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Catholicism, is it Christian?
I've been a Christian for a solid amount of time, through my studies and classes I have found that Catholicism is not considered Christian based off their practices, I want to hear from others
Hmm.. it's part of it, but then, it is different. In my country, most of us are Roman Catholics, and there are also Christian others that are different from our religion. Catholics only conduct their mass with the choir and the not so active singing of the responses, whereas, when I enter a Christian church, they are more lively in their responses. They also have different way of responding, like the dance in churches. Mostly, as I have learned, Catholicism is not the same as Christianity, but then it still belongs to one religion who believe in the supreme being, God. So most people mix the two together.
In my catholic church, we don't rely as much on the choir as the sole source for music as you mentioned. In fact we only just started a choir group this year, and my church as been around since the 1830's. Everybody joins in the singing.
But there are other practices you do that is not commanded or perform certain things the wrong way, I have catholic friends and I ask them about certain things and where n the bible does it say to do the stuff, they can't answer that because its not there
Can you show me where in the Bible it says you are not allowed to expand upon the way you best comune with god?
Religions are just attempts to get at god; Catholicism is no different. If they find they are at their most religious when there's funny hats and symbolic cannibalism going on, who's to say that's wrong or that it makes them not Christian.
For example, if you find you do your best praying when you do cartwheels simultaneously, does doing cartwheels while praying make you not Christian because doing cartwheels while praying isn't specifically mentioned in the Bible?
I would agree with that. Not only is it not Christian by its practices, it is not by its belief system, either. It, like its Protestant counterparts, do practice real Bible teaching, nor do they teach it.
One small example is the ability to trace their customs such as celebrating Christmas (Saturnalia), and Easter (Astarte worship) back into paganism; Is doing such a thing, adapting pagan teachings and thereafter dedicating them to God, appreciated by God and Christ according to the Bible?
Interestingly, the Bible does give a strong example on this in Exodus 32, where the Israelites tore off their gold jewelry and gave it to be made into a "golden calf" in that the cals is "Jehovah, who led you out of Egypt." How convoluted!
In that chapter, God tells Moses to go down from the mountain, that the people have polluted themselves. The sad part of that is that they already knew better than to do things like that, and many lost their lives because of it.
So the lesson, then, is to examine our beliefs fully and make an individual assessment on a religion you are thining about joining. Make sure that what it believes and practices is truly scriptural.
Yes Catholicism believes in the same God and that Jesus was the son of God, but Catholics are not Christian for they perform wrong forms of worship, and many practices not commanded, and teach false teachings, all of these things are not Christian, Catholicism was not the first church, the first church is mentioned in the New Testament, and it was not Catholicism, Catholicism is its own religion, it is not Christian
I am not a Catholic. However, its my understanding that a "Christian" is one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God, and that he died and resurrected. With that being said, yes Catholics do believe that. They also believe in the trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Nontheless Catholics differ greatly from Protestant Christians. I think that is where the confusion lies. Both Catholics and Protestant are Christians, for they believe in Christ. But they differ greatly on other things. For example a Protestant Christian doesn't pray to Mary, confess their sins to a priest, or allow any images of Jesus. Catholics on the other hand do. Protestants are instructed to follow the Bible. While Catholics mainly obeys the doctrine of the Church. Those are just a few examples, the list can go on and on. However one thing that unite both Catholics and Protestant alike is the belief in one eternal and loving God.
So, they are Christian for they both believe in the same supreme being? I can understand that, but the bible does talk about what not to do when it comes to worship, however Catholics are known to forms of worship not commanded but created within the church by man. That does not follow Christian belief in the form of following the bible, I'm asking, is Catholicism more of its own religion then a denomination under Christianity?
Catholics are more less founders of Christianity, others base their beliefs on them or against them but Catholics are the point of origin any other church is technically a cult devoted from Catholics.
Just wanted to point out that their predecessors were a sect in the jewish faith that was persecuted by various govermental powers, so i would not call those original Christians violent.
Before them there wire only psychotic and violent cults similar to present Taliban stoning or skinning down people who disagreed with them. Burning all books they could find. They gave the word Religious Cleansing very new meaning. this was very similar for 1700 hundred years.
Well see it depends how you ask the question. First of all my point was that Catholics do fall under the category of Christianity. Christianity is mainly divided into two groups. Catholics and Protestants. Under Protestant is where you will find a lot of denominations, such as Baptist, Pentecostals, Evangelicals and so on. If you mean are Catholics another denomination then the answer is no. As you correctfully pointed out, many of the practices that Catholics do are no where to be found in the Bible. That is why we as Protestant Christians reject the teachings of the Catholic church. Are they another religion? Given the fact that they are really far off on the views on us Protestant Christian, I would say yes. However keep in mind not all Catholics are the same. There are those who are charismatic catholics, who are very similar to us Protestant Christian.
