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Debate Info

25
25
Yes, fate does No, fate does not
Debate Score:50
Arguments:45
Total Votes:53
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes, fate does (24)
 
 No, fate does not (19)

Debate Creator

Grandpa(69) pic



Does Fate Exist?

Does fate control everyone's lives or does one make their own destiny?

Yes, fate does

Side Score: 25
VS.

No, fate does not

Side Score: 25
1 point

People will act to the maxim of what they see as satisfying to their needs mentally and physically. What one sees as satisfying depends on past experiences and natural hungers. The laws of nature control what actions a person is physically capable of committing.

So even while a person is physically capable of committing many acts at any time they will pick a certain one because of who they are and if you could take every variable into account you could predict exactly what they will do.

Side: Yes, fate does
jessald(1915) Disputed
3 points

Predicting someone's actions doesn't mean they are "fated" to do something. That word holds supernatural connotations.

I think "free will" is the phrase you're looking for.

I do believe we have free will. Our mind allows us to make arbitrary choices that could easily go against our "natural hungers."

Side: No, fate does not

While I don't think fate controls one's life I do believe in fate if you're speaking of destiny being a factor in your life. I've seen fate in action many times in my life so I do believe in its truth. It's kind of like being in the right place at the right time. Most things you've done put you in that right place at that time and there is no way one could have driven themselves there.

I'll take an example or two from my life and I'll be anxious to know what you think of these things. In May 1996 I bought a Honda Civic Ex. I had never had a car with four seats before and wondered why I bought that at the time. I was strictly a two seater convertible person for years. My mother had a severe cerebral hemorrhage in October of 1996 and I needed that car to carry her wheelchair around and it fit in the back seat nicely. At about the same time my boss was clearing out his belongings from our Brooklyn office and moving up to the Catskill mountains. That was in the summer of '99. I was also working as a process server at the same time I was playing P.I. but that I could do at my leisure. In late September I got bored with it and left. This made me available to care for my mother and move back home just in time.

I had just settled a WCB case in early 1997 which gave me the means to eventually buy my own business. I sold that for double what I paid for it just after Mom died. Had I now been in the territory that wouldn't have happened. I took the proceeds and bought my condo which appreciated 2 and 1/2 times in the course of one year. Even if I sold below that, I'd have more than my money back. Right time, right place = Fate.

Many years ago I had dropped my mom off at the airport at JFK and wished her a happy trip home to Berlin, Germany. On my way home I had the queerest feeling inside. I had told my mother's boss I would take her place while she was gone and had done so many times before. I walked in the store the next morning and promptly announced I was leaving for Berlin by mid-week. I had a strong feeling I'd never see my grandmother again if I didn't. He pooh-pooed me but I left and enjoyed my trip. My grandmother was fine. Two weeks later I was on another plane headed back to Berlin to see my grandmother who had had a massive stroke and knew no one anymore. Fate? Yes, I believe it was! The last word I ever heard her say was "Puppa!" my nickname as I was growing up...it means doll. And that was it.

Side: Yes, fate does
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

Those examples are powerful stories, but to me it looks like a textbook example of confirmation bias. What about all the times that you were in the wrong place at the wrong time? You don't think about those cases at all, yet these few coincidences burn brightly in your mind.

In the words of Leo Tolstoy, "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their life".

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

Oh Jess...you know darned well that good does not come without being in the wrong place at the wrong time, however, albeit fate as well those situations can lead you to places that end up to be good places and places that gave you something, taught you something and brought you to other bad or good places. Come on, you know I'm not that dull witted.

Side: Yes, fate does

As everyone on this site already knows, I back science on every level, but I have to say, fate is definitely very, very real. I think that people can control their lives in terms of minor details, but on many levels, we have no control.

Now while I'm saying this, keep in mind destiny and fate are two different things.

Definition for fate -something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune

Definition for destiny- the predetermined, usually inevitable or irresistible, course of events

Fate is something that is definitely going to happen to a person, while destiny is what you are definitely, unavoidably going to do with your life, whether you like it or not. I think we have at least that much control over our lives.

I know to some, this argument may not make any sense, but you guys need to think about this. It's a tough topic to talk about, like life after death, or that sort of thing. The supernatural, paranormal, magical aspects of the universe aren't always obvious to the dull-minded, average person, but you never know, right?

Side: Fate but not destiny
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

"The supernatural, paranormal, magical aspects of the universe aren't always obvious to the dull-minded, average person..."

Wow, that doesn't sound arrogant at all... lol

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

We all have a fate to be somebody and do something, but that doesn't mean we have no say over our fate. We have free will and are able to make decisions in the present to alter the future. We may all have our own fates, but they are not set in stone.

