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Debate Info

24
25
Don't believe without a proof Believe even without a proof
Debate Score:49
Arguments:34
Total Votes:58
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Argument Ratio

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 Don't believe without a proof (15)
 
 Believe even without a proof (17)

Debate Creator

sunialpani(214) pic



Do you believe in the existence of the "Dark-Matter" without a proof?

 

While there is no proof of the existence of dark  matter,  scientists believe its existence just because of the EFFECT OF SOME UNKNOWN FORCE  ON VISIBLE MATTER.  Scientists are agree that, there is the existence of dark matter. But I am not agree with them because I don’t have a proof of the existence of dark matter. And the effect on visible matter could be some other reasons (since there is no proof of the existence of “DARK MATTER”). Therefore, I do not agree with the scientists that there is an existence of dark matter.

 

What is your view?

 

Do you believe the words of scientists without a proof of the existence of ‘dark matter’, say there is dark matter? Or you need a proof to believe the existence of ‘dark matter’ ?

 

Don't believe without a proof

Side Score: 24
VS.

Believe even without a proof

Side Score: 25
Emperor(1348) Banned
2 points

Why would I believe something so farfetched?

However, it is NOT farfetched by any means, or I wouldn't accept its existence.

However, I am not going to lecture about this branch of physics due to it's complexity.

If you care about why and how the universe works, then research physics and space.

If you don't, then you should not be in this debate.

Side: Don't believe without a proof
sunialpani(214) Clarified
1 point

You are not interested in participate this debate as you said. So, I banned you. It is irrelevant someone participating a debate he/she is not interested in. I welcome all to participate all. No need to fear me. It is debate. But I request you - "please don't use obscene/uncivilized/rough/bad words." If I see anyone use such words fearing losing to me, I'll report him back. It is a debate and everyone (giving valid/decent words) are welcome. I hope, everyone of us are from civilized families.

Side: Don't believe without a proof
Cuaroc(8829) Disputed
1 point

Quite the coward aint ya.

Side: Believe even without a proof
sunialpani(214) Disputed
0 points

However, I am not going to lecture about this branch of physics due to it's complexity.

Complexity to whom? Complexity to you or to everyone? Please remember that, scientists believe the existence of DARK-MATTER even if term it being a subject of complexity.

If you care about why and how the universe works, then research physics and space.

Since we are parts of the Universe, we are to know things better and there are many people in CreateDebate site. You are not interested in 'Dark Matter' doesn't mean all are not interested...

Moreover, you avoided my question. I asked "If you believe the dark matter even without a proof" or not? You answer like a scary rat.

Side: Believe even without a proof
nummi(1432) Disputed
3 points

Banning people simply because you know you cannot refute them, because you know deep down that they are right and you are wrong. Yet you deny that reality. How very nice of you. Go a step further and just in case ban everyone.

Side: Don't believe without a proof
Dremorius(861) Disputed Banned
2 points

... Why did you just reply to him when you've just banned him.

That's just a dog act...

Side: Don't believe without a proof

I do not believe that this concept is accurate, as it ties in with space-time, which I find highly dubious.

I will not yet refute it, but it of course could just be something else that produces these visible effects. You're right - we can't see dark matter, or really prove that it exists.

Rather than sit back and demand an explanation, however, I happen to be on a path that enables me to find out. I'm going to study Physics in college and hopefully work at CERN, so I intend to address this matter directly.

In fact, I've decided that my thesis should be on "Space-Time and related concepts". Watch this space and I may return in a decade or so, Nobel Prize in hand.

Side: Don't believe without a proof
1 point

NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter

Dark matter and normal matter have been wrenched apart by the tremendous collision of two large clusters of galaxies. The discovery, using NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory and other telescopes, gives direct evidence for the existence of dark matter.

Supporting Evidence: Proof (www.nasa.gov)
Side: Don't believe without a proof
leftorright(24) Disputed
1 point

It gives evidence that dark matter exists not proof. Evidence is not proof it only supports it. The same evidence could be used to support the argument that if we accepted that the gravitational constant is not truly a constant but is a variable. Remember there is more then one way to account for the additional presents of gravity.

Side: Don't believe without a proof
1 point

I believe that the gravitation constant is not constant so there is no need to believe in the existence of dark-matter and until they find proof of it I will not believe it. We have become to quick to jump to a solution to explain what we don't understand that we just make up terms to fit or current theories. Once we understand gravity and other forces better then we can decide whether or not dark matter exist. I do believe there needs to be something to explain all the fundamental forces in nature (gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak forces) but we cant just make up terms.

Side: Don't believe without a proof
0 points

These liberal "scientists" are pulling of another good one, laughing at the hard working Americans who are stupid or unfortunate enough to get fooled to believe in this theory without any proof.

We built the worlds biggest hadron collider for what?

Dawkins is just making fun of it and calling it the "hardon collider." Well I've just about had it with these liberals. People ought to believe in god and our constitution! British atheist elitist liberals can suck it!

Side: Don't believe without a proof
Elvira(3446) Disputed
1 point

The thing is, you American's didn't build the Large Hadron collider. It was built by CERN, a european organisation.

Side: Believe even without a proof
2 points

Very colory indeed.

Side: Believe even without a proof
2 points

Erm, someone should tell you that there is proof, or at least evidence.