There are no "denominations under Christianity," because Christianity is Christianity, and we are told not to "go beyond what is written."
There is only one Christianity, one denomination which teaches the Bible and has God's approval through Jesus Christ. All others are "having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power, and from these turn away."--2 Timothy 3:1-5
There are alot of different perspectives of what the christian belief is. The only thing that is agreed on by everyone is the belief in one God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.
We can agree both believe in the same thing, however, Catholicism practices forms of worship not commanded, that's not Christian, for the Christian belief follows the bible and does not create its own forms of worship
In the past Catholism was the universal form of Christianity. All other denominations like Anglicanism and Pentecostal have roots in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was the first form of Christian Church and all ideology concerning Christianity was maintained and preached by Catholic priest. During the Reformation, other churches broke away from the Catholic Church because of difference of beliefs but the point is that it all started with the Catholic Church therefore the notion that Catholism isn't within the parameters of Christianity is just absurd.
Well, the Catholic Church may be seen as the first church but it wasn't, the Catholic Church performs many rituals and other acts of worship that is not commanded, that's vain worship, they also perform other forms of worship not in the way that it should be performed
Well then you have to ask yourself what your criteria for being "a Christian" is. I've noticed a lot of religious people tend to think this has something to do with how many points and aspects of that religion you adhere to. Like you said: they're not worshiping the way it says in the Bible, so therefore they are not Christians. That's one way to determine who is a Christian.
The primary flaw with this, so far as I can see, is that the Bible and Christianity both expect and plan for you to fall short of their standards. If being a Christian means following every commandment in the Bible to the letter, nobody is a Christian because the Bible sets the standard at perfection. It doesn't expect us to make this standard, but it's there nonetheless. The Bible tells you (in more words and more eloquently put) not to stare at your neighbors wife's ass. So if you are a Christian and you check out another mans wife's butt, does this make you not a Christian because you're not adhering to every little thing in the Bible? Of course not. You're still a Christian.
So I think a better way to determine denomination is to back up and look at the bigger picture, and the gist of the religion. In this case, Christians and Catholics both believe in the same god entity, they believe this entity sent a son named Jesus to participate in a human sacrifice that saved us all from the threat of eternal damnation. They read the exact same scripture with the exact same mythology and they share a symbol. How they go about interpreting and practicing this stuff differes slightly, yes, but the overall and general point of the religion is the same in both, so I would say they are both Christian denominations.
What you are forgetting is that we are not perfect but that's why we try to not perform sins and if we do we ask for forgiveness, Christian follows beliefs put of the bible, mostly from the new law, which can be found in the New Testament, the Catholic Church however created its own rituals and forms of worship, which the bible says not to do, and not following what the bible says and thinking its ok is not Christian like, Catholicism isn't Christian, it's Christian based off of man's definition
What you are forgetting is that we are not perfect but that's why we try to not perform sins
Did I not just say that? Was this not actually central to my argument? How am I "forgetting" this?
Christian follows beliefs put of the bible, mostly from the new law
No they don't. Not if they want to stay out of prison. If your child cursed at you, would you stone him to death? Do you practice slavery? (OT and NT, there)
the Catholic Church however created its own rituals and forms of worship, which the bible says not to do,
Christians have done this, too, in excess.
But even if they hadn't, so what? I can think of numerous things that modern Christians don't practice that are in the Bible; I can think of lots of things they do practice that aren't in the Bible.
I assume you don't consider anyone who got a Christmas tree this season to not be a Christian on those grounds. The Bible doesn't mention Christmas trees.
You wouldn't stone your newlywed wife to death and leave her corpse on her fathers doorstep if you found out she wasn't a virgin on your wedding night. Not stoning your wife to death doesn't make you not a Christian. Yet this is explicitly ordered by the Bible.
So not only have Christians modified their religion as surely as Catholics have, but they don't follow the Bible as rigorously as you'd need them to follow it for your point to be valid. If Christianity remained completely unchanged in the past 2000 years and if all Christians followed (or tried to follow) every single part of the Bible to the letter then you might have a point, but neither of those things are true, so...
and not following what the bible says and thinking its ok is not Christian like
Out of curiosity, what would you call someone who follows the example set by the historical figure of Jesus Christ but rejects the Bible? I mean, "Christian" really is the best possible word for someone who follows Christ, is it not? If you're really more concerned with strict adherence to the Bible, perhaps you should refer to yourself as "Biblian" and let those who want to follow Christ, however they decide to follow him, keep the word "Christian."
Catholicism isn't Christian, it's Christian based off of man's definition
Aren't all religions based off mans definition? Religions are man-made constructs. Most of them don't even claim otherwise.
