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Lord Cornwallus. Groom of the Stool
Debate Score:50
Arguments:40
Total Votes:59
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 Lord Cornwallus. (23)
 
 Groom of the Stool (13)

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FactMachine(430) pic



Communism sucks.

Lord Cornwallus.

Side Score: 30
VS.

Groom of the Stool

Side Score: 20
1 point

Yes Communism sucks as does Marx. Not a tough case to make as your meme illustrates. But if you were hoping to get Nomenclature in here to make a case you can forget it. If he bothers to show up he will tell you that direct quotes mean the opposite of what they say and the history of communism is the history of ...not communism. Good luck though.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
FactMachine(430) Disputed
1 point

Nomenclature was just the douchebag I was hoping to inflame with this debate. I hate that communist sack of congealed gal bladder excretions from a sick whale. I saw you getting exposed to the ultraviolet stupidity rays of that DeepDarkness character, I think I hate him even more than you and Nomenclature. Nomenclature seems to defend him sometimes, It might be another manifestation of that Quantumdickhead. Since you seem to know about this guys ideology I think we should gang up on him and debate him even though I hate you, I'm somewhat familiar with ass holes like him as well but he's probably the worst one I've encountered.

Side: Groom of the Stool
2 points

I hate that communist sack of congealed gal bladder excretions from a sick whale

I hate that you are dependent on online insult generators and somehow believe that validates your immense stupidity and/or complete misunderstanding of the facts. You are a moron who has been bombarded with anti-Communist propaganda for the last seventy years. Twice during the Vietnam War, North and South Vietnam were ready to declare peace, and twice the Americans stopped that from happening because they knew Ho Chi Min would win a fair political election. The core of your capitalist system is war and force, and you are actually such a redundantly stupid bastard that you are trying to attack Communism as being tyrannical. Fuck off. American military intervention has killed more people than anything and anyone in the past four hundred years, including Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao. In fact, a sizeable proportion of the deaths attributed to Pol Pot in American textbooks were actually caused by America's clandestine bombing of Cambodia!!

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
Amarel(5669) Clarified
1 point

See? He just contradicted history with no support but his assertions. There’s no debate here. He’s a brick.

Unfortunately it’s worse with DeepDarkness. He will assert that you are evil by virtue of your white skin and as proof, he will tell you the red color that comes through when you hold your hand up to the light of the sun is he hellfire within you, illuminated by the light of gods good sun that your evil pale skin can not tolerate, which is further proof of black supremacy.

It’s really not worth it. DeepDarkness says shit that convinces no one but his pals (he brought another with him last time). Neither will he be convinced by you. He is in a different world.

Similarly (though less vile) when Nomenclature runs up against facts, or is challenged to provide any, he calls you a liar and walks away. Again, there’s no point because he is a weasel. You should try debating Communism with Elroy, at least he is polite.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
1 point

Marx was a loafer and a scrounger who had the audacity to talk and hold forth about the plight of the working classes a class he identified with yet never did an honest days work in his life , he lived in filth , neglected his family and was a bigot and a racist .

A lot of his adoring followers are " champagne socialists " who " can identify with the plight of the working classes " yeah right 👌

I doubt one of them has ever read the dreadful Das Kapital I cannot say I blame them in fairness ☺️

Here's a little snippet of Marx and his buddy Engels i wonder what black , Jewish and Mexican commies think of this 🙀 From The Globe

Editor’s note: This commentary contains language, although used in historical context, that may offend some readers.

May Day celebrations were held all across the fruited plain, with leftist radicals and unionists worshipping the ideals of communism.

Communism is an ideology calling for government control over our lives. It was created by Karl Marx, who—along with his collaborator, Friedrich Engels—wrote a pamphlet called “Manifesto of the Communist Party.”

In 1867, Marx wrote the first volume of “Das Kapital.” The second and third volumes were published posthumously, edited by Engels.

Few people who call themselves Marxists have ever even bothered to read “Das Kapital.” If one did read it, he would see that people who call themselves Marxists have little in common with Marx.

For those who see Marx as their hero, there are a few historical tidbits they might find interesting. Nathaniel Weyl, himself a former communist, dug them up for his 1979 book, “Karl Marx: Racist.”

For example, Marx didn’t think much of Mexicans. When the United States annexed California after the Mexican War, Marx sarcastically asked, “Is it a misfortune that magnificent California was seized from the lazy Mexicans who did not know what to do with it?”

Engels shared Marx’s contempt for Mexicans, explaining: “In America we have witnessed the conquest of Mexico and have rejoiced at it. It is to the interest of its own development that Mexico will be placed under the tutelage of the United States.”

Marx had a racial vision that might be interesting to his modern-day black supporters. In a letter to Engels, in reference to his socialist political competitor Ferdinand Lassalle, Marx wrote:

It is now completely clear to me that he, as is proved by his cranial formation and his hair, descends from the Negroes who had joined Moses’ exodus from Egypt, assuming that his mother or grandmother on the paternal side had not interbred with a n—–. Now this union of Judaism and Germanism with a basic Negro substance must produce a peculiar product.

