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Do you need to do good things to go to heaven, or could I live exactly how I do now, except instead of opposing religion and it's tyranny, embracing it? Should I be against same-sex marriage too?
Seriously, how far do I have to go to be Christian? Can I just worship any random, invented "higher power" sort of deity, or must it be Yahweh? Obviously, I must worship Jesus, but do I need to consider Jesus a god? Even though he only lived as a man, and coming back to life 2000 years ago could easily have been edited into the bible, should I still consider him a god? Or just a wise man?
If I don't think of him as a god, do I go to hell?
Also, what is your position on eating shellfish? Is it allowed, or is the risk of being cursed into hell too high?
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God" You do not need to do good things to go to heaven; however, you do need faith and with faith comes good works.
Love the person not the sin. I have many gay friends but I do not endorse what they do.
You must put your faith and trust in Christ and Christ alone. If you do this, you will understand the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Sin are three in one. Monotheism! You should believe him to have been risen form the dead as well as a wise man and as God.
If you do not believe he is God then you do not believe in Him. If you do not believe in him, then I must sorrowfully admit, eternal punishment is on the way......
Acts 10 is the story about Peter having a vision with God saying to him that the food that used to be unclean is now clean.... God also made Gentiles clean allowing for them to be saved! Isn't that wonderful?!!
People cannot live longer than 200 years, yet Adam is said to live over 800 years.
Fact #2.
The Bible claims a massive flood killed off all humans and all animals, except for the ones on the ark. We can assume fresh water and salt water fished died out because a flood would have been intoxicated them with either water that is too salty, too clear, too warm, or too cold.
The fact part comes in here: There is no proof at all for a flood ever happening. Even rainbows are a natural occurrence that have an explanation.
Fact #3.
How does the Bible compete with the Koran? The Torah? The Vedas? Norse myth? Greek myth? Egyptian myth? Ancient cro-magnon burial sites containing artifacts that are older than all of those religions?
The Bible is a bad moral guide as well, the first few of the Ten Commandments are "Worship God", the rest are included in most nation's laws, except religious nations, like in the Middle-East where they still behead and bomb people because of their religion, also based on the God of Abraham, containing the same genesis story. This proves the Bible is not the only religion, and because there are others based on the exact same kind of blind faith, to say one is better or more logical than another is false, making this fact true.
Fact #4.
People cannot come back from the dead. Despite the Bible saying Jesus came back from the dead, there are no other sources claiming that ever happened. Also, there is a tale in that Bible claiming Jesus brought someone else back from death.
That would mean there were two people resurrected, both in the same book that is filled with contradictions, unfair or useless laws, and stories of horror brought on by your god of fire and floods that would make children cry.
It cannot be possible to bring a fully dead person back to life. Either Judas kissed a fake Jesus, or Jesus survived, or he died, and a hundred years later, people edited the manuscripts to state that he came back.
To say he came back, despite the fact that the beginning of the Bible is false, despite the fact that Jesus seemed like a completely ordinary geek genius who rebelled against his religion the same way an atheist would be untrue.
Fact #5.
If the Bible was the Holy Book of God the Almighty, He who created the universe and all that reside within, if this God of ultimate knowledge and power and wisdom and love truly exists as a true god, rather than as a fictional myth, then why does he make so many mistakes, and why are the solutions so often death?
The crusades, just like how the Bible was said to be inspired from God, were inspired from God as well, says the pope of that time.
Homophobia now is almost completely lead by Christians, which to anyone like me, seems extremely cruel, to pick on one sort of person like that, simply because of their sexuality.
Not to mention all the other religious murders in the past. Witch burning, the Inquisition.
And if you say "Silly atheist, that's what MEN did. No god is that wicked, these people only misinterpret and want power and money" then what about passover? A celebration of death. Painting the blood of animals on your door saved you a horrible fate, and if you didn't what happened? Children died. Don't forget the 7 Plagues of Egypt.
Of course, did that actually happen, or is it just a made up myth that a bunch of angry slaves made up waaay back?
I do not think it happened, or god would kill off all gays or all muslims.
Perhaps children would stop being born into poverty and starvation.
Perhaps if your god was real, he could kill off all the bad people. He is a fan of killing, according to the Bible that I have proven false.
I do not think you can back up the Bible except with blind belief, but belief is not knowledge.
Science is Latin for knowledge, and I would trust science, because science is based on observation.
By your explanation I can prove that there are no such things as facts. A good look at any history book or any news cast will prove this to be true. According to you any hype or exaggeration deems all untrue.
