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The Jesus story never made a lot of sense to me. I grew up going to church three times a week. I told them (parents, teachers, church people) what they wanted to hear (that I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he died to atone for my sins). Honestly, the story ---even as a story--- never made sense to me. There's parts of the Old Testament that I disagree with, but I kind of get the Jewish concept of God, but
then the New Testament is where we start with the LSD.
Virgin. Angel of the Lord. God in Flesh. Walking on Water. Dead. Not Dead. Resurrected.
And somehow this forgives me for sins that I haven't yet committed.
Translation from language to language changes the bible in small ways such as how the kjv says things when referring to people in a way that makes it sound as if there is more then one person like when is says (god and Christ or Satan and the devil)
What do you mean, "evidence?" It is what it is. You adhere to a prophet and some dogma all for a reward you can only claim by dying. Jesus is undead because he died and came back to life; he is a demigod because one of his parents is a mortal and one is divine. So I don't see what "evidence" I need to furnish: Christianity is by it's very nature a death cult that worships and undead demigod.
The term "death cult" implies that Christians go around wishing they were dead. The term "undead" does not mean resurrected, it means something that is dead but is kept alive but supernatural forces.
No it doesn't. Death cult refers to a religion or cult that has large elements of death within it, such as Jesus dying as a major plot device, and you dying in order to claim your reward, immortality and happiness.
We did not say it was a suicide cult or something like that. It is only a cult of death.
According to strong Christians, who take the Bible seriously, Earth is basically hell, or a test. It is a terrible place of suffering. A vale of tears, as it is often referred to.
Catholics, a massive sect of Christianity has it's whole blood drinking and flesh eating rituals.
To say "Catholics are wrong!" yet still believe in the same Jesus and God would be shameful, in my opinion. They are both Christianity.
However, even without the cannibalism, there is still the aspect of heaven and hell. Christians are convinced that they will be happy in Heaven, and that because death and pain is caused by sin, they must eliminate sin and live by the word of the bible. Even if those rules make no sense to people not in the cult, to the ones who obey the book, Christians, those rules are important, yet to the Christians, all heathens go to hell. Perhaps not all Christians agree, but Jesus said if you don't believe in him, you don't get eternal life. To a heathen, it is completely illogical and means nothing. It is like saying if you are not good, Gandalf will turn you into a frog and then boil you slowly. Now sure, it COULD be true, but I don't think wizards exist, much less Gandalf. But Christians DO believe, so they will look down on heathens as people who are bound for hell, to burn forever.
This is only after death however. There is no punishment for the wicked on Earth, besides established secular laws, and in highly religious nations, such as Iraq and other third world countries, they do have punishments for sin or breaking the rules of their god, which is often death.
However, the final nail in the coffin is the fact that Jesus' entire message had nothing to do with making Earth a better place. It was all about after you had died. Heaven wasn't on Earth. Earth is a terrible, painful place. Heaven is far better. No death, no pain, all loved ones are reunited.
It's perfect.
Of course, if it doesn't exist, then Christians such as yourself are living a life dedicated to dying and going to heaven.
"Catholics, a massive sect of Christianity has it's whole blood drinking and flesh eating rituals"
Which involve bread and wine. Which, I think you'll find, do not come under the label "cannibalism".
"Christians are convinced that they will be happy in Heaven, and that because death and pain is caused by sin, they must eliminate sin and live by the word of the bible."
Which would lead to a happy community anyway. I don't see anything wrong with Christians adhering to the word of God.
"Even if those rules make no sense to people not in the cult, to the ones who obey the book, Christians, those rules are important, yet to the Christians, all heathens go to hell."
Christianity is not a cult, it is a religion. And how to "rules" such as "Do not murder" not make sense to non-Christians.
"Perhaps not all Christians agree, but Jesus said if you don't believe in him, you don't get eternal life. To a heathen, it is completely illogical and means nothing."
