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Could You Really Be Happy In Heaven?
This is a debate for those who believe in the existence of Hell:
If you make it to Heaven but your spouse doesn't, could you really be happy in Heaven knowing that your spouse is down there suffering every day while you are up there in Heaven without your spouse by your side?
As I don't disagree with any of your points raised, I don't think you give reasons for the argument at hand. I also think that the points raised would be more useful on the other side of the debate
How long are you going to have it? So you believe you came from nothing and are returning to nothing? So nothing matters and all you really have is nothing?
I say you can't make yourself un-exist in death and you think you are going to prove that you un-exist in death.
You are right, you could never be happy in heaven because you can't get there the way you are going. All you can get is death the way you are going, and if you think that's heaven and that's what you want, that's what you will get...and you won't like it after you get it, in fact you will wish to the God you have rejected that you could get out of it but you never will because you are choosing it and your choice will be final soon if you don't reconsider what you are doing to yourself. You are propelling yourself away from God into Hell forever and God is trying to save you from it....but who knows, maybe I'm wrong, maybe God gave up on you and has already let you go your own way forever.
Well I'm sorry you feel your existence is so meaningless. I felt that way for a long time before I realized God loves me. Now I know I can follow Jesus through death into eternal life. I know God values me so much that He died in my place, paid my price, so I don't have to pay in Hell. I know the LIFE MEANS GOD IS GOOD because GOD GIVES LIFE. It's really very simple.
God gives life.
God loves you.
Life means God is good.
The meaning of life is that God is good.
I guess if God is not giving you life, then you don't get it, do you?
I don't have to validate anything, God does not have to validate anything other than your existence defying Him. How can God validate your existence when you hate Him? If you answer "Hell validates my existence as a hater of my Creator", you answered correctly.
"Validate" is a powerful word. How do you validate your existence? Is your existence valid at all? If your existence is valid now, is it invalidated in death and was therefore never valid to start with?
My sins are forgiven, I'm happy now because I know it but the happiness I have now is nothing to compare with the happiness I will have throughout eternity in heaven when I am forever changed to be exactly like Jesus after my body of sin is destroyed and I will never sin again. I will forever give all the honor, glory, and praise that is due to my Creator who died in my place to be my Savior, and I will enjoy all the blessings of His Kingdom serving Him in perfect joy and freedom with nothing but love for Him and for all things, people, and creatures in His Heaven, when all discord of discontentment is forever consigned to the Lake of Fire from which no cries will be heard but the smoke of their torments will rise forever as a testimonial to God's goodness for making a way to forever keep His heaven free from discord forever and ever and ever......and there will NEVER be another rebellion against God heard among the living, because the living will be in Heaven and the dying will be in Hell where it belongs.
If you make it to Heaven but your spouse doesn't, could you really be happy in Heaven knowing that your spouse is down there suffering every day while you are up there in Heaven without your spouse by your side?
Yes because you have your other brothers and sister in Christ and you get to see Jesus. There is no crying in Heaven, and no worry because it's taken away, but I know my spouse would make it to heaven because I plan on marrying someone who is a Christian like myself.
Are your ideas about heaven based on hearsay or hard fact? How do the amazing claims of people who say they have been to heaven line up with the Bible's own description? And what will we do once we're in heaven? ... Finding the answers is simple: piece together the biblical details, sift out the popular myths, and you have an amazingly accurate picture of heaven, angels, and the afterlife ... That's what John MacArthur does in his classic, best-selling study with the simple title—Heaven .... http://www.gty.org/products/Audio-Series/175_Heaven < enjoy
That is, If I had to listen to the likes of Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaegart (sp?), and countless others who seemed to have a direct line to "the man". I'd rather be with Voltaire, Madison, Jefferson, Epicurus, Adams, Paine, Edison, Shaw...etc.
You left out Jesus Christ because you are not man enough for Him. Any coward can insult television preachers, or insult me. You can insult Jesus Christ and be heard by the living as long as you have air to breathe. They are not your judges. Jesus Christ is, and you are trampling His blood under your feet and will stand before Him in Judgement He died for you to save you from Hell, none of the people you hold as your equals or inspirations can save themselves from death, let alone save you. You need to be saved or you will be lost. Claiming that you are as good as Jesus Christ won't get you anything but Hell.
God is offering you a direct line to Himself through His blood in Jesus Christ. To get in touch with God you have to admit that you are the one who deserves death and Hell and believe Jesus is God incarnate who took your death so you can be forgiven in His resurrection, and direct your lines (words) toward God and enter into agreement with Him.
If you could prove that Jesus Christ lived, was born of a virgin, turned water into wine, died on a cross, came back to life and is the son of God, that would be great, maybe then we'll take you seriously
I'm sorry, but while reading this is immediately presumed that you were mentally ill. Only an irrational, bible-spouting lunatic would write anything as absurd as what you wrote.
