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I think abortion is killing. Every person has a right for life. Why do many women do abortion ? I cant understand them. Before you got pregnant , you should think by your head hundreed times. Whether you want this child or not. If you dont, then you should just drink the pills and your problem will be solved.
I am pro life not for religious reasons but for moral reasons. I think that it is murder and if you get pregnant and don't want the baby then it is your fault for having sex.
Her statement is false. If her statement were true, there would be no debate on this topic. Some people don't believe abortion is murder, therefore her statement is false.
All doctors and scientists agree that a fetus is a human and abortion is a murder. And according to psychologist, people tend to dehumanize a fetus as a defense mechanism to avoid the guilt of their actions.
It is a well masked genocide done by the mother to her own child. But I can see the need for it
In the same sense that there might be a question of "do you oppose rape?" This shouldn't even be a controversy since there is nothing controversial about killing your children.
Just because rape is bad doesn't mean abortion is murder, nice try though. How many people do you know would say no to "do you oppose rape?" I am pretty sure that those are very different.
Abortion is NOT murder! Do you have any evidence that abortion is indeed murder? Do you hear these arguments go to trial?
Abortion is simply a right for ALL women under ANY circumstances. A child that is haven't born yet does not have the full features of a person and it does not have consciousness. Therefore abortion should NOT be considered murder under all conditions.
Under the circumstances when the mother truly wants an abortion due to issues such as the irresponsibility of the father, if the child is born, it will be a burden for both the single mother and the child when he/she grows up! If that is the case, it would be better if that child was never born.
Abortion is not a responsibility but a right for all women when she feels the burden and hesitation. You would not want two lives to be lived under a shadow based on one decision.
Abortion is not OK. You are killing a child. "A person's a person, no mater how small." What if you were aborted? you would be asking yourself questions like "What did I do wrong" or "I wasn't good enough" With adoption, you can at least let the child find what it is like to be loved. When they are killed, they are gone. They never know the feeling of understatement, love, kindness, or have the opportunity to change the world. Who knows? You could possibly kill the next MLK or the next JFK or the next Gandhi.
Yepp. Killing something that isn't living is murder. Like shooting a dead body, that's murder. Fellatio is also murder, and cannibalism. Y'all do fellatio and you're worse than Hitler. Mmkay?
And if this doesn't make sense, then fuck you. Because obviously I support life my supporting something that isn't living, and if you're someone that supports abortion, then you're not pro-life, meaning you want everyone to die, obviously.
By which time I hope you realise I am being sarcastic, and poorly mocking the pro-life-parade.
Oh get a fucking sense of humor Gordon brown, Jesus...
Can't you do something productive, like explain why what I said is wrong, instead of just downvoting me like an infant and acting like some whiny bitch?
It's illogical to let a woman die in the hope of saving a child, which would die in birth anyway. And yet people still say " nature should run it's course, let her die."
That, my friend, is illogical, if you wish to live in a functioning technologically advanced ( and advancing) society.
I don't so much say "let nature run it's course". I would say more that this is a risk that you take when you decide to get pregnant or have sex. Parenting is a lot of sacrifice. There is no doubt about that. There is no guarantee that the child will die during birth. There is however always a chance. I'm all for advancement but we have to remember that we are not dealing with objects here, we are dealing with human lives. That is the greatest thing known to man.
I have to vote on the side of 'Abortion is wrong.'
I, however, am pro-choice. Firstly, because of circumstances where the mother would be at significant risk carrying the child to term. Secondly, because victims of rape have enough to go through, they should have the option to terminate the resultant pregnancy rather than carry it to term alongside all of the emotional trauma. Thirdly, because adoption is not a viable alternative to abortion for reasons I've detailed elsewhere. I could not countenance a ban on abortion without first doing a major overhaul of the adoption and foster care system; otherwise, we're just throwing even more kids into an already overloaded and poorly handled system- packed with all forms of abuse.