You assume that to all non-Christians, Christianity is "completely illogical and means nothing" which is a broad generilization that shows your education from the media.
"To a heathen, it is completely illogical and means nothing. It is like saying if you are not good, Gandalf will turn you into a frog and then boil you slowly."
Did you get a degree or a diploma in the University of Hollywood?
" But Christians DO believe, so they will look down on heathens as people who are bound for hell, to burn forever."
Christians try to help people who they believe are condemned. Your generalizations and hateful stereotypes are similar to those made by the anti-semite Nazis.
"However, the final nail in the coffin is the fact that Jesus' entire message had nothing to do with making Earth a better place. It was all about after you had died. Heaven wasn't on Earth. Earth is a terrible, painful place. Heaven is far better. No death, no pain, all loved ones are reunited."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is not a message to make Earth a better place?
"Of course, if it doesn't exist, then Christians such as yourself are living a life dedicated to dying and going to heaven. "
While, you atheists waste away your years waiting to die, hoping that Hell doesn't exist.
A happy community? For whom, exactly? For you? Sure.
There is a reason I am not Christian, however. Those rules are a bit too authoritarian for me, not to mention how illogical and silly they are. To force all people to be Christians is exactly what you want.
And did you seriously say "Christans try to help people who they believe are condemned"? Ahahaha, that's exactly what I'm talking about, buddy. Your religion is fake, so your efforts to convert people to your death cult will generally go badly, unless those people are poor and hungry, like the Africans your missionaries are converting. I hear they burn witches now.
Witches.
WITCHES.
THEY DON'T EXIST.
So who is getting burned? Just more religious bullshit.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is an excellent rule, and one that I live by. I did not learn it from Jesus, but from the experience of my own life. To think you need some magic prophet to tell you that it's nice to treat people that way is a bit simplified, isn't it?
Waste away my years, waiting to die? No, that sounds more like you. When I am dead, I will expect to see nothing, which means this life is important.
For you, you expect to see heaven and be forgiven for all mistakes and wrongs you commit.
And you do realize that religions are the exact same thing as cults, only bigger, right?
"There is a reason I am not Christian, however. Those rules are a bit too authoritarian for me, not to mention how illogical and silly they are. To force all people to be Christians is exactly what you want."
"Do not murder" is an "illogical" and "silly" rule isn't it.
"And did you seriously say "Christans try to help people who they believe are condemned"? Ahahaha, that's exactly what I'm talking about, buddy. Your religion is fake, so your efforts to convert people to your death cult will generally go badly, unless those people are poor and hungry, like the Africans your missionaries are converting. I hear they burn witches now."
Ha, you "hear" they burn witches, where did you hear it from your television? And I don't understand why you claim the efforts to convert people go badly?
"Witches.
WITCHES.
THEY DON'T EXIST.
So who is getting burned? Just more religious bullshit."
Of course they don't exist, I'm wondering where you're getting your information from. Mickey Mouse?
""Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is an excellent rule, and one that I live by. I did not learn it from Jesus, but from the experience of my own life. To think you need some magic prophet to tell you that it's nice to treat people that way is a bit simplified, isn't it?"
Sure, you might live by the rule. But the majority of atheists don't.
"Waste away my years, waiting to die? No, that sounds more like you. When I am dead, I will expect to see nothing, which means this life is important."
Of course this life is important, I plan to enjoy every second of it. Why is t many atheists follow the rule "live fast, die young"? It's because life matters so little to them, that they're just waiting to die.
"For you, you expect to see heaven and be forgiven for all mistakes and wrongs you commit.
And you do realize that religions are the exact same thing as cults, only bigger, right?"
Someone here hasn't read any dictionary definitions, and that person wouldn't be me.
"Do not murder" is an "illogical" and "silly" rule isn't it.
That rule is present in most religions, yet is easily broken by religious war and religious rules, such as the ones in the Bible instructing you in the proper way of killing your children if they are rebellious.
