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Does God Have Any Influence on The World???
I have had long discussions with religious people about God but I have challenged their God to battles and none have had enough power to affect anything in our world. If God is real then what can God do??
God has no influence over any of these things. People who believe there is a God have influence but without people following ancient texts there would be nothing of God.
God has no influence over any of these things. People who believe there is a God have influence but without people following ancient texts there would be nothing of God.
Of course God has a huge infuence in this world. Look at America since the lie of separation of church and state.
Our moral values nose dived since the hideous censorship of Christian expression in public even though no one is forced to participate.
It matters not if you deny the huge increase in broken homes or the huge numbers of people signing up for welfare, etc. These are consequences of separation and the bigoted insults from Atheists and the Liberal media over any mention of our Christian heritage.
The sexual revolution has filled the vacuum created when our Christian heritage was censored.
I would say that there is no evidence that God has played any part in any of the things you have mentioned.
You speak of moral values declining by what do you gauge this. I have read the Bible and the morality seemed worse at that time then now. I look back at the Nazi era and see better morality now. I look back at the slavery here in the USA all perpetrated by good Christian folks and think the morality is better now. Please explain yourself!
You seriously are blaming the atheists for the broken homes and number of people on welfare. I'll bet you can't back that up with evidence because it is a lie. Christian marriages fail at a higher rate than atheist marriages. Most poor people that need help from the government are Christian also. Google it before you just spew out hateful lies
I could care less the evil things people do who call themselves Christians. Hitler, the nazi's, the KKK are not Christian. God says you will know a Christian by their love. Killing slaves is not love! Choosing to have an affair on your spouse is not love. Abandoning your children is not love.
All these people who you claim are Christian, are not choosing to live the Christian life. They are no different from Atheists or anyone else putting self over God.
I will repeat, the swollen welfare roles and broken homes are a result of people walking away from God. I could care less if they still claim to be Christian while they spit on everything God stands for.
But your post makes no sense and is filled with false claims.
Like when you say the welfare rolls and poverty and broke homes are results of those people turning from God.
Yet.....did you know that the poor and destitute, those on welfare or living in poverty are twice as likely to be churchgoers and Christians as educated employed guys like me? Who is an atheist?
So how do you explain this?
And this most religious States in the country are the poorest, with the worst quality of living.
Explain this.
Why does God not protect and help his most devout?
Explain that.
And you never answered why God allows church buses to crash and natural disasters to kill believers.
Explain that.
Evil in the world.......
Explain.
See......
Either God is impotent for not being able to prevent evil, or he is cruel for allowing it when he CAN stop it.
All those people living irresponsibly ARE NOT LIVING AS CHRISTIANS. They are living the world's lifestyles of if it feels good , do it, and this is why they end up on welfare.
Most people on welfare created their own problems by choosing promiscuous sex with people they do not love. They end up getting pregnnt with some idiot who abandons his child. These people are living no part of the Christian life.
All your so called statistics about Christian divorces, christians on welfare etc. are laughable. There are 83% of Americns who identify wth the Christian faith and there are few who actually try to live by the Christian values spelled out in the Bible. They simply call temselves Christians even though they could care less what the Bible says.
All those people living irresponsibly ARE NOT LIVING AS CHRISTIANS.
If they are Christians, they are living as Christians. That's it.
They are living the world's lifestyles of if it feels good , do it, and this is why they end up on welfare.
Just no. You really have no basis for that.
Most people on welfare created their own problems by choosing promiscuous sex with people they do not love. They end up getting pregnnt with some idiot who abandons his child. These people are living no part of the Christian life.
Factually untrue.
All your so called statistics about Christian divorces, christians on welfare etc. are laughable. There are 83% of Americns who identify wth the Christian faith
Then they are Christian
.
and there are few who actually try to live by the Christian values spelled out in the Bible.
Nobody follows all of them, nor should they.
They simply call temselves Christians even though they could care less what the Bible says.
If they believe in the divinity of Christ, they are Christian by definition.
You have created your own definition of Christian that, while defying the very concept of Christianity itself, prevents you from ever admitting you are wrong whilst generalizing everyone else around you.
Is Christianity about Love?? Matt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
This does not sound like Love the way I (an atheist) love.
As for beating or killing slaves maybe you should read what Jesus says about that in Luke 12:44-49 You have the wrong idea of what the Bible says about Jesus.