Engels shared Marx’s racial philosophy. In 1887, Paul Lafargue, who was Marx’s son-in-law, was a candidate for a council seat in a Paris district that contained a zoo. Engels claimed that Lafargue had “one-eighth or one-twelfth n—– blood.”

In a letter to Lafargue’s wife, Engels wrote, “Being in his quality as a n—–, a degree nearer to the rest of the animal kingdom than the rest of us, he is undoubtedly the most appropriate representative of that district.”

Marx was also an anti-Semite, as seen in his essay titled “On the Jewish Question,” which was published in 1844. Marx asked:

What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. … Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man—and turns them into commodities. … The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. … The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.

Despite the fact that in the 20th century alone communism was responsible for more than 100 million murders, much of the support for communism and socialism is among intellectuals.

The reason they do not condemn the barbarism of communism is understandable. Richard Pipes explains:

Intellectuals, by the very nature of their professions, grant enormous attention to words and ideas. And they are attracted by socialist ideas. They find that the ideas of communism are praiseworthy and attractive; that, to them, is more important than the practice of communism. Now, Nazi ideals, on the other hand, were pure barbarism; nothing could be said in favor of them.

That means leftists around the world will continue to celebrate the ideas of communism.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
1 point

Here are some more " insights " into the bearded and tormented life of the " Bar room philosopher " Marx , courtesy of The Economic journal .......

Marx was anything but a saint. On one hand, he strongly criticized capitalism in his works and incited hatred against the bourgeoisie. On the other, he was financially dependent on his wife, who was the daughter of an “evil” capitalist entrepreneur by his own definition, as well as his good friend Friedrich Engels, who was the son of a textile factory owner.

Apart from the double standard he held, Marx was also a spendthrift and a womanizer who loved drinking expensive red wine and chain-smoking cigars, and who also had an affair with his own housemaid. In fact, during the last 10 years of his life when he was writing Das Kapital, he couldn’t even pay for his bread and was struggling with terminal Syphilis.

Karl Marx didn’t live to see the publication of the second and third volumes of Das Kapital, which were arranged and published by Engels in 1885 and 1894, respectively, using the preparatory and unfinished manuscripts he had left behind.

After Engels died in 1895, his friend and German social democratic activist Karl Kautsky gathered the remaining manuscripts of Marx, based on which he went on to publish the fourth volume of Das Kapital between 1905 and 1910.

Intriguingly though, despite the fact that Das Kapital has been hailed by the CPC as the “Red Bible” for decades, only a handful of its leaders and high-ranking officials have actually read through all four volumes of the book.

Even paramount leaders like Mao Zedong, Zhou Enlai, Deng Xiaoping and Chen Yun rarely cited the theories of Das Kapital in their written works and chronicles, which calls into question whether they were really as familiar with Marxist theories as they claimed.

In a nutshell, the contents of Das Kapital can be categorized into four major segments: 1. the class struggle and the proletariat dictatorship; 2. violent revolution; 3. the general picture of a communist society; and 4. the theory of “surplus value”.

The idea of “surplus value”, or “Mehrwert”, is at the core of Karl Marx’s anti-capitalist theories. Simply put, “surplus value” refers to the additional value of labor created by workers over and above the costs of hiring them, and that extra value is then appropriated by their employers as “profits” when the finished products which they made are sold to the market.

According to Marx, “surplus value” is a form of labor exploitation, because workers cannot share that extra value and the profits its generates since they have no control over the means of production (e.g. the machinery in the factories owned by their employers). As a result, all the extra value and profits go to the pockets of the entrepreneurs, who usually pay their workers less than the value which their labor has added to the finished products, often just enough to maintain them at a subsistence level.

For example, if a factory worker is paid to work eight hours a day, and five hours of work is enough to cover his wages, then the remaining 3 hours of work would be considered “surplus labor”, and the extra value it produces would be “surplus value”.

Marx’s arguments over “surplus value” might appear logical and convincing at first glance. However, there is actually a fundamental flaw in his theories: while he lambasted entrepreneurs for exploiting workers, he failed to take into account their contribution in terms of capital, management and technology input.

If capitalists are not rewarded in terms of “surplus value”, where will job opportunities come from? And there will be no industrialization and economic advance whatsoever.

In the first volume of Das Kapital, Marx says “the days of private capitalism are numbered”. Ironically, history has proven him wrong, as it was exactly the opposite that happened in China in the 1980s when capitalism, along with its modern production and management methods were introduced to pull China out of its economic difficulties and widespread poverty.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
1 point

An idea is not wrong simply because it came from someone who's life you don't respect.

However,

I agree, there has yet to be any large scale or long term success of communism. The closest applications to concept are very small communes which typically don't last long, and the largest applications are totalitarian states.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
3 points

Who is Lord Cornwallus???

Yes Communism sucks as does Marx. Not a tough case to make as your meme illustrates.

Communist theory has inspired the development of political change from capitalism which treats workers as a factor of production and exploits their labor in the interests of profits. From this understanding of economics comes political parties which aim to turn upside down capitalism by making the workers the owners of wealth creation for the common good. Communism is not so much a form of government as a goal of society. From it comes socialist variations which impacts to a greater or lesser degree European countries.

