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Did George Zimmerman Do Anything Wrong?
George Zimmerman is on trial for murdering Trayvon Martin. His argument is that he was forced to shoot Trayvon in self defense. Without going into whether Zimmerman should be found guilty or innocent, do you think that Zimmerman did something wrong that night?
Zimmerman should have stayed at his car when the police dispatcher told him not to follow Trayvon. The whole thiing would have been avoided. Plus, I think Zimmerman physically confronted Trayvon causing him to act in self defense.
The police dispatcher specifically told him to stay in his vehicle. He ignored her and now he's on trial for murder. He didn't leave his vehicle because he saw Martin breaking into a house; Zimmerman just wanted to be 'badass of the week'. It backfired on him and he ended up killing a kid who got spooked because a stranger was following him.
He doesn't deserve to be in prison for the rest of his life, but he does deserve manslaughter at the least.
In the other debate about whether he was guilty, Liam attacked me because I said the dispatcher told him to stay put. He said that the dispatcher only told him he didn't need to follow him, so I was wrong for saying it that way, hehe.
Liam's just trying to be politically correct. The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" after Zimmerman said he was following him, but common sense would tell you that the dispatcher wanted him to back off.
I just read the transcripts of his 911 call, which I had only listened too before. Martin started running about halfway through the call and Zimmerman started chasing him. That's when the dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow. To me, it sounds like Martin was spooked. He probably knew he wasn't supposed to be in that neighborhood without permission, but he likely planned on using it as a shortcut home. Somehow, Zimmerman caught up to the kid and confronted him and then Martin asked "why are you following me", and after that's when the story becomes two sided.
You're right! His dad was visiting his fiancee who lived in the neighborhood at the time of the shooting. So Trayvon wasn't really trespassing; he had a reason to be there.
A criminal? He was suspended from school for having traces of marijuana in his bag. Zimmerman has a larger criminal history than Martin. His ex put a restraining order against him for domestic violence and he had to attend a violent offenders course after he shoved a police officer.
He DID act on his assumption... he called the police, but he took it even further when he confronted Martin despite the fact that the police dispatcher wanted him to back off.
George Zimmerman absolutely did do something wrong. He defied the advice of the 911 dispatcher and decided to play tough cop with someone in his neighborhood. Now that someone is dead and "Officer Zimmerman" regrets all the bad mistakes he made that day.
Did Zimmerman do something wrong? Yes . . . and it's something he will never be able to escape wherever he goes, free man or not.
He could have stayed in his vehicle and avoided this whole thing easily. He could drive away or anything. Instead he pursued the boy. He killed him. He obviously wanted to kill him. It was a point blank shot to the chest. He could have shot him anywhere else.
That possibly isn't true. Zimmerman clearly wanted to make sure that Trayvon was around when the cops showed up. "These guys keep getting away", so maybe Trayvon needed to subdue Zimmerman to get away. In the course of stopping Zimmerman from attacking him he was shot.
Stronger and wiry only helps when fighting someone. Maybe Trayvon should have beat up Zimmerman until Zimmerman was too tired to pursue him any more. Oh wait, he started doing that.
Trayvon was way faster than Zimmerman. He could have gotten away when Zimmerman hit the ground. He would have gotten at least a few seconds head start. Zimmerman is not in shape by any stretch of the imagination and Trayvon was in the prime of his life ;)
Self defense includes running away and running away as a form of defense precludes shooting/killing someone. Zimmerman did NOT have the option to run away. ;)
When Zimmerman was in his car calling the cops, he was not being beaten up by Trayvon. How did he end up underneath Trayvon getting beaten? Because he did something wrong.
We know that Zimmerman was hostile towards Martin before approaching him, listen to his 911 call. I think it is safe to assume that he didn't just ask if Trayvon lived there.
Are you saying Zimmerman attacked Trayvon first with the intent to ask questions later? That doesn't appear to be his Mode of Operand. Zimmerman is a law abiding citizen who detests criminals. He would have verified his assumptions first. Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise. The fact that Zimmerman suspected Trayvon of being a criminal does not mean he immediately attacked him. Besides, it turned out that Trayvon was a criminal after all (granted, a two bit criminal; but a criminal just the same. Zimmerman's gut instinct was spot on.). ;)
My evidence is that he was being beaten by a boy armed with snacks. Zimmerman ignored what an officer of the law told him to do, so we don't know for sure that he is law abiding.
I guess since Trayvon committed crimes in the past he is worthy of execution.
Zimmerman was NOT told to stay put. He was told that he did not have to deal with it. When Trayvon was pounding Zimmerman's head on the ground, he saw and went for Zimmerman's gun. Zimmerman got to the gun first ;)
It's not that Trayvon was worthy of getting shot, it's more like..., no great loss ;)
No, Florida law does not think all killers are bad. He is definitely a killer. He is not a murderer though.
