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Debate Info

456
473
Christianity Atheism
Debate Score:929
Arguments:436
Total Votes:1178
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 Christianity (220)
 
 Atheism (183)

Debate Creator

notmymuse(9) pic



Christianity or Atheism?

Oh no, did I ask the great question that atheists can't stand to hear?   Perhaps the negative position may be that the term "atheism" is incorrect?  The argument that a person cannot be a christian because of his or her flaws is also quite weak.  Christianity will stand the test of time as God is the one and the only.  Scientists make scientific errors all of the time.  Jesus Christ has never made a mistake and prophecies in the Bible have been and are still being fulfilled today.  God has been a gracious Father to provide both the atheist and christian the solid evidence of His truth.

Christianity

Side Score: 456
VS.

Atheism

Side Score: 473
15 points

False Dichotomy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would also like to point that atheism predates Christianity, destroying your "test of time" argument (which was bullshit to begin with- argumentum ad populum). In fact, by definition, atheism predates religion.

Side: Christianity
8 points

It's actually an appeal to antiquity; kudos to everything else, though.

Side: Christianity
7 points

Ah! Thank you! That was the term I was looking for .

Side: Christianity
Th3ZViru5(149) Disputed
3 points

For someone who considers himself so "logical," you're spending an awful lot of time arguing against something you don't believe it. Sound's illogical to me. Seems like if you really had some special logical knowledge than you'd be putting it to better use than prosecuting Christians all day. But hey, that'd only be the logical thing to do, right? :)

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points

No, atheism doesn't predate anything. It is a man made religion.

Side: Atheism
Apollo(1606) Disputed
10 points

WHAT!? Religion had to have existed before anyone could be an adherent of religion/god.

-

And claiming that atheism is a religion is like saying not playing soccer is a sport. Absolutely absurd.

Side: Christianity
Liber(1728) Disputed
8 points

How can something made by man not be predated by man?

Side: Christianity
Mushuukyou(29) Disputed
5 points

Atheism isn't a religion.

It's a lack of belief in gods.

The prefix a- means without/no, and theism means belief in a god.

Side: Christianity
Saurbaby(5578) Disputed
2 points

ALL religions are man made... -___-

Side: Christianity
pofo7(2) Clarified
2 points

I think it's more accurate to say non-theism predated religion. Atheism is just a rejection of the belief of all religions. Non-theist eventually explained things with deities, gods, whatever supernatural beings and created cults/religions and some people disagreed with their ideas and became atheists to that particular religion.

Side: Christianity
Thejackster(517) Disputed
2 points

Atheism isn't a religion, its a lack thereof. We are all atheists in a sense. Do you believe in Allah, or Zeus, Thor, Shiva, or any other Gods of various other religions, no? Then you are an atheist towards them, much like how I'm going one step further in saying that i don't believe in the christian god.

Side: Christianity
The Phantom(453) Clarified
2 points

It actually is not ad populum, its chronological snobbery.

Side: Christianity
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points

Could you ellaborate as I am not disagreeing with you. I would just love to hear more of how you feel on this.

Side: Christianity
Apollo(1606) Disputed
2 points

To my knowledge, that was the fallacy that because idea x predates idea y, idea x must be inferior to idea y. It is ad populum because he/she claimed that because many people have believed in it (for a long period of time), it is true.

Side: Atheism
canteenkenny(62) Disputed
1 point

Apollo....your statement is contradictory. How can you have a rejection of religion or God, if neither exists yet? That's like saying that sailboats predate water.

Side: Atheism
Apollo(1606) Disputed
2 points

That's not what atheism is. Atheism is disbelief in the existence of god (or gods).

How can one believe something that doesn't exist? It is like saying that not being a soccer fan predates the invention of soccer. How can one be a fan of a sport that doesn't exist? We are all born atheists...

Side: Christianity
billyjean107(1) Disputed
1 point

As for the "atheism" existed before Christianity argumentators,

You are all correct: The Dinosaurs, cockroaches, and apes that preceded us did not have the brain power to form religions as we do.

And it is sad that this is your best argument against atheism, why? because by doing so you all are already claiming that Atheism existed before God, meaning there was a time that God did not exist. After all, according to some old person: "I think therefore I am" meaning God HAD to have believed in himself and what he was doing in order to have existed, because according to christian doctrine, "God is eternal and sees and IS the past present and future, meaning there has and always was Christianity!"

But by claiming Atheism existed before Christianity, all of you are rejecting doctrine that God is eternal (Or you are claiming that God really has no idea what the fuck he his doing and just creates random shit just to see what it does), meaning that to everyone who has agreed to this argument and are Christians:

Congratulations! You have just created a new offshoot of Christianity:

Here I'll help you name it: Hypocrisy At it's Finest. or H.A.I.F Christianity.

-The name of the church is called: God is not eternal as According to us Atheism existed before God therefore SOME of the christian doctrine, including half the Bible is wrong on some and or many parts.

-Mass starts at 7 AM, those who fail to attend will burn in hell.

Side: Atheism

I found more peace in my belief and will continue to seek the Lord until the day I die.

Side: Christianity
3 points

Amen, as I will too. Jesus Christ is the only way to have that peace. I would be nothing without Him. He is my all.

Side: Christianity
pszNicx(7) Disputed
3 points

Children are happy believing in fairy tales, that doesn't make them true. Wanting something to be true because you're afraid of the truth won't make it so.

Side: Atheism
Mushuukyou(29) Disputed
3 points

Feeling that you've "found peace" in some disgustingly fallacious religion != it being true.

Sure, you might continue to believe in the bad set of beliefs, but you are irrational for doing so.

Side: Atheism
Pito(27) Disputed
2 points

So, good feelings are equivalent to well-reasoned arguments or evidence?

Side: Atheism
3 points

With you answer personally I would say both.

Side: Atheism
6 points

Well, as an active Pastafarian, I am disappointed at the lack of recognition of our religion. Along with Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, Roman mythology, Greek mythology, Norse mythology, Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism, Egyptian mythology, and Buddhism.

But seeing as I am a theist, I must be on this side.

Don't you wish there was a sarcasm feature on the internet?

Side: Christianity
5 points

This is the most idiotic debate i have ever seen. HOW you tell me please hoe did we get so perfect were the earth and sun and moon is in the right spot and are bodys function perfectly are hands made distinctively. Cause we were made after his own image.

Side: Christianity
pszNicx(7) Disputed
2 points

The Universe is a big place, no, REALLY big. That means that chemicals can mix in all sorts of ways in many different places. In most of those places nothing comes of it, millions upon millions of dead star systems. In a few (at least one) the conditions for life are just right, with a sun of the right temperature, a planet at the right distance and made of the right mix of chemicals.

This planet and star are perfect for us because this was the one that had the right conditions for us to exist. It's silly to argue that god must exist because of how perfect this is, it's perfect because if it wasn't we wouldn't be here, you don't need a god in the picture to explain that.

Side: Atheism
ChuckHades(3198) Disputed
1 point

HOW you tell me please hoe did we get so perfect were the earth and sun and moon is in the right spot and are bodys function perfectly are hands made distinctively. Cause we were made after his own image.

Aah, the teleological argument. It has been so mercilessly obliterated in so many different ways, I must share all of them.

1. The Ultimate 747 Gambit. Proposed by Richard Dawkins, it states that a designer complex enough to create complex life would need that complexity from an infinitely more complex designer. This leads to infinite regress.

2. The universe is wasteful. We can estimate that there 3x10^21 planets in the universe. Yet we only know one that has life. What sort of intelligent designer would be so wasteful with his design?

3. Careless designer. Much is made of the "fine tuning" of the universe. If we change just one number, life would be impossible. This is supposed to be evidence for God. But I say the opposite is true. Why would an omniscient God, who has the knowledge to create a perfect universe, and an omnipotent God, who has the power to create a perfect universe, create one on such a precarious knife edge? Moreover, if we are referring to Christianity, their God would be omnibenevolent, and have the desire to create a perfect universe.

4. Complexity does not imply design. Being ignorant of something does not make it designed.

5. Occam's Razor. We have a fairly decent understanding of how everything works. Implementing God violates Occam's Razor.

Side: Atheism
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
3 points

No, the multiverse is not nearly as simple as God, Occams razor does the exact opposite. Check out GodandScience.org.

Side: Christianity
5 points

Guess what, when I'm on my death bed taking my last breath, I'll be the most content person on this Earth. That's because I'll have no doubt in the back of my mind that I should not have to worry because I take the time in my life to practice my religion. I will have an inner joy and ecstasy with the thought of going to a perfect place. And what does it hurt to think like that? I sure wouldn't want to be the Atheist who decides in their final moments that maybe there actually is a God and then have to plead for forgiveness. No sir, I'm going to set myself up for a joyful passing. If you don't want to ensure that in yourself, be my guest. But you better be pretty darn sure of it.

Side: Christianity
5 points

Definitely Christianity :) and i am blessed to go to a christian school where i get to learn more about our amazing god :)

Side: Christianity
5 points

You rather die believing in god,than not believing and finding out he exists!

Side: Christianity
4 points

Atheists rely on proof even though they have none... So if my religion has no proof so that gives your religion proof atheists? Makes no sense. Where atheists have nothing to back themselves up with, when Christians do. And the thing they have to back themselves up with is the Bible, what do the atheists have? Evolution? Everyone knows evolution is a load of crap.

Side: Christianity
Apollo(1606) Disputed
5 points

Atheists rely on proof even though they have none

What do they need proof for?

So if my religion has no proof so that gives your religion proof atheists?

Saying atheism is a religion is like saying not playing soccer is a sport.

Makes no sense.

I agree, your logic makes no sense.

Where atheists have nothing to back themselves up with

What are atheists backing up? God's nonexistence? Atheist aren't claiming god's non-existence (thanks ThePyg), they look at the evidence given for a belief (or lack thereof) and and form a belief accordingly. Christians have no evidence their god exists, so atheists realize it is illogical to believe in something that has no evidence backing it. It asserts nothing so it needs defend nothing.

when Christians do.

HA! Like what?

the thing they have to back themselves up with is the Bible

Ahh. The bullshit bible?

The bible contradicts itself THOUSANDS of times. It is, therefore, not fact. It is full of historical inaccuracies, scientific impossibilities, self-refuatitions, etc. All of this means the bible is not in any sense of the word, fact. If I write down in a book that I am both 32 and 600 years old and claim that they are both facts, I would be labeled INSANE. If that book is the bible, however, I will be called a Christian.

Everyone knows evolution is a load of crap.