The evidence is that the rate of expansion is increasing, rather than decreasing due to gravitational pull. This means that some sort of energy is causing this. We call it "dark energy". And because energy converts to matter, it would be fair to say that there is also dark matter. We know little about it, and dark matter is just the arbitrary name we give to it.

However, it is empirically verifiable, and indeed it is being tested as we speak. So it is not as irrational to believe in dark matter as it is to believe in, ooh I don't know...

God?

Side: Believe even without a proof
sunialpani(214) Disputed
1 point

NASA science page [ http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/9-12/features/what-is-dark-matter.html ] reads "...The matter that makes up dark matter could different. It may be filled with particles predicted by theory but that scientists have yet to observe.

Because scientists can't see dark matter...That's what makes dark matter exciting: It's still one of the great mysteries of science. "

And "mystery", according to Oxford Dictionaries is - a person or thing whose identity or nature is puzzling or unknown. It is interesting to learn that, some people believe even unknown (things without any evidence) things.

Side: Don't believe without a proof

Yes. Thanks for agreeing with me .

Side: Don't believe without a proof
1 point

I totally agree with you. The theories are still in their infantile years however some day will become more in depth as theories do in the physics world.

Side: Believe even without a proof
2 points

Even if I don't understand this theory at all or have any practical reason to believe it, I am willing to believe it because its being scientifically proposed.

Look at the long long amazing track record science has for figuring out the natural world. The scientific method has many checks and balances which force it to find "truth". Assuming that most scientist in the field believe dark matter exists, and I have no better theory, I absolutely believe dark matter exists. If a new consensus in the scientific community emerges that it does not exists, I will believe that.

Side: Believe even without a proof
sunialpani(214) Disputed
1 point

Assuming that most scientist in the field believe dark matter exists, and I have no better theory, I absolutely believe dark matter exists.

So, you are ready to accept arguments of MOST scientists (even without a proof) since you don't have a better theory? And it seems the yardstick of your belief is MOST opinions. Thanks

Side: Don't believe without a proof
MrPrime(268) Disputed
1 point

Well, you ended with "MOST opinions" which is not where you or I started. More like "I believe the scientific consensus". Keep in mind I'm not going to "test out the teleporter" on consensus alone. As the stakes go up, my trust goes down.

Again I would be happy to disagree with scientific consensus if I thought I had a better theory. However since I don't have an advanced degree in any of the natural sciences, the chances of ever thinking my theory is better is very very small.

Side: Believe even without a proof

How did you get all those colors in there? I need proof that they are really there ;)

Side: Believe even without a proof
2 points

It's just a substitute for a proper explanation! And there are other theories. That's why most scientists won't follow it for certain unless there is empirical evidence.

But there is actually evidence. Unlike religion, everyone believes in with delusion.

Sunialpani, remove your head from this delusion.

Side: Believe even without a proof
sunialpani(214) Disputed
2 points

But there is actually evidence.

Evidence? Evidence for dark matter?

Side: Don't believe without a proof
Facadeon(510) Disputed
2 points

Well how else can we explain why the Universe isn't collapsing in on itself? The theory of Dark Matter is a Theory for a reason- a means to explain something. In this case, it is a theory to explain why something isn't happening when it should, and that maybe Dark Matter is making this happen. Is it so hard?

Side: Believe even without a proof
1 point

It is the leading theory at the moment, so I will accept it, but not hve faith in it, unless I or others has a reasonable view that contradicts it= standard answer to everything in TOK.

Do you believe in the existence of "God" without a proof?

Side: Believe even without a proof
1 point

I believe that dark matter exists because of a simple physics equation. G=(m1) (m2)/r2 this means that the mass of one object times the mass of another divided by the radius squared equals the force of gravity between the two the masses. Physicists have done calculations which have taken the mass and velocity of stars which are close to the super massive black hole which is at the center of our galaxy and compared that data to the masses of stars which are far away from the center, and the results are that the velocities are the same. This puzzled them because the stars at the center of the galaxy got their velocity because of the huge gravitational force of the black hole pulling them close then flinging them out into their orbit. However the stars farther away do not have as much of a gravitational force pulling on them due huge distance between them and the black hole (there is still gravity just not the massive amount), so how are they have the same velocity? It is due to the force of gravity between the star and the dark matter. All dark matter is, is matter from another universe which is parallel to our own however invisible due to light traveling between the two layers not interacting with space time above. Since gravity is a force of attraction between masses and the bending of space time it can be transferred between the universes while the light cannot. Visualize the universes as blanks being held some distance apart horizontally in the air. The fabric is pulled taught and on the top blanket a small weight is placed which is just enough to create a small indentation in the fabric. The more massive the weights the more the fabric will move down, just like with the fabric of space time. As more weights are added they are attracted to the center because of gravity pulling the objects and the fabric becoming more and more warped. On the bottom blanket (let this represent our universe) planets (weights) are affected by the masses above (very very slightly because of the low mass) however these masses cannot be seen because of the thick fabric in the way (or in the larger scale case, light between the layers which does not interact with the masses above thus not refracting into our eyes enabling their detection). So yes i believe, i believe because i see this as proof. Thanks to you if you read all of this before imputing your rebuttal.

Side: Believe even without a proof