You are doing what all bigots do. Twist the meaning of the words in the Bible. Any Christian knows what God is saying here.
First he saying that to be a Christian, you must put your faith in God over everything else. This includes Christ being Lord of your life over your prents or anyone else. It does not mean to stop loving your parents etc.
This is where you can not take verses out of context. If you read the many other verses that says to honor your mother and father, you understand what the Bible is saying as a whole.
It's funny how I just copied the words from Bible yet you read them and claimed that I am twisting the meaning of the words. I was silent about the meaning. The Good book is not very good and most Christians only think it's good because the common practice of Christianity is to twist the 35% of the Bible that they do know into some God of love and happiness. That is a little 10% or less part what the Bible says.
My words are clear and the Bible is clear. Olny a bigot would try to twist them into anything other than what they are.
Bigots like you do what the Lberal media constantly does. You take words out of context.
When trump says he wants to put a moratorium on Muslims coming to this nation so they can figure out how to prevent terrorists from coming in, the Media starts spewing how he wants to ban all Muslims from this nation.
That's what you do with the Bible. You take one verse to try and push your narative no matter how many other verses clarify the meaning of the verse you mention.
Less violence, less poverty, no slavery, women's rights, etc. Seems like a pretty moral place to me. Clearly we have some work to do, mind you, but I'll take abortion over the systemic enslavement of human beings and the genocide of a native population. You know, things that happened during our "Christian heritage".
Everything you mentioned that has gotten better in this nation is a direct result of our Christian heritage. Bigots like you always try to say it was Christians who created the evils of slavery, etc.
Keep spewing the nonsense that those who did evil such as the KKK were actually Christians. God says you will know a Christian by their love!!!! Not by simply calling themselves Christians.
Then prove how it is a result of our Christian heritage. You on one hand keep claiming that because our Christian heritage is going away, things are getting worse. Then when people point out ways that things are getting better, you claim it is because of this very heritage you say is being eradicated.
Logically, you can't have it both ways.
Bigots like you always try to say it was Christians who created the evils of slavery, etc.
First, nothing I have said to you was bigoted. Second, I never claimed nor did I ever believe that Christians created slavery. Your reliance upon straw-men generalizations betrays the illegitimacy of your stance. Christians didn't create Slavery, but the largest, most heinous system of slavery ever created was justified using Christian theology.
Keep spewing the nonsense that those who did evil such as the KKK were actually Christians.
A Christian is one who believes in the divinity of Christ. That's it. Literally anything beyond that falls into No True Scotsman. That's the entire reason why there are hundreds of Christian denominations. You have no authority, theologically or linguistically, to claim that these people, who do believe in the divinity of Christ, aren't Christian.
Now go ahead. Keep calling me names in lieu of presenting counter arguments.
Edit: Oh and seriously, enough with this "EVERY DISAGREEMENT WITH ME IS A DECEPTION" stuff. Seriously, it's ridiculous.
You are blind to history if you do not know that Christianity brought light to this once dark world.
Before Christ was born, our world was living in constant war. Christianity brought force the radical notion of loving our enemies and turning the other cheek.
America was born from our Christian heritage, a thirst for religious freedom, and has been the biggest force for peace on this planet.
Now along came the bigoted man who rebels from any notion of personal responsibility and moral values. His humanist God says we are all just animals living by our base instincts programmed from billions and billions and billions of years of random mutation creating our complex DNA.
It is the Godless man and war like religions teaching their followers to kill their enemies, that has done the most damage to this world.
You are blind to history if you do not know that Christianity brought light to this once dark world.
That isn't an argument.
Before Christ was born, our world was living in constant war. Christianity brought force the radical notion of loving our enemies and turning the other cheek.
More people have died from wars after the birth of Christ than those who died before.
America was born from our Christian heritage, a thirst for religious freedom, and has been the biggest force for peace on this planet.
Actually, America was born from Post-Enlightenment Liberalism. That's why our Constitution is full of homages to the likes of Hume and Locke, and only one mention of God (and that's in the date).
Now along came the bigoted man who rebels from any notion of personal responsibility and moral values.
Almost nobody actually believes that. The thing is, because you are bigoted, you think that anyone who disagrees with you does believe that.