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

This is too good. Disprove evolution. 100% of gathered evidence supports evolution. 99.99% of the scientific community accepts it as fact. Creationism is bullshit.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
4 points

Why do you ask Christians for proof all the time? You are using such a cliche' response when stating about atheism in reference to a sport. If black is a color then atheism is a religion. It is logically impossible to have no beliefs. Get with the program.

Side: Christianity
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
2 points

100% of evidence supports micro evolution, there is a difference between that and life coming from some sort of "primordial soup", something that atheistic scientists are scrambling to prove because quite frankly all their ideas about how such a mechanism would work fall horribly short.

Side: Christianity

Hey hey no need to call creationism bullshit. Evolution being true, does not mean creationism is incorrect, in fact, Islamic creationism is compatible with some aspects of evolution, (I know this side is Christian but I am still taking it) The Quar'an says: 6 ayums, here, ayum is a stage in the creation of the Universe not necessarily 24 hours. Islam has its own school of evolutionary creation. More amazingly there were Muslim scientists way before Darwin who had concepts of evolution. In the 13th century, Nasir al-Din al-Tusi explains how the elements evolved into minerals, then plants, then animals, and then humans. Tusi then goes on to explain how hereditary variability was an important factor for biological evolution of living things:[1

"The organisms that can gain the new features faster are more variable. As a result, they gain advantages over other creatures. [...] The bodies are changing as a result of the internal and external interactions." See, maybe Adam and evolution both existed.

Side: Christianity
Th3ZViru5(149) Disputed
2 points

"99.99% of the scientific community accepts it as fact. Creationism is bullshit."

This coming from someone who believes all of humanity formed from a primordial soup that just happened to be laying in the right spot at the right time. You do realize how stupid that sounds, right? Your credibility just gets better and better. :O

Side: Christianity
Cuaroc(8826) Disputed
1 point

Everyone knows evolution is a load of crap.

Everyone knows evolution is a proven and widely popular theory.

Side: Atheism
0 points

Yes, they claim they have proof and I don't even see the common sense in arguing with a book - the Holy Bible who stands the test of time. You are exactly right, how they defend theirselves really turns them into hypocrites. They have no basis to stand on.

Side: Christianity
3 points

God helps those who help themselves! So i will go and healp myself to school laptops then god will help me?

Side: Christianity
3 points

This is just wrong we should not insult who we believe in we do not need to know what you people think

Side: Christianity
3 points

Well , if I'm not wrong , Atheism is that they don't believe in God . Prove me if I'm wrong . But in my view , no one can pretty much prove that God exist UNLESS you experience His love . And yes , i have experience His love for me . And not just me , for EVERYONE . Once ? No . Twice ? No . Thrice ? No . Well how about 4 times ? No . More than those . I have experienced God's love AND mercy . And His presence too . Probably this is just ONE of the reason why i still love God . I have felt Him that I have no reason not to love Him anymore . And I am not saying that I'm perfect . In fact , i still sin . But i repent . Not easy but with God nothing is impossible ( Luke 1:37 ) . And only by our Heavenly Father that we will go to His kingdom . John 3:16 " For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life " . God bless guys :D !

Side: Christianity
3 points

I was raised in a Freewill Baptist Church and was lucky to encounter a church full of people who were actually kind and practiced what they preached. Now, I consider myself a non-denominational who still wholly believes in the beliefs and teachings of the Christians, only now I see it like this: I believe in God, not religion.

Side: Christianity
3 points

i am christian so i have to back up my religon and i also get to go to church.

Side: Christianity
3 points

If God doesn't exist, how come there are loads of predictions, sent by God, written thousands of years before Jesus saying exactly what happened to Jesus?

Side: Christianity
3 points

Atheism is based on science, but faith is based on the soul. An atheist is always looking for the absence of God, but religious person just believes. Atheism should be constantly fed, but faith shouldn't be.

Although I'm religious person, I think atheist can stand to hear besause everyone is indepent and everyone has to have his own opinion.

Side: Christianity
3 points

Christianity, because I always root for the underdog. The membership of the atheist here is way bigger. Just look at the congregations of both.

Side: Christianity
2 points

Christianity strives to promote better morals and ethics. What does atheism contribute? Nothing. To believe that one should follow the ways of Christ, what harm is there. Real or not, Christ is still a better example to follow than any atheist. For a ideology to be better than any human must really piss off those that fall way short of it.

Side: Christianity
BenWalters(1513) Disputed
5 points

I am glad to see theists embracing that the only logical position to be a theist is from a moral perspective, as you're eventually giving up your position that theism is truth. But does Christianity really strive to promote better morals and ethics, or its own morals and ethics? It supports domestic abuse, racism, torture, homicide, and a vast number of other such horrors.

And your entire moral argument is a straw man. Atheism promotes no moral code because it promotes nothing. That is not to say that atheists have no moral code, simply that it does not come from a crazy belief (that at least 5.5 billion people have wrong - 7 billion total, largest religious group is 1.5 billion).

Side: Atheism
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
3 points

It does not promote any of those things...Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Side: Christianity
shift4101(5) Disputed
2 points

The first claim you made is in no way true. Even if you consider the moral propositions of the bible false, you cannot have any moral propositions without a universal, invariant, immaterial mind from which they are derived. And for that, I apologize Christianity does not suit your specific moral needs. Perhaps if you pray, God will adapt. Plus, I would like NT references for the claims you dropped about what the Bible does/does not support.

Back on track: There are plenty of logical arguments for the existence of God. In fact, one of the best is the TAG, which asks why we should accept logic in the first place? It is strange that it exists; what determines its validity, is it universal, and is it a reliable mode for determining what is true? And Why? Of course, being a Christian I can accept the validity of logic because it is the way God operates intelectually, and being created in his image, I should also operate like him.

Side: Christianity
notmymuse(9) Disputed
0 points

Atheism is just a man made religion which adheres to destroying the of any belief system which is contrary to the atheist's beliefs. Atheism IS an immoral system. Romans 1 verses 28 through 32 states "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder,...."

Side: Christianity
2 points

You are exactly right. I don't see why any person(s) would choose to follow a belief that they have to spend their life defending based on human data. Yes, the ideology is an attribute that just makes some cringe. I find the atheist arguments to be so repetitive. If these Atheists don't believe in God, I don't understand why they take the time to find out why they don't. They must have questions in their own minds.

Side: Christianity
Saurbaby(5578) Disputed
4 points

I don't see why any person(s) would choose to follow a belief that they have to spend their life defending based on human data.

You mean defending evidence that we've found? It's not hard to defend proof.

I find the atheist arguments to be so repetitive.

The same thing could be said about Christians. All I tend to hear from Christians is "It's what the bible says", very repetitive and lacking of evidence.

If these Atheists don't believe in God, I don't understand why they take the time to find out why they don't. They must have questions in their own minds.

Of course people have questions in their minds. Everyone does. And people take the time to discover how things came to be, not to prove that what they think is right. Just to further expand their minds and learn.

Side: Atheism
Pito(27) Disputed
2 points

Stoicism was atheistic and endorsed extremely similar ethics to that of Christianity centuries before Jesus. Too easy!

Side: Atheism
2 points

I love Jesus, so I am on this side .

Side: Christianity
1 point

Amen to those who love Jesus and may we bring more people to know Him.

Side: Christianity
2 points

Thank you .

Side: Christianity
1 point

Can I get another Amen, sister. And please get more of your Christian friends to visit my page as I am new and love the intelligence of a Christian.

Side: Christianity
2 points

Thank you. I will .

Side: Christianity
2 points

i'm not a Christianity but i mean if your a Christianity, you really can't argue with them at all unless your argument is base on on the same subject. kinda of like Street fighting and UFC. different platform.

Side: Christianity
2 points

Science attests to the existence of God, its only a question of which one at this point.

Supporting Evidence: God is proven by Science (www.godandscience.org)
Side: Christianity
ChuckHades(3198) Disputed
0 points

That site you provided is making a whole lotta noise without actually saying anything worthwhile. It all boils down to "humans don't know this, so God did it". I wonder if the author actually knows that we do have two theories of everything already. God has no more gaps left to hide in.

PS: Their use of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is laughably bad. Magic does not solve it.

Side: Atheism
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
2 points

This addresses the idea that God "has no more gaps to hide in."

Supporting Evidence: GOD and science (www.godandscience.org)
Side: Christianity
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
0 points

Magic does not solve it...God is not magic...Just like we are not magic.

Side: Christianity
2 points

1. If God does not exist, Objective Morality does not exist.

2. Objective Morality exists.

C: Therefore, God exists.

Most people already accept the truthfulness of both premises. And, since the argument is logically valid, the conclusion also follows from the premises.

Dispute over P1:

Imagine if God does not exist. Empirically, we have been able to explain phenomena through scientific means which satisfy most people. However, the rigor and agressiveness of atheistic science movements have removed the 'humanity' from being human; there is no blatant reason not to kill another person in cold blood, or play tennis with the decapitated heads of babies. To assume otherwise would be committing a fallacy; after all, we are only the composition of our parts. Killing a human being would be no different from smashing a bug, or hurting the enviroment, or even damaging a rock. Evolutionary Psychology attempts to explain morality through evolutionary means, that is, what ever helps you survive is moral. But this renders it arbitrary in logical debate, as it assumes one "ought" operate in accord with his evolutionary psychology, which is a moral statement that requires one to identify a person as a whole, and not the composition of his parts.

By contrast, if God exists, everyone has a soul, and we can derive our senses of goodness from the way he would have acted towards humans. We would derive our morality from our creator.

Defending P2:

I'm sure a lot of people who are hardcore, internet trolling atheists might just abandon the idea of objective morality all-together to avoid the horrible conclusion of God. Now, I really don't have time for moral relativists, as political discussions immediately turn stale due to the fact no action is truly beneficial to the lives of those affected. But imagine if there were no true "ought" statements. "Ought" we believe science? Of course! It helps us understand creation (or the Universe). "Ought" we think rationally? Why, yes! I would imagine society would love it if we could operate in ways that are predictable and make sense. What I am getting at here is that nobody really operates as if objective morality doesn't exist; they feel bad when they things that they perceive as wrong, and would rather not kill other people even if it means they would benefit themselves. To accept morality is relative is to deny your worldview and succumb to mere animal behavior, devoid of rational. We "ought" to think rationally, and only listen to arguments that are true, not just appealing. If not, why not believe in heaven?

If no P, no Q

Q

Therefore, P

Side: Christianity
2 points

The Christian God loves his people enough to send His Son for us. Its the deepest expression of his love. thats why Jesus says John 3:16- For God so loved the world that he gave his only BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

which means that he gave his one Son to atone for our sins. He handed overhis son as an offering to take our place for our iniquities and shortcomings. This action is consistent with God's personality. it makes sense as to why he would go through all the trouble to save us because he made us in his image for the sole purpose of interaction see Genesis 1:26.