Side: Yes, fate does

No, nothing is set in stone...but isn't it strange how things impact other things and one doesn't even know why or how.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

Kind of like the butterfly effect: how one flap of a butterfly's wings can set in motion a chain of events that could alter the world entirely. It's pretty amazing to imagine.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

I do believe that fate does exist. Fate is like a strange, unpopular restaurant filled with odd waiters who bring you things you never asked for and don't always like. However, fate can be a misconseption; like the saying "everything happens for a reason," it's only a cover-up for the fact you don't have control over your own life.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

If by "fate" you mean does random chance effect people's lives, then yes, of course. I think terms like "fate" and "destiny" get thrown around too much with out having a concrete definition behind them.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

When you hold something heavy in your hand, hold it straight out in front of you, what would happen if you were to release it?

This is a simple prediction based on empirical wisdom. We all know the object will fall. How do we know this? How are we so sure it will fall, do we know the future? No. We've seen it happen a million times though and we somewhat understand the way mass and gravity work. Heavier things will accelerate to terminal velocity faster than lighter things because of their volume. The more volume per mass, the more or less something will be effected by the atmosphere. There is a lot involved with prediction, and the more complex something becomes the harder it is to predict.

Fate is a personified concept of time, or an event. An event with, or seeming to have, purpose. Really though, if the human mind had the capacity, and the human body have the same capacity, we could know everything. The future, the past. Like a game of chess, you could be five steps ahead of any event you wanted to counter, or even follow every event to it's end, if there be one.

The complexity involved is so fucking intense though, that the brain needed to comprehend all of this would have to be bigger than the universe and be forever thinking. This is where, I think, the idea of the universe and all of existence being nothing more than God's thought process comes from.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

fate all depends on what your religion is. For me since im a christian i believe that god has a fate already designed for us but he does give us a choice, yet he already knows what we will choose. That is what fate is...... not just some magic that happens but a course that will happen with your life

Side: Yes and No
1 point

fate all depends on what your religion is. For me since im a christian i believe that god has a fate already designed for us but he does give us a choice, yet he already knows what we will choose. That is what fate is...... not just some magic that happens but a course that will happen with your life

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

Fate in a sense certainly exists and while it can not be proved, it can be reasoned using obvious logic. Everything that occurs does so because of a set of previous occurrences coming into conjunction. In the case of a person making a choice, the choice is decided upon using a large collection of categorized biases. All though biases are based upon others and so on. All of which leading back to a singular particle that developed down one path instead of only one other possible option and thus paved the way for the entire universe. Down to a simple electron, all are choices are inevitable. The bonding of two atoms being possible and two others being impossible is all due to the biases of those atoms, which are thusly because of the biases of an electron. If you continue down the scale you would find the particle that started the entire process leading up to what you choose to eat for dinner tonight. To say that the universe doesn't follow a set path would mean that random occurrences are possible. This is however not the case. An experiment to prove this statement and my argument as a whole, I'm using the word "prove" a bit strongly, would be to think critically about what a random occurrence is. If you can establish any sort happening or effect that is with a cause of any kind, then I am wrong. Keep in mind that unknown causes are still causes.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

Fate is the only possible scenario due to mathematics. The fact that everything in the universe can be calculated lends itself to the fact that no matter what we do, the course of our life is already set as each microsecond is just the sum of the calculations made to get to this point in time. Even if you read this and think you will change something in your life to prove this isn’t so, the fact you are reading this was always intended, and any consequent actions on your part are just a result of the calculations which have taken place to lead you to read this. Even the firing of synapses in your brain could be calculated and predicted along their inevitable path and hence even your dreams would be predictable. Obviously this would never be possible as the amount of processing power required to predict it would be impossible to generate as it would need to predict itself and be in an infinite loop, and trying to calculate everything is a ridiculous concept so therefore can only ever be a theory. This is along the principles of the butterfly effect.

Moreover in my personal view based on no facts what so ever I think this can explain why we will never be able to time travel. Time, as we know it, is merely our perceived view on existence. We are purely viewing time in a state where everything exists and adheres to our laws of physics based purely on the speed at which we see it happening and we only exist at that speed. Everything in our lives has already happened, I have already died, the world has already ended, however we are viewing it at a much slower rate so have yet to catch up these events. If we managed to travel into the future we would be seeing calculations before they have taken place in the correct order in which case our laws of physics would not apply as every single calculation in the universe is dependent on those around it, water may cease to be liquid, or be water, metal may be gas etc. If we tried to go back in time we would be seeing calculations happening at a slower rate so their state would be different, every property of every molecule would change. I think life is like an old VHS video, we can only view it properly at a certain speed if we try to view it during fast forward it makes no sense, if we try to view it during rewind it makes no sense, however the beginning middle and end are set, the fact they exist on the tape means they have already happened and we are just viewing them at a set speed? i.e. fate exists and there is nothing we can do to change it!

Side: Yes, fate does

Everything is pre-destined and no one can change his/her destiny.

