CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
You can share this debate in three different ways:
#1
#2
#3
Paste this URL into an email or IM:
Click here to send this debate via your default email application.
Click here to login and CreateDebate will send an email for you.
This is a private debate. See the FAQ for more info.
Challenge Debate: Challenge Debate: The Existence Of The Christian God. (Challenge Debate: Ado vs. Drem)
I stumbled upon your debate with Srom and enjoyed it for the most part, though it seems he stood no chance against you.
I wanted to see what it would be like to debate you on the same issue, but something you must know is that I am in no way, shape, or form a Christian. You just seemed to have all the answers, easily defeating Srom. He lost because he was close minded, on that I think you would agree, but just how open minded are you? We'll find out. With that said, I guess I just need to restate the question you presented to Srom.
First of all, I can see now why Srom couldn't hold his own against you. He never really tackled your argument but with good reason. You see, he couldn't tackle your argument on the debate because your argumant doesn't tackle the debate.
The question was, "Does the Christian God exist?"
You said, "My point in this argument is that, if God is omnibenevolent-"
And I will stop you right there because the question has nothing to do with whether or not he is omnibenevolent. You challenged Srom to a debate on the topic of THE EXISTENCE OF THE CHRISTIAN GOD. I challenged you to the very same thing, a debate on THE EXISTENCE OF THE CHRISTIAN GOD, for future reference please stick to the topic sir. So you, being on the atheist side, should focus on proving the nonexistence of the christian god, and I, being on my side, will focus on the opposite.
So my reason for not debating your argument is simply because your argument has nothing to do with the debate.
Now on to the debate...
My argument on why the christian god exists is because people make him exist.
Everything that exists in the world, in reality, is a thing. Something you can touch, something you can see, smell, taste, e.t.c. All the other things that seemingly exist to us are all in our head. Most atheists refuse to believe in god simply because he is not one of these things that you see, well at the very least he's just one of the things in our minds.
For example, a pen and paper is real...You see those...So you believe in them right?...
But what about evil? Is evil real? I'm 100% sure you can't physically touch evil and yet you still believe in it. If I asked you if you could see evil, you might say, "Well yeah, people are murdered every day, crime is everywhere, you can't tell me that isn't evil!" That's something you would say because evil exists to you. Now is god real? I'm 100% sure you can't physically touch god and yet people still believe in him. If I asked a christian if they could see god, they might say, "Well yeah, people pray to him everyday, love is everywhere, you can't tell me thatisn't god!" That's something they would say because god exists to them. If you choose to not believe in god, you might as well not believe in everything else you can't see or touch, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
People argue against evil. Something you may see as evil, I might see as something else. Maybe because I don't believe in evil. And people argue against god the same way, maybe because you don't believe in god.
But at the end of the day, if I'm a christian, god exists to me and no one can take that from me because that's my belief. So god exists simply because people make him exist to them. And the good thing about beliefs is the fact that you don't need anything to support it, you simply believe in something because you want to. It's the power of the imagination.
You being an atheist can choose to not believe, and so he will never exist to you, and so he will never exist, in your eyes. But for the theists, people like Srom, their beliefs allow God to exist to them, and that's all anyone ever needs to make him real.
Dispute if you will but I find no flaws in my logic.
So when you say to someone, God does not exist, what you mean to say to them is that, God does not exist to you, because god exists to them. And because god exists to them, god exists...period...
So when you say to someone, God does exist, what you mean to say to them is that, God does exist to you, because god doesn't exist to them. And because god doesn't exist to them, god doesn't exist...period...
(You have displayed a form of twisted logic, and flawed thinking.)
Just because god doesn't exist to you does not mean god doesn't exist. All it takes is for one person to make him exist. There only needs to be one light to find the way. It's a positive thought to believe in something and to not believe in something equals nothing. Just as light is something positive, and dark is nothing. Dark is merely the absence of light. But light and dark are not equals, wherever light choices to be, dark must give way. Light brightens but dark doesn't darken. So when someone believes in something, you can't take that away by not believing in it. Your choice to not believe in something equals nothing. If one person says god exists to them, god exists. Why do you think god is light? Because darkness, or someone not believing in him can't take him away. He will always be there if people choose to allow him the stay.
