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11
11
Time=4th dimension space=field Space/Time is a contrivance
Debate Score:22
Arguments:17
Total Votes:24
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 Time=4th dimension space=field (8)
 
 Space/Time is a contrivance (9)

Debate Creator

FactMachine(374) pic



Do time and space exist?

Most scientists do not dispute the validity of our current interpretation of Space/time relativity, but many would still argue that the existence of space and time as actual entities which can act and be acted upon is a mathematical contrivance. Perhaps we are conflating a universe-encompassing field and it's effects on the motion of objects through space with the actual distorting of space itself. And perhaps time is not a dimension at all, just our perception of things changing around us.

Time=4th dimension space=field

Side Score: 11
VS.

Space/Time is a contrivance

Side Score: 11
2 points

I'm not versed in the science and philosophy. But what I can say is as I live what I perceive to be life I experience what I perceive to be time and space. And though my senses may all be tricking me that's the best I personally have to go on. So I'll say yes, they do exist.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field
FactMachine(374) Disputed
1 point

They exist as a perception and a way of measuring and defining parameters but they do not exist as entities in and of themselves in the sense that the moon exists or a magnetic field exists.

Side: Space/Time is a contrivance
2 points

they do not exist as entities in and of themselves

So the guy who last night called me a "simpleton" is unaware of the last one hundred and ten years of physics? Lol.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain how people age in a universe without time.

And then, once you are done with that, perhaps you could explain where virtual quantum particles come from if space is not real. Either they come from someplace which is not space, or all of our experiments are wrong.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field

Time and space are just a part of a medium.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field
FactMachine(374) Disputed
1 point

Time and Space are not part of a medium because they don't exist. The medium is a field, time is a measurement of change over a given vector and space is the imaginary line drawn between two points to define their relative position. When two objects are bound together by a field, such as the earth and the moon, it is not the compression and rarefaction of space itself but of that field which effects their relative motion.

Side: Space/Time is a contrivance
2 points

Everything exists. If you can imagine it, it exists. Love exists. Thoughts exist. Dreams exist. Hate exists. And you can't see or measure any of them.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field
1 point

Interesting topic, but I certainly don't know enough yet to comment.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field

Time is demonstrably real. From Einstein's equations we have developed a lot of modern technology, and one of the things we have developed are satellite navigation systems. The thing that is so special about satellite navigation systems is that they must allow for time dilation. That is, they must allow for the fact that time runs slower when in the presence of gravity. Besides this of course, with no time there would be no ageing or decay. Entropy could not exist in a universe without time.

Believe it or not, space is considerably more difficult to prove than time. Philosophers are still pondering the question of whether space still exists if you remove all the matter/energy from it. Considering Einstein's principle of equivalence between gravity and acceleration also serves to confuse the issue, because it means a pull and a push are essentially the same thing.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field
FactMachine(374) Disputed
1 point

Time dilation could possibly be explained by some form of pressure which can be induced by a gravitational field, by dark matter, or by electromagnetism which slows the rate of entropy, slows the internal oscillations of "particles" and resists motion in general. This could possibly explain why there is a "speed limit" and gamma rays cannot travel faster than the emission of a flashlight despite containing more energy. We have went along with Einstein's equations (most of which are not his to begin with) because they have worked up to a certain point, but proper consideration has not been taken as to the interpretation of these formulas in comparison to their practical application. Is general relativity useful? yes, but only up to a certain point, just as newton's equations become useless at a certain point and you must rely on Einstein's. Einstein's equations do not describe the nature of the universe, and neither did newton's, and neither does quantum mechanics. They have lead to a clearer picture of the universes properties but they have brought about utter insanity when it comes to the interpretation of what is being observed. It's similar to an ancient tribe finding a plant which has healing properties, they know of it's effects and how to use it, but they attribute those affects to some metaphysical contrivance and build a religion around it.Time does not need to exist for entropy and decay to exist, you could just as easily say that things need to exist and be in a state of change for the perception of time to exist, time doesn't cause us to age, age causes us to time. Saying that space warps is the same as saying that the distance between two objects warps when they move relative to each other. The thing that is warping is a field, not space itself.

Side: Space/Time is a contrivance
0 points

Time dilation could possibly be explained by some form of pressure which can be induced by a gravitational field

That IS what explains time dilation, you bloody idiot. You've just paraphrased the concept of time dilation using different words. Time slows down measurably near a gravitational field, which proves that time exists.

Stay away from Google. It wasn't built for idiots. If you don't understand what you are talking about, then please don't pretend.

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field
1 point

Time is demonstrably real

Oh? So where was time pre big bang? Hiding in your mythological nothing's bossom?

Side: Space/Time is a contrivance
1 point

Time and space do exist. It has been proven scientifically. In fact, the speed that one travels affects time. The closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time passes. So, how can velocity have an effect on something that doesn't exist?

Side: Time=4th dimension space=field

There is a difference between something that doesn't make sense and something you can't make sense of, and in my view the Space/Time paradigm is not only unintuitive but entirely contrary to logic itself. Saying that space actually bends, rips and warps is similar to saying that when two objects move closer together, the distance between them is what is pulling them together. Space and distance are not "things" in and of themselves, any more than a shadow or cold. Cold is the absence of heat, time is an abstraction and can only be measured relative to some physical process of change. It is impossible to have a measurement of time without reference to some physical process where change is occurring. It is inherently impossible to isolate "time" as a sovereign physical entity and study it's properties because it's existence is dependent on a state of fluctuation. Unlike time, space supposedly has properties which are independent of the things which reside in that space for instance the ten spatial dimensions which take on their own geometrical structure. I don't see dimensions as things which exist in and of themselves, but rather as the potential oscillations of a field. it is not space that warps, it is a field, space and time are useful concepts but are not things which actually exist. Furthermore time is not a dimension, and cannot be traveled through, because unlike a spatial dimension it's existence is not based on the potential for actual "things" to take a certain form or travel in a certain way but is entirely contrived from the fact that things are taking different forms and traveling different ways.

Side: Space/Time is a contrivance