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Capitalism Vs Communism
There comes a time in every mans life when he must choose between Capitalism and Communism. It is time to compare the two systems in the most pragmatic and objective way possible...by having random losers argue about it on an internet forum.
People largely only work hard and achieve great things because hard work and achievement are incentivized. Among other factors (such as taking away farmland from the most productive farmers), this lack of positive incentive caused death by starvation for tens of millions in communist societies such as Maoist China and Stalinist Russia. There's an old Russian joke: "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work".
People largely only work hard and achieve great things because hard work and achievement are incentivized.
But they are incentivised with a demonstrable con. You left that part out. You left out that capitalism is a textbook pyramid system. The profit from an employee's "hard work" is claimed by the next person up in the pyramid, and the employee is given a small percentage back in the form of wages. They are told that if they keep putting in "hard work" (that is, if they keep letting other people rip them off) they can climb the pyramid.
This is exactly why I hate the right wing so much. They refuse to accept the reality of the situation and spend all their time trying to convince stupid people that capitalism is in fact really good. That capitalism is in fact doing them a favour. That takes a real scumbag.
They refuse to accept the reality of the situation and spend all their time trying to convince stupid people that capitalism is in fact really good.
I was poor. Now I'm not. Many in America have the same story. I know, I know, lazy idiots think working to make something of yourself is uncomprehendable.
Let's play a game. You drop your pants and bend over. Then I'll show you how Communism works.
I hope you weren't planning on being on social media or a debate site, because that doesn't look to be an option in Communist countries...
"The profit from an employee's "hard work" is claimed by the next person up in the pyramid, and the employee is given a small percentage back in the form of wages. They are told that if they keep putting in "hard work" (that is, if they keep letting other people rip them off) they can climb the pyramid."
First of all, if you think it is so easy to run a business then simply work for a couple of years and start your own. Secondly, if you have a better way of earning money than working for an employer then do that instead. Surely there is some service you can provide to the community that has monetary value? If not then perhaps you could learn a skill that permits you to do so. By no means are you forced to work for others.
"This is exactly why I hate the right wing so much."
You do realize that the left wing generally support capitalism too, right? Also I don't know why you keep calling me right wing.
First of all, if you think it is so easy to run a business
Your complete deflection of the point is extremely predictable. Who the hell said that it was "easy" to run a business?
Secondly, if you have a better way of earning money than working for an employer then do that instead
It's pretty funny how fast your "incentive" turns into a forced ultimatum once it is critically challenged by someone who isn't completely stupid. If given the choice most people would work for themselves for the obvious financial reasons stipulated above. But most people don't have that choice, because they need a large amount of capital to open a legal business.
You do realize that the left wing generally support capitalism too, right?
Lol. Are you actually retarded pal? Let me give you a dictionary definition of left wing:-
The radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system.
Does socialism sound like the same thing as capitalism to you? You are so ignorant that conversing with you is outright depressing. The entire left/right political spectrum and everyone in it is a capitalist are they? Lol. God, you are SOOOOOOOOO stupid.
"Your complete deflection of the point is extremely predictable. Who the hell said that it was "easy" to run a business?"
If it's difficult to run a business then those running businesses aren't running a pyramid scheme because they are contributing to the collective economic endeavor that is the business.
"If given the choice most people would work for themselves for the obvious financial reasons stipulated above. But most people don't have that choice, because they need a large amount of capital to open a legal business."
So you cannot learn how to be, for example, a personal trainer or masseur and sell your services to people directly?
"The radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system."
Interestingly I found 58% of democrats have a positive view of socialism and 56% have a positive view of capitalism (Source 1). As such, it isn't inaccurate to say the left wing generally supports capitalism. I was amazed by the high number that have a positive view of socialism though.
"The entire left/right political spectrum and everyone in it is a capitalist are they?"
There's no significant difference between the number of people holding a positive view of capitalism and socialism. As such, if the left wing can be said to support socialism they can also be said to support capitalism.
Money and greed are the only incentives in capitalism which causes inequality between the few very rich, a middle class, and a working class. This inequality was always understood as the nature of the capitalist system but since the powerful rich controlled the machinery of state the laws were made for them to be able to keep their privilege. A large middle class which benefits from the system will want to keep this order because their position is better than the laboring class beneath them. It was Karl Marx who explained this in Das Kapital. Communism seeks to bring about a classless society where all work for the benefit of all, from each according to his ability and to each according to his need. Fundamentally, it is a question of social equality.
There were no oligarchs in control of Russia until after the fall of the Soviet Union. Similarly, U.S.-supported dictators in Latin America were kept in power by claiming that they were fighting communism. Communism made strides to lift the working class of Russia out from under exploitation and virtual slavery.
It is small-minded of you to dismiss visionaries such as the Founding Fathers of the United States on the grounds that they wrote in the 18th century and could know nothing of the modern world.