This is not twisted logic or flawed thinking. The universe is made up of everything and nothing. That's all.
First of all, I can see now why Srom couldn't hold his own against you. He never really tackled your argument but with good reason. You see, he couldn't tackle your argument on the debate because your argumant doesn't tackle the debate.
The question was, "Does the Christian God exist?"
You said, "My point in this argument is that, if God is omnibenevolent-"
And I will stop you right there because the question has nothing to do with whether or not he is omnibenevolent. You challenged Srom to a debate on the topic of THE EXISTENCE OF THE CHRISTIAN GOD. I challenged you to the very same thing, a debate on THE EXISTENCE OF THE CHRISTIAN GOD, for future reference please stick to the topic sir. So you, being on the atheist side, should focus on proving the nonexistence of the christian god, and I, being on my side, will focus on the opposite.
You missed out most of the "hences."
This is what I mean to say, (If I haven't already clarified it enough.)
If God is Omnibenevolent, but commits an act that is evil, he loses his status as omnibenevolent, this means he has committed contradiction.
But since omnibenevolent defines his existence, his existence is therefore contradicted. Therefore disproving the existence of God.
Understand?
... So calm down...
My argument on why the christian god exists is because people make him exist.
Everything that exists in the world, in reality, is a thing. Something you can touch, something you can see, smell, taste, e.t.c. All the other things that seemingly exist to us are all in our head. Most atheists refuse to believe in god simply because he is not one of these things that you see, well at the very least he's just one of the things in our minds.
For example, a pen and paper is real...You see those...So you believe in them right?...
But what about evil? Is evil real? I'm 100% sure you can't physically touch evil and yet you still believe in it. If I asked you if you could see evil, you might say, "Well yeah, people are murdered every day, crime is everywhere, you can't tell me that isn't evil!" That's something you would say because evil exists to you. Now is god real? I'm 100% sure you can't physically touch god and yet people still believe in him. If I asked a christian if they could see god, they might say, "Well yeah, people pray to him everyday, love is everywhere, you can't tell me thatisn't god!" That's something they would say because god exists to them. If you choose to not believe in god, you might as well not believe in everything else you can't see or touch, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
People argue against evil. Something you may see as evil, I might see as something else. Maybe because I don't believe in evil. And people argue against god the same way, maybe because you don't believe in god.
But at the end of the day, if I'm a christian, god exists to me and no one can take that from me because that's my belief. So god exists simply because people make him exist to them. And the good thing about beliefs is the fact that you don't need anything to support it, you simply believe in something because you want to. It's the power of the imagination.
You being an atheist can choose to not believe, and so he will never exist to you, and so he will never exist, in your eyes. But for the theists, people like Srom, their beliefs allow God to exist to them, and that's all anyone ever needs to make him real.
Dispute if you will but I find no flaws in my logic.
I find a flaw in your logic.
Firstly, this law does not only apply to the Christian God.
And since you haven't answered, nor justified why he wants children stoned for committing "capital offenses" of dishonor, through vocalizing sound, which somehow earns the child a painful death, I'd have to say, the Christian God currently invalid, unless you can find a proper dispute that Srom failed to give.
Also, this is a form of flawed thinking- I could just say, "God doesn't exist to me."
And that means God doesn't exist...
Or I could at least say, "Unicorns exist to me." And so that means Unicorns are real.
Like I said, god being omnibenevolent has nothing to do with his existence. It does not define his existence. Please show me when and where god specifically said he was omnibenevolent. If you point to the bible please note that the bible was written by human beings, just because those humans believed god was omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent, does not mean he was all of the above.
Also, there is no flaw in my logic, of course it doesn't just go for the christian god, it goes for everything that isn't already here. Love, Hate, right and wrong, evil, good, dark, all the words in all of the languages, everything that is nothing can be made real with the power of the imagination. Religion is a faith. You simply have to believe and it becomes real to you. Therefor it exists.
And to justify the stoning, like I previously stated, the bible was written by human beings who thought they knew god. If I had a father who never spoke to me and I only heard things about him and knew that he was always watching me, I'd seek his approval. And in seeking his approval I'd have to assume what he'd want me to do and how he'd want me to act. Maybe they got it wrong sometimes. But I know for a fact that god never came down while they were writing and wrote down, "CHILDREN SHALL BE STONED TO DEATH FOR DEFIENCE". That much I know.