I believe that abortion is wrong for two different reasons. First of all, abortion removes responsibility. Much of the problem that we have with society today is that we are teaching children that everything is fixable. They are living with the idea that nothing they do is permanent. Somebody can cover their mistake no matter how bad. This means that all they have to do is deal with the bad feeling. This is destructive. Imagine if every girl on the planet was told by everybody that abortion is okay. If they don't feel like having a baby they can just get rid of it. We know that there are negative effects(especially to the body of the woman). It wouldn't be logical to tell the young women growing up that this is okay. Secondly, the idea that the fetus IS going to be a child. The argument that I hear most often is that the woman has the choice in what she wants to do with her body. But here's the thing, it's not just her body now. It's her body AND the body of the child. In addition, that argument doesn't hold true with why we set a limit on how long you can wait to do it. If that is the logic, then you should be able to have an abortion at 8 months. It's still the woman's body. Therefore, aside from arguing that it just isn't "right" it also isn't very logical at all.
Hopefully they will invent a time machine soon. Then I can go back in time and show your mom what an obnoxious prick you turned out to be so she will abort you :p
It wasn't a joke. The guy is a troll. He's the one that's been creating all those fundie puppet accounts over the past few weeks. I don't even think the guy is a christian. Notice how in all of the videos he posts he picks the stupidest creationist arguments instead of picking ones that at least make a little bit of sense. I'm pretty sure he's just a poe making fun of the Christians on CD. I wouldn't be surprised if he was you since I haven't seen you trolling lately. Have you actually changed your ways or did you just get tired of getting banned over and over?
I don't really wish he was dead. I was just trolling the troll. I'm surprised my comment bothers you so much considering you've said far harsher things to many people on this site, like telling Dana she should kill herself when she was in the middle of an emotional breakdown. Maybe you really have changed. I hope so because you clearly have some intelligence in that brain of yours because you do post decent arguments from time to time, and I hate to see you waste a perfectly good mind on trolling.
I agree. I was just really irritated and took my insults too far. I've been on this site for almost a year now and I don't think more than a week has gone by that this site hasn't been plagued with trolls and puppet accounts. I'm just really tired of it. I honestly don't know why I keep coming back. I left for a while but came back hoping things had changed but they haven't.
Here's a question: What if someone couldn't take care of a baby? And don't say adoption. The only other option would be Abortion. And Abortion keeps our population lower and decreases the chance of poverty.
The whole issue at stake is whether or not one has a right at that point, or if they are a one at all.
Without addressing that, there's no point discussing abortion. It's not that people who believe abortion should be legal think that a fetus is a life but it's simply okay to kill it, it's that they don't think it's a life in the first place.
Abortion is just history repeating itself where people invent lies to dehumanize their own brother and avoid the guilt of their actions. Once it was the blacks to the whites. Today is the mother to her child.
Only a fool will deny that a fetus is a human. However, disgusting as it may seem, I see it as a necessary evil
NO we are not. Did you know if everyone on earth got 1100 square feet to themselves, we would all fit in the state of Texas, the world is a lot bigger then Texas. Come up to Canada where I live, I drove through the country this summer and there is NOBODY.
"2. You cant force someone to bear a child she does not want"
So were going to put the woman's right to convenience over the child's right to live? What if someone said "we can't force a woman to raise a child she doesn't want, so we should kill it, even if it's six years old." We would take the right to life over the right to the comfort of the mother. It's not her body, it's the child's body.
"3. It is better to kill the child than let it live in a world of rejection and abuse"
What if the child disagrees? Who are we to make that choice for them? Besides that this is rarely the case.
"4. If he grew up without love, he will grow as a criminal and further instill disorder in the society"
First, there are thousands of loving couples willing to adopt a child and give it a loving home and a bright future. Second, you don't know that, and they shouldn't be killed for crimes you think they will commit someday.
"This are the reasons that the government came up before they legalize abortion. And I agree"
Hitler came up with similar reasons for killing Jews, do you agree?
"1. NO we are not. Did you know if everyone on earth got 1100 square feet to themselves, we would all fit in the state of Texas,"
- No jobs, not enough food, no money, no medicines. When the demand exceeds the supply, that what it meant by overpopulation.
You cant force someone to get out of the city either as it is unconstitutional
"2. So were going to put the woman's right to convenience over the child's right to live?"
Yes. She is the bearer,she has the right
"3. What if the child disagrees?"
what if, thats the key word
"4. First, there are thousands of loving couples willing to adopt a child and give it a loving home and a bright future."
Tell that to the overflowing orphanage allover the world and street childrens begging for spare change. Where is the loving couples that is willing to adopt them?