In following your line of thinking if a sports commentator says that Lebron James flew then it must also be true that Lebron James does not exist because he cannot literally fly. Historians agree that Jesus lived and we all know Lebron James also lives. Therefore your entire arguement is based only on your opinion and based on nothing but your opinion. Still waiting for proof.
A lie or misunderstanding is something that a person can say.
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A news caster will say an event happened. If that event did not happen, then it's not a fact, it's a lie.
If that event did happen, then it's a fact that event happened, even if no one knows about it.
Like with religion, if your god exists, and no one has ever seen it, then it still exists even if people say it doesn't.
And the other way is that no matter how much you try to claim your god exists, if it doesn't exist, you can't change the fact that it doesn't exist.
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You can deny proof and evidence and arguments and logic all you want. I gave you what I felt were facts concerning a fictional book. If you really believe in the supernatural, then I have nothing more to say to you.
It is commonly accepted that you can't prove a negative.
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In a court of law, you need evidence to prove something.
In science, you need evidence to prove something.
With nearly anything not related to religion, you are expected to have evidence that works and can convince people.
You have given nothing convincing besides the fact that Jesus existed according to historians and that the Bible exists.
Is Jesus a god or a man? Is the Bible holy truth or just fiction?
That is not something I can prove. It looks like a book. I am holding a Bible in my hands right now. It's not glowing or anything.
I don't think that your religion is right.
Anyways, why not read my fact list again, and even if they are opinions, do you think they are WISE opinions? Or do you blindly attack the opposition?
Of coarse you don't understand, if this was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Let clarify it for you, does Lebron James exist? Whether he flew or not is not relative. Did Jesus exist? What is said in relation to them doesn't change the fact that both lived. Fact Jesus lived. Therefore the Bible is true as the truth is.
I don't know who Lebron James is. I don't know if he flew.
If he exists, then he exists. If he flew, then he flew.
If he did not fly, then he did not fly.
If he did not exist, then he did not exist.
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If Jesus existed, then he existed.
If Jesus did not exist, then he did not.
If Jesus was a god, and performed supernatural miracles, then that's what he did.
If he is not a god, and did not perform miracles, then he did not.
Because miracles are magic, or things that are impossible in normal reality, and because Jesus lived long ago, I cannot believe that he performed miracles. 500 years ago? America didn't even exist. None of us alive now existed, there is no way to know if the Pope actually did speak to god frequently, or if he made god's desire to have crusades and all that up.
I can't know if Jesus actually did miracles, or if someone made it all up.
In 2000 years, it is easy to edit documents and scripts.
I mean, didn't that one apostle see Jesus in a vision 100 years or so after Jesus died?
What if he was insane? What if he didn't see Jesus in a vision, but instead was plowing his field and found a box of old scrolls, the story changing from him finding scrolls to actually seeing Jesus?
Who knows? You can't know this, you can't go back in time and look.
Right now, I see several religions existing, all saying "You're wrong" to each other, and I'm looking at it without religion, and I see a bunch of people comparing who has the most powerful magic god, or prophets.
You look silly to me. All of humanity's religions all look the same, yet different enough to realize that it's all invented by humans.
I would not trust the Bible, if I were you. I would look towards things you can know for sure. If a god exists, unless he's extremely evil, I doubt he will care if you didn't believe in his stuff.
It's fine to be an atheist, or agnostic, you know...
I'm done with this debate based solely on your own ignorance and inability to even attempt to do a little research, which would have required very little effort (already on the Internet).
One doesn't even have to know who Lebron James is to fully comprehend this example. Just wondering if you know who is President?
ok here is some proof be sure to read it all because you seem to have ignored it thet first time.
Fact #1.
People cannot live longer than 200 years, yet Adam is said to live over 800 years.
Fact #2.
The Bible claims a massive flood killed off all humans and all animals, except for the ones on the ark. We can assume fresh water and salt water fished died out because a flood would have been intoxicated them with either water that is too salty, too clear, too warm, or too cold.
The fact part comes in here: There is no proof at all for a flood ever happening. Even rainbows are a natural occurrence that have an explanation.
Fact #3.
How does the Bible compete with the Koran? The Torah? The Vedas? Norse myth? Greek myth? Egyptian myth? Ancient cro-magnon burial sites containing artifacts that are older than all of those religions?