Also, you can not say god doesn't exist to you and therefor god doesn't exist. All you can say is that god doesn't exist to you because as long as one person believes in god, god exists. As long as something is out there, it's out there. When you say god doesn't exist, that equals zero. But when someone says he does exist, that equals 1. The universe is made up of everything and nothing. Your thought would equal nothing wheras their thought would equal everything meaning yours doesnt phase the end result.
Light can brighten, dark doesn't darken sir. It's your negative thought that doesn't matter, but their positive one that does.
And if you said that about unicorns, that doesn't mean unicorns are real. It means unicorns exist. Not that they're real, they merely exist because they exist to you. If you're real, you exist, but if you exist it doesn't always mean you're real. Don't get that confused.
Like I said, god being omnibenevolent has nothing to do with his existence. It does not define his existence.
God being omnibenevolent, but then commiting acts of evil means contradiction.
Would you worship an Evil God? Would you believe in a God that calls himself infinitely moral, when he has done evil? Would you continue calling him "love" and "infinitely moral" when he has murdered children?
If you point to the bible please note that the bible was written by human beings, just because those humans believed god was omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent, does not mean he was all of the above.
The bible invented Christianity. By saying that the bible was made by man, and that what they writ in the bible was not what God intended, you have invalidated Christianity... just saying... they would of made it all up, what with the talking snakes, donkeys, people rising from the dead, noah's ark, etc.
Also, there is no flaw in my logic, of course it doesn't just go for the christian god, it goes for everything that isn't already here. Love, Hate, right and wrong, evil, good, dark, all the words in all of the languages, everything that is nothing can be made real with the power of the imagination. Religion is a faith. You simply have to believe and it becomes real to you. Therefor it exists.
Oh how awesome is that?! Unicorns actually exist!
I believed they exist, but since that is all you have to do to make them exist, the world can now own their own unicorns too... oh wait.
Brain chemicals do not make reality. If I used my mind to think that Unicorns existed, that would be called "Imagination."
Anyway, this is twisted thinking. What if you were a mental patient? You wouldn't be able to trust their minds as they would have chemical imbalances.
And to justify the stoning, like I previously stated, the bible was written by human beings who thought they knew god.
This kind of makes me laugh...
Your bible created everything that Christianity is today... it gave us Jesus, mary, the Revelation, the commandments, how to worship the Christian God, how to pray, the existence of a hell.
If you as a christian actually accept this, maybe the debate should be more of an agnostic based debate, instead of being based upon flawed Christianity.
If I had a father who never spoke to me and I only heard things about him and knew that he was always watching me, I'd seek his approval. And in seeking his approval I'd have to assume what he'd want me to do and how he'd want me to act.
Yeah, but if you chose not to believe in him, that father would make you suffer for eternity...
Maybe they got it wrong sometimes. But I know for a fact that god never came down while they were writing and wrote down, "CHILDREN SHALL BE STONED TO DEATH FOR DEFIENCE". That much I know.
Man writ the whole bible, from front to back.
If you believe that the laws of Leviticus are especially man-made, that would make verses like "Gays are an abomination" no longer viable.
- Besides, the style of wording in which the bible was written matches in relation to all the gospels. That means that there is no significant difference in literature skill that could be found between a supposed divine being/influenced writer, and an average human who thinks they know about God.
Because of this lack of distinction, I guess it's safe to assume that the whole thing was man-made, and was definitely written without any form of influence from a divine being.
-- based upon your flawed claim that states that only some bits of the (cherry picked) bible are man made, of course.
Also, you can not say god doesn't exist to you and therefor god doesn't exist. All you can say is that god doesn't exist to you because as long as one person believes in god, god exists. As long as something is out there, it's out there. When you say god doesn't exist, that equals zero. But when someone says he does exist, that equals 1. The universe is made up of everything and nothing. Your thought would equal nothing wheras their thought would equal everything meaning yours doesnt phase the end result.
Okay, so Unicorns, fairies, the fact that Obama is a rainbow in disguise equal 1 too.