Ha, you "hear" they burn witches, where did you hear it from your television? And I don't understand why you claim the efforts to convert people go badly?
I hope that's enough evidence for you. I won't bother warning you that the first two videos are extremely graphic and show people getting burnt to death as witches. Those countries are almost completely Christian, if you would care to look it up, so those are Christians burning witches as they are instructed to do in the Bible. "Do not suffer a witch to live".
Sure, you might live by the rule. But the majority of atheists don't.
Are you joking? How often have people been bullied by atheists? What about gay people being bullied by Christians?
I'm pretty sure it's Christians if anyone who is breaking that sort of rule. From politics, such as George Bush's "crusade" into the middle-east, to gay bullying, Christians appear to do a lot worse than writing angry books like "The God Delusion".
Of course this life is important, I plan to enjoy every second of it. Why is t many atheists follow the rule "live fast, die young"? It's because life matters so little to them, that they're just waiting to die.
Is that what you think atheists do? It appears that you've said that without any supporting evidence. To me, it seems the opposite, that atheists, with no god and no heaven, knowing life is gonna be pretty tough no matter what they believe, they try to make it the best they can. But you are brainwashed, right? You think atheists are the enemy, something different from you. You feel they are less than you are.
To be a cult, you differentiate yourself from non-members. Such as damned vs saved.
There must be indoctrination involved, which is what happens as well. Not all Christians are indoctrinated, but the way many Christians argue, no evidence, no logic and whatnot, and based on my own upbringing, there is certainly indoctrination involved.
And of course, you have a leader telling you what to do. If not your pastor or priest, the Bible itself, or even the idea of Jesus motivates you to believe.
So yes, Christianity is certainly a cult. Some types of Christianity are more cultish than others, such as creationist christians and catholics, but not all are truly cult like.
First of all, Catholics are not the only denomination that takes communion.
Secondly, communion is not meant to be 'cannibalism'. Its a symbol, done in order to remember the ultimate sacrifice.
However, the final nail in the coffin is the fact that Jesus' entire message had nothing to do with making Earth a better place. It was all about after you had died. Heaven wasn't on Earth. Earth is a terrible, painful place. Heaven is far better. No death, no pain, all loved ones are reunited.
But what about Jesus' second coming? Its said in Revelation that he will establish a kingdom on Earth and reign over it for 1,000 years.
Ok, so catholics aren't the only people who symbolically eat flesh and blood. Is that supposed to be a good thing?
And of course it's not meant to be cannibalism. Just like a sacrifice isn't simply killing an animal or a human for fun. It's supposed to please whatever god they worship.
However, if those gods don't exist, then it is killing for no reason, just as you appear to be eating flesh and drinking blood for no reason.
And the Second Coming? Who cares? It's not real. People have been talking about impending doomsday since the first time they thought about what happens at the end of time. From the black plague, to the volcano in Pompeii, to computers and the Y2K thing, and even the 2012 crisis. People love thinking about doomsday, and if a religion is going to be a good religion, it will talk about doomsday.
Ok, so catholics aren't the only people who symbolically eat flesh and blood. Is that supposed to be a good thing?
You haven't heard of "transubstantiation?" In several Catholic communions, the bread and wine doesn't just symbolically become the flesh and blood of Christ but literally, magically transforms into actual flash and blood. You hit the nail on the head the first time. It's downright cannibalism.
Catholicism is different from Protestantism. Catholicism is not based on the Bible unlike the juxtaposed position of Protestantism. Catholics believe things like celibacy for priests when that is clearly not Biblically sound... they believe things like transubstantiation which is also not Biblically sound... etc.
Ok, so catholics aren't the only people who symbolically eat flesh and blood. Is that supposed to be a good thing?
I'm pointing out the errors in your post, nothing more.
And of course it's not meant to be cannibalism. Just like a sacrifice isn't simply killing an animal or a human for fun. It's supposed to please whatever god they worship.
How is it cannibalism? Its crackers and juice.
