or just those of us in the Powerful Majority.

Side: Yes, they are similar.

Gay Rights is a fight for Equal Rights, so, the two can be compared.

Side: Yes, they are similar.
4 points

Not exactly. for one thing, blacks weren't allowed to enter certain stores and couldn't even go to the same public schools.

and they were hosed down just for sitting in front of a store. many were lynched for looking at a white woman. and the shit would get beat out of them.

gays, yes, they have some things that i believe are worth fighting for, but it's nothing compared to what blacks went through.

Side: No, there are differences.
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
4 points

Gays are still treated this way in some places. A homophobic person wouldn't bat an eyelash at throwing a gay person out of their store.

Many homophobic parents try to get their children's gay teachers fired for no other reason than their sexuality. And children continue to beat other children in their schools that they think might be gay.

There are very backwards people out there, who think being gay is a crime worth punishing by death.

If you're not aware of that, please read up on hate crime cases towards the LGBT community and it's members. Recently there has been a wave of hate crimes against LGBT people, which is a reaction to all of the new rights being granted to them.

Some things may not be illegal for gays to do, like rent an apartment, get a job, or show affection in public. But it's hard, and it's dangerous.

Side: The are mostly similar
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
2 points

but the blacks didn't even have the government on their side IN THEIR TIMES. the government was mainly against them.

unlike now, where gays are protected under hate crime laws. blacks weren't protected under shit. it's NOTHING compared to what blacks went through.

Side: No, there are differences.
itsnotright(24) Disputed
2 points

Fisrt off. There are no hate crimes. A crime is a crime is a crime. There are laws on the books that provide punishment for acts of malice towards another person. Hell, any type of action that infringes upon the basic human rights of any individual. That is called the Law of the Land. The only difference is that some tree hugging hippie, liberal, bureaucrat knew they could make some money off of the exploitation of a certain individual. And thus has gotten WAY out of hand. If I walk up to someone and break their neck, they are just as dead. The only difference is that they might have been gay. Or black. Either one. It is still murder. Their Ethnicity or choice of sexuality is of no consequence. Except for someone with an agenda. And as I stated earlier, exploits it for their own monetary gain.

Side: No, there are differences.
Mahollinder(893) Disputed
3 points

The gay issue is more in tune with the anti-miscegenation laws of the late 19th and middle-to-late 20th century. That is, it interracial marriages - normally pointed towards black and whites - were illegal (and it's only been in the last two decades that some states officially repealed their anti-miscegeny laws). If you look at many of the arguments made against interracial marriage during the period of anti-miscegeny, you'll notice a fairly common trend; interracial marriage would ruin the sanctity of marriage, the act was unnatural and ungodly, bestiality and pedophilia may follow, "marriage" would be redefined and rendered meaningless etc. etc.

It wasn't until the Loving vs Virginia case where the issue was looked at, and anti-miscegenation laws began to be removed from legal books for most states. So, in the context of marriage, it can most certainly be compared to parts of the civil rights movement.

Side: Yes, they are similar.
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
3 points

hardly. for one thing, gays are not murdered for wanting to marry a white woman. and, gays have access to civil unions and domestic partnerships. not to mention that more and more states are overriding the Democratic choice on marriage in order to enact gay marriage.

also, gay marriage is made up. marriage when it was created was intended for reproduction, so the laws against interracial marriage were purely out of all of the other racist laws that were used against blacks. it has little to nothing to do with the current debate.

Side: No, there are differences.
HGrey87(750) Disputed
2 points

If gays were a different color, they would have had to endure the same persecutions as blacks. The closet is often a survival tactic.

Not exactly. for one thing, blacks weren't allowed to enter certain stores and couldn't even go to the same public schools.

If one is openly gay, he can expect to be harassed and denied service every once in a while. This no longer happens to blacks in the US. And while gays are not legally persectured, there are many arbitrary rules that enforce their de facto second-class citizenship-- just like blacks had to endure. The denial of the word "marriage" to gay couples prevents their exercise of thousands of rights, such as hospital spouse visits, and inheritance. The Civil Rights of gays are in many ways far behind those of racial minorities. There's an incredible amount of hate speech tolerated in the public sphere, and it's a terrible double-standard with other minorities.

Many were lynched for looking at a white woman. and the shit would get beat out of them.

Try looking like I do and making eye contact with the wrong guy. Homophobia is a much larger influence today than racism in the US. Being LGBT is one of the easiest ways to be ostracized in America, but the mainstream community seems to think there's nothing wrong.

Sexual orientation is only an iota less genetic than skin color. Homosexuality occurs in every single demographic, and is evident in nature. America's treatment of gays is another disgusting blemish on our national character.

Side: Yes, they are similar.
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
2 points

the thing is, the government (mainly southern) found it perfectly okay for blacks to be EXECUTED for just looking at a white woman.

tell me how gays nowadays are treated anyway like that. please, what could possibly compare to that?

Side: No, there are differences.

A closet homosexual usually does OK.

A flaming queen usually has a hard time.

Blacks can't hide the fact they're black unless they're light skin black.

So..., no, it's not the same. I think that blacks think that gays are riding on their coat tails.

Side: No, there are differences.
HGrey87(750) Disputed
2 points

Is publicly denying a major aspect of your personality "doing OK?" If you're not allowed to be who you are, you're being oppressed.

Side: Yes, they are similar.

I did not say that they were NOT being oppressed, I said they were doing OK. If I were a Jew in Nazi Germany, and I were being oppressed and forced to hide the fact that I am a Jew, as long as I was successful at hiding the fact that I am a Jew and managed to thus stay alive, I would say, "Yeah, I'm doing OK. Not great but at least I'm not dead."