"Second, you don't know that, and they shouldn't be killed for crimes you think they will commit someday."
I agree but I wont take any chances
"Hitler came up with similar reasons for killing Jews"
" No jobs, not enough food, no money, no medicines. When the demand exceeds the supply, that what it meant by overpopulation."
These are problems with the system, not the population.
"You cant force someone to get out of the city either as it is unconstitutional"
I'm not saying you should, I'm saying if you don't want to move out of the city, stop complaining.
"Yes. She is the bearer,she has the right"
This is prejudice and is the excuse of every tyrant in history "I'm the countries leader, I have the right." Every human being has a fundamental right; the right to life. Besides would you make this excuse if the child were born? 3? 10? 18?
"what if, thats the key word"
Exactly, and the baby should have the benefit of the doubt. I know people who grew up in messed up homes and are glad they are alive!
"Tell that to the overflowing orphanage allover the world and street childrens begging for spare change. Where is the loving couples that is willing to adopt them?"
Again, a problem with the system. I know people who wanted to adopt and they were put on a 10 year waiting list. There are literally thousands of couples like that because the government is paranoid and thinks it's better to kill babies then to put them in a home where they might get abused. It's sick.
"I agree but I wont take any chances"
So I guess your for going into poor black neighborhoods and killing everyone there because some of them will probably become criminals. Or nuking the whole middle east because it will probably produce some terrorists and we don't want to take the chance.
"Hitler never made sense and you know that"
Neither are you since you are making the same excuses he did.
"These are problems with the system, not the population."
and the system came up with a solution-abortion
"I'm not saying you should, I'm saying if you don't want to move out of the city, stop complaining."
People complains to improve something. They cant go outside because there are no jobs there either.
"This is prejudice and is the excuse of every tyrant in history. Besides would you make this excuse if the child were born? 3? 10? 18?"
A fetus feels nothing. It is a living human but without any capabilities to feel pain, it is humane to kill it that let it live as an unwanted child
"Again, a problem with the system."
And the system is doing something.
"So I guess your for going into poor black neighborhoods and killing everyone there because some of them will probably become criminals."
There is no scientific facts that supports black people as a gene for being a criminal.But there is a fact that says all criminals were once abused children
"Neither are you since you are making the same excuses he did."
He had no scientific explanation for his genocide. I do
This is the same excuse Hitler made. This is MURDER. you said so yourself and I just proved that the world is not over populated. THERE ARE FARMERS BEING PAID TO NOT GROW FOOD! This is not an excuse for the murder of the innocent,
"They cant go outside because there are no jobs there either."
I don't live in a city and I have a job.
"A fetus feels nothing. It is a living human but without any capabilities to feel pain, it is humane to kill it that let it live as an unwanted child"
So it's ok to kill people in their sleep? They can't feel pain. Or maybe poison them because it's painless. Murder isn't wrong because it hurts, its wrong because you are taking the life of another human being when you have no right to. Besides at certain stages of abortion they can feel pain. If you watch the video "The Silent Scream" on youtube it shows a video of a baby being aborted and actually attempting to swim away from the tube that suckes that baby's head off. Now with that said, is it human to kill a 1 year old unwanted child?
"There is no scientific facts that supports black people as a gene for being a criminal.But there is a fact that says all criminals were once abused children"
It is a fact that if you grow up in a poor, black community (has nothing to do with genes, but how you're raised) you are more likely to get in a gang, do drugs and get involved in crime.
And no, not ALL criminals were abused as children.
"He had no scientific explanation for his genocide. I do"
I don't care if you do, it's still a genocide and there is blood on your hands for supporting it. This has nothing to do with science, it is simple morality.
Thats cool but why not search for statistics of how many people are currently unemployed because of the lack of demand for manpower
"So it's ok to kill people in their sleep?"
Yes. And its called "Euthanasia" or "Lethal Injection"
The Fetus has all the rights as a human being but the world isnt ready to give it
"It is a fact that if you grow up in a poor, black community (has nothing to do with genes, but how you're raised) you are more likely to get in a gang, do drugs and get involved in crime."
So, are you saying that black folks has poor nurturing skills?
You will need to support that with scientific facts
"And no, not ALL criminals were abused as children."
"I don't care if you do, it's still a genocide and there is blood on your hands for supporting it. This has nothing to do with science, it is simple morality."