His humanist God says we are all just animals living by our base instincts programmed from billions and billions and billions of years of random mutation creating our complex DNA.
Again, almost nobody says that. We say that we are are animals (that's an objective fact, we belong to kingdom Animalia) and that we do have base instincts programmed, be it from evolution or creation (I won't call it intelligent because our design isn't all that intelligent for the most part). But leaving it there omits our omniscience and its importance.
It is the Godless man and war like religions teaching their followers to kill their enemies, that has done the most damage to this world.
The thing is, Christianity is one of those war like religions, both in teachings and in historic fact. There's nothing wrong with admitting that and recognizing it has, in most parts of the world, evolved (ha) beyond that. It lends your views, and Christianity, far more legitimacy then when you try to white-wash Christian history and essentially claim that the majority of Christians throughout European history simply weren't Christian at all.
Do you read what you write? Is the world currently at peace or are there wars going on currently? Much of the current hate in the world is religion based. Look at how Christians treat homosexuals and atheists. Look at how Muslims treat people of any other faith. So how many of those good Christians that moved to America took part in the extermination of the native Americans?? Look at what this great Christian nation has been known for, for the past 100 years. Military power, the ability and will to kill thousands of people better than any other country in the world. Were atheists the ones who nuked Japan? NO, they were good Christians. Let's have a little reality check, people with Gods no less violent.
Do you actually hear the lunacy of what you just say?
IT WAS THE CHRISTIANS WHO KILLED INDIANS!
IT WAS CHRISTIANS WHO NUKED JAPAN!
LOL, no it was our military that nuked Japan with the support of most Americans in a time of war (Atheists included) and our military that killed indians at a time of war. If an indian war tribe killed your family, I bet you would support fighting back.
Atheists killed Indians as well. THOSE EVIL ATHEISTS, RIGHT?
It was our nation which the "Christian Heritage" as you said. Or are you going to claim that our US military personnel are not part of our country's Christian Heritage. You seem to get amnesia about the bad actions of our Nation with that Christian Heritage, or you think that only people of other faiths or atheists controlled the bad things that were done. The Facts are the Facts Christians have no higher moral code than atheists. EQUAL, imagine that!!
200 countries - there are 2.18 billion Christians of all ages around the world, representing nearly a third of the estimated 2010 global population of 6.9 billion. Christians are also geographically widespread – so far-flung, in fact, that no single continent or region can indisputably claim to be the center of global Christianity.
Most of the hate in the world today is Muslim Radicalized Islam
An interesting source of truth on the matter is Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars, which chronicles some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature,2 which is an astonishingly low 6.98% of all wars. However, when one subtracts out those waged in the name of Islam (66), the percentage is cut by more than half to 3.23%.Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost
Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
Pol Pot - 2,397,0003
Rummel says: “Almost 170 million men, women and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed or killed in any other of a myriad of ways governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people. It is though our species has been devastated by a modern Black Plague. And indeed it has, but a plague of Power, not germs.”4
The historical evidence is quite clear: Religion is not the #1 cause of war.
To be honest I wish there was a third option on here ...because GOD created the earth for so many reasons he is not a one reason at a time GOD he does so many things at once .....he created this earth to know who does and does not love him .....people are like jelly doughnuts. ..when the pressure is on you see what's inside ...if your evil and under stress evil will ooze out if your good good will ooze out . . I can't help but giggle at how Christians and Satanists have similar rituals and dates and symbols. ..why one can't tell were the modern church ends and the Baal worship begins .....and people are so poorly educated they can't see the asshole shitting on them nothing the masses believe is real nothing for one Jesus is not his name he wasn't born in winter solstice he wasn't black or white....he was a rabbi his name is YASHUA....he was born in late summer early fall...best solar date is September 11th ....wow our enemies laughing about that and I don't mean the set up Muslims .....you are all under the great deception. ..even you Christians have no clue what the hell your saying the same lame hollow argument every time ....if anyone is interested I can summarize aliens Egypt creek gods and all the current events I can also tell you what will happen next ...but I refuse to write any more unless asked or challenged.....because most of you will not listen not read what I write or investigate anything not spoon fed to you from the media