However, if those gods don't exist, then it is killing for no reason, just as you appear to be eating flesh and drinking blood for no reason.
How is this a an accurate comparison? Buying crackers and grape juice does not harm anyone...
And the Second Coming? Who cares? It's not real. People have been talking about impending doomsday since the first time they thought about what happens at the end of time. From the black plague, to the volcano in Pompeii, to computers and the Y2K thing, and even the 2012 crisis. People love thinking about doomsday, and if a religion is going to be a good religion, it will talk about doomsday.
Whether you think its real or not is besides the point. Your whole " Jesus' entire message had nothing to do with making Earth a better place" is wrong. You're making inaccurate claims about Christianity in an attempt to conclude something. You don't see the problem with that?
Well, except to Catholics. I can't speak for them. I guess they think it literally transforms into the body and bloods of Christ, which is pretty silly.
Think about how I think of you and every other religious person and the rituals they do. Muslims starving themselves because of Ramadan, creationists deny evolution, which includes most of biology, they ignore earth science and astronomy, they seem completely crazy to me.
Then Hindus have the crazy reincarnation thing, which on the surface makes sense, but how is it used? It means that poor people are blamed for being poor because they must have been bad people in a past life, and rich people are considered to be near saints.
What you're saying is very reasonable. I've had the same thoughts. But I find it hard to group all religions like this.
I find Christianity to be very fundamentally different from all other religions because of its salvation doctrine. This teaches that no amount of good deeds or works will get you to heaven, but rather, simply the grace of God. This just seems more realistic to me. God is supernatural, so really he is the only one who belongs in heaven. So he is the one who can get humans in, not ourselves. I know that this all still seems silly, but I earnestly believe it.
I'm not stupid, retarded, or insane. From an early age, I've been considered a gifted learner based on a large amount of testing. I've studied Christianity for a while, and it just makes sense to me. The Bible was never meant to be a science book. Most of what is in it covers spirituality, not the natural world. I'm not convinced that everything in the Bible is literal. There is a lot of symbolism and metaphors, or whatever have you.
I truly wish that God would somehow reveal himself in a way that even the most doubtful people would see and believe. Because right now, if one follows logic, a belief in God is impossible.
Salvation doctrine? That's true, but I would only say it's uniqueness is why there are so many Christians. Like I said, a belief that lets you enter a paradise without dying and with lots of happiness and loved ones just for believing is going to be very popular.
Yes, I would agree. But I think most Christians would argue that a transformation occurs after this belief, which makes them more likely to help the poor and all those other good deeds that some believe will get them to heaven.
And also, in regards to Jesus making Earth some sort of heaven... That is completely stupid in every way. Are you sane?
Do you not see the difference between "Treat others nicely and learn all you can" and "Follow my orders and someday I will use magic to dominate the earth and make it perfect for everyone who is in my cult."?
If I want to make the world a better place, I will not rely on a god. I will be kind to people and help them learn.
Christians and Catholics are far from the same.there are numerus differences between the two including who god is (Christians believe Jesus is god and Catholics believe Jesus is gods son,both bathtize differently,and Catholics think all you have to do to get saved is to believe in god.)
you said Christians are part of a death cult but if that were true any one who believes they will die one day are part of a death cult to.Christians do not kill them self they just know one day they will die and want to be ready for that just like you.
Also god often punishes people on Earth such as the destruction of Sodom.But in the modern day he dose this much less because he is so forgiving.before his death blasphemy would be punished with a public stoning.
According to strong Christians, who take the Bible seriously, Earth is basically hell, or a test. It is a terrible place of suffering. A vale of tears, as it is often referred to.
obviously you dont know what the bible is. earth is anything but what you said. maybe you should state the facts and get your resources before answering on createdebate.