"Your God is so gracious and forgiving he sends people to burn for eternity if they dont belive in him"

His loving personality allows him to forgive any and every sin that is done on earth. some sins in the eyes of men are simply unforgiveable but in the eyes of the Christian God every sin is forgiveable

Side: Christianity
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

A senseless and unneeded torture of his own son is an expression of love?

What is a mortal's sin to such a being as god? Is it truly deserving of a never ending punishment?

Side: Atheism
timber113(796) Disputed
2 points

A senseless and unneeded torture of his own son is an expression of love?

-- casper3912(1160)

I like how you look at the sacrifice of God's son from a pecimistic perspective. If you look at it as senseless torture (which means Jesus endeavor amounted to nothing) then of course you wont see as an expression of love. Let me ask you a question:

How many people do you know are willing to die for you like that?

Im sure you have a very short list. But jesus loved everyone so much he was willing to lower himself and suffer death on the cross. Read Philippians 2:5-11 and it will be put in perspective.

Jesus said it himself when he said the greatest measure of love is to lay down your life for your friends.

What is a mortal's sin to such a being as god? Is it truly deserving of a never ending punishment?

God is higher than us in all ways imaginable so naturally he has a higher sense of morality. I can put it this way: think of a police officer whos job demands a higher sense of morality and a normal civilian. The cop is naturally going to do things a civilian wouldnt, like step in the way of danger, break up dangerous disputes etc. If he didnt you would be disappointed. Wouldnt you be disappointed in god if he didnt have a higher sense of morality. God's morality is so high that you cant meet his standards. But thats he gave us christ as a sin offering so we may be able to live to his standards and be free from sin. One can look at it another way. Im surev everyone is familiar with the thief on the cross story. One got into heaven just by believing. He was ariminal. Did he do anything to deserve heaven Certainly not! BUt jesus was so merciful he said "Today you will be with me in paradise."

Side: Christianity
2 points

Christianity of course. Can't imagine life if I didn't believe in God. Actually I can, it would be hell.

Side: Christianity
2 points

I am neither Christian nor Atheist , but despite I beleive that Christianity is better than Atheism.If there is no place for God in your life , it can not even be callad as a "life".

Side: Christianity
2 points

I have a personal relationship with Christ. I do believe.

Side: Christianity
2 points

I support the O.P. Christianity is a legitimate belief. The Christ/Messiah who came, did fulfill Scriptures by His appearance. While among us, He claimed that the Scriptures spoke of Him, and he claimed to be one with the Father. An Atheist cannot claim that He doesn't exist, but only claim that that they don't believe in Him, or accept Him, and thus deny Him, and that is our free will in action.

Side: Christianity
1 point

I DON'T BELIEVE IN CHRISTIANITY NOR ATHEISM. I AM A MUSLIM, THATS THE BEST RELIGION...

Side: Christianity
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
2 points

Ok, so get on a different debate...The question is Christianity or Atheism there is no third option.

Side: Christianity
qwerty25(14) Disputed
0 points

Actually other religions can take a part in this argument. While not a choice, they can show the weaknesses in either Christianity and atheism.

For instance the argument that there had to be a creator because the earth and humans are too complicated can be questioned with why does it have to be a CHRISTIAN god when it can be other gods.

Side: Atheism
0 points

That's kinda racist coz u said Jews are the best when i could say that being racist is da best bu it int

Side: Christianity
1 point

Oh lol. People to point this out believing in God is called "faith" and we don't need proof to deal with this atheist's. The idea of God is false is your own words, and I don't have to deal with this , whatever you think is your faith so we won't stop you. Both side contradicts each others belief and no one truthfully wins. This is probably a fight between two armies where both doesn't win until the end. Mainly , I support Christianity because of my "faith to God" and your proof that God doesn't exist doesn't change the case or turn it the other way around.

Side: Christianity
1 point

why are we fighting, right now those scientologists are running rampant. We need to come together to fight them

Side: Christianity
1 point

all this debate proves is that the internet is full of conceded, stuck up, narcissistic, atheists who are totally bigoted and intolerant of other peoples beliefs and cant leave people alone to worship or not worship as they chose athieists are biggots plain and simple

Side: Christianity
1 point

Aetheists always say that the reason why people believe in christianity ( or religion) is to cope with otherwise uncopable scenarios like life after death, the issue of salvation and judgement. Similarly Aetheists also use aetheism as a coping mechanism to answer unanswered questions like 'If God is real then why is their so much war in the world?", or " if god is real why do people get away with horrible things?'" or "If God is loving then why does he order mass genocide and wars?" Aetheists have problem with all these unanswered questions and anyone who says they dont is simply lying. i for one can answer these questions but that would take a while. aetheists also believe that god is some bearded sadist in the sky who calls all the shots. first of all i never understand where they get that from because every christian believes God is a spirit who doesnt exist in space or the sky and is capable of manifesting in any form he sees fit. They call God a sadist but they ignore how gracious and forgiving the Bible protrays him as or how just he is He is so just a God that he deals with Israel how he deals with every other nation. i would be more inclined to believe he is a sadist if he dealt with his chosen people biasedly, but unfortunately he does not. Other information on christianity they have is either not consistent with the accepted belief of Christianity or is an unadressed rumour/lie. I for one believe aetheists have a lopsided j1

Side: Christianity
1 point

I am a Christian for I believe there is a just God who will do ultimate justice for the good and bad deeds done here on earth.

Side: Christianity
1 point

I assume everyone on this side of this argument was raised in a Christian home, grow a pair and ask yourself, why do I worship a scruffy sandal wearing cultist.

Side: Christianity

Well though I behave as an atheist certainly I don't forget the principles and norms of Christianity;As this argument has heated up,Its better to conclude that this trend of atheism has not really gained that much ground and it would be anomalous to conceal our religion and say we support atheism.

Side: Christianity
1 point

One of the key component to Christianity is FAITH. Just you because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Gravity, for example, you can't see it, feel it, or hear it, but you know it's there. Faith to Christians is the same way.

Side: Christianity
GenericName(3429) Clarified
1 point

Wait a second, you can't feel gravity?

This is a game changer.

Side: Christianity
1 point

Not believing in God is one of the worst things you could ever do. I'm not saying your a bad person but it's just dumb. I'll give you reasons why:

1. The theory of design.

The theory of design is about with everything that was made, there was a designer. For example: if you saw a house on the wooden house next to the beach, you would know that that house wasn't put together but the waves or the wind. You would (logically and hopefully) know that a person or people took there time to design and build that house. So why do atheists think nobody made the universe. It's a good reason to think that a designer, just like the house, would design and build this beautiful universe.

2. Pascals Wager.

For the debate of God being real, Pascals Wager says that before you die, you need to make a Wager on what's gonna happen. If you believe that God is real but when you die nothing happens then your fine. But if you don't believe in God and when you do die then your kinda screwed. Now think about that. Which one would be the better, more logical choice.

3. The theory of morality.

Everyone knows what morality is. It's the difference between rights and wrong and having morals means we know what's right to do. It's common sense. But without a God, how can morality be possible? According to atheists, after we die nothing happens and since, to them, nothing happens then why would you need morals? With God, we are put on this earth to do what he says so we can go to heaven and what he says is good so he brings us morality. So if your an atheist then morality doesn't even matter because to atheists were just a small spec in the universe so why would it matter to have morals. God gave us morals.

Side: Christianity
1 point

The theory of design

Then who designed the designer? Clearly something as amazing as a god that has the power to create an entire universe is far more complex than an amoeba. If you say god doesn't require a designer then you're using special pleading, which is a logical fallacy. Your comparison of a house is flawed because you're comparing something that we know is designed and we know can't come about via natural processes to something that is a biological organism that is capable of evolving from something simple to something complex via mutation and natural selection. Even if we had conclusive evidence that life was designed, that doesn't tell us any information about who or what the designer is. It definitely doesn't tell us that a specific god did it.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that life was designed by a god. Now let's examine what the designs tell us about that god. Most, if not all, forms on life on this planet have flaws in them, like wisdom teeth in humans that need to be removed, otherwise we have dental problems. There is a whole slew of genetic problems humans have such as harlequin ichthyosis, fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva, treacher-collins syndrome, crouzon syndrome and progeria. If you want to see just how horrible those things are, take a look, just be warned they are pretty gruesome. There are over 14,000 diseases and mental disorders just in humans. Are all of those things part of this gods design? How about all these things? WARNING: The links take you to some graphic content.

· Mosquitos that have infected 700 million people with disease in Africa alone, killing millions of them.

· Kissing bugs which have infected 16 to 18 million people with Chaga’s disease, killing 20,000 of them each year.

· Bot Flies and Mangoworms that embed their larvae into you.

· Smallpox which was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century.

· Porphyria (AKA Vampires Disease)

· Mucocutaneous Leishmaniasis

· Necrotizing Fasciitis

· Kidney Worms

· Blood Sucking Ticks

· Leprosy

· Rabies

· Naegleria Fowleria (AKA The Brain-Eating Amoeba) which gets inside your brain and causes headache, fever, nausea, vomiting, confusion, hallucinations, loss of muscle control, seizures, and eventually death.

So, what do all these things tell us about the designer? They tell us that he is either highly incompetent and his designs have gone horribly wrong or he intentionally designed them that way and is therefore extremely malicious and evil.

http://i.imgur.com/R6fkHit.jpg

Pascals Wager

Pascal's Wager presents a false dichotomy that doesn't take into account all the other gods. There have been hundreds, possibly thousands, of gods invented throughout history. Many of those gods, like the Christian one, go on massive killing sprees when people worship other gods. So, who do you think a god would be more likely to be upset with, someone who doesn't worship any god because they haven't seen any conclusive evidence for their existence, or someone that is worshiping a different god?

http://i.imgur.com/cAGzhp7.png

The theory of morality

Morality is a product of evolution. Let me explain with an example. Lets say we have two groups of people, the selfies and the groupies. The people in the selfies group only look out for themselves. They will lie, cheat, steal, and murder as long as it benefits them in some way. Then we have the groupies; they work together as a group, share responsibilities, and look out for each other. Which of those groups do you think will be more likely to survive, find mates, and have children? The answer is the groupies. By working together they can accomplish more and protect each other, increasing their likelihood of survival. The selfies on the other hand kill each other off, have a harder time finding a mate because who wants to be with a selfish, murderous bastard, and therefore be less likely to have offspring.

"According to atheists, after we die nothing happens and since, to them, nothing happens then why would you need morals?"