controlled by 6 CORPERATIONS ....and all six owned by the same players ....the players who want to kill 7billion of you and your all dancing to there song and not noticing the fires being set in the exits of the dance hall .....when will you wake up ....CHRISTIANS ...GOD said the great deception and if it were possible even the very elect would be fooled ...if you think you got it figured out research the word Easter and explain how that is any different then Moses coming down my Sinai seeing is real worship Baal as mithras. ....the Satanists laugh at you as every Easter Sunday you idiots worship ishtar the wife of baal. ...YASHUA died on Passover and rose on the festival of first fruits. ....on MONDAY YOU IDIOTS .....Easter only has one translation. ...ishtar. ..you don't even know spit about GOD and you think you can speak for him ....you all make me sick ......thousands of little kids sold as sex slaves in heriams over sees and how many of your churches have a service on that ....bet you had one on tithing to the fuckin building fund....with your Easter billboards and winter solstic celebration. ...I can lambast you all day but your my brethren ....unfortunately ...now watch you condem my words ...but I don'tworship idols ....or engage in mutated world church ....have no other gods before me .....not dnot cuss ...I sware because I'm as mad as Moses at you feeble Christians .....love thine enemy not condem....the first two commands and your dropping both .....depart from him he never knew you....repent and stop idol worship before you participate in a ritual RESEARCH it all the way ....NOW GO KNOW YOUR ROOTS BEFORE YOU TRY TO BLOSSOM
Your take on God is interesting, So do you believe that God is not omniscient? According to the Bible God knows the future so God already knows who loves him or doesn't love him. God doesn't need to allow the world to be in naturally occurring state of chaos. If a God existed that God should have created the world the way that it was meant to be instead of a disappointing mess that God was unable to fix even by killing almost living thing and all but 8 people. If you are to follow the supposed word of God. What convinces you to believe that a God exists?
Free will is your choice, But God already knows the outcome. Like Judas, God knew he was the son of perdition. He knew of his betrayal.
He was chosen as a vessel of dishonor.
We are free to choose but God knows who our hearts become. And you can't choose good if your heart is evil.
And you can't choose evil if your heart is good.
Your choices follow the desires of your heart.
A good person can choose to do something wrong, and feels remorse, and that standard of concience and remorse makes a person freely choose, without compulsion, to make choices of good, and be remorseful when choosing something against his concience.
A bad person is not likely to choose to do something good, unless there is external motivation. And will only have remorse when there is loss or punishment, but NOT from internal conflict of conscious.
The concious and standard of right and wrong that separate good from evil. Not necessarily their choices.
If God is the creator of all things. Why would God have created things wrong if God was omniscient? Genesis6:6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. If God's desire was to create a better man then why not just do it? According to God, God hates evil, if this is the case then why create evil beings? This is how you can know that men created this God.
God DID and DOES know what was going to happen up till the end, and he did it anyway.
If there is a God, questioning it, to find a logical answer is as irrational as discussing in detail the household budget to a 4 year old. Its not exactly comprehensible, because of prospective and understanding we have would be limited.
God did know, the writings of the Apostles were clear, God knew that Judas would be the betrayer and for 30 coins, He new the Jews would reject Him (Jesus) And Jesus showed the same, Omniscience. He told Peter he (Peter) would also be crucified, and Jesus new Lazarus would be dead on His arrival. Jesus claimed there was 1 thing the Father God knew, but He did not know, and thats the day or hour of the end. See link.
When God created man, he gave them an image like his own. And free will set man apart from all animals.The elemeant of complicated thought, and choice of will.
When God designed people He would 1 day fill His Heavens with, He wanted a people that chose Him. People who loved Him by choice.So maybe this all seems like an odd game for God to play, but he knows our choices of will also.
And he makes vessels of honor and also vessels of dishonor.
My thought is, God makes the choice of vessels of dishonor, on the basis of His Omnicience. He already knows in advance their choice of will.
So even though we have free wiill of choice, us going through life and making that "choice" is the fullfillment of Gods design because choice is only way to be children of the Father, there is purpose for our walk in life.
One reason for those purposes is a matter of distinction. The comtrast between good and evil, and the contrast between the children of God and those who are not.
We chose the knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve ate from that tree, before then theybonly new God, and good.There is no choice without the presence of evil. So evil must exist in order for free wiil to have the element of choice.