So can I say to slaughter houses as animal abuse and capital punishments as murder. But in the end, the world isnt ready to abandon this evils
"Thats cool but why not search for statistics of how many people are currently unemployed because of the lack of demand for manpower"
One of the reasons this is so is because there are many jobs that people don't want to do. Don't believe me? Where I live they import people from other countries to work at fishing plants because no one wants that job. In any case, this is still not an excuse for murder.
"Yes. And its called "Euthanasia" or "Lethal Injection""
So I guess you wouldn't have a problem with someone coming over to your house in the middle of the night and giving you or your loved ones a lethal injection?
"The Fetus has all the rights as a human being but the world isnt ready to give it"
This is irrelevant. Murder should not be a solution to economic or social problems. If it is, then we should also kill people with disabilities since they don't contribute to society.
"So, are you saying that black folks has poor nurturing skills?
You will need to support that with scientific facts"
I'm not saying anything about black people. I love black people. Some of my best friends are black. I'm talking aobut specific neighbourhoods that happen to have a high black population. According to your standard, we should go into poor neighbourhoods and kill the people there because they will likely join gangs and become criminals. That is a fact. Oh, and we should also go into homes where kids are being abused and kill the kids so they don't become criminals one day. This is where your logic leads. If we can kill a 5 month pre-born child who might be abused, why can't we kill a 5 year old who is being abused?
"So can I say to slaughter houses as animal abuse"
No, they aren't human so it isn't murder and they aren't being tourchered so it isn't abuse.
"and capital punishments as murder. But in the end, the world isnt ready to abandon this evils"
Capital punishment isn't murder. Murder is taking the life of an innocent, but someone guilty of taking life should be ready to have his own taken. You shouldn't be able to buy someones life with time from your own. It's a matter of justice; life for life. Babies, on the other hand, haven't murdered anyone so they don't deserve capital punishment.
"It's still Murder, this is another Hitler excuse."
Hitler has no excuse for his genocide. But we do have a reason for allowing abortion
"One of the reasons this is so is because there are many jobs that people don't want to do."
Then how can you make them want to do it?
"So I guess you wouldn't have a problem with someone coming over to your house in the middle of the night and giving you or your loved ones a lethal injection?"
If it was done to people who did nothing wrong, its called crime. If its done to criminals, its called "execution". If its done to fetus, its called "abortion"
Learn the difference.
"This is irrelevant. Murder should not be a solution to economic or social problems. If it is, then we should also kill people with disabilities since they don't contribute to society."
Murder has always been a solution to economic problems. Gladiator fights to decrease the population in prisons, slavery to solve shortage in manpower, and abortion to decrease overpopulation and crime.
People with disabilities has the ability to speak and shows ability to understand. This is what makes them a part of the society
A change will happen, but not yet
"According to your standard, we should go into poor neighbourhoods and kill the people there because they will likely join gangs and become criminals. That is a fact. Oh, and we should also go into homes where kids are being abused and kill the kids so they don't become criminals one day. This is where your logic leads. If we can kill a 5 month pre-born child who might be abused, why can't we kill a 5 year old who is being abused?"
1. Being poor wont make you a criminal.
2. Kids that were abused are sent to proper government centers where they are mended.
3. We can kill a fetus because the society it has no capability to speak for its own. Blame the society for its cruelty
"Capital punishment isn't murder. Murder is taking the life of an innocent, but someone guilty of taking life should be ready to have his own taken"
A baby is someone guilty of being born. Theres no difference, a murder is a murder. If you support Capital Punishment , why cant you support abortion?
"Hitler has no excuse for his genocide. But we do have a reason for allowing abortion"
That is EXACTLY what he would have said.
"Then how can you make them want to do it?"
Irrelevant but a good start would be taking away their welfare.
"If it was done to people who did nothing wrong, its called crime. If its done to criminals, its called "execution". If its done to fetus, its called "abortion""
Wait...your being a little inconsistent here. Earlier you said a 'fetus' is a human being. A fetus did nothing wrong. So why isn't it called crime?
"Murder has always been a solution to economic problems. Gladiator fights to decrease the population in prisons, slavery to solve shortage in manpower, and abortion to decrease overpopulation and crime."
That is a sick way of looking at society. Have you no value for human life?