And if you said that about unicorns, that doesn't mean unicorns are real. It means unicorns exist. Not that they're real, they merely exist because they exist to you. If you're real, you exist, but if you exist it doesn't always mean you're real. Don't get that confused.
^^ How does that help us in anyway? We are not debating about imagination here.
And if you said that about God, that doesn't mean God is real. It means God exists. Not that he/she is real, he/she merely exists because he/she exists to you. If you're real, you exist, but if you exist it doesn't always mean you're real. Don't get that confused.
God being omnibenevolent has nothing to do with his existence. What defines his existence would be the mere fact that I believe in him. At the end of the day, whether or not he is omnibenevolent, if I believer in him he exists to me. I would worship anyone if I damn well pleased. I have free will sir. All the Christians in the world have free will so no matter what you say, they're going to use their imagination and believe in god. God exists to them. If you can debate that argument then you will have won this debate. So tell me, does god exist to them or not? Because if he exists to them, he exists.
The bible didn't invent Christianity. How the hell does a book come before the religion? Christianity came first, and then the book was written ON Christianity. Christianity back then that is. I am not invalidating Christianity, I am simply saying that Christianity today is not the same as it was back then, therefore you can't use the bible as an argument. We are talking about two different Christianities, cause like I said, do you see children being stoned today?.....Not at all sir. Two different Christianities.
And yes, the world can own its own unicorn. Unicorns won't be real unless science permits, but at the very least unicorns can exist in our heads. That is the imagination. Which is the one thing you are to close minded to grasp.
The bible didn't create the religion, man created the religion. A religion isn't anything more than a belief and beliefs stem from the imagination. That's all.
Verses in the bible are only viable to the people who believe in the Christian god. They aren’t viable to you which is why I say you can’t use the bible for your argument. It’s THEIR faith. If they choose to believe in him than that’s THEIR choice.
Oh and this debate will never be about agnostics rather than a flawed christianity. You are proving exactly what I said earlier. Your arguments are tackling an entirely other debate than what we are talking about. This debate is NOT, and I repeat, NOT about the religion of christianity and the flaws that may come with it. This debate, as I have stated time and time again is only, ONLY about the existence of the christian god. I have proven his existence. A religion is nothing more than a belief. Everyone one has beliefs. Everyone makes something that is nothing, exist to them. Right and wrong, or justice, is an example of something that is nothing, pushed into existence with the power of the imagination. If you don't accept something like a belief, somethingyou can't see, touch or hear, just because you can't see touch or hear it, then you might as well not believe in everything else that is not in reality. You might as well not believe in love. I know for a fact you can't touch love, but is love real? Yes, because we make it real. But if you don't see that, I dare you to go and tell all of your loved one's that you don't believe in things like love. Things that you don't see don't exist to you. If that is the way you think then you are empty sir. Nothing.
And if you chose not to believe in him you will not go to hell for eternity. That's a part of the christian faith, a christian faith in which you don't believe in, it is not viable to you so you cannot use it in this argument. If you don't believe in it, it does not exist to you, and if doesn't exist to you, then how the hell are you gonna talk about it? How do you know what you're saying if it doesn't exist to you. Your argument is useless.
Unicorns, fairies, and the fact that obama is a rainbow in disguise can be any number. At the end of the day they're all positive. To where, you trying not to make those thoughts exist, equal nothing. Life is about the pursuit of happiness and you find true happiness in being yourself. The imagination allows us to be ourselves. It is the passport that manifests our soul into the real world. So the imagination allows us to be happy. These people, christians and all, people of every religion are simply using their imaginations to be happy, as everyone does, and who the hell are you to say that their beliefs aren't real? It's a damn belief for christ's sake. No one needs anything for a belief, they simply need to want it, and there it is, something to make them happy. I imagine that these people are much happier than you are as they find happiness by themselves when it comes to religion. But you? You find happiness in attacking other people's religions, their beliefs. That is sad sir...They're doing nothing wrong by being happy...
And at the end of the day, this helps us because the imagination allows us to be happy. Without it, we wouldn't be alive. Physically we'd be alive, but we wouldn't FEEL alive. Everybody dies, but not everybody lives. read between those lines sir.