Do you want to live in a society where people rape, murder, and steal each other? Of course not, and neither do atheists. We want to live in peace just like the vast majority of people in the world, and the only way to do that is to be peaceful ourselves and hope that people follow our example. Plus we have empathy just like theists do. If the reason you do good things is for a reward in heaven, you're not being moral, you're being greedy. If the reason you don't do bad things is fear of punishment in hell, that's not morality, it's fear. Being moral is doing good regardless of the consequences.

Side: Atheism

Christianity does offer hope in the world. Christianity does tell others to help the poor.

Side: Christianity
-2 points
34 points

Christians often claim that they believe in the existence of God. But that's all there is to it. They believe that God exists, but they don't know. In order to win this debate, they first needs to bear the burden of proof that God exists. To illustrate this, I turn to the words of the celebrated Cambridge philosopher and mathematician, Bertrand Russell. In an article entitled "Is There a God?", Prof. Russell wrote:

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

Atheists would recognise this as Russell's famous Celestial Teapot Argument. But let me ask, "What does it actually mean to 'bear the burden of proof'?" Since Christianity is a form of monotheism, in order to bear the burden of proof, Christians need to:

1. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that God exists.

2. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that there are no logical reasons to subscribe to other forms of theism (i.e. deism, pantheism and the rest).

3. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that there are no logical reasons to subscribe to other forms of monotheism (i.e. mainly Judaism and Islam).

Until and unless she can do this, we must accept that the atheist position is the more rational position.

However, I am not going to stop here. Let me briefly present two arguments that make atheism seem to be the more plausible position vis-a-vis Christianity.

First, I'll present the logical Problem of Evil:

1. If the Judeo-Christian God exists (henceforth referred to as "God"), He possesses the characteristics of omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing and all-wise) and omnibenevolence (perfectly good and morally perfect).

2. If God exists and is omnipotent, he is able to eliminate all evil and suffering.

3. If God exists and is omniscient, he knows about all potential sources and occurrences of evil and suffering.

4. If God exists and is omnibenevolent, he has the absolute desire to eliminate all evil and suffering.

5. Evil and suffering exists.

Ergo,

6. God does not exist.

Next is the evidential form of the Problem of Evil:

1. There exist instances of intense suffering which an omnipotent, omniscient being could have prevented without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.

2. An omniscient, wholly good being would prevent the occurrence of any intense suffering it could, unless it could not do so without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.

Ergo,

3. There does not exist an omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good being.

What are the implications of the Problem of Evil? If Christians want to solve the Problem of Evil, they must deny one of the three characteristics God is said to possess (i.e. omniscience, omnipotence, and perfect goodness). If Christians want to hold that God is good, then they must necessarily assert that God is either not omniscient or not omnipotent. However, the burden of proof is still on the Christian to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is true.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
3 points

Your excess use of words have no bearing and lack proof. It's a good attempt but I find your statement here cumbersome and as text book as one can get. It's amazing how the Bible doesn't require some textbook idiocy to prove correct. Kudos for your attempt. The copy and paste feature is wonderful, isn't it? How about using your own mind once in a while?

Side: Christianity
14 points

Let me take a moment here to expose your stupidity.

Your excess use of words have no bearing and lack proof.

Unjustified assertion.

It's a good attempt but I find your statement here cumbersome and as text book as one can get.

Which has absolutely no bearing on whether my statement is true or otherwise.

It's amazing how the Bible doesn't require some textbook idiocy to prove correct.

A bullshit statement since the Bible isn't even correct in the first place.

The copy and paste feature is wonderful, isn't it?

Unlike you, I actually put some thought into my arguments.

How about using your own mind once in a while?

Coming from a family of top notch lawyers, I am allergic to bullshit but immune to ad hominems. Try harder.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points
shift4101(5) Disputed
2 points

"1. If the Judeo-Christian God exists (henceforth referred to as "God"), He possesses the characteristics of omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing and all-wise) and omnibenevolence (perfectly good and morally perfect).

2. If God exists and is omnipotent, he is able to eliminate all evil and suffering.

3. If God exists and is omniscient, he knows about all potential sources and occurrences of evil and suffering.

4. If God exists and is omnibenevolent, he has the absolute desire to eliminate all evil and suffering.

5. Evil and suffering exists."

I contest premise 4. It does seem at least plausible that there exist morally sufficient reasons for God allowing evil. Alvin Plantinga used the concept of free will, for example, to justify the existence of evil, and most scholarly philosophers are satisfied by his rebuttal.

It is actually up to the atheist to present evidence that suggests it is impossible for God to have morally sufficient reasons for allowing evil, a tall feat, that so far nobody has been able to argue successfully.

Ergo,

6. God does not exist.

Side: Christianity
Cobrax30(22) Disputed
2 points

Christians often claim that they believe in the existence of God. But that's all there is to it. They believe that God exists, but they don't know. In order to win this debate, they first needs to bear the burden of proof that God exists. To illustrate this, I turn to the words of the celebrated Cambridge philosopher and mathematician, Bertrand Russell. In an article entitled "Is There a God?", Prof. Russell wrote:

Ok, first there is no real way of proving God does or does not exist. I'm familiar with the celestial teapot argument, but it's a stupid argument because it assumes that the idea of God is silly. Fact is that you can't prove the non-existence of God... which kind of leaves us at a standstill because so many people claim to feel God in some way.

1. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that God exists.

If I die as a Christian I could potentially go to heaven, if I die as an atheist nothing happens. It makes more logical sense to believe than not to believe provided it doesn't require massive amounts of suffering.

Therefore, shouldn't the burden of proof be placed on proving God doesn't exist?

2. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that there are no logical reasons to subscribe to other forms of theism (i.e. deism, pantheism and the rest).

Now you have moved beyond the idea of atheism and you are agnostic. My thought is that the most logical choice is the one that gives you the best after death options while providing the least requirements during life.

3. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that there are no logical reasons to subscribe to other forms of monotheism (i.e. mainly Judaism and Islam).

I will say this however, 99% of religions are based around the idea that you do X and you get Y. There is a form of Christianity that believes God just gives you heaven based on his own divine choice regardless of human action. Now that is unique.

That said I don't see anything wrong with Judaism or Islam.

First, I'll present the logical Problem of Evil:

1. If the Judeo-Christian God exists (henceforth referred to as "God"), He possesses the characteristics of omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing and all-wise) and omnibenevolence (perfectly good and morally perfect).

Ok

2. If God exists and is omnipotent, he is able to eliminate all evil and suffering.

Ok

3. If God exists and is omniscient, he knows about all potential sources and occurrences of evil and suffering.

Ok

4. If God exists and is omnibenevolent, he has the absolute desire to eliminate all evil and suffering.

This step assumes that your definition of evil and suffering matches that of God.

5. Evil and suffering exists.

Ergo,

6. God does not exist.

Again you are making some assumptions that don't logically fit the situation. You are assuming to know what God considers suffering.

In the Judao-Christian tradition the story of Job is all about human suffering serving God's will. Remember, part of religion is the idea that no matter how much things suck here on earth there is something better awaiting you in death.

1. There exist instances of intense suffering which an omnipotent, omniscient being could have prevented without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.

If there is a God... why would you assume it would act in the same manner as a human? Or even see the world in the same way as humans?

Actually an Omnipotent and Omniscient being with an unlimited lifespan would probably have radically different goals and ways of thinking than a human being.

2. An omniscient, wholly good being would prevent the occurrence of any intense suffering it could, unless it could not do so without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.

Impossible to know what goals or motivations such a being would have.

Ergo,

3. There does not exist an omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good being.

What are the implications of the Problem of Evil? If Christians want to solve the Problem of Evil, they must deny one of the three characteristics God is said to possess (i.e. omniscience, omnipotence, and perfect goodness). If Christians want to hold that God is good, then they must necessarily assert that God is either not omniscient or not omnipotent. However, the burden of proof is still on the Christian to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is true.

God could easily be all three provided his definition of evil doesn't match yours. A great example is the idea that the only thing God considers evil is a failure to recognize the greatness of God, at which point God will choose to punish those in an afterlife. Which leaves the human condition unchanged... and your thesis a giant waste of time.

Anyway... your greatest point is the idea that Religion must prove itself or be rendered invalid. However, since religion technically lies within the realm of myth... not science, it's the other way around.

Side: Christianity
Th3ZViru5(149) Disputed
0 points

I'm not really convinced why Christians need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. They're faith in God is for personal reasons, not to win (or lose) popularity contests.

Secondly, can't that argument work both ways? Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that God doesn't exist? As far as "logical reasons," logical absolutes exist and they:

1.) are conceptual by nature, not physical,

2.) are not dependent upon human minds,

3.) transcend space and time.

The problem with your "logical problem of evil," is that you're assuming balance can exist and be maintained without good OR without evil. The two must stay in constant equilibrium and harmony. Without evil, God wouldn't exist. This argument is false. On the other hand, the problem with your evidential form of the problem of evil is that God, once again, would not exist without evil. God helps those who help themselves - He doesn't hand everything over to us on a silver-platter. No one, not even God, is simply going to carry you through life.

God is all of these things, and yet evil still exists. Why? Because He made us all with free-will. We contribute to evil, not God.

Side: Christianity
pszNicx(7) Disputed
4 points

Christians need to prove god exists because they're making the claim, more specifically, they're making statements on who this god is and how it works, a whole variety of assertions that should be tested. If a swindler makes an outrageous claim, you'd want him/her to back it up, right? Same thing.

Why does it matter that they believe in something that can't be verified? It wouldn't if that belief didn't impact their actions that affect others. False beliefs can encourage people to support legislation or practices that harm other's rights, example: banning gay marriage.

The reason the argument doesn't work the other way for proving god doesn't exist is because it's a null position. Science alone works pretty well at explaining things so there's no reason to introduce an unnecessary concept to the picture.

The rest of the argument is invalid since the concept of good and evil are defined by humans, cultures, and religions. Nature has no such concepts: the sun doesn't care that it's keeping us warm and that earthquake here or there doesn't care that it's killing people. WE define good and evil, without us they mean nothing.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
-5 points
Liber(1728) Disputed
9 points

All atheists believe in evolution

Generalization

which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.

Untrue.

The Bible says atheism is wrong, and the Bible is always right

You cannot use something as a source proving that itself is right. That goes against all the rules of debate and logic.

Some famous atheists have shown they occasionally have doubts about their disbelief, which proves that all atheists really do believe in God.

Nothing a famous person does proves anything for everybody; and doubt by one person does not mean that all fellow doubters are equally unsure.

Everybody who has ever been in the army will tell you that there are no atheists in foxholes. That is, once they are in danger of death, the atheist will strip himself of his irrational disbelief in God, and come to admit he believed in God all along.