Abraham’s descendants, -: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is a word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” 14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25As He says also in Hosea, “I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,’ AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.’” 26“AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ‘YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,’ THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.”27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; 28FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD UPON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.” 29And just as Isaiah foretold, “EXCEPT THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY, WE WOULD HAVE BECOME AS SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH.” 30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33just as it is written, “BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
Jesus said there is none good. There is none good, no not one, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I smell a heretic, no surprise when a woman is trying to control the pulpit.
God did know what was going to happen up till the end, and he did it anyway. If there is a God, questioning it, to find a logical answer is as irrational as discussing in detail the household budget to a 4 year old. Its not exactly comprehensible, because of prospective and understanding we have would be limited.
God did know, the writings of the Apostles were clear, God knew that Judas would be the betrayer and for 30 coins, He new the Jews would reject Him (Jesus) And Jesus showed the same, Omniscience. He told Peter he (Peter) would also be crucified, and Jesus new Lazarus would be dead on His arrival. Jesus claimed there was 1 thing the Father God knew, but He did not know, and thats the day or hour of the end. See link.
When God created man, he gave them an image like his own. And free will set man apart from all animals.
The elemeant of complicated thought, and choice of will.
When God designed people He would 1 day fill His Heavens with, He wanted a people that chose Him. People who loved Him by choice.
So maybe this all seems like an odd game for God to play, but he knows our choices of will also. And he makes vessels of honor and also vessels of dishonor.
My thought is, God makes the choice of vessels of dishonor, because he already knows in advance their choice of will..
So even though we have free wiill of choice, going through life and making that "choice" is the way of Gods design because choice is only way to be children of the Father, there is purpose for the walk of life. And one reason for those purposes is a matter of distinction.
The comtrast between good and evil, and the contrast between the children of God and those who are not.
We chose the knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve ate from that tree, before then theybonly new God, and good.
There is no choice without the presence of evil. So evil must exist in order for free wiil to have the element of choice.
Abraham’s descendants, -: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is a word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25As He says also in Hosea,
“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,’
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.’”
26“AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ‘YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,’
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.”
27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; 28FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD UPON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.” 29And just as Isaiah foretold,
“EXCEPT THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY,
WE WOULD HAVE BECOME AS SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH.”
30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33just as it is written,
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
Evil has not always been present, there was a freedom of choice before some creatures turned to do and be evil.
The creatures always had the choice of refusing to do evil, until after they did the evil and became evildoers.
Satan has not always been evil co-existing with God. When God created Lucifer he was good and not evil, there was no evil in creation until Lucifer chose to rebel.
If you say "evil must exist in order for free wiil to have the element of choice.", your theology is going to have contradictory holes in it and you will not be able to answer people who blame God for allowing evil to exist.
Possibly, but I don't think so. Free will cannot exist, if choices to choose from do not exist.
Evil was present sometime before the fall of man. Or the the tree would not have possesed the fruit of knowledge of Evil along with the knowlege of Good.
There is no evil in God. But God always knew both good and evil.
He is and always has been God. God never changes!
God "Is," "I Am," He is Omnicient, Alpha and Omega, And another name of God is "Supreme Judge of All." So God is and always was the "Supreme Judge of All!" You can't be "Judge" unless there is something to judge.
So then, free will cannot exist without choice, there is no free will without the option of choice.
Both Angels and Man had free will to choose, and both had choices that existed simultaneously in Paradise.
Pride was the choice that existed for Lucifer. And free will of choice also existed for all the angels. Evidence as seen in the way they compared beauty and favoritism. Otherwise how would they know the difference from "being beautiful" to "being most beautiful," or the choice even existed to "exalt as a challenge to God" if the choice didn't already exist.
Lucifer and the Angels who fell with him, fell as a result of pride. So they also had a choice. Lucifer was most beautiful of all and pride was his evil choice.
After he was thrown down, was separated from God. Lucifer then existed with evil to tempt man.
The temptation given to Adam and Eve was to disobey God, BUT also its the same disobedience that tripped Lucifer "to be like God knowing good and evil."
The 1st fall was pride, then all of evil was realized. Then the 2nd was disobedience that also was pride, then for both evil was realized.
How would Lucifer have risen to challenge God and fallen, unless the evil to do so had existed as a choice.
And the tree held the knowledge of good and evil. So like Lucifer, the awareness of evil did not exist until they fell, and then were separated from the presence of God in paradise. But, still the choice of disobedience and of pride existed in paradise. Disobedience and pride are evil.
