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 Depends on the Nation (1)
 
 founding fathers (1)

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Conservatism is not what it is defined to be on the net

An examination of the meaning of conservatism- and it is not libertarianism


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Conservatism is maintaining the current status quote. There is no actual set of ideologies for Conservatives. It depends on the Nation.

Conservatives now would be considered Liberal during the 1800s. Conservatives in America would be considered Liberal in Switzerland or Cuba.

Conservatives in America wish to preserve what they find to be Traditional America. This is why they tend to be against any kind of Progressive movement. But, it's not that crazy to suggest that current Conservatives will become Liberal in only 20 years when there is Universal Health Care, restrictions on guns, and amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Libertarianism is an ideological movement that lays mainly in the middle of the Conservative/Liberal scale. Libertarians have specific beliefs (isolationism, laissez faire capitalism, legalized narcotics prostitution and gambling, elimination of most government spending, etc.). Currently, the Conservative movement holds Libertarian, economic beliefs, but this is because this is how America has always been. It's naturally Conservative to support the traditional system of economics in America. Since America was created out of rebellion towards an Authoritarian government, it has always been a style of lesser government. Now, America is also supposed to have a freedom of choice enacted as well, but since drugs and prostitution has been hated by the masses more than liked, it has been illegal for the longest time. So Conservatives support the continued ban on narcotics and prostitution.

143 days ago | Tagged As: Depends on the Nation
- jafl(80) Disputed
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1 point  

You are confusing process conservatism with ideological conservatism. Process conservatism can exist at any point on the political spectrum. An American conservative opposes communism, but a conservative in the Soviet Union during the 1980s would have been someone who opposed Gorbachev’s reforms that ultimately lead to the destruction of Soviet communism.

Libertarianism is actually extremist and it can fall on either side of the political spectrum. Conservatives reject the libertarian/communist view of human nature. Libertarians believe humans will compete with each other to maximize their individual self-interest while communists believe humans will cooperate to do the same thing, but conservatives know that unregulated humans will maim, pillage and destroy, lie, steal, cheat or kill in the name of personal gain.

Libertarians and communists are on the same extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to government- they both believe government is unnecessary albeit for different reasons.

Libertarians and communists also share common views on religion and marriage- both rejecting both as restraints on freedom.

Communists want centralized economic planning by the proletariat while libertarians accept centralized economic planning by big business- both of which conservatives reject.

Both libertarians and communists reject the concept of the nation state- something that conservatives would embrace.

143 days ago
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Like the pyg said:

Conservatism is maintaining the current status quote.

We want what the founding fathers of America wanted. That simple.

I seriously recommend the book: Liberty and Tyranny, for those of you who are curious/critical.

142 days ago | Tagged As: founding fathers
- jafl(80) Disputed
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Again simply maintaining the status quo without any regard to where that status quo is located on the political spectrum is process conservatism, not ideological conservatism.

Wanting to return to what you believe the Founding Fathers had intended is not conservatism either. Wanting to go back to the way something was before makes you a reactionary by process and wanting the change needed to get there is liberalism by process and the further you are from the ideal that you want to get back to the more change there must be to get there and this could make you a radical by process.

142 days ago
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Conservatism is the socio-economic and political philosophy that strives to establish and maintain a stable, functional, self-sustaining and self-perpetuating society and to this end conservatives do not fear government for government’s sake in that they have no qualms about letting the government do what needs to be done to preserve society when the private sector cannot or will not take the action necessary to insure that preservation.

The fundamental principles of conservatism include (but may not be limited to):

1. Preserving natural resources even if this means limiting property rights or immediate profit for the sake of insuring that natural resources will be available to sustain future generations.

2. Maintaining a balanced budget at the personal, household and government level. Conservatives are not adverse to borrowing money for needful things because investment is a good way to insure future societal stability. Conservatives are willing to build things that are not needed today because they may be needed tomorrow. However, excessive debt leads to economic instability and must be avoided at all costs.

3. Preserving the nuclear family by upholding heterosexual monogamous marriage because the nuclear family is the only proper setting in which children can be raised to productive adulthood. Divorce and illegitimacy are the chief causes of poverty and crime and sex outside of marriage is the chief cause of divorce and illegitimacy. Unlike libertarians, conservatives do not oppose government regulation of sex.

4. Personal property must be preserved. Owning property means that you have a stake in preserving society lest your property be lost due to societal revolution. Your property can be disrupted by societal disorder so you have a vested interest in maintaining societal order. Conservatives do not claim an absolute right to use their property without government regulation, as libertarians do, because of #6.

5. Acceptance of necessary government with the provision that government powers are separated and balanced, because of #6. Conservatism does not automatically mean limited government. What is and is not excessive government is dependent on the context provided by society, time and place. What is excessive government power in peacetime may not be excessive during a war or other crisis situation.

6. Conservatives understand human nature. Conservatives know that when left to their own devices, without regulation by society or governmental forces, individuals cannot have the absolute enjoyment of their natural rights without infringing on the rights of others. By nature humans are greedy, self-centered and self-serving and their natural passions must be regulated to prevent chaos.

7. Conservatives respect religion as a stabilizing force for society, although whether or not conservatives support a government-mandated religion depends on the historical or cultural context involved.

8. Avoiding mass concentrations of wealth and poverty. To this end conservatives, unlike libertarians, do not accept laissez-faire economics. Conservatives understand the wealth equals power. Concentrate wealth and the wealthy can oppress the poor by their power. Concentrate poverty and the poor can oppress the wealth by their number. Economic markets must be regulated for the sake of preventing monopolies and maintaining consumer confidence in the safety and quality of the goods and services that are offered for sale. The value of money must be stable because deflation and inflation can both lead to economic chaos. Conservatives believe that in noblis oblige as a stabilizing force in society and they do not object to government welfare programs as long as they actually work and do not bust the budget and do not create a dependency on welfare.

"...Is it because liberty in the abstract may be classed amongst the blessings of mankind, that I am seriously to felicitate a madman, who has escaped from the protecting restraint and wholesome darkness of his cell, on his restoration to the enjoyment of light and liberty? Am I to congratulate a highwayman and murderer who has broke prison upon the recovery of his natural rights?"- Edmund Burke, British statesman, member of Parliament and advocate of the American cause during the Revolution

"I should, therefore, suspend my congratulations on the new liberty of France until I was informed how it had been combined with government, with public force, with the discipline and obedience of armies, with the collection of an effective and well-distributed revenue, with morality and religion, with the solidity of property, with peace and order, with civil and social manners. All these (in their way) are good things, too, and without them liberty is not a benefit whilst it lasts, and is not likely to continue long. The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do what they please; we ought to see what it will please them to do, before we risk congratulations which may be soon turned into complaints." – Edmund Burke

“The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.”- Alexander Hamilton, U.S. Army officer, New York delegate to the Constitutional Convention, co-author of the Federalist Papers and first United States Secretary of the Treasury.

“Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of man will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice without constraint.”- Alexander Hamilton

143 days ago
- iamdavidh(1849) Disputed
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1 point  

Okay jafl,

But what people calling themsleves "conservative" practice all of that? have ever heard of that definition, or would still call themselves "conservative" if they knew the definition?

It's all well and good to argue the technical meaning of a word, and those are great quotes at the end. But what good is it, when in real life, right now in politics, on the internet, on tv etc, this list of values has next to nothing to do with Conservatives? In fact are often quite the opposite of what present day "conservatives" believe and practice?

I believe strongly in the sanctity of the English language, but at some point if 1 person in the world is left who can define "conservatism" and everyone else in practice uses it as something completely different, I think it may be time to stop defining it in the way you state.

140 days ago
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