You appear to be on a debating forum, yet it would appear as though you have not debated the existence of what you believe in at all. If you were in a debate with Pfsr. Richard Dawkins, you would be one, speechless, two, educated and three given the opportunity to realise that what you call 'faith' is just a fallacy and is actually quite damaging.
Dawkins is a fool and if you think his hatefulness against Christians and his hatefulness against God offers anything good, you are a fool too.
You think you are proving that you have the right to exist outside of Hell and God does not rule over you. That is as foolish as a human being can be. No matter how much education you have, no matter how high your IQ, when you hold the position of pretending to be smarter and more powerful than God, you are a fool and you are getting what you deserve if you don't get saved from Hell.
Atheist will always resort to what you did....a paragraph full on hateful insults. When I debate with atheists, it does not take long before the insults such as yours are reduced to foul mouth cussing and nothing but a few simple minded cliché's which are supposed to be unanswerable such as "I have no god-belief" or "you present no evidence of God"....brainless little clichés.
The simple fact of the matter is that atheists want to believe that they forever have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell because they want to fool themselves and they are doing a pretty good job of it.
Dawkins want's Christians to be speechless alright. I'm sure he and you would both cheer to see Christians thrown to the lions or burned at the stake. That's the only way you can stop a real believer from saying God is good and Jesus is God the Savior.
You call yourself thinker...you need to think past your dying to where you are going, because you need to be saved from Hell or you will be lost to it. Sit there as long as you can and think and remain wise in your own conceits and see where it gets you if that's the way you want to go out. I feel sorry for you because right now I know where you are going and you won't think you are smart if you don't get saved before you get there.
How can you think that a PROFESSOR is a fool. I'm sure he's spent a lot more time thinking, debating and rationalising than you have, purely because he actually is intelligent. Dawkins doesn't show 'hatefulness' towards Christians, he believes that what should be known is the truth and just because you are 'offended' by his claims doesn't mean that you are right.
I have the right to be whoever the hell I want to be and God, you or anyone else can't change that. How dare you say that I am foolish and you aren't when clearly your lack of thought and rationality suggests otherwise. I don't want to be saved from Hell, because I think I'd get to rather like Satan if I got to know him. Let's put things in perspective:
God = All things cruel and painful in the world (because he made them), all things pestilent and annoying (because he made them) etc. etc.
Satan = All things that God doesn't want you to do, which is: Be who you are, awesome music, drugs, sex, rational thinking etc. etc.
So I think I choose Satan, he sounds like a top lad.
I wouldn't cheer if I saw Christians being thrown to the fire or lions, because it's just not nice. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't mean I think they should be killed. I wouldn't mind seeing the reduction of Christianity in the world from people actually using their heads and the brain that they were given to think and rationalise but I don't see that happening amongst the stubborn population that you fit in.
I have thought about what is going to happen after I die, so has everyone else. The thing that differs between you and me is that I'm not sugarcoating the fact that I'm going to die. When you die, you die, that's it. I'd rather enjoy the life that I've been given now than wait for the life that I'm not sure that I will have when I die. Now that is foolish.
I hope that when you read this you feel disgusted, annoyed and displeasured at the better life that I am going to lead in the end.
So what do you get out of atheism? hopelessness? Life is meaningless? You stil get all of the pain, suffering, and evil in the world, but when you can't blame it on God, neither can you hope God will make things right, so your only hope is to get out of reality in death because reality is full of pain, suffering, and evil. The only problem is that you cannot prove you have the right, as a person who is in violation against God, to exist outside of the fire of Hell.
Anybody who says there is no God is a fool. Any fool can take some biology classes and become a professor. Don't let people fool you by putting them on a pedestal based on their education level.
It's not about what anyone 'gets out of atheism'. There are no benefits or drawbacks from being an atheist, that's the whole point. Being an atheist is just acknowledging that the scientific method produces evidence. God cannot be tested for via the scientific method, therefore he doesn't exist.
When you talk about life having God-given 'meaning' you are simply eluding yourself. I'm not saying life is meaningless as such, more that in the grand scheme of the universe human existence is merely a blip. That doesn't mean that you can't have personal meaning, and by all means make that God. All I'm saying is, through rational thought it doesn't make sense that a God exists. I realise there are many unexplained phenomena in our universe, but I'm not advocating that they leave a God shaped hole. I believe that the universe, whether sooner or later, can be explained through logical argument and scientific evidence.
Again, I acknowledge that there is pain and suffering in the world that we are subject to, however I don't expect a God to make things better or be responsible for this suffering. It is merely the workings of the universe. Nature is both beautiful and disgusting.
I agree that anyone could put the effort in to become a professor, but how can they be a fool if they did put the effort in? Richard Dawkins is not a fool just because you don't agree with what he says. I agree he may be confrontational in his approach to Christianity, but his aim is not to belittle Christianity but to urge people to think differently and realise that scientific evidence is the best way to discover truths about our universe.
