CreateDebate


Debate Info

Debate Score:54
Arguments:67
Total Votes:55
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Could a machine think ? (48)

Debate Creator

Dermot(3644) pic



Could a machine think ?

Add New Argument

Computers do what they are programmed to do. Giving them consciousness is impossible. Otherwise one could be programmed to wake up with you inside of its mind. Good luck with that.

Dermot(3644) Disputed
1 point

You're so witty , well I'm certainly in your mind as you post up yet another debate in homage of me , you are getting rather obsessive

1 point

Hello D:

Yeah... We've both got little puppy dogs following us around... I kinda like it...

excon

1 point

You like licking hairy nut sacks. Anything else dermot? *

Mint_tea(2513) Clarified
1 point

The really cool, again terrifying, thing is....they can supersede their original algorithms and instructions.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604087/the-dark-secret-at-the-heart-of-ai/

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/15/google thinkingmachines/

John_C_1812(136) Disputed
1 point

Consciousness is only a state of thinking not requirement to all ways too thought. Subconscious thought is still thought. Computers think on a subconscious level and not self-conscious level. The pattern of thought is created by a programmer. Computer think, the irony is that computer thinks in a way that describes a human as mentally ill.

1 point

How would one go about creating an AI that thinks on a self conscious level...

doesnotequal(6) Disputed
1 point

Not true at all. The human brain is essentially one big computer, except instead of running off simple on/off states like a normal computer does information is processed through chemical transfers and electric signals. There's no reason a computer can't reach consciousness if humans can. There's no special laws of the universe that apply to humans and nothing else.

Dermot(3644) Clarified
1 point

Hi Mint , fascinating stuff and some great links ; when I say think what does that mean ?

Well for a start I can understand language , puzzles , the spoken word , I can also enjoy experiences and feel emotions theses are the sort of things we are talking about when we say I can think .

Would you now say a machine could think ?

Mint_tea(2513) Clarified
1 point

Well. The computers in the articles, in my opinion, can by the qualification that you presented.

One created its own language as a means to produce better, more natural translations between languages, so by connection it should understand language.

If I recall correctly there is a computer that plays Chess, it is able to figure out puzzles.... hell, writing its own evolving code is a form of language and puzzle yet a computer was able to do that.

Now, emotion. Hm. I do not necessarily believe that thinking and emotion go hand in hand. There are some people who have what is called alexithymia, where they can't express or do not feel emotion.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150818-what-is-it-like-to-have-never-felt-an-emotion

Does that mean that the emotion doesn't exist for them at all? I'm really not too sure, but many who have it claim to feel zero emotions, nothing.

On the other side there are people who feel indifference, it's not an emotional state, simply the absence of emotion. Typically not permanent however they are able to think without feeling. So I can argue that emotion and thought are separate entities.

So I do still believe that a machine has the capacity to think under those qualifiers. Thoughts?

1 point

Hello D:

I dunno... What's a machine? Is a prosthetic leg a leg? Modern medicine has us sticking computer probes into our brain all the time. Some of them stay in our brains. We're gonna be doing MORE and MORE of that stuff. At some point in time, it may be hard to differentiate between our brain, and the machine inside it..

excon

1 point

Oh hey, that's a good point. What's a pace maker if not a machine, what about those devices that help people to hear or see, those are machines. Interesting point.

1 point

No a machine can't think that machine needs to be programmed by a human being

doesnotequal(6) Disputed
1 point

How come animals can think then? We're basically programmed from our DNA...

outlaw60(8861) Clarified
1 point

In your mind an animal is a machine so your saying a machine has DNA. Whatever you think !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John_C_1812(136) Disputed
1 point

No machine can think, one word processor. all machines think by basic principle Outlaw. I believe you are talking about comprehend, very few if any machines comprehend their thoughts. thinking, understanding, and the will to understand.

outlaw60(8861) Clarified
1 point

A machine can think really ???? So how does a machine you know like a lawnmower think ?

Sure it can, and much better than humans.

In fact, I intend to combine my brain with an ASI as my transhumanist objective, and have calculated out all the associated risks. It's worth a try.

If we are simply complex machines, someone will recreate or "reboot" you in the future somewhere if by chance alone in infinite time.

1 point

Of course they can. My 2009 car thinks I don't love it unless it makes me buy it new expensive things. I'll probably need to break up with it in a year or two. In the meantime I'm afraid it's going to stop on the highway and make me get out and walk.

1 point

I don't expect machines to ever achieve consciousness, but then again maybe they already have. In fact it's possible that all matter is already conscious. The only problem is we'll never be able to know if a machine is conscious, as it may have just learned how to act as if it's conscious.

1 point

Good points , yes what possible tests could be put forward to test whether the machine was acting as if it was conscious ?

1 point

I don't believe it's testable. Assertions of qualia might imply consciousness.

1 point

Can machines be configured or programmed such that they generate possible alternative realities based on a possible decision they could make, and select a decision that generates the best utility for them?

Yes: We can do that now.

If you're talking about "thinking" as more akin to how we perceive the world, or think about the world and problems (even including consciousness):

It's impossible to tell.

1 point

In my view "thinking" is merely a goal oriented action triggered by a need. Give a machine a need and you've cracked half the code. It does not have to be a human oriented need, the need can be fit for purpose. Trying to make a machine think like a human is the wrong approach entirely in my view. Other animals likely do not think very much like humans either and vice versa. How do you give a machine a need you say? Easy, it can be anything... one example could be to simulate a set of inputs/outputs in a controlled space/program and give an AI proponent in that space a set of self reinforcing rewards for certain actions. Remember that old snake game on the Nokia phones? Well a certain reward can be for the snake to get bigger without dying... it will soon learn what actions to pursue to fulfill that "need" and thus will start to think about its next actions if you code it correctly - it will over time become the best snake simulator/player of its own accord.

"Learning" is distinct from "thinking" and once again in my view learning is a system of ever increasingly complex association only. The fundamental/starting associations of living things are likely tied to those needs mentioned above (Likely also tied somehow to survival) and then built up into an immense construct/database of interlinked associations over time. This is how abstract thought occurs in us - we associate many things and concepts with many others in unique ways. Learning is also strongly tied to what senses are available to us or the AI in question. In that snake simulator you get to choose what senses to give that snake which will either inhibit or produce god-like capabilities of that snake. You can give it the ability to understand/sense the entire playing field or make it like a blind mole rat that can only sense 2 or 3 blocks in front of it.

My dream job is coding in artificial intelligence to realize my own personal view of AI but to date I hardly have any no coding skills :) So it will probably be a retirement project one day. The subject however intrigues me a lot.