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Debate Info

25
19
Yep, they're all evil Good Christian
Debate Score:44
Arguments:30
Total Votes:50
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Argument Ratio

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 Yep, they're all evil (14)
 
 Good Christian (15)

Debate Creator

Elvira(3446) pic



Christians cannot have morals. Spark! Spark! Spark!

Don't go mad just yet...

Christians have the motivation to be nice to people because they believe that if they don't, they'll burn in hell for eternity.

Atheists generally believe that being nice will not affect what happens to you when you die- they have no threat hanging over their head to give money to charity or comfort their siblings or whatever...

You get my point?

Yep, they're all evil

Side Score: 25
VS.

Good Christian

Side Score: 19
4 points

Christians don't have morals, they have obedience. Morals is doing the right thing, whereas Christians do what they are told, what they have to do, for a reward.

That's not to say that Christians cannot be moral in their obedience, but I would not call them moral in themselves.

Also, most Christians don't put their faith above all else, as seen by the reluctance to adhere to some of the more fucked up parts of the Bible (stoning children who swear at their parents, flogging people who work on Saturdays, and so on), showing how those that claim to be Christian's do put morals ahead of obedience. But I'm talking about a hypothetical 'true' Christian.

Side: Yep, they're all evil
ChaosEnsues(5) Disputed
1 point

Just on the stoning part. Those are not meant as a command, obviously when looking at the entire quote and the overarching aspects of the Bible. Those being moral law, ceremonial law, and civil law. The stoning was a model of moral and civil law. Children are not born moral, they are taught morality. If you are a parent you will know. The child learns from what you say and simple examples. If the child does not listen and refuses to be taught, that child will bear down humanity with careless and immoral actions. Those are to be taken in context because the last part of that was "All Israel will hear of it and be afraid". The wrath of God was to be remembered, and feared. That is in part what drives the moral behavior. You can take this from the Flood, where God purged the worst of man.

Side: Good Christian
2 points

Children are not born moral, they are taught morality. If you are a parent you will know. The child learns from what you say and simple examples.

Morality can be taught, yes, but it can also be learned through experience and it can be felt intuitively, without guidance. We don't get 100% of our moral values from our parents. Even if you never explicitly told a child that murder is wrong, if that child were to witness a murder, I think he or she would know they had seen something wrong happen.

If the child does not listen and refuses to be taught, that child will bear down humanity with careless and immoral actions.

People who live absent morality - who are unable to distinguish between right and wrong and incapable of feeling sympathy or empathy - are called psychopaths. Bad parenting (or lack of parenting) does not produce a psychopathic child, it results in snobs and brats and hooligans and such. It requires a severe mental illness to fail to comprehend morality as you suggest, not just bad parenting.

Side: Yep, they're all evil
BenWalters(1513) Disputed
2 points

Those are not meant as a command, obviously when looking at the entire quote and the overarching aspects of the Bible.

While I agree that the general message of the Bible is moral (essentially, be a nice tolerant person), there are many intricacies in which it massively deviates from this message. I cannot call such a text 'moral' unless these intricacies were eradicated.

Children are not born moral, they are taught morality.

No, they are taught an idea of morality, which they should challenge and discuss and develop their own views over time. That's how it should be, and always will be.

If the child does not listen and refuses to be taught, that child will bear down humanity with careless and immoral actions.

Again, no. If the child does not listen to a particular view of morality, then they will simply have a different view of morality. If a particular view is forced upon a child, then it is possible that they completely reject that view (which is what you are talking about). To prevent this, morality should be discussed, not preached as an absolute truth, in order to involve the child, and encourage them into a mature discussion of morality.

I do not see space for The wrath of God in a discussion in morality - morality under a carrot and stick motivation is not morality. This is what my original argument spoke against.

Side: Yep, they're all evil
3 points

Atheists do whats right because its right and neither expect nor seek reward for it. Christians do what the bible says because if they dont they go to hell.

I didnt say "christians do whats right because....." because throughout history we have far to many examples of christians doing horribly immoral things for god such as war, genocide, rape, murder, theft, ect ect

Side: Yep, they're all evil
ChaosEnsues(5) Disputed
2 points

I am Catholic myself. While I would not say that I am incredibly religious, I am a kind person myself, have not thought about Hell, I just do things because they are right. I look at others with kindness and help those that I can. While I am not completely selfless, I am not selfish. I am always willing to offer a hand to someone willing to put the work to get back up on their feet.

I wouldn't say any religious person does anything based on whether or not they will burn for their crimes. I have plenty of Atheist friends who are generically good people. I have also seen religious members commit obscene crimes. One example could be the Catholic priests and the sexual harassment/rape scandals a few years back. I doubt they were thinking of hell back then with their actions.