In other words, you could be oppressed but still manage to do OK.

Side: Yes, they are similar.
3 points

lmao,

black people were slaves. they were lynched for being black. they were sold like property.

then they were segragated on a mass scale... like all of them, and were victims of way way way more hate crimes, while the justice system in large part turned a blind eye.

the hate crimes against gays has never been a huge number comparitively, the justice system has never excused the perpetrators of gay hate crimes out of prejudice, gay people are not segragated,

for the gay movement to compare their plight to that of the black rights movement weekens their own arguement, and does not pay proper respect to what black people went through in this country.

that said though, gay people are treated unfairly. they should be allowed to marry, and allowed in the military, which they are now.

you cannot compare that though to slavery or segregation, and expect people to take you seriously

Side: No, there are differences.
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
2 points

Because of the obvious differences: the fact that gay people CAN hide their orientation if they try and also that homosexuality is not hereditary in any predictable sense, enslaving every gay person would be difficult.

Also, gays were not fighting for rights when slavery was legal. Back in the early days of this country, religion was far less important to the average person than it has become today.

There is no way that two different groups of oppressed peoples are going to have the same exact experiences. However, they are supremely similar.

Gays are not legally segregated, but in many areas they are socially segregated. And yes, it's illegal, but when has legality ever stopped hate crimes before?

Also, African Americans outnumbers gays. So, with more to hate, there will be greater number of incidents.

Black people were lynched, gays are STILL being beaten to death.

And gay people are allowed in the military, yes. However, they cannot be openly gay. They cannot get benefits for their partners like heterosexuals can. They can't be open and honest with themselves, or the people they sit in ditches with for days on end. The people who's lives they save. They have to segregate themselves, just to serve the country.

Side: The are mostly similar
3 points

Blacks are blacks. It is not their choice. Homosexuality is the choice of the individual.

They are not the same.

Side: No, there are differences.

Riding on their coattails? Where do you get such tripe from? The gay movement is about as far removed from the black movement as the women's movement is to it. It's ludicrous to think that anything like that were true. Are you gay Joe? If so, what is it that you know that keeps you writing this stuff? Also, if so, where do you get your information from. You think...How so, Bud?

Side: No, there are differences.
2 points

Well, it's obvious that blacks went through more, but another problem is people who are against gay marriage being compared to racists.

That is wrong on so many levels. Even If you disagree with these people you have to admit that it's not the same as being racist.

Side: No, there are differences.
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
3 points

How is it not the same as being racist?

Please explain your reasoning, after stating that "you have to agree."

Side: Yes, they are similar.
MKIced(2483) Disputed
2 points

I think it isn't racist because racism would be hatred against a race (or group of people in this case) just because they are who they are. It isn't racist to be against gay marriage. That'd be like calling somebody racist for being against abortion. Or sexist, rather.

Side: No, there are differences.
2 points

no they have no similarities...........both the movements support different aspects and as such shouldn't be brought together

Side: No, there are differences.
2 points

That would be bad to see an all gays college. eww..... haha.

Side: No, there are differences.
2 points

Its just not the same. Moreover, it is a huge insult to blacks to compare their struggle with gays.

Firstly, the differences can't even be disputed. Take what happened to Matthew Shepard and multiply it a thousand times, then you will have what happened to blacks in this country. Being pistol whipped is one thing. Having your testicles cut off accompanied by a lynching is another. And this was widespread, not one instance. And then there's that whole "slavery" thing.

Second, lets remember that when your born black, that's it. Your skin color is black and you will therefore be labeled an African American for the rest of your natural life, whether you like it or not, whether you hate the stereotypes that come along with it (which you had nothing to do with) or not.

On the other hand, it is still highly debated whether or not homosexuality is natural. There is no consensus that says there is a definite gay gene that will guarantee one's homosexuality. At BEST, there is a mix of environmental issues (i.e, single feminist mother that subliminally teachers her son to be feminine, molestation, etc) and genetics.

So there's one MAJOR difference right there that cannot be ignored. When your born with a skin color, that's that. You being gay is not as concrete as you being born black. It never has or will be.

You simply cannot equate a behavior with a race. Its logically invalid.

Side: No, there are differences.
2 points

You can't choose to be black or not. Unless of course you were Michael Jackson. Gay is a choice. A lifestyle. You are not born gay.

Side: No, there are differences.
2 points

NO. Black people were oppressed and made second class citizens. They had some rights but not many. They couldn't get good jobs or even vote in some cases. They were denied there rights as citizens. Gays are not oppressed. My band director is gay and he has a really good job. If he were black and living in the 60's in Texas I doubt he would have been able to be a high school band director no matter how awesome he is at being a band director. The gay movement and the civil rights movement are totally different. The gay movement focuses on a pleasure while the civil rights movement was about giving everyone the same rights in America as it should be.

Side: No, there are differences.
Jace(4706) Disputed
2 points

An openly gay person would not have been employed in any capacity with any school in the 60s in Texas. That you believe the contrary makes it entirely evident that you know next to nothing about the subject you have chosen to make your assertions upon.

Until the gay rights movement in the late 1960s and 1970s homosexuality was criminalized and pathologized, and being homosexual exposed one to being arrested, imprisoned, fined, beaten, institutionalized, subjected to "treatment" now widely considered unethical and harmful, fired, and even killed. The government would even monitor your mail and the FBI kept files on all suspected homosexual persons and organizations with which they affiliated. It is important to note that these were all consequences not for actually having intercourse, but simply for identifying as homosexual or even just for being perceived as being homosexual. In some states, these repercussions persisted considerably after the 1970s.

Side: Yes, they are similar.