In conclusing, I am not arguing that god is real. I'm not a christian remember? I said that in the description of this debate. But I am arguing the existence of the chrisitan god. He at least exists sir. That's all I needed for this debate, that's why I debated with the power of the imagination. God's existence is proven with the imagination, which makes anything that is nothing exist. You have lost. Tell Srom how it feels.
Could you try quoting my arguments and points, so we won't have a jumble of arguments, some forgotten.
God being omnibenevolent has nothing to do with his existence. What defines his existence would be the mere fact that I believe in him. At the end of the day, whether or not he is omnibenevolent, if I believer in him he exists to me. I would worship anyone if I damn well pleased. I have free will sir. All the Christians in the world have free will so no matter what you say, they're going to use their imagination and believe in god. God exists to them. If you can debate that argument then you will have won this debate. So tell me, does god exist to them or not? Because if he exists to them, he exists.
1. We are not debating about imagination. It is irrelevant.
Our whole entire race does not care if God exists inside the mind of a maniac, or any person.
A large percent of people believe that the Islamic God exists to them. But then another percentage of the world believes that the Jewish God exists to them. See how devoid of logic it is? There can only be one God.
And also, people could be fed lies, and believe anything.
If you asked a Christian why God Existed to them, for all you know, they could of been fed lies at a young age.
Derp
This is not the meaning of this debate.
2. The bible saying that the Christian God is not evil, when he commits evil acts means it is contradiction, therefore a lie. If the bible is so holy, and yet lies to us, how is it so hard not to assume it was man made, as the Divine Being that the bible created was unable to lie, since lying is a sin.
We are debating about the Christian God, so if he is infinitely moral, but commits immoral acts, that would be a dagger to the divine heart.
The bible didn't invent Christianity. How the hell does a book come before the religion? Christianity came first, and then the book was written ON Christianity. Christianity back then that is. I am not invalidating Christianity, I am simply saying that Christianity today is not the same as it was back then, therefore you can't use the bible as an argument. We are talking about two different Christianities, cause like I said, do you see children being stoned today?.....Not at all sir. Two different Christianities.
Um... The Bible is the basis of that religion. The people that writ the bible invented Jesus. They also invented stories like "Noah's Ark" or "Genesis/Adam and Eve"- Even if they wouldn't of lived back then to be eyewitnesses. And that is because it is mostly Fiction. If you pull the bible off Christianity, it is nothing more than a cult- as people are so drawn to believing that the bible is the Word of God, when it definitely is not. The image of God, that we see today, the image of Jesus, and the Devil, came from the bible. And if we find that the bible (which is the basis of Christianity) lies to us, that means that not only was the bible a lie, but christianity is also a lie. Jesus is a lie. Genesis is a lie. The devil is a lie. The cake is a lie...
And yes, the world can own its own unicorn. Unicorns won't be real unless science permits, but at the very least unicorns can exist in our heads. That is the imagination. Which is the one thing you are to close minded to grasp.
You are making this so much easier- yet so much harder.
(Damn we should of renamed the debate title as "Is the Christian God Real.")
As I have said before, the whole entire race does not care if a person believes that everyone around him is a rainbow in disguise. It does not support us as a race, and it is completely illogical.
I will repeat: We are not debating about Imagination. We are debating about something that would actually support us and the human race. We are debating about reality, our existence, and what made us. Your argument is invalid, and in my mind, I think you are a pink flower- but you know you are not a pink flower, but in fact a human being.
Debating about imagination is a Delusional Illusion. We should pull our head out of such nonsense, and think about what actually helps us.
The bible didn't create the religion, man created the religion. A religion isn't anything more than a belief and beliefs stem from the imagination. That's all.
Verses in the bible are only viable to the people who believe in the Christian god. They aren’t viable to you which is why I say you can’t use the bible for your argument. It’s THEIR faith. If they choose to believe in him than that’s THEIR choice.
And since we have hopefully established that imagination does not support us in any way, but offers an illusion from what is really important, I reckon it is safe to say that Christianity is an illusion.
And illusions are not logical to debate with. And since illusions divert our minds away from reality, and existence, I reckon it is safe to say that Christianity/ the Christian God diverts our minds away from reality, and existence. That means that Christianity/ the Christian God is Anti-Existent.
Oh, and what does the debate title say? "The Existence of The Christian God."