This is another generalization.

Communism, which is inherently evil, is founded by atheism, and all atheists are probably secret communists.

I am starting to really think that you don't really believe all this stuff. How else can one explain your idiocy here?

Because we can think of the existence of God, God must obviously exists, and therefore atheists are illogical.

I can think of the existence of a gigantic breast capable of eating up the planet, but that does not mean that there is in existence a gigantic breast capable of eating up the planet.

Everything in the universe shows obvious and undeniable signs that it was created by a mind far superior to our own.

Everything is an awful lot.

no atheists contribute to charitable causes, and all Christians do. This is because of atheist's beliefs in Darwinism.

I am a Christian, and I disbelieve in "charitable causes".

'

I really do not feel like going on any longer. Surely you get my point.

Side: Atheism
Canin88(110) Disputed
7 points

-All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.

Believing in Evolution has nothing to do with morality. Evolution states that we have evolved and ascended from our ancestors. It doesn't say that we should act like our ancestors.

-Atheists try to shift the burden of proof unfairly upon theists (ie, atheists make the wild and unprovable claim that God does not exist, and then unfairly expect us Christians to prove that He DOES exist)

Firstly, atheists just don't accept god as presented by christianity (or any religion for that matter). Christians have to prove that the Christian God exists. Atheists don't have the burden of proof.

-The Bible says atheism is wrong, and the Bible is always right (see: Genesis 1:1, Psalms 14:1, Psalms 19:1, Romans 1:19-20)

The bible is supposedly a book about Jesus and His Teachings written down by man. Man is fallible, thus the bible is fallible.

-Some famous atheists have shown they occasionally have doubts about their disbelief, which proves that all atheists really do believe in God. Of course, no Christian has ever doubted the existence of God.

Examples? Sources? Some Christians have doubted God. (http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/It_is_decided_I_m_gonna_be_an_Atheist)

-Everybody who has ever been in the army will tell you that there are no atheists in foxholes. That is, once they are in danger of death, the atheist will strip himself of his irrational disbelief in God, and come to admit he believed in God all along. Only liberal slimebags like MSNBC report otherwise.

Proof? Sources? Have you personally interviewed each and every person who was/is in the army?

-Communism, which is inherently evil, is founded by atheism, and all atheists are probably secret communists.

Probabilistic comments are not treated as a proper argument.

-Because we can think of the existence of God, God must obviously exists, and therefore atheists are illogical.

This argument is illogical. If you can say that, then I can say 'Because we can thing of the nonexistence of God, God obviously doesn't exist, and therefore theists are illogical.'

-Everything in the universe shows obvious and undeniable signs that it was created by a mind far superior to our own.

The universe is extremely big. There is a chance, how small it may be, that our universe might occur.

-a lot of mass murderers were atheists, and all atheists, having no morality to guide them, are only a bad day away from going on a genocide spree. There have no exactly zero cases on Christian mass murderers throughout all of history.

There are examples of Christian mass murders. Ever heard of the crusades?

-no atheists contribute to charitable causes, and all Christians do. This is because of atheist's beliefs in Darwinism.

Proof? There are charitable atheists. There are some non-charitable Christians. This has no correlation with Darwinism.

-I quote: "The Barna Group found regarding atheism and morality that those who hold to the worldviews of atheism or agnosticism in America were more likely, than theists in America, to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal drug use; excessive drinking; sexual relationships outside of marriage; abortion; cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage; obscene language; gambling; pornography and obscene sexual behavior; and engaging in homosexuality/bisexuality" Despicable.

The Bible states even more immoral ideologies. (http://www.bigissueground.com/atheistground/ash-bibleshocking.shtml)

-atheists don't believe in miracles, although many Christian philosophers disagree.

So?

-atheism cannot explain the origins of the universe, therefore God exists.

This is illogical reasoning.

-Atheists have more mental and physical health problems than Christians. This is attributed to theists having something more to life for. Therefore, God exists.

This is illogical reasoning.

-Friedrich Nietzsche went crazy and was an atheist, therefore atheism drove him insane (although there is an ongoing debate on the matter...)

This is, once again, illogical reasoning. Just because something was X and Y doesn't mean that X caused Y or Y caused X.

-Countries with large numbers of atheists have higher suicide rates, therefore atheism makes you want to kill yourself. Of course they would take the easy way out, not realizing like normal people that God sends suicide cases to hell. Also, developed nations also tend to have higher rates of both atheism and suicide, so we must conclude that technology and wealth are evil.

Sources? Prove that it is not just correlation, but it is causality.

-Sigmund Freud said religious belief was unhealthy, but many doctors think Freud is wrong, therefore atheism is evil.

Just because many people think X is wrong doesn't make X evil.

-many famous atheists tell lies, therefore atheists are deceptive.

Sources? Proof? Have you personally counted how many lies each and every person said AND made a record if they were theist or not? Again, Prove this is causality.

-Fewer people believe now as opposed to x number of years ago (usually around twenty) in evolution, therefore evolutionary theory is wrong and by proxy atheism is wrong, since it's the same thing.

Just how illogical will your reasoning become?

-Some theologians say atheist is on the decline, therefore it is. However, this is no reason to lose caution of the atheist threat!

Not everything theologians say is true. Proof?

-There are a number of anti-atheist blogs (isn't that good to know? )

So? No, that is not good to know.

-there is a pro-atheist bias in the liberal controlled media, but as we know from stated above that atheism is on the decline, this hardly matters.

Proof that atheism is on the decline?

The other arguments, are, like the others, either illogical reasoning or without proof. I don't need or have the time to address and dispute each one of these other arguments.

Side: Atheism
MasterCalvin(10) Disputed
6 points

This is terribly biased :o As a fellow debater earlier replied to this message, your logic is flawed in so many ways. The Bible condemns a lot of things, some of which aren't actually wrong... I am not an atheist, but a catholic... but even a person from the same side as you can tell that your arguments are daily weak D;

Side: Atheism
3 points

All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.

This is a hasty generalisation. Morality is not grounded in religion but the human experience and through interaction between humans within the community and society. And by the way, we are a species in the animal kingdom.

Atheists try to shift the burden of proof unfairly upon theists

How is it unfair? The burden of proof always lies on the claimant.

The Bible says atheism is wrong, and the Bible is always right

Not only is this an unjustified assertion, you are also committing the genetic fallacy.

Some famous atheists have shown they occasionally have doubts about their disbelief, which proves that all atheists really do believe in God.

"Some famous Christians have shown they occasionally have doubts about their beliefs, which proves that all Christians really do not believe in God."

Your argument here fails entirely because your are committing the fallacy of composition.

Everybody who has ever been in the army will tell you that there are no atheists in foxholes. That is, once they are in danger of death, the atheist will strip himself of his irrational disbelief in God, and come to admit he believed in God all along. Only liberal slimebags like MSNBC report otherwise.

Excuse me. I served 2 years in the Commando unit, the Singapore equivalent of the Marines.

Communism, which is inherently evil, is founded by atheism, and all atheists are probably secret communists.

Communism cannot be inherently evil because it is a metaphysical concept.

Because we can think of the existence of God, God must obviously exists, and therefore atheists are illogical.

Wrong. Existence is not a predicate.

Everything in the universe shows obvious and undeniable signs that it was created by a mind far superior to our own.

Unjustified assertion.

a lot of mass murderers were atheists, and all atheists, having no morality to guide them, are only a bad day away from going on a genocide spree.

There have been Christian mass murderers as well.

no atheists contribute to charitable causes

Really? I think you'll find yourself wrong there. I have donated to Oxfam and the Red Cross. They actually do something to help the poor. And I'd rather donate my money to an established organisation where I can see that it has been put to good use rather than donating it to a church for renovations.

"The Barna Group found regarding atheism and morality that those who hold to the worldviews of atheism or agnosticism in America were more likely, than theists in America, to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal drug use; excessive drinking; sexual relationships outside of marriage; abortion; cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage; obscene language; gambling; pornography and obscene sexual behavior; and engaging in homosexuality/bisexuality"

Christians have been equally guilty, if not more so, of most of these crimes.

Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs."

Nope. Wrong again. There is nothing "magical" about cosmological processes. In fact, one of those who confirmed the Big Bang theory, Alan Guth, is an atheist.

atheists don't believe in miracles, although many Christian philosophers disagree.

Why should anyone believe in miracles?

atheism cannot explain the origins of the universe, therefore God exists.

The Big Bang. And therefore, God does not exist. This is a false dilemma.

Atheists have more mental and physical health problems than Christians. This is attributed to theists having something more to life for. Therefore, God exists.

Your premises do not logically lead to the conclusion. And furthermore, at least half of the top 10 fattest cities in America are predominantly Christian cities or at least, cities with a majority Christian population.

Friedrich Nietzsche went crazy and was an atheist, therefore atheism drove him insane

Again, fallacy of composition.

Countries with large numbers of atheists have higher suicide rates, therefore atheism makes you want to kill yourself.

The last I checked, suicide mass murderers were religious fanatics, including Christians (e.g. Andres Brevick)

Of course they would take the easy way out, not realizing like normal people that God sends suicide cases to hell.

So, a God that doesn't exist is sending people to hell?

Also, developed nations also tend to have higher rates of both atheism and suicide, so we must conclude that technology and wealth are evil.

No proof whatsoever that God exists.

Sigmund Freud said religious belief was unhealthy, but many doctors think Freud is wrong, therefore atheism is evil.

Really? And these doctors are? The last I checked, most psychologists still emulate Freud's methods of psychoanalysis.

many famous atheists tell lies, therefore atheists are deceptive.

By saying that the Bible is true and indoctrinating children, Christians are already lying everyday.

Fewer people believe now as opposed to x number of years ago (usually around twenty) in evolution, therefore evolutionary theory is wrong and by proxy atheism is wrong, since it's the same thing.

What is "x number of years ago"? If you can't even be specific in your premises, then they are not true to believe. And atheism and evolution are not synonyms.

Non-Christians are more likely to believe in silly superstitions, like palm reading and astronomy (note: Non-Christian = atheist). Christians believe only in the cold, hard logical of the world around them.

Non-Christians include people of other religious faiths. And I haven't met one Muslim or Hindu that believes in palm reading. Conversely, Muslims and Hindus can also say that Christian beliefs are superstitious as well, and indeed many of them do.

Some theologians say atheist is on the decline, therefore it is. However, this is no reason to lose caution of the atheist threat!

-There are a number of anti-atheist blogs (isn't that good to know? )

-there is a pro-atheist bias in the liberal controlled media, but as we know from stated above that atheism is on the decline, this hardly matters.