Zimmerman was also not the model citizen just so you know. "In 2005, Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest, after shoving an officer while a friend of Zimmerman's was being questioned about underage drinking. The charges were reduced, then dropped when Zimmerman entered a pre-trial diversion program. Also in 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed a restraining order against him, alleging domestic violence."
If that was the case then Zimmerman showed incredible restraint by not having his gun drawn from the beginning. He had no way to know if martin had a gun or knife. Yet, you want us to believe he would have tried to subdue him physically rather than to hold him at gunpoint?
You are making a better case for the idea that Martin jumped Zimmerman and not the other way around.
No, he didn't have his gun pulled because he is not a cop. People like you would say that he clearly intended to kill Trayvon because his gun was out. Zimmerman was not allowed to check on Trayvon in a safe way. How did Zimmerman get jumped staying near his car? Oh yeah, he didn't he approached Trayvon. That's no longer jumping someone, that's self defense.
Are you ok? You are not making any sense anymore. Cops are not the only people who are allowed to draw their weapons when they feel it's necessary for them to draw their weapons. It seems like you need some time away from this so you can start thinking clearly again.
I think you are mistaken here. I don't believe it would have been legal for Zimmerman to pull out his concealed weapon and point it at Trayvon, that's assault with a deadly weapon. Plus, you were the one who said that had Zimmerman had his gun out and then shot Trayvon he would look guilty. I don't make sense because I used your logic.
I know people who have used a gun in self defense situations and you are wrong. When it is justified, it is legal for a person to draw their weapon and hold someone until the cops get there or to shoot them if that is justified. You are young, naïve or stupid to miss that. Don't you ever watch the news? People protect themselves like that frequently.
Dude, reminder. You were talking about Zimmerman detaining martin until the cops could get there. If he was anxious to use his gun, he could have detained him with his gun. Do the math.
Zimmerman's call to the police was about a guy dressed in dark clothing and looking like he was on drugs looking suspicious in his neighborhood where he was part of the crime watch. It would have been out of line in my opinion for him to have held martin at gunpoint until the cops got their but that's why a guy who was overanxious to use his gun would have done instead of waiting for Martin to break his nose and bash his head before finally pulling his gun.
Did I say that is the "only" way Martin might still be alive?
No dumbass, that's what I just said. It is a factual statement. Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman did not come out with his gun, therefore, the only way for Trayvon to still be alive is if he had come out with his gun.
Of course it is still possible for Trayvon to die in that scenario, we only know for sure that the hidden gun scenario results in Trayvon dead.
You're the dumbass in this debate not me. You've argued even against yourself in this debate. Your followed your own conclusion with the comment saying my logic sucks. How is that not supposed to look like the conclusion and the remark were not being attributed to me?
You are obviously prejudiced in this case and as the case unfolds we will see who the real dumbass is.
Wrong debate idiot. This is the did Zimmerman do anything wrong debate, clearly he did, and whether or not he is found not guilty won't change whether I am right or wrong.
In the other debate the question was is he guilty of something, which I interpreted as is he a bad guy, not will he be found guilty in a court of law for the crime that he has been accused of. I say he is a bad person, but I am intelligent enough to understand that he created the circumstances needed to get off on self defense. You are incapable of discussing the facts of the case outside of the one minute where Trayvon was on the "offensive".
You are obviously prejudiced in this case
Yeah, I don't like killers. Are you going to call me crazy when I don't like rapists?
You haven't proved that Zimmerman did anything "wrong." The evidence does not support many of your claims at all. The evidence does however support my observations and claims and the evidence supports Zimmerman's claims.
If you can't admit that Zimmerman did something wrong, not illegal just wrong, than you are too prejudiced yourself. Zimmerman called the police and was safe away from Trayvon, if he ended up in the situation where he was getting his head smashed into the ground, he did something wrong.
You can't tell me what Zimmerman did that was wrong and give the details for why it was wrong. Unless you can prove he did something "wrong" It is only your opinion that he did something wrong. Everything that we know took place that night can be justified in one way or another.
Are you are seriously alleging "murder" by and act of premeditated self defense where the "murderer" actually involved the police and got his nose broken and his head bashed in? That's an incredible criminal act if Zimmerman can actually get away with it.
We know Zimmerman is a wimp. So, he would have been a little slower and a lot more hesitant. So, he goes over to kill, but he is not sure if he should because he is a wimp. Then Trayvon it turns out is faster and stronger. Then Zimmerman shoots him and gets to claim self defense. Of course I don't actually believe this is the case, but you can see that it is possible. And, it won't be the first murder that didn't go according to plan.
What I was saying is we know for sure that if he didn't want to murder Trayvon he would have stayed at his car. We also know that if he did want to murder Trayvon leaving his car would make it easier.
How many "murderers" do you know of with Zimmerman's stature that would go into a dark area behind some houses and confront someone who can clearly kick his ass and then allow that person to break their nose and beat their head against the ground before finally drawing their gun and shooting?