The Bible is a bad moral guide as well, the first few of the Ten Commandments are "Worship God", the rest are included in most nation's laws, except religious nations, like in the Middle-East where they still behead and bomb people because of their religion, also based on the God of Abraham, containing the same genesis story. This proves the Bible is not the only religion, and because there are others based on the exact same kind of blind faith, to say one is better or more logical than another is false, making this fact true.
Fact #4.
People cannot come back from the dead. Despite the Bible saying Jesus came back from the dead, there are no other sources claiming that ever happened. Also, there is a tale in that Bible claiming Jesus brought someone else back from death.
That would mean there were two people resurrected, both in the same book that is filled with contradictions, unfair or useless laws, and stories of horror brought on by your god of fire and floods that would make children cry.
It cannot be possible to bring a fully dead person back to life. Either Judas kissed a fake Jesus, or Jesus survived, or he died, and a hundred years later, people edited the manuscripts to state that he came back.
To say he came back, despite the fact that the beginning of the Bible is false, despite the fact that Jesus seemed like a completely ordinary geek genius who rebelled against his religion the same way an atheist would be untrue.
Fact #5.
If the Bible was the Holy Book of God the Almighty, He who created the universe and all that reside within, if this God of ultimate knowledge and power and wisdom and love truly exists as a true god, rather than as a fictional myth, then why does he make so many mistakes, and why are the solutions so often death?
The crusades, just like how the Bible was said to be inspired from God, were inspired from God as well, says the pope of that time.
Homophobia now is almost completely lead by Christians, which to anyone like me, seems extremely cruel, to pick on one sort of person like that, simply because of their sexuality.
Not to mention all the other religious murders in the past. Witch burning, the Inquisition.
And if you say "Silly atheist, that's what MEN did. No god is that wicked, these people only misinterpret and want power and money" then what about passover? A celebration of death. Painting the blood of animals on your door saved you a horrible fate, and if you didn't what happened? Children died. Don't forget the 7 Plagues of Egypt.
Of course, did that actually happen, or is it just a made up myth that a bunch of angry slaves made up waaay back?
I do not think it happened, or god would kill off all gays or all muslims.
Perhaps children would stop being born into poverty and starvation.
Perhaps if your god was real, he could kill off all the bad people. He is a fan of killing, according to the Bible that I have proven false.
I do not think you can back up the Bible except with blind belief, but belief is not knowledge.
Science is Latin for knowledge, and I would trust science, because science is based on observation.
So the fact that people cant live for 800 years is just an opinion? So the proof that the great flood never happened is an opinion? So the fact the people cant come back from the dead is just an opinion?
I'm not a theistic person for the following reasons (not limited to):
- there truly isn't a strain of valid evidence that supports Christianity, let alone the other religions
- you're a Christian for one reason, and one reason only: you happened to have been in the right place at the right time to have learned about Christianity; maybe it was your mother or your father. Maybe you were brought up in Alabama 40 years ago. The possibilities are endless. But 99.99% of the time, your religion is directly correlated with your geographic location at the time of your upbringing.
- like I said above, you had so many religions to pick from. Why Christianity? What's made your religion the most valid out of the hundreds of thousands of others?
- just, for a second, look at history! Religion was created by humans, hands down. To dispute that would go against every historical fact and find that has ever been.
Your religion is false. I don't understand why you can't accept it! Before you rant about how I need to be saved, literally read and analyze the bullet points above.
I did grow up going to a Christian school but my mother was not Christian... She in fact can't stand the fact that I am one... she pushed hard for me not to be one and tried to convert me out of it.
I never chose Christianity... God chose me! Thats what many people don't understand.. its not a choice... But I believe mine to be valid because Christ was a real person and there is quite a lot of evidence in support of him.
I could never convert back to that death cult that teaches self-hatred and misplaced guilt.
And ideology so strongly rooted in the notion that there is something wrong with being human can't be good. For the imaginary crime of a couple humans being true to the human nature created by god, all of humanity is supposedly born in a state of constant sin, and the only way to avoid being tortured for all of this is to spend your whole life worshiping and submitting. All rewards for your good behavior will be rewarded in death. That's Christianity in a nutshell.
So perhaps you should tell me why I would want anything to do with a mind-virus so degrading that it makes me feel sorry for the people afflicted with it.
I promise you're not going to convert anyone on this site. lol Not trying to be rude, I'm just not use to seeing someone be so obvious about trying to convert people on here.
Definitely not worth defining the universe with. If you believe that some bearded white guy (who shouldn't even be white, as he grew up in the middle-east) was the son of the incarnation of existence, your imagination must be retarded or trapped.