And your point is?

Causes of atheism (I quote): moral depravity, rebellion, superficiality, error, state churches, poor relationship with father, division in religion, learned times, peace, and prosperity, negative experiences with theists, scientism.

All wrong. Atheism is a result of logical, rational people, looking at the evidence, and concluding that Christianity is a flawed belief.

atheists question why evil exists since God is good, but don't ask why good exists if God isn't real.

Which still doesn't answer the Problem of Evil.

early scientists were Christian, therefore Christianity owns a monopoly on science and atheists are not allowed to say there is discrepancy between the beliefs in the two.

No proof that God exists.

Sir Francis Bacon said he'd rather belief in any silly old legend then believe that God doesn't exist

And that is Sir Fracis's personal opinion. I can quote many other scientists and philosophers who have no religious convictions and are strongly opposed to the Christian conception of God.

Some Christian apologists have problems with the beliefs of Bertrand Russell

And so?

Creation scientists tend to win creation-evolution debates

And so?

Notable atheists have converted to Christianity. The reverse never happens.

Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, George Carlin, Christopher Hitchens, myself, and the list goes on.

A poll found these results =

Position: This group does not at all agree with

my vision of American society: I would disapprove if my child wanted

to marry a member of this group: Atheist 39.6% 47.6%

Therefore, the majority of normal people clearly know atheism is evil.

Argumentum ad populum.

atheists criticism of the Bible can't be trusted because, I quote: "a thorough understanding of the Bible -- and this would actually apply to any complex work from any culture -- requires specialized knowledge, and a broad range of specialized knowledge in a variety of fields.... Not even most scholars in the field can master every aspect"

And ditto for religious studies. Thus, theologians can't be trusted as well.

The Bible is still loved by millions, read by millions, and studied by millions.

And so is Harry Potter, the Twilight saga, Artemis Fowl, Roald Dhal, Enid Blyton, Shakespeare, Tennyson, Lord Byron, Oscar Wilde, etc.

atheists make bad arguments on the internet, says Christian apologist.

And so?

atheists try to convert young people to atheism over the internet. Christians, of course, never stoop to such behavior.

No, they stoop even lower by threatening sick people on their death beds with fire and brimstone.

Nearly a quarter or a third of philosophy professors are theists, therefore, I quote: "God is not 'dead' in academia; he returned to life in the 1960's and is now alive and well in his last academic stronghold, philosophy departments."

And the other three quarter or two-thirds are atheists, and so if we are going to appeal to "majority wins", then atheism is the default intellectual position.

atheists do not really exist, they just pretend that they don't believe in God.

Unjustified assertion.

atheism brought upon the French Revolution, one of the most evil events of all of history.

Unjustified assertion. And, Christians brought about many of the most evil events in all of history, such as the Inquisitions, the Crusades, etc.

atheists make up a small percentage of the world population, therefore it is wrong.

Argumentum ad populum.

a lot of famous people said bad stuff about atheists

And many famous people said bad stuff about Christians. It works both ways ;)

Side: Atheism
10 points

Notmymuse,

Give me one logical reason to believe Christianity. Just one.

I have yet to see one gad damn shred of evidence for Christianity. I have also seen mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Once you have discredited ALL evidence against Christianity, create an argument for Christianity with empirical fact (or a damn solid priori argument).

Once you have done this, disprove ALL logical arguments against Christianity.

Once you have done this, disprove all other religions.

-

Until such a time that you have done ALL of these things, it is illogical to believe in this bible bullshit.

Side: Atheism
norincomak90(24) Disputed
3 points

Give me one logical reason to believe in atheism. Oh, better yet tell me what I would gain from believing in atheism!

Side: Christianity
4 points

"Playboy: Has no religion, in your estimation, ever offered anything of constructive value to human life?

Ayn Rand: Qua religion, no - in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason. But you must remember that religion is an early form of philosophy, that the first attempts to explain the universe, to give a coherent frame of reference to man's life and a code of moral values, were made by religion, before men graduated or developed enough to have philosophy. And, as philosophies, some religions have very valuable moral points. They may have a good influence or proper principles to inculcate, but in a very contradictory context and, on a very - how should I say it? - dangerous or malevolent base: on the ground of faith."[Playboy interview with Ayn Rand]

Also, one does not "belief" atheism. Atheism is the lack of belief, or for the more intelligent the recognition that logical reasoning is the medium of knowledge and that which cannot or isn't testable or reasonable cannot be considered valid.

Side: Atheism
2 points

That's just it, they can give a real logical reason, my friend in Christ. And they can't give any solid proof of what any person would gain in believing in atheism. Glad to see that someone else believes in the only real God - Jesus Christ. Amen, brother.

Side: Christianity
Apollo(1606) Disputed
2 points

Give me one logical reason to believe in atheism.

This shows how little you know about the subject. Atheism needs defend nothing as it asserts nothing (Thanks yet again to ThePyg for enlightening me). Christianity is making a claim (that that the Judeo-Christian god of classical theism exists). The Burden of proof is on you. You have done nothing to prove your point.

tell me what I would gain from believing in atheism!

I don't know. This is irrelevant. If you want a feel good, lovy dovy religion to believe in just to make yourself feel better about not accomplishing anything meaningful in life, fine. But know that it is BS. And Christianity is not a loving religion. An omni-benevolent god that massacres innocent children?! That is a loving god? Wow.

Side: Atheism
Liber(1728) Disputed
1 point

Give me one logical reason to believe in atheism.

This statement is without sense. You could reiterate it as:

Give me one logical reason to disbelieve in theism.

Side: Christianity
1 point

Atheism leans towards reasoning. You would first of not loss cash a church, you would have more time, you would open your eye's and see the pain that your upposed God caused...

Side: Christianity
notmymuse(9) Disputed
0 points

I am sorry you are a close-minded person. All of the questions you asked are all in the pages of the Bible. If you have ever picked the Bible up and read it, you would see what I say is true. It's impossible for anyone to discredit all aspects and evidence of any belief so you are asking an inhumane task.

Side: Christianity
notmymuse(9) Disputed
0 points

If you are looking for evidence of something you can't just accept certain evidence and deny all other evidence just because it's not the evidence YOU want. Also, you can't tell the evidence what to do and only except the evidence if it does what YOU want. For example: Lets say that my brother was outside mowing the grass. All of a sudden he bursts through the front door and announces that there is a snake in the middle of the yard. When looking for proof that what my brother is saying is true I must go look at the evidence provided. I can't say, "I don't believe you. The only way I will believe that there is a snake in the yard is if it comes into the house and shows itself to me." That's not only illogical it's just plain dumb.

Even if God did appear before you in blazing glory, would you believe he existed or would you consider it a hallucination of some sort or a trick played on you? How would you know? Simply put, the criteria demanded by Atheists for proof that God exists puts a requirement on logic that is not realistic.

In other words, are you OBJECTIVELY examining evidence that is presented or are you just denying it because it isn't scientific or because it isn't what YOU want? Granted, objectivity is difficult for all people, but are you being as objective as you can or do you have a presupposition that God does not exist or that the miraculous cannot occur? If you have a presupposition, then you cannot objectively examine the evidence. Therefore, the presuppositions you hold regarding the miraculous may prevent you from recognizing evidence for God's existence. If so, then God becomes unknowable to you and you have forced yourself into an atheistic/agnostic position. Finally, If you assume that science can explain all phenomena then there can be no miraculous evidence ever submitted as proof. Again since it is impossible to know everything, especially those things that happen outside of our limited space-time continuum, then you are simply making an assumption which is irrelevant and illogical.

Side: Christianity
Apollo(1606) Disputed
2 points

If you are looking for evidence of something you can't just accept certain evidence and deny all other evidence just because it's not the evidence YOU want.

I know. I accept ALL forms of evidence. Sadly, the bullshit bible isn't fact by any stretch of the word.

Lets say that my brother was outside mowing the grass. All of a sudden he bursts through the front door and announces that there is a snake in the middle of the yard. When looking for proof that what my brother is saying is true I must go look at the evidence provided. I can't say, "I don't believe you. The only way I will believe that there is a snake in the yard is if it comes into the house and shows itself to me." That's not only illogical it's just plain dumb.

What a terrible analogy. I will gladly accept that there is a snake, even walk outside, but you have to show me the snake. There is no snake (HAHA...UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THE BULLSHIT BIBLE IN WHICH CASE SNAKES CAN TALK!).

Even if God did appear before you in blazing glory, would you believe he existed or would you consider it a hallucination of some sort or a trick played on you?

This has never happened. Ever.

Simply put, the criteria demanded by Atheists for proof that God exists puts a requirement on logic that is not realistic.

All I ask is that you give even a shred of evidence. You have given none.

In other words, are you OBJECTIVELY examining evidence that is presented or are you just denying it because it isn't scientific

Both. Not only is not scientific, science CONTRADICTS the bullshit bible.

but are you being as objective as you can or do you have a presupposition that God does not exist or that the miraculous cannot occur?

HA! You were born a Christian. This statement invalidates your own beliefs. And no, I don't have a predisposition to atheism. I'm not even an atheist.

Finally, If you assume that science can explain all phenomena

It has not yet. Regardless, this is the God of the Gaps fallacy.

there can be no miraculous evidence ever submitted as proof.

You are right. If there is no evidence pointing to divine intervention, there is no logical reason to believe it. Regardless, miracles aren't evidence for the bible, nor even god.

it is impossible to know everything

HAHA! The Judeo-Christian god is supposedly omniscient. You are contradicting your religion's beliefs. So if you are saying omniscience is not possible, your god doesn't exist.

especially those things that happen outside of our limited space-time continuum, then you are simply making an assumption which is irrelevant and illogical.

God of the Gaps. You are saying a lack of evidence for your God is evidence for your god. That makes no sense.

Side: Atheism
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
0 points

You have yet to see because you have never looked with an open mind, or even looked at all. See my link in my other post on here.

Side: Christianity
Apollo(1606) Disputed
2 points

What your little link said was that homosexuality is not a hereditary trait. That is quite obvious. Straight parents have given birth to gay children.

Watch.
Side: Atheism
5 points

Christianity conflicts with historical, archaeological, astronomical, biological, and many other forms of evidence. It denies rational & impartial common sense. Its teachings, written by an all powerful, all knowing, creator of the universe, are filled with contradictions. The arguments for Christianity just don't hold ground (bar one or two, and those are close). Atheism is not perfect, but it is the more logical position of the two.

Side: Atheism

I choose logic over false hope.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points

How can you believe in logic without any hope in your life? How can you live a life without hope? I don't believe you really understand what you just said.