And Christians in general have not committed the atrocities that have happened for centuries now, since the Reformations. We are hardly the only ones out there, and I highly resent anyone who says that. We are definitely not the largest group for that. Look at the Middle East right now, with the Muslims going about torturing those who speak out of line, or those who attempt to convert, or just try to escape from the grasp of the religion. I dare say that those are acts of love.

People are more responsible and act the way they do based on their nurturing. In some cases, sure it is religious inspiration provided from the parents.

Side: Good Christian
1 point

Seems Legit.

Side: Yep, they're all evil
1 point

They all have morals but most of them are the same morals christians just follow the christian crowd they don't think for themselves they just always think about everything they do incase they do something "wrong" in the way of god. What they do is follow the morals god gave them they don't think for themselves or make there own morals.

Side: Yep, they're all evil
1 point

Very true. I don't see how someone can lead their life based on some thousand year old book. Theists are only kind to people, not for the sake of others, but selfishly so that they get in to heaven. Atheists are nice to people because we believe you only live on the earth once, why be mean?!

Side: Yep, they're all evil
1 point

Part of being a good christian is doing so out of self interest, which is as good of a reason as any. So guess what, christians, you're no better.

Side: Yep, they're all evil

Not every good deed i do is simply due to me not wanting to go to hell. In fact that thought have never crossed my mind in my reasoning. Most of the time it is because i believe you get what you put our in the world.

Side: Good Christian
1 point

Perfect way to state that! I couldn't have described it better!

Side: Good Christian
1 point

The reason why we are being nice to people is because Jesus was nice to people and He said to everyone treat others how you wanted to be treated. Its not morals its my faith and what I believe in.

Side: Good Christian
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
1 point

buuuuuut its also to double down and make sure you dont burn for eternity after you die.....

Side: Yep, they're all evil
Srom(12206) Disputed
1 point

I am not going to burn because I have been been saved. I would worry where your going to go because where your going is not heaven.

Side: Good Christian
1 point

Good Christian;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Side: Good Christian
1 point

Not all Christians are like that. I am Catholic and I believe that good deeds must come from the heart for them to count. For example: giving a stray dog a home because you want to get to heaven does you no credit. Doing it just to help the dog for no selfinterest is what you are supposed to do.

HOWEVER, I do agree that some Christians probably do not have morals...

Side: Good Christian
1 point

As a Catholic, we don't just do good things because we are scared to go to hell. We also find that doing good is a fulfillment for ourselves, and that there would be no harm in helping the people in any way. Maybe, it could be a motivation, but most of us don't use it as an excuse to do good. Besides, not all people are selfish, wherein we only think of ourselves and just do it because we wouldn't want to face the consequences of our actions in the future. All people are not perfect, just like us, Christians.

Side: Good Christian
1 point

Being a Christian is being set apart from this world and truly striving to be like Jesus Christ. I don't try to live a Christian life because I am scared of going to hell, no it's because I truly love people and love helping them. My heart brakes for people, because Jesus has softened my heart towards others. My compassion and motive is from God, I was once a lost person, with no compassion for others. I only cared for myself and that is truly what happens when you are not living for something greater than yourself. Seek God and he will transform you into the image of his son Jesus. The reward of Heaven is just a awesome bonus. Even if Heaven was not promised I would still want to serve others, and live like Jesus because that lifestyle is way MORE fulfilling than simply living and existing for myself.

Side: Good Christian
Elvira(3446) Disputed
1 point

*breaks

And no, that is not good. Emotional detatchment and empathy, but not suffering emotional pain when it does not benefit anyone, esp. not yourself. Plus, "Seek God and he will transform you into the image of his son Jesus." really, no! I don't want a beard! I'm happy with the wicca- science mix :)

Side: Yep, they're all evil
1 point

Well according to this argument no one can have morals because everyone does things for selfish reasons. Even if you want to do good things and do them, you have done good things because you want to do good things, which is selfish. Moreover, the only way for someone, given that your basis is the grounding for morality, is to not want to do good things and to do them in a way that will not receive good rewards and that you had no intentions of receiving any rewards such as a good feeling from doing the right thing. However, to not want to do good things would most likely come from someone who is morally bad in the first place. Therefore, the entire basis of the argument is illogical if you are to say that one group of people are good, while the other are bad.

Side: Good Christian
1 point

If one is truly a christian, then he is an extremely good person. We love our enemies and pray for them Jesus said that we should go the extra mile, and that we should do unto others as we would've done unto us. You can blame the nasty mean zealots for corrupting christianity.

Side: Good Christian