1, George Zimmerman. Every murder is unique. I actually didn't call him a murderer. I was saying that if he was a murderer, he would have had to take the actions that he took. I was saying that a murderer would have done the same thing Zimmerman did.
I am only trying to be the voice for the victim. Trayvon Martin is dead, and I think that is wrong.
Can you comment on a hypothetical question? Let's say guy A comes at guy B and hits him with a bat. Then guy B is able to get up. Now, guy B has a chance to run away and call the police, but he doesn't. He confronts guy A and starts beating him and takes him to the ground. Now guy B is on top of guy A and guy A is in real danger. He pulls out a knife and stabs guy B in the arm and guy B stops. Was guy A acting in self defense, or was guy B justified in attacking guy A because guy A hit him with a bat?
When you say that Zimmerman "murdered" Martin you are in fact calling Zimmerman a "murderer" and your idiocy continues because you won't or can't admit that it would be foolish for a "murderer" to allow their target to break their nose and bash their head on a sidewalk before deciding it's time to shoot them.
I didn't know that I had said that. I was trying to be careful. Which argument was that in? I meant to say killed. I was saying killed in a bunch of other places. Can you tell me which argument I said it in, maybe I meant something else.
it would be foolish for a "murderer" to allow their target to break their nose and bash their head on a sidewalk before deciding it's time to shoot them.
I didn't mean that I thought it was his master plan to allow himself to be beaten up, I meant that he thought he had everything handled, and then ended up being beaten up so the situation changed. I totally agree that getting your nose busted in is not the best way to murder someone.
Yeah, I didn't actually call him a murderer. A murderer would have gotten out of the car and followed Trayvon, correct?
An eager neighborhood watch would also, except of course that Zimmerman was not actually acting as neighborhood watch at the time, he was going to the store.
We know for a fact that Trayvon dies if Zimmerman approaches him without his gun drawn. So, the only way Trayvon lives is if Zimmerman approaches with his gun drawn. Apparently you don't like this fact, and forfeited.
You are making the assumption that Zimmerman "approached" Martin and we don't "know" that he did that at all. You have not proved that Zimmerman initiated contact with Martin. All we know for sure is that he was following Martin against the dispatcher's advice and reporting his location to the police.
All we know for sure is that he was following Martin against the dispatcher's advice and reporting his location to the police.
Except you put this in the wrong order. He reported his location, then ignored the dispatcher. If Zimmerman was at his car reporting Trayvon to the police, he knew Trayvon was there and Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman was there. Are you alleging that Trayvon approached Zimmerman at his car and that Zimmerman was never following him?
Martin was on the move and Zimmerman was trying to give updates and a more exact location. You need to listen to the tapes again. Also, you should know that Martin did approach and circle Zimmerman while he was still in his car.
Can you explain why when Trayvon had an opportunity to run and he beat someone up it is not ok, but when Zimmerman had an opportunity to run away and he shot someone it is ok?
Was Trayvon on top of him when he called the police? No. Zimmerman was not in danger, called the police, put himself in danger, killed someone.
You can only assume that Trayvon was not forced to the ground by Zimmerman, whereas we all know for a fact that Zimmerman could have avoided the whole situation.
So what you are saying is that whenever I see a young, black, male, I should keep my distance? I should not approach him? I should not ask him any questions? And, above all, if he starts to bash my head against the ground, I should NOT shoot him? Isn't that racist ;)
Zimmerman didn't assume. He knew for a fact that he had never seen Trayvon in his neighborhood before. Probably because Trayvon spent most of his time either at his mother's house or behind the local 7-11 dealing pot ;)
The information that he dealt drugs is out there. Whether it's true or not is another issue. My understanding is that he dealt drugs. I have to go with that until it is shown not to be the case. ;)
This isn't about you, is it racist for a white supremacist to hack a black guys social accounts and post them, or is it just the truth? Your link got me to thinking that.
The NSA doesn't target individuals, they want everybody. I just thought it was weird, too. But of course when a declared racist plots against the race he doesn't like, it must be a racist act, right.
Who's the declared racist? The people who wrote the article? Are they "white power arians?" If so, wouldn't they be against both Trayvon AND Zimmerman? What am I missing? ;)
This is the article you posted man. They are saying it was racist to post all of the delinquent activity that Trayvon was up to. The declared racists are the white supremacist who hacked the web pages, and anyone else who tried to find out if Trayvon was a trouble maker.
Of course, the actual racists are the people who wrote the article.
There were witnesses that saw Treyvon mashing Zimmerman's head into the ground, but Zimmerman SHOULD HAVE BEEN WEARING IDENTIFICATION! Treyvon Martin obviously thought Zimmerman was stalking him! I hope neighborhood watch group I.D. is the one good thing that will come out of this case.
This debate is not set up right. He did do something wrong but he did act in self defence. He should of listen to the cop and should have addressed himself to Trayvon. Trayvon thought he was a sex offender or something of the sort and attacked him in self defence. Zimmerman thought he was being attacked and he was. So really nether of them where in the wrong.