Side: Christianity
1 point

I believe you don't understand what you said...

Side: Atheism

Christianity is perhaps the most vile ideal to poison the minds of men. It's uses, motives, and fictional stories are quite plainly immoral.

(http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/religion.html)

(http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/whynotchristian.html)

(http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/ 3956.Christopher_Hitchens)

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points

The biggest difference between Christians and atheists is their belief on th character of God. This is the core dispute. Atheists have an inability to to comprehend just how holy God is. I recommend you read The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul and then get back with me.

Side: Christianity
2 points

" their belief on th character of God."

The evil character of your fictional deity?

"This is the core dispute"

No it isn't, unless you mean within the context of this particular debate. The primary issue is whether or not an unjustified assertion can be considered possible or not. I contest that by all logical reasoning it can not.

" I recommend you read The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul and then get back with me."

How dare you give me material to analyze when you disregard the multiple sources I have presented to you. You have disputed none of them. Also, I care not for your feeble attempts to justify the pure evil exhibited by your deity in your fiction book, I care more for dealing with relevant debate(like the before mentioned issue).

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points
ricedaragh(2500) Disputed
0 points

Shockofgod, is an idiot, he blatantly ignores the problem with his own question "what proof is there that atheism is accurate and correct?"

Well, why does disbelief of something unverified need proof? It is by it's definition a stance to logically take in the absence of proof.

Can you prove that Aunicornism is accurate and correct? No, but you are an Aunicornist.

In the same vain, can prove that Hinduism is incorrect and inaccurate? I'm guessing the answer to that would be no as well.

Also, I'd not pay too much attention to those that disable commenting on their youtube vids.

Side: Atheism
3 points

Oh no, did I ask the great question that atheists can't stand to hear?

Which question is that now? The debate title assumes that Christianity is the opposite to Atheism, I'm sure there's a few Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc, that would disagree.

Perhaps the negative position may be that the term "atheism" is incorrect?

Why?

The argument that a person cannot be a christian because of his or her flaws is also quite weak.

Has anybody made this argument here?

Christianity will stand the test of time as God is the one and the only

Christianity has already failed the test of time, logic has won.

Scientists make scientific errors all of the time

You are assuming that an Atheist believes with faith everything that a scientist says, and that science is somehow an Atheist doctrine. This is a false assumption.

If a scientist makes an error, which logically they always will, it is the job of the next to work on correcting that. If there were no errors there would be no science, but I'd rather be a round earth theorist than a flat earth theorist, even though both of these stances are wrong, one is evidently closer to the truth.

Jesus Christ has never made a mistake and prophecies in the Bible have been and are still being fulfilled today.

On what authority do you make a claim such as this? Which prophecies are being fulfilled?

God has been a gracious Father to provide both the atheist and christian the solid evidence of His truth.

Such as?

Side: Atheism
Air1(36) Disputed
0 points

Your God is so gracious and forgiving he sends people to burn for eternity if they dont belive in him. He so so Gracious to starve thousands of children, and lets not forget how nice he was to give us Cancr and AIDS and how it ruin's lives.

No lets just turn a blind eye to all that. Even if we do though, there is murder, rape, torcure, and dont fucking say that its mostly atheisits who do it. I dont care who does. If your God is all mighty let him do something.

Tell me why he kills innocent children, tell me why he lets us kill each other for personal gain, tell me why he puts all his beloved children though so much pain.

And if you say it is a test. Then how is small child under the age of 4, who was raped, slashed, and killed ment to belive that this God is a good God, a forgiving God, a ever Mercifull God...

Oh no... did i ask the question you didnt want to hear...

Side: Atheism
openx(30) Disputed
3 points

Good afternoon, I was reading through your post and felt compelled to comment. First of all God has great mercy and compassion, you may not see it around you now but it is there. What you are seeing all around you is the result of war (1 Peter 5:7-9 8.Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour); Just as God is real so is our enemy. That enemy (Satan) does not want you happy, healthy, in love, or in heaven; he wants you in Hell.

All the crimes that you list here rape, murder, torture, etc. these are the crimes men and not of God. God has given us free will and we miss use it all the time, the free will we abuse is yet another indication of his love. God wants from us what we want from each other, simply Love, that’s all just love. The catch is he wants us to love him because we want to not because we have to. If God forced you to do anything you would no longer be free you would become a slave; that’s not what God wants.

Remember God does not want you in Hell, and does not send you there; if you end up in Hell it will the Sin of unbelief that lands you there. God built you a bridge to heaven through Jesus. All the hard part is done for you all you have to do is ask for forgiveness, and you will be forgiven and Heaven will be your home when this life is done.

Side: Christianity
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
2 points

"Your God is so gracious and forgiving he sends people to burn for eternity if they dont belive in him"

Get back to me on that one once you read James.

Side: Christianity
2 points

I will be happy to answer, you see, when natural disasters kill a human being the chances of him going to heaven are very high. Stomach cancer is very painful and again the chances of you going to heaven are high. Remember, we believe that in the end, there will be justice. Little kids who die have a 100% chance of going to heaven. Now don't tell me I can't prove myself because your argument is IF there was a God, we are not discussing his existence, we are discussing his justice.

Side: Christianity
ricedaragh(2500) Clarified
2 points

Why is this a dispute to my post ?

Side: Christianity
notmymuse(9) Disputed
1 point

Yes, God has to have this wrath. God is a jealous God and wants no God before man except Him. It's surely worth it - to sacrifice living in idolatry and to be obedient to the Almighty for eternity with Him where there will be no more hurting, no more pain. He doesn't starve children, all of this is a result of man's free will and much of it is a result of the enemy being able to dictate man's life. As far as disease, we may not always understand each and every thing, one thing is for sure - God's plan is always best. I don't turn a blind eye to anything and I used to battle with the very same questions. I prayed and still pray for more wisdom. If you only read the Bible, all the wisdom is there. Prayer is essential as God will draw closer to those who pray. The horrendous crimes you speak of are committed by those whom are demon possessed or opressed. It has nothing to do with God. He doesn't allow any evil, he gave us free will. We can choose to live obedient to Him or to follow the plan of satan. We will all give account for what our choices in life are. We can be forgiven if we repent - which means to turn away from sin. Yes, we may stumble but God knows your heart. As far as what you say about the child something may have happened to, well - satan is the god of the air here. Perhaps you should hold him accountable for much of this evil. God is merciful and always will be. You didn't say anything I didn't want to hear.

Side: Christianity
1 point

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear, Ephesians 6:5

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
-1 points

Which question is that now? The debate title assumes that Christianity is the opposite to Atheism, I'm sure there's a few Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc, that would disagree.

I can't believe you are asking me what question I am asking. No other person had a hard time understanding my debate question. Please refer to the debate question. This topic is between atheists and Christians. I could write a separate topic between Christians and Muslims, etc. Please stay on topic here.

Why?

Just take this simple test. http://ecclesia.org/truth/atheist.html

You are pulling it out and attempting to.

Christianity has already failed the test of time, logic has won.

Christianity has and will stand the test of time as your "logic" will be crying out to God to give you one more chance. Get yourself right with God now before it's too late.

So now you are saying scientists will always make an error. Of course they will, because they are humans. But Jesus Christ makes no mistake. As far as your earth theorist comment, that just gave me the best morning chuckle and I thank you for that.

Which prophecies are being fulfilled?"

Here is a link with just ten of the most recent. http://www.therefinersfire.org/recent_prophecy.htm

Side: Christianity
3 points

this is my big problem with christianity: why is it about belief. there have been horrible people who are believers. what about wonderful people who do great things for the world and are atheists. is it fair to punish them for not knowing what the nature od reality is??? I AM an atheist and im a good person. the idea that a mere belief difference can seal ones fate is beyond preposterous, its madness!!

Side: Atheism
3 points

god aint flipppin real, so get over it u dumb belivers of god

Side: Atheism
3 points

christians are also fun to lawl at because they waste half of their sunday going to church. What a waste!!!! HAHAHA

Side: Atheism
3 points

I'm not really convinced why Christians need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. They're faith in God is for personal reasons, not to win (or lose) popularity contests.

Secondly, can't that argument work both ways? Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that God doesn't exist? As far as "logical reasons," logical absolutes exist and they:

1.) are conceptual by nature, not physical,

2.) are not dependent upon human minds,

3.) transcend space and time.

The problem with your "logical problem of evil," is that you're assuming balance can exist and be maintained without good OR without evil. The two must stay in constant equilibrium and harmony. Without evil, God wouldn't exist. This argument is false. On the other hand, the problem with your evidential form of the problem of evil is that God, once again, would not exist without evil. God helps those who help themselves - He doesn't hand everything over to us on a silver-platter. No one, not even God, is simply going to carry you through life.

God is all of these things, and yet evil still exists. Why? Because He made us all with free-will. We contribute to evil, not God.

Side: Atheism
SecuritronX(106) Disputed
3 points

"I'm not really convinced why Christians need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. They're faith in God is for personal reasons, not to win (or lose) popularity contests."

Provided faith remains in a personal domain, no justification, proof, or evidence should be required; I am in agreement here. The problem comes when such beliefs serve as grounds for initiatives, laws, or actions which have very real and tangible effects on others who may not share in them. In these situations, such beliefs should be subject to scrutiny, and require some degree of justification, proof, or evidence.

"The problem with your "logical problem of evil," is that you're assuming balance can exist and be maintained without good OR without evil. The two must stay in constant equilibrium and harmony. Without evil, God wouldn't exist."

The "Problem of Evil" doesn't serve as proof of God's non-existence, but rather that certain popular claims of God's properties are incompatible with each other and known reality. It forces one to discount at least one of the claims that God is omni-benevolent, omnipotent, or omniscient in order to answer it (which you have done here by discarding His omnipotence).

You assert that good cannot exist without evil, and that both must maintain a certain balance. Would you consider this to be a universal law? One which governs all possible planes of existence? If so, and God is subject to this universal law, He cannot, by definition, be omnipotent.

Also, if God is truly the creator of the universe, and of all planes of existence, it stands to reason He is also the creator of all universal laws which govern said existence. Why make such a law to begin with? An omnipotent being should be capable of shaping the fundamental laws of the universe in anyway they saw fit. If this being is omni-benevolent as well as omnipotent, it seems contradictory they would create a universal law which not only allows evil to exist, but deems it necessary to exist. It's also paradoxical that God's existence could rely on a rule of His own creation.

"God is all of these things, and yet evil still exists. Why? Because He made us all with free-will. We contribute to evil, not God."

What if it could be scientifically argued (and someday even proven) that free-will (as we think of it anyway) didn't actually exist?