And by Existence, I mean on the plain of reality, not imagination.
This means that the Christian God does not exist on the plain of reality that concerns us. Move your "existence in imagination" debate elsewhere. We are not debating about that illusion here.
The bible didn't create the religion, man created the religion. A religion isn't anything more than a belief and beliefs stem from the imagination. That's all.
Uh... I thought we were debating about the Existence of the Christian God. Now I see this debate has changed from reality, to the imagination.
Verses in the bible are only viable to the people who believe in the Christian god. They aren’t viable to you which is why I say you can’t use the bible for your argument. It’s THEIR faith. If they choose to believe in him than that’s THEIR choice.
We cannot trust the imagination, as those Christians could be fed lies.
Oh and this debate will never be about agnostics rather than a flawed christianity. You are proving exactly what I said earlier. Your arguments are tackling an entirely other debate than what we are talking about. This debate is NOT, and I repeat, NOT about the religion of christianity and the flaws that may come with it. This debate, as I have stated time and time again is only, ONLY about the existence of the christian god.
How does that help us in any way?
I have proven his existence. A religion is nothing more than a belief. Everyone one has beliefs. Everyone makes something that is nothing, exist to them. Right and wrong, or justice, is an example of something that is nothing, pushed into existence with the power of the imagination.
~ The power of brain chemicals. Evolution invented the mind to give us reason and thought, so we knew that when there was a cliff, we must not jump off of it, as our death would delay progress to our species. Since Evolution has found out that a mind can elevate a species through new heights, higher than any other animal before, our minds have become improved. Imagination came with this, it gave us goals and dreams. It gave us thoughts on how to invent new tools and new ways to support our race. The imagination is a gift from evolution. But there is a point at which the imagination may become an illusion. You'd best remember that imagination can become an illusion.
If you don't accept something like a belief, somethingyou can't see, touch or hear, just because you can't see touch or hear it, then you might as well not believe in everything else that is not in reality. You might as well not believe in love. I know for a fact you can't touch love, but is love real? Yes, because we make it real.
Love is brain chemicals. :)
But I do accept some beliefs. I actually found my self believing in ghosts at times. Belief is a natural human concept, and no matter how skeptical a person can get, there would always be a kind of belief in them. But just like imagination, belief can be an illusion.
But if you don't see that, I dare you to go and tell all of your loved one's that you don't believe in things like love.
Caring for other people supports us as a species. That is why Evolution gave us the ability to care.
Things that you don't see don't exist to you. If that is the way you think then you are empty sir. Nothing.
I will believe what can be proven that it is not a illusion. You may be currently under an illusion right now...
And if you chose not to believe in him you will not go to hell for eternity. That's a part of the christian faith, a christian faith in which you don't believe in, it is not viable to you so you cannot use it in this argument.
It's logically not viable to anyone.
If you don't believe in it, it does not exist to you, and if doesn't exist to you, then how the hell are you gonna talk about it?
What?
I came on this debate, based on the assumption you were supporting Christianity as something real, not existent. I mentioned hell as I assumed it was what you believed.
How do you know what you're saying if it doesn't exist to you. Your argument is useless.
Imagination is useless. I believe there was no hell. Another person may believe there is a hell, but with fire and lava. But then another person believes that hell is a confrontation between everyone you've ever wronged.
- Those 2 hells cannot logically co-exist together in the plain of reality. It can only exist in the illogical plain of imagination. And believing in the illogical plain of imagination would be an illusion, as we don't belong there; we belong in the plain of reality as it is where we were born and where we come from, and it is what should concern us- As it is what affects us. To trust imagination as logical and trustworthy would be an illusion.
Unicorns, fairies, and the fact that obama is a rainbow in disguise can be any number. At the end of the day they're all positive. To where, you trying not to make those thoughts exist, equal nothing. Life is about the pursuit of happiness and you find true happiness in being yourself. The imagination allows us to be ourselves. It is the passport that manifests our soul into the real world. So the imagination allows us to be happy. These people, christians and all, people of every religion are simply using their imaginations to be happy, as everyone does,
~ Evolution, and our drive of survival and improvisation of our species is the meaning of life. Happiness can just be induced by the brain chemical Serotonin and Dopamine. Maybe take some of these chems and your pursuit of happiness may be achieved. ;)
Seratonin and Dopamine are just rewards for doing humanity a favor.
who the hell are you to say that their beliefs aren't real? It's a damn belief for christ's sake. No one needs anything for a belief, they simply need to want it, and there it is, something to make them happy. I imagine that these people are much happier than you are as they find happiness by themselves when it comes to religion. But you? You find happiness in attacking other people's religions, their beliefs. That is sad sir...They're doing nothing wrong by being happy...