1. "Being poor wont make you a criminal." Niether will being unloved, but both of them increase the chances.
2. "Kids that were abused are sent to proper government centers where they are mended." Why can't we do that for the unborn?
3. "We can kill a fetus because the society it has no capability to speak for its own. Blame the society for its cruelty" DON'T BLAME ME, BLAME SOCIETY. You are soceity, as am I, and if you support it in it's slaughter of innocent humans, you have just as much blood on your hands and any abortion killer.
"A baby is someone guilty of being born. Theres no difference, a murder is a murder. If you support Capital Punishment , why cant you support abortion?"
Being born isn't a crime, God created each one of them in their mother's womb, I support Capital Punishment because it's justice, life for life, abortion isn't justice, it's murder.
(I used boldface to make the discussions easier to read)
That is EXACTLY what he would have said.
He has no evidence that Jews have to be eradicated. All he cared about was his own genocidal preferences
irrelevant but a good start would be taking away their welfare.
Welfare belongs to our privilages as a citizen of the country. Taking it away will mean that you should also decrease the taxes or else it will result in massive disorder in the community. Now considering the fact that the public aid was now abolished to make way for making their jobs more enjoyable, what else would be the need for a government? Little by little, you solution will only lead into the fall of the state.
Wait...your being a little inconsistent here. Earlier you said a 'fetus' is a human being. A fetus did nothing wrong. So why isn't it called crime?
A fetus is a Human but a Human isn't a fetus. Thats the difference between their definitions
That is a sick way of looking at society. Have you no value for human life?
The truth was never good to look at. It is better to choose the disgusting solutions than to ignore the problem
Niether will being unloved, but both of them increase the chances.
So whats your point?
Why can't we do that for the unborn?
Because we lack the funds to take care of every single unwanted child. And to make it worse, we do not even know what to do to them after they grew up
You are soceity, as am I, and if you support it in it's slaughter of innocent humans, you have just as much blood on your hands and any abortion killer.
Call me anyway you want. The facts will remain strong- we are not ready to abolish it.
Being born isn't a crime,
But the mother has the right to decide what she wants with her body
I support Capital Punishment because it's justice, life for life, abortion isn't justice, it's murder.
Thats called "The Black or White Fallacy". No single criminal has ever commited a crime without any reason. Every single one of them has a story to tell, ranging from simple acts of anger into minds broken by a past of constant abuse. Will you really blame them for growing up in such a way when it was society who molded them to who they are now?
And by the way, have you ever heard that ever since Abortion was legalized, crime rate has decreased by about 40% in just 17 years. All because the birthrate of unwanted children has been decreased
"He has no evidence that Jews have to be eradicated. All he cared about was his own genocidal preferences"
When did evidence enter the discussion? This isn't a science debate, it's a moral debate. Hitler would probably disagree with you by the way, so who is right? You or Hitler? I can see you have absolutely no good justification for killing children, so you are in the same boat.
"Welfare belongs to our privilages as a citizen of the country."
I'm just going to stop this part of the convo because it's totally irrelevant to the discussion. (By the way, welfare is a farely new thing, people have survived without it for a loooooooooooooooong time)
"A fetus is a Human but a Human isn't a fetus. Thats the difference between their definitions"
That makes absolutely no sense. I could just as easily say "you are a human but a human isn't you". If it's a human, it automatically deserves LIFE!
"The truth was never good to look at. It is better to choose the disgusting solutions than to ignore the problem"
Maybe the problem is better then the solution, because it seems to me your just making things worse by killing the future's engineers, scientists, doctors, and so on.
"So whats your point?"
My point is you can't just pick on the weak, defenceless babies in the womb when trying to solve a problem. If your going to kill unloved people, you have to take it to the logical conclusion and kill all of them or none of them. Not just the ones that can't speak for themselves. This is what makes abortion so horrible; it bullies the most vulnerable people on earth.
"Because we lack the funds to take care of every single unwanted child. And to make it worse, we do not even know what to do to them after they grew up"
They will go into society just like the rest of us, besides all of this still falls short of justifying the murder of innocent children.
"Call me anyway you want. The facts will remain strong- we are not ready to abolish it."
No, the facts are that murder is a crime, killing unborn babies is murder, no matter what your 'facts' are, killing innocent people is NEVER justified.