Side: Yes, fate does
1 point

A child was born in 1996 because I had attempted a letter to his mother on New Year's Eve 1969. His mother was born in August 1971. His father in 1973. Guess what? No one can fake the births of three people.

Side: Yes, fate does
Amarel(4910) Clarified
2 points

This is a pretty strange post. .

Side: Yes, fate does
Mingiwuwu(1779) Clarified
1 point

"I had attempted a letter to his mother on New Year's Eve 1969. His mother was born in August 1971."

- angelosmihai

Side: Yes, fate does

Maybe there are certain milestones you have to complete in your lifetime but you get to decide how you achieve those goals.

Side: No, fate does not

"does fate exist"

The word Fate is derived from the latin word Fata with its neutral plural form as Fatum. It's interesting to look further into the word Fatum as it has some original meanings which not only delve further into destiny/fate, but also seems to point to a word spoken by the gods or so it was a decision of the gods. It can also mean death hence the current use of words like fatal.

The word existence is from latin origin, some usages are to stand forth, come forth, arise, be.

In those respects, yes fate and exist are modern words from a latin origin.

"Does fate control everyone's lives or does one make their own destiny? "

free will comes to mind.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr;=&id;=6DrNDONGuAQC&oi;=fnd&pg;=PA128&dq;=Philosophy+Fate+vs+free+will&ots;=jIP-3jhoJi&sig;=XeSSNzwXPHjG3e8yTHJaU13467A

I know it doesn't sound romantic, but we are machines made up of organic matter. That is the purpose of our biology and genes; to continue to function until it can no longer can. You can expand this further to explain other organisms and even the universe.

My point. Your title of debate and statement whether we have free will or if we are pre-programmed, along with your argument sides (yes fate does exist vs no fate does not) is confusing and doesn't make sense.

On one hand you ask about the existence of fate. Fate is not being, it does not have life or animation nor does it come forth, appear or emerge. You then give fate the authority to control. Since when did fate have control? Can you prove of this control? On the other you speak to the existence of free will or being pre-programmed as a means of fate and destiny. What does fate or destiny have to do with human biology? How can one decide ones future if one does not know the future? Destiny, "the predetermined, usually inevitable or irresistible, course of events" how can free will have anything to this. How can one control a destiny? Do you see what i'm getting at?

Side: No, fate does not
2 points

I've said this in another post here before, but it's the only response I have for this question. If you believe in fate, go driving, let go of the wheel, and slam on the gas for a few minutes. Don't worry, if your not supposed to die, you won't, but if you are, we'll that's one less irrational person on our hands.

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

no, unless you can prove otherwise, it doesn't exist.

it's actually pretty simple. to you it may exist, but that doesn't change the fact that you have no evidence to back it up.

Side: No, fate does not
altarion(1955) Disputed
2 points

have you any evidence that it doesn't exist?

what you are proposing can be played out in two ways.

Way 1: I propose that fate does not exist.

So since there is no evidence to say that fate does exist, the proposal passes and fate does not exist.

Way 2: I propose that fate does exist.

So since there is no evidence to say that fate does not exist, the proposal passes and fate does exist.

Your argument is flawed to the highest extent.

Side: Neutral
ThePyg(6756) Disputed
1 point

then prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist.

wait, prove that shmarky the darky doesn't exist.

here's the fact. you don't need to prove that something doesn't exists because common sense would already say "well, do you have any evidence? no, then why the fuck are you talking about it?"

Intelligent design at least works mathematically and explains paradoxes. but fate, there's really nothing that can back it up... at all.

Side: No, fate does not
shelbysnazz(2) Disputed
1 point

your destiny/fate cannot be predetermined.

the word fate implies that the things you do are because an unknown force controls your actions/choices, for some already planned purpose or reason which takes place in the future. nothing can happen for a 'reason' because if predetermination doesnt exist, then the ideas of reason,purpose,destiny,fate,and future-all a form of predetermination-don't exist either.

if you have the power to make choices in life, even just 1, then that would mean that nothing can be predetermined. you either have all the power or none of the power.every statement has connotations and implied undertones, which make finite truths. because of this, all statements also imply that because these connotations and undertones exist, certain things do not exist as well. similar to you can't be moving forwards and backwards at the same time.

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

The only fate in this world is the one you force yourself to create. Life's a joke, so laugh.

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

the events the happen in your life are determined by the choices you make. and 'fate', or destiny, is not predetermined.

the word fate implies that the things you do are because an unknown force controls your actions/choices, for some already planned purpose or reason which takes place in the future. nothing can happen for a 'reason' because if predetermination doesnt exist, then the ideas of reason,purpose,destiny,fate,and future-all a form of predetermination-don't exist either.

if you have the power to make choices in life, even just 1, then that would mean that nothing can be predetermined. you either have all the power or none of the power.every statement has connotations and implied undertones, which make finite truths. because of this, all statements also imply that because these connotations and undertones exist, certain things do not exist as well.you can't be moving forwards and backwards at the same time.