A Christian does not lie when he says "God is real."
However, if that statement is false, and I say, "No, God isn't real, and here's why."
And I give them the facts that the big bang can explain the universe existing, that abiogenesis is a possible explanation for life, and that evolution gives specification, combined with TONS of other science, and then I would tell them about the other religions that compete, their history, all bound in human invention and blood.
And when they say, "No, you're wrong! You're blind to my god, or you aren't looking!"
You must've fallen very very hard when you were young... Not joking nor intending to insult, simply stating a highly possible occurrence.
Only insane people accept something that doesn't exist, and something that has no evidence proving its existence, into their life and as real. I'd suggest you look for some professional help. Seriously, you need it, or stop giving others your very stupid comments and try to begin using your own mind.
You must've fallen very very hard when you were young... Not joking nor intending to insult, simply stating a highly possible occurrence.
Nope I didn't hit my head and it was my choice because I saw it in my parents and my parents set a good example for me when I was really young and they cared about me and showed their love of Christ in them to me.
Only insane people accept something that doesn't exist, and something that has no evidence proving its existence, into their life and as real. I'd suggest you look for some professional help. Seriously, you need it, or stop giving others your very stupid comments and try to begin using your own mind.
Their is proof that Jesus Christ was on this earth and evidence that he rose from dead, but you don't count that as evidence and you fail to realize the truth.
I don't need help! Your the one who needs help! You don't believe in God and you don't know the truth at all. I already have help and that's Jesus Christ. And if you call that stupid you are totally lost! You need the real help.
And what you said above may not have been insulting to you but you actually insulted me but I am not bothered by it. Its ok you can insult me as much as you want and all that you like because I am a Christian and if Jesus was insulted I will be insulted too.
Their is proof that Jesus Christ was on this earth and evidence that he rose from dead, but you don't count that as evidence and you fail to realize the truth.
You clearly have no idea what evidence means. Truth hurts and you go for fantasy as reality, nice (not really). So what does your imaginary friend "unicorn" say about all that?
I don't need help! Your the one who needs help! You don't believe in God and you don't know the truth at all.
Yeah... you see, help in becoming insane is not exactly good for a person. So no, but thanks for offering.
And if you call that stupid you are totally lost! You need the real help.
You don't see the stupidity in that and I am the one who needs help? A little contradictive is it not?
And what you said above may not have been insulting to you but you actually insulted me but I am not bothered by it.
You clearly are bothered by truth it seems.
Its ok you can insult me as much as you want and all that you like because I am a Christian and if Jesus was insulted I will be insulted too.
You clearly have no idea what evidence means. Truth hurts and you go for fantasy as reality, nice (not really). So what does your imaginary friend "unicorn" say about all that?
I do know what evidence means. Ok I will give you evidence even tho you probably will not even consider it evidence.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all four who were Jesus saw Jesus perform miracles and saw him die on the cross and rose from the grave. Those are four people who have different writing styles but all believe in the same thing that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.
You also have more then 500 eyewitnesses that saw Jesus when He rose from the grave.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all four who were Jesus saw Jesus perform miracles and saw him die on the cross and rose from the grave. Those are four people who have different writing styles but all believe in the same thing that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.
You also have more then 500 eyewitnesses that saw Jesus when He rose from the grave.
As I said. "You clearly have no idea what evidence means". Now to your new argument, you proved that you don't know what evidence means.
That's good keep on doing what you are doing.
I said, "That actually made me laugh..." because what you said was ludicrous. You do know what ludicrous means? Just in case... it means that something is so ridiculous that it makes one laugh.
As I said. "You clearly have no idea what evidence means". Now to your new argument, you proved that you don't know what evidence means.
I do know what evidence means it means that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
I said, "That actually made me laugh..." because what you said was ludicrous. You do know what ludicrous means? Just in case... it means that something is so ridiculous that it makes one laugh.
Exactly my point I gave you evidence and you didn't accept what my evidence was.
What you gave me was not evidence.
What was the point of you even disputing my argument about how I said accepted Jesus Christ when I was in 4th grade and I want to get baptized soon.
You said, "Jesus Christ. I have accepted him into my life in 4th grade." So stupid... If he ever existed he's been dead for some two thousand years. You must've hit your head really hard.
Then what is evidence to you huh? What kind of evidence do you seek?
You said, "Jesus Christ. I have accepted him into my life in 4th grade." So stupid... If he ever existed he's been dead for some two thousand years. You must've hit your head really hard.