First of all. Christianity is not a cult. It's a religion. There seemed to be some confusion. Second of all. The blood and body of Christ is symbolized by bread and wine. It's not cannibalism. Third of all. People don't automatically go to Hell if they don't believe in Him. They get second chances. God tries to guide them the best He can without forcing them into believing. On Judgement Day, if they aren't sent to Heaven, they get another chance to believe. When they choose not to, that is their choice. Fourth of all. Christians aren't TRYING to die and go to Heaven. They want to live their lives as fully as they can, doing good things on their way, which will earn them a spot in Heaven. Christianity isn't a cult. It's not dedicated to death. If you can't see that, then it's your problem.
Dude. Cannibalism is literally eating body parts. Atheists like you never want to believe anything that makes sense. I guess criticizing other people's religion makes you feel better or something. So sad.
And yes, perhaps it's not TRUE cannibalism, but symbolic cannibalism is still creepy as fuck.
For any normal person who ISN'T indoctrinated to think it's normal, the idea of symbolic or "transubstantiation" cannibalism is creepy and weird and horrifying.
Because Jesus, gods, demons, angels and all that is NOT real, it has no deeper meaning than the occultist rituals of a person hoping to become closer to becoming a god. "WWJD". Immortality in heaven.
You cannot face death, so you attempt to become a god. You would NEVER word it that way, but to an outsider, that is what your rituals look like. You feast on the flesh of a god "symbolically" (Unless you believe in transubstantiation), and hope that by praying to and believing in, you win this insane god's favor so that it grants you immortality in paradise, rather than burning and pain in hell for all of eternity.
It is a good way of knowing what Christians and Jews think. I read the Quran and the Hadith to understand Muslims, and I want to read Hindu stuff to understand them too.
How do you claim the final reward that Christianity promises you, and that the religion is specifically designed to prepare you for? You die. All of the good stuff about Christianity comes after death. Life is for labor and tithing and prayer and generally apologizing and trying to make up for what a worthless, wretched, sinful piece of shit god thinks you are, and death is a party in heaven 24/7 (provided you do what the death cult tells you, of course, otherwise it's straight to an eternity of unimaginable suffering).
The belief that some cosmic jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood and telepathically submit yourself as his servant, so that he can remove an evil soul from your body because some rib woman ate an apple from a forbidden tree because a snake told her to.
A whole lot of people, aside from the original apostles who followed Jesus, gave their lives for what they knew to be absolute fact--that Jesus was indeed God's Son just as the scriptures foretold and fulfilled.
The zombie comparison is an insult just to be insulting.
They downvoted and didn't comment because they know you're right and can't prove that their point makes sense at all. It's never happened to me but I get how that would be annoying.
There's no evidence they were all executed and there's no evidence the ones that were executed were executed specifically for their belief in the resurrection.
There is significant evidence the disciples we're not intelligent, however, from the fact that most of them were illiterate savages to the idea that any of them would deny the divinity of Jesus after several clear demonstrations of his power.
But if they did all get executed specifically for their belief in the resurrection, perhaps they were fooled. If David Copperfield can convince several hundred people in modern New York (every single one of them far, far more intelligent than any of the disciples could have possibly been) that he made the Statue of Liberty disappear, what's to say a false prophet couldn't trick a dozen moronic barbarians 2000 years ago into thinking he's a demigod?
whoever even came up with this debate is a friggen retard. if you could actually read the bible then you would know he didnt come back from the dead, he ressurected cuz jesus is god. jesus was born in the virgin mary to save the sinners (us) so he died on the cross for us. even if you dont believe in jesus or god, there still was a man named jesus who told everyone he was god. search the books. have proof before you create a debate.
There is a difference between resurrection and coming back from the dead. Resurrection refers to putting on a new, glorified body, while coming back from the dead, or resuscitation, mean raising the person in the old, mortal body in which they died.
If Jesus was a zombie wouldn't the whole world right now be in a zombie apocalypse right now? Obviously not because Jesus when He rose again from the grave His body was healed. He didn't attack anyone.