"People will act to the maxim of what they see as satisfying to their needs mentally and physically. What one sees as satisfying depends on past experiences [and future goals]"-grandpa for pro fate

when someone experiences something they enjoy, they think that 'because i feel good, and i'd like to feel good all the time, this is right.' or, 'it must be fate.' this is because as self centered beings we think that the rest of the world cares about our happiness and even strives for it. and, if i am happy, that must mean that the world is achieving their goals. the definition of fate is not things going the way that you hoped they would go. fate is a force controllling/deciding what takes place in order for an event to happen, not in order for you to feel like the world is in balance. even though that event may make you feel a certain way, the event isn't happening in order to effect you.

so basically, you are saying something you don't actually mean. you are fate the wrong definition, or you are defining something other than fate. its like you say 'this is unbelievable!' no it's not, because then you wouldnt be mentally capable of comprehending it' you actually mean 'this is very impressive or enjoyable!' so, based on the supporting arguments, you are just using the wrong term

because the argument "I do believe in fate if you're speaking of destiny being a factor in your life."-kuklapolitcan, supporting argument is not a valid point. by saying destiny is a factor in your life, you are combining two opposing forces that cannot exist together. fate/destiny implies that everything happens for a reason. this means that nothing can't happen for a reason so factor would not exist. choices are a type of factor. both cannot exist at the same time. all outcomes are affeccted by the choices you make each moment, so you can attempt to make choices that will guide you towards a desired outcome, but the outcome is never known.

every present moment is affected by the past choices,but you don't know where each choice coud take you. so you can only guess/hope that the choice you make will lead you to the next choice which leads only to the next one, and 'finally' onto 'the right choice', also known as a goal. the future does not exist. only the past and the present. because if you change the past, you change the future, in turn, eliminating fate.

you can make choices based on a goal. based on past experience, you hypothesize that by making certain choices, you will be more likely to be able to complete that goal. though, no choice is ever guaranteed to bring you to the next desired choice. you would want some milk so you make a goal to go to the kitchen. based on when you last went to the store, you hypothesize that theres a likely chance you can complete that goal. so you choose to walk down the hall. you choose NOT to wear shoes to the kitchen because based on the other hundred times you've gone to the kitchen, you wer barefoot and everything went smoothly. you suddenly snag your toe on the carpet and end up dying before you reach the kitchen.

you can also reverse this logic. if you made it to the fridge by choosing to take every step and opened it, drank the milk, put it back, and you felt good because you achieved your goal. you wanted to drink the milk, it turned out to be in the fridge, so it's fate! right? wrong. you chose to drink the milk once u saw it in the fridge, instead of choosing to pee inside the milk jug. so you controlled that event and that's why it happened. not all choices are obvious. and you make the same choices everytime in the same situation so having a choice sometimes seems irrelevant.

the milk is still in the fridge. and just because you didn't drink it, doesn't mean it's suddenly gone. if you hadn't died, the milk would have been there for you to drink. and because you didn't drink it, it remains in the fridge until someone finds your dumb dead body 3 weeks later. the milk stands tall, with or without you.

just because you meet a goal doesn't mean it was planned. or that 'it was meant to happen' it just means that your rational thinking skills aren't completely broken. you made choices based on setting a goal that you felt had a good chance at achieving. so of course it worked out just like you thought it would. you wouldn't try to sky dive without a parachute, because based on what you know, not dying would be hard to achieve.

fate doesn't exist. the ability to make decisions in the hopes of achieving a goal is possible, and it's called knowledge. being satisfied and happy about achieving that goal is called pride. when you feel like there is a reason, or a purpose, for your satisfaction towards an event, it is not because of fate. but because you are a human who has the ability to learn and experience in order to make choices based on knowlege and are very satisfied and proud of yourself when you successfully complete a plan.

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

Fate does not exsist. Basicaly if it did we would have no meaning for life( which is a lifelong question), But i believe people say fate exsists so they don't have to say a god controls our actions. Another tie in to that is if fate exists it gives us something to blame the bad things on. If there is fate you don't need responsibility for your actions, like when you break an expencive vase and your parents say," Take responsibility for what you've done." if there was fate, they wouldn't be mad at tou because you "couldn't control your actions".

Side: No, fate does not
1 point

It might be possible to track and project the course of all particles and energies that exist and thus "look" at/into the future. Nothing is determined, everything can be changed, especially considering that looking into the future is most probably possible, although not with our current technology and science. You look and you change the course of events.

Well, that way it could be possible to look at the looking into the future and how things will be changed, and so on. But still, nothing is written in stone. What if an influence from outside of our system comes in and changes something you "saw" or calculated, and makes all of it invalid?

Side: No, fate does not