This inequality was always understood as the nature of the capitalist system but since the powerful rich controlled the machinery of state the laws were made for them to be able to keep their privilege
And yet Americans not born into "control of the means of production" continue to thrive and get wealthy and even gain "control of the means of production".
You are very much mistaken in your belief that American workers in blighted areas of the country "continue to thrive and get wealthy". Very many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and not making it while the high powered bankers, financiers, and corporate executives are living the high life.
Communism seeks to bring about a classless society where all work for the benefit of all, from each according to his ability and to each according to his need
Okay, so I'll act like I have no abilities, and you'll do all the work...
Thanks for the free crap. Now get back to work, I'm hungry.
As long as there are different jobs to be done, there will be no social equality.
A man in charge of shuffling and moving around papers is not going to face the social stigma of someone who cleans sewers. You just can't wash that smell out.
Besides that, it looks to me like every attempt at communism has led to 1% of the population controlling 99% of the wealth and power anyway. The very thing that the people rebel against to bring it about is what ends up happening.
Why do I not like communism?
What do you think abolish private property means? It means you don't own anything. If you don't own anything, can you even really own yourself?
Only a social snob considers manual labor as a stigma.
Experiments with communism have lacked perfection but no system is without challenges. Yes, there was a broad social equality in East European countries, including the Soviet Union. In contrast, Russia today, after the banning of the Communist Party is a corrupt kleptocracy where all the wealth is in the hands of the few, not unlike corporate capitalist America.
I like communism because it values all citizens equally, requiring from each person their best effort and caring for each according to his need.
People, such as bankers, financiers, and corporate executives are not better than hospital nurses, elementary schoolteachers, or policemen. They should not be allowed to make 500% more than those who do more valuable work.
Snobs have and will always exist. The idea that you can get rid of that through "reeducation" is preposterous.
Communism values all citizens as equally property. How else do you abolish private property? Communism is electing the state as your god. The communists will deny this and say that it is a stateless society. This is a very atheistic idea, and sure enough, communism tends to be outwardly "atheistic". "Atheism" as a position is one that does not believe in the authority of truth, and what better way of expressing this than to say "We want a society that has no mode or condition of being". The idea of a society being "Stateless" is absurd, as is the idea of everyone being truly equal. No, we are all different, which is inherently unequal.
Communism is not a desirable thing. It doesn't even really look good on paper.
My personal whim does not determine what people should and should not get paid or whether or not what they are paid is right. Neither does yours. Also, money does not determine whether or not someone is "better" than anyone else. Perhaps by some standards, but not the type of standards I have. I'm sure you don't think that way either. So lets not judge people based on how much they get paid. That sort of thing is determined by many complex factors, just like everything else that is supposed to be non-existent in utopia commie land.
Communism is death. There is only room for robots in communism. Hey, some people really think a technocracy is a good idea. Those people probably don't know many programmers and engineers. Competence at any field is not an indication of having good character.
"since the powerful rich controlled the machinery of state the laws were made for them to be able to keep their privilege"
This is perhaps the biggest problem with representative democracies and any true capitalist does not want the powerful few to buy elections and rig the system in their favor.
"Communism seeks to bring about a classless society where all work for the benefit of all, from each according to his ability and to each according to his need."
Yet there is no incentive to work under this system, unless you imprison people in gulags if they refuse to work, as they did under Stalin. You haven't addressed the only point I made, that if work isn't incentivized then people won't work.
You are mistaken, Hospital nurses, schoolteachers, policemen, and other workers do not work for money and would do the job for nothing if they could afford to do so. Most people want society to value their work work such as happens in a communist country. Children can be brought up with a sense of social justice, ready to make their commitment to an equal society.
"You are mistaken, Hospital nurses, schoolteachers, policemen, and other workers do not work for money and would do the job for nothing if they could afford to do so."
First of all, your mention of individual rewarding professions makes me think you don't believe this applies to, say, construction workers, cleaners or waste collectors. Secondly, I am sure that plenty of people even in the professions you named are working because they are paid to and would not work for free. Also many of them would not work as many hours or days a week. Further, this completely ignores the Pareto principle in regards to work: 20% of people do 80% of the work (Source 1). Does it make sense that those that work their ass off are rewarded equally to those that spend much of their work time on games and social media? Does communism incentivize working one's ass off or spending time on games and social media? Standards of work will drop because there is no desire to seek promotion and no fear of being made redundant. Also, people will not want to work hard simply to support free-riders; the very existence of these free-riders will demotivate the industrious and reduce productivity.
You have the principles of Communism and Capitalism literally upside down. Under Communism, you get paid the product of your labour. Under Capitalism you get paid a small percentage of the product of your labour. Under Communism, when you work you profit. Under Capitalism, when you work other people profit.