"But the mother has the right to decide what she wants with her body"
It's not her body, she has no right to the life of an innocent just because she doesn't want to look after it. It's someone elses body and she has blood on her hands for squashing that life out of existence.
" No single criminal has ever committed a crime without any reason. Every single one of them has a story to tell, ranging from simple acts of anger into minds broken by a past of constant abuse "
I would disagree but even if this is the case, its irrelevant. You are responsible for your actions. If you kill another human being intentionally, you have forfeited your own life. Following your logic, Hitler can't be blamed for what he did because he had a reason to kill those Jews. The killer is not the victim, the killed is. If you steal something, you can give money back, but you can't give a life back so it is just to have yours taken to.
"And by the way, have you ever heard that ever since Abortion was legalized, crime rate has decreased by about 40% in just 17 years. All because the birthrate of unwanted children has been decreased"
Again irrelevant and untrue, there have been 50 million more homicides in the US since 1973, it's called abortion.
When did evidence enter the discussion? This isn't a science debate, it's a moral debate.
Hitlers reason for exterminating the Jewsis because of his delusion that they are an inferior race compared to them. And they only endanger the Aryan genes. There was never any evidence to it and that was the point.
welfare is a farely new thing, people have survived without it for a loooooooooooooooong time
And yet, it is included in our taxes. Removal of it means the removal of tax.
That makes absolutely no sense. I could just as easily say "you are a human but a human isn't you". If it's a human, it automatically deserves LIFE!
A fetus still belongs in a womb. A human has the capabilities to think and react according to its will.
Maybe the problem is better then the solution, because it seems to me your just making things worse by killing the future's engineers, scientists, doctors, and so on.
It can work both ways. I may be killing a future criminal, scammer, dictator and so on.
My point is you can't just pick on the weak, defenceless babies in the womb when trying to solve a problem.
The true goal of abortion is not to kill babies. But to give the mother a better life. In one way or another, the offspring will get involve in her matters.
They will go into society just like the rest of us, besides all of this still falls short of justifying the murder of innocent children.
Yeah right. And who will you blame if the government was forced to give the children alms for food and newspaper for blankets?
No, the facts are that murder is a crime, killing unborn babies is murder, no matter what your 'facts' are, killing innocent people is NEVER justified.
If it is for the better good. Then sure, whatever
It's not her body, she has no right to the life of an innocent just because she doesn't want to look after it. It's someone elses body and she has blood on her hands for squashing that life out of existence.
Too bad, science says otherwise.
You are responsible for your actions. If you kill another human being intentionally, you have forfeited your own life.
This is the part where all your logic falls apart and reduced to mere fallacies.
Have you even heard of cause-and-effect? No criminal has ever moved according to pure pleasure. They are the aftermath of countless oppression from the society. At worst cases, it is even the victim who was at fault for never understanding that dogs will bite
That is the reason why the Court of Justice was made
Again irrelevant and untrue, there have been 50 million more homicides in the US since 1973, it's called abortion.
If someone is a strict constructionist who interprets the Constitution word for word, the sanction for abortion is given under the Fourteenth Amendment.
The Fourteenth Amendment of our U.S. Constitution defines a citizen “a citizen” at birth. If a woman is carrying a fetus in the womb, the U.S. Constitution does not designate the fetus as “a citizen.” It would take an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to declare a fetus a citizen. You have to be born in order to be recognized as a citizen. Therefore, a woman does have the right to choose. A fetus inside the womb is not designated as a citizen according to the U.S. Constitution so by default is not entitled to life, liberty, or prosperity. You have to be born in order to be endowed with those privileges. To conclude, neither the Federal government nor any of the States can deny a woman the right to choose.
If abortion is murder, abortion would have been terminated years ago due to the cruel and unusual punishment clause under the Eighth Amendment. Again, proof that a fetus is not recognized as a citizen of the United States of America.
It's a woman's right to decide what happens to her body, which includes having a baby. Therefore they can chose to not have a baby. Therefore abortion is fine.
Also, because there is not scientifically agreed upon age of development at which a foetus becomes a human, you can't say that abortion is murder because you can't prove that a feutus of any age is technically human.
But why go with those other ways? If your mother doesn't like you and people are still having babies, the world wouldn't miss you and would help solve the 'overpopulation problem'