Yes, we know we are not perfect, but that does not mean that we are to not try to follow the teachings, we are to follow them as best we can, Catholicism just straight up doesn't do anything right pretty much, you are very ignorant as what it means to be a Christian, we know that we sin, that's why we are to be baptized and ask for forgiveness, not just say whoops! Oh well, what think is being Christian is false, we are meant to try as hard as we can to be like Christ, yes we will sin, yes we are not perfect, but that does not mean we are to keep living in sin, even when we know we are in sin, we must get out, you have a false definition of being a Christian
It is Catholicism is a branch of the religion of Christianity. That is just how it is catogoricalized since it is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion that centers around the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Christianity started as a sect in the Jewish religion that was often persecuted by various governments as the time. Eventually this persecution stopped when Constantine passed the act of tolerance, allowing Christians to worship in public. His successor created the State Church of Roman, which eventually evoled into the roman catholic church and the eastern orthodox church. Later came the great scism that split the parts of the roman catholic church into other groups such as luthorism, cavinism, etc. While some of the reasons for these splits were justified, such as the indulgences the church was selling at the time, others were not so, such as the king of England wanting to divorce his wife despite the Pope's objection (so the king made himself pope).
Yea it's a branch, making it a denomination, but that does not mean it is Christian, in the Christian belief we are not to be separate, example denominations, denominations do something that is not commanded in the bible or teach something the wrong way, so actually Catholicism is not Christian
By saying Christian meaning that one that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.The only difference between Catholicism and other Christian religions is the way of worship. Its deity is the same therefore Catholicism is Christian.
Yeah, i am beginning to think so too. I'd be willing to debate him on the topic, but he just keeps spiting back the same quote in responding to every argument i make without actually responding to my argument in context.
okay okay it seems you need a history lesson. you see in the begining of Christyanity there was the Christian church. the Christian was doctrinaly identical with what we now call the Catholic Church. the church remaned one untill a radical grope in greece (or what was then byzanteum) called iconoclasts broke away from the Christian Church and formed the Orthodox (greek for correct) Christian Church. the un changed Christian church renamed its self the Catholic (latin for universal) Church.
okay history time. back when Christianity was young it was called the Christian Church and its practices and docterans are still caried out by the Catholic Church. this Church was one untill a radical grope of reformists in byzanteum (what is now greece and parts of turky) called iconoclasts broke away and formed the Orthodox (greek word meaning correct) Christian Church. meanwhile the unchanged Christian church renamed its self the Romen (because it is baced out of rome) Catholic (a latin word meaning universal) Church. and all the prodistant religions broke away from the Catholic Church for similer reasons centries later.
That's exactly what I just said. Doctrinally the original Christian Church is totally unchanged it's just referred to as Catholicism now. Thank you for agreeing with me.
Yes since All Catholics are Christians. Of all the religions that believe in Christ, Catholicism is one of the first organized religions which follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Religious groups named protestants in general only surfaced during the time of Martin Luther during the Dark ages because of the abuse of the Catholic priests. Therefore one cannot deny that Catholicism is one of the grandest pillars in the Christian faith.
False, was not the first, and Catholics are not Christians for they perform acts of worship not commanded or the wrong way, that is sin, Catholicism is a large religion, but its not Christian
First group of Christians were the followers of Christ, Christians, the right way is to be Christian and to follow teachings the way they were meant to be followed, Catholicism does not do that
False, catholicism's teachings and practices are correct sometimes, but there are many teachings and practices which are not correct and condemned by the bible, so no Catholicism is not Christian, it is its own religion
But Catholics perform acts of vain worship, that is not Christian, I'm not talking about what they believe I'm talking about their practices, which for the most part are incorrect
There are many sects of Christianity, all of them do different things. Is Catholicism the only one you say is not Christian? Christianity is a set of beliefs stemming from Jesus Christ. If you believe in Jesus Christ as the savior, then you are a Christian.
Any denomination is not Christian, they all believe Jesus Christ was their savior that is true, but they all do something differently and split themselves from Christ
There is no "correct" way of worshiping Christ. Even if we are part of the same belief, we still have our own practices ranging from the community to oneself.
they are incorrect by the standerds of your Church but you church is probebly one of those that broke away from the Catholic Church so its understandable that there are doctrinal differances it dosent make them un Christian
Actually, Catholics do many many wrong forms of worship making them not the correct way, however my church does not, my church was the first church, it did not break from the Catholic Church
And what church would that be? Because the closest thing to Christianity that existed before the Catholic Church (though at the time of its conception it was called something els) was Judaism
The correct form of worship, well there are many parts, what the Catholics do wrong is, baptizing as a child, confessions, the pope, those bead things forgot what they are called, drinking wine, only fish on Fridays, lent, there's probably more that's wrong
every other "Christian" religion broke off from the Catholic Church at some point so historicly speeking it could be argued that Catholisism is the original Christianity
Are you serious, the bible says what the first church was, the catholic was created by some other guy to control the population, that's why it performs many wrong forms of worship