Side: Groom of the Stool
FactMachine(430) Disputed
1 point

I made up Lord Cornwallus.

Communist theory has inspired the development of political change from capitalism and lead to even worse shitholes of tyranny,but yes capitalism treats workers as a factor of production and exploits their labor in the interests of profits, unless it's actually a free market which currently doesn't exist, and even if you have a free market the profit incentive always leads to consumerism and croney capitalism. From communist understanding of economics comes political parties which aim to turn upside down capitalism by making the workers slaves to a totalitarian state which is why the final result that is supposed to be attained by communism can never come to fruition, once that communist government gets in power it doesn't want to leave power and a new bourgeoisie is formed. Communism is not supposed to be a form of government, but that's just it's goal of society, part of that process includes the formation of a prolitarian government which always historically has ended up as a ruthless dictatorship. From it comes socialist variations which impacts to a greater or lesser degree European countries by making them even shittier than they already are.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
3 points

Communist theory has inspired the development of political change from capitalism and lead to even worse shitholes of tyranny

You are a goddamned idiot. Do you think capitalism happened without tyranny? Do you think any political system happened without force? Idiots like you who are indoctrinated into the previous system are the entire reason force becomes a necessity in the first place, because you are too stupid to understand who is ripping you off.

Side: Groom of the Stool
Dermot(5736) Disputed
1 point

Hi Eloy , you say .............from this understanding of economics comes political parties which aim to turn upside down capitalism by making the workers the owners of wealth creation for the common good .......

In theory it sounds good doesn't it ?

Have we not seen various supporters of the theory attempt this " noble experiment " ?

The only way a system like this would ever work is if the human race suddenly became non competitive and unselfish ; no matter what way the proposed communist system is set up there will always be power struggles and tensions regarding the fairness or unfairness of the system .

Capitalism is far from perfect but the alternative is truly appaling

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
Eloy(190) Disputed
1 point

The only way a system like this would ever work is if the human race suddenly became non competitive and unselfish ; no matter what way the proposed communist system is set up there will always be power struggles and tensions regarding the fairness or unfairness of the system .

In truth, people are not perfect but I am more optimistic than you. Not everyone is competitive and selfish and such attitudes can be minimized through education designed to foster social responsibility. To one degree or another this was the case in the Soviet Union and its satellite states of Eastern Europe while in some countries of Western Europe socialist parties are in government and they have representation as opposition in others. These alternatives to unbridled capitalism are not as appalling as the poverty, racism, and violence of the capitalist USA.

Side: Groom of the Stool
FactMachine(430) Disputed
-2 points
Eloy(190) Clarified
1 point

Look at Dermot's post Eloy ...

I have responded to Dermot's post above.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
Again(83) Disputed
1 point

He just strangulated any hope you had of defending your sick ideology

No, he/you implied Marx was a hypocrite because he fell in love with a girl whose dad was a capitalist, and befriended a man whose dad was also a capitalist. The only thing he/you strangulated was his/your own credibility. Judging a child for the sins of the father was considered wrong even to the people who wrote the Bible, and they were nuts.

Side: Groom of the Stool

All applications of his theories have ended in failure

This is just laughable. No mention of the tens of millions of people your country killed to stop them being successful? No mention of the decades of economic sabotage or the threat of nuclear war? You just decided to leave that part out, huh? They just simply failed. Nothing to do with us.

You're just not worth the effort. Open a real history book for once in your sad little life. You are so fundamentally devoid of the slightest iota of intellect that you are defending a pyramid system which robs 90 percent of the product of your labour, and attacking the one academic in history who cared enough to formulate a practical alternative.

Side: Groom of the Stool
Amarel(5669) Disputed
2 points

If capitalism were the inferior economy, it would not be in a position to sabotage to the point of extinction it’s superior economic opponent in communism.

Undoubtedly the West took measures against its enemies, but communism’s failures are due to the flaws in its economic theory (if you can call it that). It completely failed to account for basic principles of economics whose absence would have predictable outcomes in paper, which played out in practice with every communist failure.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
2 points

If capitalism were the inferior economy

Oh Jesus Christ you're just so stupid. Capitalism does not produce an inferior economy. Capitalism produces an economy which benefits only the top tier of society. If Barclay's Bank makes 2 billion dollars profit this year then telling me how beneficial that is for "the economy" does not make me any less poor, you window-licking idiot.

Side: Groom of the Stool
FactMachine(430) Disputed
1 point

The one academic in history who was a racist loser and still gets taken seriously 150 years later. I don't support capitalism you dumb fuck I'm a resource based economy advocate, you would like it, it's like communism only without the totalitarian state, the hyper egalitarianism(for everyone except the government) the UBI or the violent revolution.

Side: Lord Cornwallus.
1 point

The one academic in history who was a racist loser

Slinging personal attacks at a man who has been dead for a century and a half does not discredit his theories, only your credibility as a poster. You are a brainless idiot without any understanding of the development of history. Here are some quotes from Abraham Lincoln which you might find interesting:-

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas .

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.

Now what was that you were saying about racist losers? You empty-headed troglodyte.

Side: Groom of the Stool