If Jesus was a zombie wouldn't the whole world right now be in a zombie apocalypse right now? Obviously not because Jesus when He rose again from the grave His body was healed. He didn't attack anyone.
Zombie is simply a dead body coming back to life not a dead body coming back to life to attack people.
A zombie is whatever Hollywood wants it to be. So far, the general definition is "the body of a dead person given the semblance of life, but mute and will-less, by a supernatural force, usually for some evil purpose. "
Zombies are people who are dead but they are infected with a parasite in their brain and they attack people so that they can be zombies as well. Was Jesus a zombie? No because He didn't attack anyone.
Haven't you heard of religious wars? There are some happening right now.
If religion makes a person a zombie, infected with a parasite that deludes them into thinking that certain things are real, when they are actually not, and those things cause them to hurt people, then I would consider Jesus to actually be the Zombie-lord. The Lich King.
The ultimate demon of death and destruction. He who craves the souls of the living, the one who dwells in shadows, invisible, yet hungry.
He will feast upon the flesh of his zombies he has created on Doomsday, the ultimate act of destruction that the Lord of Fear and Chaos will bring down upon the poor mortals of Earth.
At least according to your Bible.
In reality, none of that stuff is real. Jesus isn't real, God isn't going to go kill you.
The term "zombie" has a certain connotation and underlying meaning applied to it. The dictionary definition of words is not evidence purely to make an argument out of, simply because words are ambiguous, abstract, and constantly changing. More specifically, when thinking of a zombie most people think of a "hollywood" being that is neither living nor dead. Continued, the living dead are generally known for attacking the currently living as a means of self-survival (i.e. brains; and for that matter, any other type of evil act). So no, Christians do not worship a zombie merely because the word "zombie" brings added luggage to the discussion and Jesus neither wished evil nor did evil upon any of His creation.
You know what, let me tell you. Jesus rose from the grave and after some travelling and miracle showing he went away never to be heard of again! That's what you believe, don't you? ;)
Let me tell you something which comes from a bit of research.
Normally, people who were condemned to die on the crucifix had their knees broken, so that the pressure would shift to their chest and they would fall victims to asphyxiation. However, if it was not done, then the person would be in agony for the next two to four days. But, in Jesus' case, he never had his knees broken. Furthermore, he died within the next few hours. Isn't that a bit odd?
According to sources, Jesus was buried with a whole lot of myrrh and aloe vera. Scientists today have found out that these two substances were of great use in case of substantial blood loss. Jesus was stabbed with a spear before he was taken off. Isn't it odd?
Zombie: soulless corpse said to be revived by witchcraft
The resurrection of Jesus: the Christian belief that Jesus Christ returned to life on the Sunday following the Friday on which he was executed by crucifixion.
Only certain zombies eat brains, Romeroesque zombies eat any living human flesh and voodoo zombies don't eat anything in particular, they all share the fact that they are the reanimated dead, as was Jesus, checkmate.
Uh, no. Checkmate my ass. Jesus is not a zombie. You know what gets me every damn time? You antitheists do not have the balls to go after Muslims, but you will go after Christians, and you know why? Muslims will straight fuck you up, while Christians will put up with your bull shit. Maybe if you had the balls to go after Islam, I would have more respect for you.
What are you even talking about? Islam is way easier to attack than Christianity; Islam today is basically just Christianity a few hundred years ago. There are far more abuses by and of Islam in the Muslim world than there are by Christianity in Christian countries. And the abused are typically more heinous, too, like beheading a child or using religious law to punish a rape victim. The state of Islam today is a militant atheist's wet dream.
Oh no! Not the ultimate check mate! No, anything but that! Please God, no! Oh my God, I can see the light! Grandma, is that you?! JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
This has to be without a doubt, the most retarded debate I have ever seen, let alone took part in. Zombie?......Really? What exactly were they thinking when they came up with this topic? "He was resurrected, so he must be a zombie! Duh!" So I guess my answer is no. Obviously not.