Who the hell are you to say that my belief that hell doesn't exist isn't real? It makes me happy to think that after death, I won't be going to hell because I am an atheist, and it makes me happy that all logic that disproves the existence of hell is actually true. That is sad sir... I'm doing nothing wrong by being happy...
You may not accept, nor understand this, but a void after death does equal 1. It counts as something. If you saw black and white, the black in which displays my belief that hell doesn't exist and the white displaying the belief that hell does exist, one would be blind to think that that "Black" side equaled nothing. It did consume space, it did have someone imagine it, and it did have someone to say it. Does this not mean that this "Nothing" is actually a something that equals 1?
And at the end of the day, this helps us because the imagination allows us to be happy. Without it, we wouldn't be alive. Physically we'd be alive, but we wouldn't FEEL alive. Everybody dies, but not everybody lives. read between those lines sir.
Seratonin and Dopamine take on that effect. When you do something worth being proud of, those glands in the brain produce Seratonin and Dopamine like crazy.
There are some people who's brains could not provide Seratonin and Dopamine, and that was why they could never understand or display happiness. You are just describing the feelings that these brain chemicals produce. That "alive" feeling? That's brain chemicals at work.
In conclusing, I am not arguing that god is real. I'm not a christian remember? I said that in the description of this debate. But I am arguing the existence of the chrisitan god. He at least exists sir. That's all I needed for this debate, that's why I debated with the power of the imagination. God's existence is proven with the imagination, which makes anything that is nothing exist. You have lost. Tell Srom how it feels.
Existence is a pretty big Synonym for Reality. You have just been twisting and bending definition without my knowledge. But that's okay.
But I still don't see how I've lost... since, this debate in which you have intended it to become, has really been an illusion all this time. And it does not help us in anyway...
I wanted to debate about reality. I have no interest in brain chemicals, and how they cause people to think illogically.
My argument that Srom brazenly avoided needs a new home...
Please, dispute this argument- as no one will.
That Law was to honor your father and mother and when you disrespect them you undermine there authority that God placed in your life and it ruins society causing people to rebel against there parents authority and God.
So God values the parents honor over the child's life, health, and future? This isn't justice.
Murdering children cuts down a society by the heart. You can't have a new generation by stoning children.
This law is also clearly immoral, and obviously, no mentally stable family would stone their own child to death.
It also completely goes against evolution as it prevents the continuation of our species.
If you believe that this law was perfectly justified, then we have lost you as a logical human.
The Law was fulfilled when Jesus died on the cross. That is why we don't go by the Old Testament to get to God, we have a relationship with Jesus Christ and that is the New Testament. So Levitcus 20:9 Jesus took the punishment of cursing your father and mother and all other sins.
So what if some troll knocked it out. God still made it. He invented it, even when he is supposed to be omnibenevolent.
If you still believe that stoning children to protect "honor" is an act of infinite morality, justice, and goodness, you are a monster. Imagine the pain those children would of went through- they didn't understand what was happening to them. What if someone told them a swear word and they didn't know what it meant?
And trust me, being stoned to death hurt like hell, and took a very long time.
(I wouldn't be surprised if this argument didn't receive a reply.)
^^My point in this argument is that, if God is omnibenevolent, why is he such a hypocrite by demanding that children be brutally and barbarically stoned for vocalizing mere vibrations in the air, to be heard by their parents, to somehow damage a kind of human-invented honor (honor can be an illusion.) to their parents.
What kind of "infinitely omnibenevolent" God would demand this?
Would this be your definition of someone infinitely moral, and omnibenevolent?
(btw, It's refreshing to have a more open-minded person to debate with.)
You are clearly using this as an excuse to avoid it.
Here, let me explain: If God is said to be Omnibenevolent, but has committed an act of evil, he has contradicted himself. Therefore, he does not Exist.