Jesus Christ did exist because there was over 500 witnesses that saw him when he rose from the grave and also they wrote about him on this earth. How do you explain the empty tomb that Jesus was in? It's empty and if its empty that means he did exist/ he rose from the grave.
Then what is evidence to you huh? What kind of evidence do you seek?
First, learn the definition of evidence.
Jesus Christ did exist because there was over 500 witnesses that saw him when he rose from the grave and also they wrote about him on this earth. How do you explain the empty tomb that Jesus was in? It's empty and if its empty that means he did exist/ he rose from the grave.
Yes, and as I said, it is not evidence. Want to know why? Prove that that is what really happened. You can't. Want to know why? Because there is no evidence, not to mention that the biggest likelihood is that none of it ever happened.
How do you explain the empty tomb that Jesus was in?
Simple. Because Jesus never existed in the first pace. The tomb was built merely to fool people like you; it makes a great story of rising from dead for credulous people such as yourself.
It's empty and if its empty that means he did exist/ he rose from the grave.
It does not mean he existed or that he exists. The fact that it is empty means it was built merely to fool people like you, there was never a Jesus. If there was then he's long dead and rotten to bones, and he was kept out of that place, again, to fool people like you into submission, into slavery. And it is all still working great, as it obviously seems.
Which Jesus Christ? The one on the Avenida Atlântica in Brazil, or the one in Kentucky?
Are you really that foolish? I am talking about Jesus Christ who was in the Bible.
How does your Jesus Christ have any more evidence than those two fellows?
Well most of the people actually saw Jesus Christ and were eyewitnesses that saw Jesus perform miracles and more than 500 people saw Jesus when He rose from the grave.
The bible? I actually found a book for both of these fellows.. Must be real!
Probably false because Jesus said that many people will come in my name proclaim I am He and he said don't fall for them.
Well most of the people actually saw Jesus Christ and were eyewitnesses that saw Jesus perform miracles and more than 500 people saw Jesus when He rose from the grave.
Hey! That's actually true of the two fellows I mentioned earlier. They both had hundreds of witnesses when they preformed miracles.
Probably false because Jesus said that many people will come in my name proclaim I am He and he said don't fall for them.
No, it's not false. In fact, those people I mentioned before's bibles mentioned the same thing.. weird.
You treat "him" with such respect.. you even capitalize his name! Even when it's a pronoun! He must be such a swell person who's helped so many people!
He is the one who died for me... He is the one who cares for me... He is the one who loves me... He is the Creator and the Alpha and the Omega.... He is worthy to be praised!
He is the one who died for me... He is the one who cares for me... He is the one who loves me... He is the Creator and the Alpha and the Omega.... He is worthy to be praised!
I don't know if he's trolling, really. With a name like lolzors, who knows.
But there are people like that in real life, and one must never underestimate human stupidity.
They love to believe things, and a Christian on a debate site like this would have TONS of conflicting information in his head.
I mean, he's read all the logic, so it makes sense in his brain, but he's unable to come to terms with it.
This has pretty much short circuited him. I'm surprised he is even able to breath.
His mind or brain must be a complete psychological disaster, verging on pure insanity.
Or perhaps he has already reached that last, critical stage. Perhaps he has already broken down and is unable to do anything but repeat bible verses and christian catchphrases. He is in a robotic stage now. He is able to use a computer, and he drives to work based on instinct and what he was taught, he has a simple, repetitive job, where he remains anti-social, except the four times he's attempted to convert people using a mass of raw sausage, and the head of a yellow rubber duck, and having been met with failure, he comes here, sitting in his computer chair, a single strand of drool issuing from his mouth as he types his praises to his god manically into the computer, submitting post after post of pure nonsense and drivel.
We call him a troll, but he is past that point. His brain has already broken down into a mess of chaos and disaster.
Sure. I'd sincerely be happy to accept Jesus Christ, as soon as you prove to me why I should (which includes demonstrably validating the existence, claims, then moral and logical justification).
The following are Christian cites, yes, because they have researched and actually found the truth which validates the Bible from non-Christian sources.... and many of them are hostile to the Christian nation.
Based no these, He was real and did unexplainable magic that led Israel astray (according to Jewish historians). Determining if one was actually from God or not in the Jewish days was to see if one actually was able to do miraculous deeds... He did these deeds and supposedly was seen after his death!
What do you mean by moral and logical justification?
If God is God, then He makes the rules and determines what is moral and not moral...
We are here... based on the Law of Biogenesis we could not have come from non-life because NO life comes from non-life...