All you get out of atheism is nothing, all it has is death which binds you taking you to Hell in your sin, all you get in atheism is JUSTICE while you try to deny justice.
In response to this... please construct your own arguments rather than just copy and pasting hour long videos. Or maybe its that you dont have to sophistication to determine which points of his are most valid and how to construct an argument based upon them? It would be a lot more effective.
All you get out of atheism is nothing, all it has is death which binds you taking you to Hell in your sin, all you get in atheism is JUSTICE while you try to deny justice.
Thats the crux of your issue. You want to avoid justice so you choose Christianity. What is the evil thing you have done in your past that makes you need such fantasy.
All you get out of atheism is nothing, all it has is death which binds you taking you to Hell in your sin, all you get in atheism is JUSTICE while you try to deny justice.
I "left out Jesus Christ" simply because I do not consider him the "Son of God". I admire what appears to be a "man" who truly existed, a charismatic one, apparently, and a man of good. Most evidence seems to reflect tht. The imaginations of zealots, I believe, have blown his life out of proportion and made him a martyr. I'm really glad that he (apparently) had a mostly good influence, both in the Christian AND Muslim religions. It's strange how the zealots of each see his position AND his words in different ways. When you mix thought with "gods", you usually get a lot of radicalism. Obviously there are confused radicals on both sides who get their "thought" from earlier radicals.
if you go outside and ask anyone their ideas of joy and happiness , they would talk of the joys they have in this present life (marriage, celebration etc.) but as the saying goes all good things must come to an end. This, you could say, is a trait of bliss. Now if we think of heaven, it happens in the realm of eternity. If we sit down and think about eternity, it is quite scaremongering, an idea of no end, no matter the amount of joy, is a frightening (and thankfully not true) place. Heaven is just hell in the clouds. Secondly the idea that a god could have the right to punish people for death, despite his mass genocide of the whole planet, bar a few people. If we're judging the morals on the bible (and I challenge theists to think of another), then this perfect palace of bliss is full of homophobes, slave masters and the entire westboro baptist church, all of which are not worthy of my company. Thirdly, the nerve of a god to separate family's for all eternity would be, in every sense, an eternity of hell for the family's.
The only way you can really prove you are not a homophobe is to bend over for them and let them abuse you....unless of course you are not afraid to stand up against them, proving you are not afraid of them by being brave enough to die before you let them abuse you.
I don't have to bend over to not be a homophobe, I just have to treat them as human beings, of which they are. I don't think you have a strong grasp of the English language as well, maybe that's something you should take into consideration
The question raises a problem for those who believe in the orthodox view that Hell is eternal, but there are many Christian intellectuals who reject the doctrine of eternal hellfire as a polarized opposite of heaven with biblical proofs in support of an alternative more unified outcome.
If there is no Hell, there is no reason for anybody to refrain from doing any evil they feel like doing. There is no reason for them to listen to you because you are teaching that they will be relieved from punishment. By your false teaching, even if they are Muslim murders or sodomizers of dogs and beasts, they are automatically forgiven.
The people you are quoting are teaching doctrines of demons from Hell designed to deceive people into believing they are exempt from punishment in death. The Bible says false teachers will receive extra punishment in Hell for leading people in their heresy, and it is JUSTICE from God.
If there is no Hell, there is no reason for anybody to refrain from doing any evil they feel like doing.
You're telling me that the only thing keeping you from offing people for shoes is thinking you will get punished for it?
Your schtick isn't for youth group is it? Is your fire and brimstone bit kind of like a "scared straight" type approach for wayward teens? You have to get them sooner or they will be prone to do things that you wish they wouldn't do; like ask questions.
If there is no Hell, there is no reason for anybody to refrain from doing any evil they feel like doing….. The Bible says false teachers will receive extra punishment in Hell for leading people in their heresy, and it is JUSTICE from God.
So everyone should be inspired by fear?
According to modern psychology, fear is closely related to cruelty and hatred.
The alternative would be inspiration by love which requires a real transformation of the heart.
Not if someone I love was burning in Hell. I'd be one of those burning in Hell but I know how I'd feel about the ones I care for being hurt. I guess God wouldn't give me much of an option... I heard several Christians talk about how wonderful it would be to be in Heaven watching everyone else burn.
Hell is the only afterlife I wish for myself and my spouse, I wish to spank her and let her know I am boss for eternity and her to accept me as her one true master, which I will have to fight many souls for the right of being.
In heaven, I cannot be the alpha male as Jesus is overpowered but Satan has some weaknesses and is hated (and heated) enough by God for me to bargain some counter-abilities to overcome him at some point.
There is no point to existence whatsoever, and if there were I doubt it would be for that existence to end. You are describing an inevitability as if it were a purpose, without explaining why that follows.
The inevitability of death does not make immortality illogical, merely impossible. And, of course, if heaven really did exist as the prompt suggests then mortality does not exist and your argument would necessarily conclude the opposite: that mortality is illogical.