Understand?
It is a point, that states that God cannot exist if he commits evil.
That's right, "cannot exist."
So this means it has direct relation towards the debate topic.
Because on the contrary, if he does exist, but still commits evil, he could be no different to a petty being, not deserving the right to be worshiped. If God is "love" and all that is "good" and the devil is "evil" and all that is "bad," it wouldn't make sense that the embodiment of morality is immoral.
When God is repeatedly said to be infinitly moral and "perfect," a contradiction is the last thing he needs if people are gonna believe him.
Let us analyze your sentence. You said, "If god is said to be omnibenevolent, but has committed an act of evil, he has contridicted himself. Therefor he does not exist"
I understand your way of think. But pay attention to what you're saying because you don't even know what you're saying.
You said, "If god is SAID to be omnibenevolent..."
If he is SAID to be omnibenevolent, that means someone ELSE said he was omnibenevolent and if someone ELSE said he was omnibenevolent, how in the hell can he contradict HIMSELF. He does not contradict his own existence, MAN contradicts his existence through the bible because the bible, as you stated, was written by man with no influence of anything other than man.
I understand that it is a point that god cannot exist if he commits evil. But the problem of evil doesn't exist in reality. The same way you are arguing that god does not exist, I can argue that evil doesn't exist. Because in reality, evil does not exist. Evil exists in your head and that is all. The only thing that makes stoning evil is because you THINK its evil. If you didn't think it was evil then it wouldn't be, correct? And if the bible is real and all stories hold true, who's to say that back then, back when the bible was written, who's to say that the people of those days viewed stoning as evil. I know for a fact that things that aren't okay now, used to be okay then. That's how history works. Look at slavery, slavery existed, but now there are so many people who view it as a type of evil that it is no longer allowed, but at some point, people didn't think of it as evil, so it existed. Do you see little children being stoned today?......I'm waiting....I don't think so, because we see it as evil today, but back then, it happened all the time. So maybe he did it, if he did anything because I believe he's indifferent, because to the people back then it was okay. You are merely referencing from a primary source from to many years ago. You have different views than those people who lived so long ago so of course you're going to object and dispute. The WORLD has different views than those people. The world has changed. But the people's faiths still remain. God is the embodiment of morality for the people of that time. This is OUR time, not the time of the people in the bible, so using the bible to argue is useless. Because morals change as people change. As the world change. He is infinitly moral because his morals change with the time, they change with ours. At all times, he is whatever you view him as. Why? because like I said, he exists simply because people make him exist. No one ever said he was real. No one ever said they could feel him like the rocks beneath my feet. All people ever said is that he exists, and its true because he exists to them. This debate isn't even about if he's real. It's about his existence. Open you mind. Realize what makes a belief a belief. Realize that if you make something exist that isn't already in reality, then it exists. Not to me, not my dog, but to you. Derp.
This argument has always been about imagination. Everything that has nothing to do with reality is imagination. Think about this...What makes a rock a rock? Well a rock is a rock. But the WORD "rock" was created by man and the only reason why it continues to exist is because of a common acceptance of the WORD. But that WORD came from a man's IMAGINATION. That man could have just as easily named a rock, cheese. He could've said whatever. If he had named that rock cheese, than we would call rocks cheese today. And cheese rocks. And the moon would be made of cheese, just that easily. All because of the power of the imagination. When you debate, you debate because you have a different set of beliefs than your opponent, but your beliefs stem from you imagination, so at all times, all of our viewpoints and thoughts on things come from our imagination. It has always been just that, you have simply failed to realize, thus proving your close mindedness. There is not excuse. At the root of it all is everything and nothing. Reality and Imagination. Life is made up of those two. You can't have one without the other.
Pull your head out of this illusion... I did not intend to debate about brain chemicals. Have you just made this debate to play around? First, the debate says, "The Existence of the Christian God," but now you are intending it to be with all other Gods, and all other possible beliefs that simply cannot co-exist all together in the same time in our world. That is why imagination can be an illusion. You are present in the logical world. So stay present. And please, do not veer off astray into insanity. (What has been said and what has been intended to be said and what has been intended to be said towards you and your flawed thinking has been said previously from my other argument.)