Side: Christianity
Radnor(26) Clarified
3 points

"If this being is omni-benevolent as well as omnipotent, it seems contradictory they would create a universal law which not only allows evil to exist, but deems it necessary to exist."

This takes care of omni-benevolent. Unless of course Dani's point is evil is proof of God's benevolence, given that it's a critical component of our exercise of free-will. This begs why he would punish us for exercising it in the first place. Certainly to the degree that the entire human race is cursed to be born in sin for one mistake of being tempted by knowledge. This seems like teaching a child about the dangers of fire by having her hold her hand over a match for a moment to see how it can hurt, vs burning the hand away altogether. All in the name of love.

"It's also paradoxical that God's existence could rely on a rule of His own creation."

This should cover omniscient...I mean, if He knows everything, He would certainly know that!

Side: Christianity
3 points

It is ignorant and idiotic to think that god exist. Any other argument is completely invalid.

Side: Atheism
3 points

Atheism; I need at least some evidence before I can believe in magic.

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

How about if you find yourself in the fire of Hell unable to escape, dying in the fire and frying like an eternal sausage? Will that make you believe God is in control? Probably not......

So how about if you are pulled up from Hell to appear as a criminal before the Judge, and He is Jesus, and all of your sins are shown openly in front of everybody proving your guilt?....your whole life flashing not only before your own eyes, but openly in front of everybody else's eyes.......so everybody knows you are guilty and not worthy to be in Heaven? Will that make you believe? Maybe for a minute of two, but when you are cast away into the Lake of Fire, you surely will deny it all and say it's wrong for you to be left in Hell.......

and when God gets what he deserves from you, to be honored as your creator, and at the name of Jesus your knees bow in the fire of Hell, and your tongue says "Jesus Christ is Lord", against your will, and then you return to your feet or whatever you feel like doing when you can only burn in Hell.....then will you believe?

Maybe a little? Probably not....you will probably still say like you are saying now, IT CAN"T BE TRUE!!!! I'M DEAD AND I CAN'T EXIST!!!!! THIS CAN'T BE REAL!!!!!!!!

You'll just have to wait and see, won't you, fool?

Side: Christianity
3 points

If god loves everyone then y does he hate gays and the bible is just a book, have you ever wondered that the one cardinal who translated it changed some things to make "god" look good

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Somebody needs to change things to make you look good, because you look like you are full of dirt.

Side: Christianity
3 points

One thing no one ever mentions. Everyone says Jesus was fair, he healed, he was, Racist? All you Bible lovers out there, all you christians, not even half of you have ever read the Bible, and if you had, you would see that Jesus refused to teach certain people because of their ethnicity. Why only the Jews. If this truly was the son of God (God having created all men in his own image) then why so prejudiced. I'm not even going to mention the fact that God clearly doesn't exist. Just a man made thing. If a massive comit hit the earth and killed off all man kind, no one would be around to contemplate God. He is just a figment of peoples imagination. He, the mentalists imagination, offers false hope. Mankind made up religions. Check out any other religious debates, i'm sure to have had a say (recent ones) God, Religion or anything else of this sort does no good to humanity. Or any other species of animal. Islam, they slit the throats of millions of animals every year for Allah. Nice isn't it. NO! This shitey love affair all you religious people ave is stupid. And the sooner you realize that, the better.Sure, i will respect your views, If an intelligent man comes up to me and starts talking about God, i will listen, i will be polite. I just hate it when they are in your face with all the "Repent!" and "God will smite you!" It's just so ridiculous!

Side: Atheism
3 points

This debate presents a false dichotomy in which the only options are christian or atheism. Shouldn't it be "theism or atheism or other"?

Side: Atheism
3 points

The greatest reason to find any given deity unreasonable is that you can replace it with one who has lied to humanity about literally everything it says, and we wouldn't be the wiser.

What makes it even weaker is that you can also replace it with a series of lies of humans or hallucinations.

There is no a single prophecy in the Bible, and certainly none that have come true.

Side: Atheism
3 points

I think it's safe to say ™ and/or a huge majority of people who identify themselves as Christians are merely people who adopted the culture they were brought in and that culture included religion. That said that big group of people do not strictly follow the bible for instance in a big city such as new york I believe it would be near impossible to find one practicing Christian who doesn't cut his hair, doesn't wear two different cloth fibers, and all the other doctrine that most Christians say they abide by so it's only the extremely fundamentalists that are true Christians if you think about it that way. So why isn't ever Christian that faithful? Because deep down all of those people have doubt and/or a sliver of acceptance about the reality of the world we live in. You simply can't live a True Christian lifestyle and not back track on a lot Rights, Liberties, luxuries, and freedoms that this world holds. Christianity is just one religion among hundreds and even in Europe they have increasingly have non-religious people become the majority when they were the country who brought the Christian religion to America in the First place and Created the Church of England to allow divorces. So to end, with the passage of time even a religion you may hold dear whether it's Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, or Islam the world will change, grow, and become more educated to that absurdity of it all.

Side: Atheism
3 points

Religion in the past has caused many wars. It encourages racism , sexism and homophobia. It is something that gives us prejudice. It makes us hate one another. the time has come to put a stop to it.

Side: Atheism
3 points

I find it funny how Xtians are always talking about God and the bible and Jesus and " His Truth " and etc etc as if they heard it themselves. But, lets be honest. You've never seen God. You have read a book that has been transcribed about 100 times or more into a hundred languages, back and forth and back and forth to where the real meaning (if there even WAS one) has been long gone.

Okay, but not only that, I just find it so silly to have an imaginary friend past the age of say, 7. I remember, when I was 4 I had an imaginary friend. His name was Steve. My mom said she came into the living room one day, and there I was, plain as day, talking to Steve. "Who's that?" My mom asked, --- " Oh, that's Steve, my friend. " I replied. My mom couldn't see Steve, so she figured, this must be an imaginary friend.

Thing is, I only kept Steve for about a year. Then I let go of him. That's what you Christian's gotta do. Let go of your imaginary friend. God doesn't save lives. People save lives. God doesn't give you money. You earn money. God doesn't patrol space, NASA does. So, get a grip and come to your senses.

I am Atheist because I believe in facts, not fiction.

And if you say Xtianity or the Bible is " fact ", you're wrong. Every word in the bible or in your religion is based on 'faith' which is just another word for fiction. Faith begins when fact cannot be found.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Have you even read the Bible? Clearly you don`t understand the practices of religion and you argue that there is no truth about it wherein religion does not revolve only on facts. Its teachings help us put ourselves in our place. Keep in mind that some people live in faith . You just stereotype Christians because you don`t understand their practices.

Side: Christianity
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are atheist because you believe you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell, and if you keep on insisting you have that right you are in for an eye opener you won't like..in fact, you will like it less then than you do now, because now you have some comforts outside of Hell.

Side: Christianity
0 points

Are you Christian?

Side: Atheism
3 points

I'm Christian and very religious, but if the description of this argument is the qualifying factor, I'm going with Atheism. God isn't Christian.

Side: Atheism
3 points

I'm sad to see the way this turned out. With not so little respect and so much spamming. I choose atheism over a Christianity because their is not enough evidence to soothe my curiosity. Christianity raises too many questions that it never answers.

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Oh hogwash. You have decided you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell, so your curiosity is dead.......or it's only going to be satisfied by the fire of Hell, however you want to say it.

You decided you have the answers, and the answer cannot be satisfactory, and that's good enough for you since you believe you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell.

Side: Christianity
3 points

Christianity: belief in rape, genocide, hell fire, unscientific claims, superstition, eternal torture, pedophilia, incest, matricide, infanticide, bestiality, talking donkeys, talking snakes, etc

Atheism: the rejection of these claims based on logic, observation, and common sense

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are committing your own suicide, and that is a scientific fact. Watch, I can prove it. Go look in the mirror and there's your proof.

Side: Christianity
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Atheism is when a fool says in his heart, "there is no God", and believes they have the undeniable right to exist outside of Hell.

Side: Christianity
3 points

Did i also mention that christianity condones slavery? If jot I'm sorry

Side: Atheism
3 points

No one ever said science is PERFECT. That's the difference between Religion and Science, Science admits it doesn't have all the answers while Religion is SO dogmatic enough to not even recognise FACTS. And even just what TRUTH really stands for.

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Can you recognize the fact that you are making a stupid statement in ignorance here?

Side: Christianity
2 points

I find most religions absolutely ridiculous and illogical, the only people who follow them are those who were brainwashed in childhood and really have no individual thought process. Most of the followers at least. Then there are theists who will twist ANY logic to fit their views. They're intelligent ones that you have to watch out for ;)

I'm not an atheist by any means, but I'd rather call myself an atheist than a Christian.

It allows for more logic in my mind.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
1 point

Well atheism is a religion so basically you just called yourself illogical and ridiculous.

Side: Christianity
Saurbaby(5578) Disputed
1 point

... Can you not read?

I said in my debate I'm not atheist. I said I was agnostic. I also said MOST religions.

I'm not a religious person at all. I call myself agnostic because it is the easiest way to describe how I feel about religion.

You are obviously the ridiculous one for not properly reading my argument. lol

Side: Atheism
2 points

Eh, Atheism is a pretty cool guy. Makes my logic work and doesn't afraid of anything.

Side: Atheism
notmymuse(9) Disputed
2 points

Atheism may work for you right now but in the grand scheme of things, it gets you no where. There is a better option and that is Christianity.

Side: Christianity
Warlin(1212) Disputed
6 points

Well my understanding is, what with how most Christians work, considering what their messiah did, Jesus'll forgive me for all of my sins. Including ignorance. So if the Christian god turns out to be true, then I'll be peachy. Even more so if it's the Mormon rendition, and you know, them mormons are dedicated people.

So why fret so much on aligning myself with any one given religion when the 'correct one' has me covered anyways? Gee, I sure hope it isn't Islam. I am so fucked if it's Islam.

Ah, but my point. Logic is important. Logic in everything, not just in some things. Evidence is as evidence is, and faith is as faith is, but as far as what I believe, I tend to want to hold my faith in people. See. I know they exist. Like, you know, because I can reach out and pinch the cheek of a person. Can't really do that with a god. I mean hey, maybe he is real, but if that dick doesn't want to come down and have a beer with us, he should be ready for people to be a little ignorant, eh? That is, if he exists. See. That's the thing.

You can't really use fear against people who have logic. That's the point. We don't fear shit we can't prove or disprove. We fear shit we know.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Religion is... To use Christianity as an example (I dont mean to offened anyone), was created by the Roman's as a way of controling people.

If you have 200 thousand supersitious people roiting accross the empire what do you do. You exploit their weakness, their naivity in beliving anything. Then you do some