So choice of Lucifer was disobedience, pride, and worship of self. And the fall of man was also disobedience, pride, and worship of self.
And God also knew Lucifer's choice before it was made. So Lucifer, known by God to eventually choose pride, he was made to be a vessel of dishonor.
The evil that existed was pride. And he also took 1/3 of the angels with him by their own choosing.
So in discussing Lucifer and Adam and Eve, evil was present as a choice of free will.
They didnt have knowledge of distinction of good and evil, or they had not been introduced to evil yet. They had no knowledge of evil, only good. But the choice to know evil was taken.
It was Satan who said that to be like God was to know good and evil. That was a lie. To be like God is to be without evil. "Knowing" evil is what happened to Adam and Eve after they sinned. When they came to know evil, they had changed to be like devils and not like God.
I stated this already, the Bible is clear on it, Lucifer was perfect when he was created. There was a time when there was no evil in all of creation. God knew no evil because no evil existed. The way you are saying it implies evil existed before creatures chose to do evil. There was no evil until the first evil act. You can say the concept of evil existed before evil existed, but to say the concept of evil is equal to evil is wrong.
The way you are saying it, evil was a real thing with God throughout eternity past and always will be, correct?
It seems like you are promoting a ying/yang philosophy of the concept of good being non-existent if evil does not exist. Am I correct in my understanding of what you are saying? If so, then you are implying evil was present with God before He created anything, and He could have chosen to do evil Himself. This would be right in line with atheistic accusations against God being good.
someone has taught you to ride a high horse with a puffed up head so you think your feelings and ideas are equal to the word of God......Calvinists are like that, and Reformed Theology folks.....so are Seventh Day Adventists...which are you?
Could be Church of God or Pentecostal, but I'm leaning toward Reformed/Calvinistic
I litterally copied scripture backbto you in king james
Can you explain the scripturre I gave you from the king jame version
King James Bible
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
(Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:22-36)
the Great High Priest
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
I'm not interested, you have proclaimed enough heresy and you refuse to listen.
The way you are tying to explain evil is unbiblical and ineffective as the holes in your logic will draw flies, and they will buzz around it leading you in circles trying to make sense of what you are teaching......you can't even make sense of it yourself.
You ignore when I point out that things you say are not in the Bible, then you copy and paste Bible passages as if that is supposed to impress me.
It is for good reason that the Bible says the woman is not to usurp authority over
the man. You are putting yourself on a pedestal.
I have heard some good Bible teachers who are women, but you are not one of them. The one I am thinking of was sound enough doctrinally, but out of place preaching like a man. There are enough men in position serving God, the woman is imitating and trying to take authority over men. The other one I am thinking of does not portray herself as a preacher or authoritative over men. You fall short on both points, you would do better to pipe down and quit acting like you know everything regardless of what the Bible says and regardless of how statements you make go against the Bible.
So you are Seventh Day Adventist? I have met several women like you who are Seventh Day Adventists.....I do appreciate the fervency, but the wild carelessness regarding sound doctrine is counter productive.
And I gave you a scripture that says Jesus was tempted with all things yet He was without sin, and gave it to you King James style.
You are very judgemental, and you are not using scripture to back up anything you are accusing me of.
And be all things to all people.
If a culture doesnt allow women to speak, a woman wouldnt have respect if she surpassed the cultures ideas of women.
Woman in the Bible are also often a ref to the church.
The bride of Christ
A covering of Authority, there are gender roles. Her hair is her glory.
As the church we are covered
As a woman you are covered by your husband
As a church body you are covered by pasto, who is covered by other leadership. We all are covered by something, some is more time specific or culture specific, and its also establishing church government. So there is cooperative movement of the body.
1 is an arm, not all can be the same part, and Christ is the head.
And I am well beyond the years of pride of Bible knowledge that seems to exist in early years of new faith. Where arguing scripture is that important. The important thing isnt always our differenced.
Love is of God
So calling me a heretic over a dispute over if Jesus went to hell and set captives free, or of He was carried to Abrahams boosum is a non sense argument.
Saying Jesus didnt take on our flesh and maintain Being 100 % God
and 100 % man
Died on the cross as the Father laid on Him the sin and judgement of all and raise from the dead to give us the spirit of God so we also could walk in this nature and overcome also.
This is salvation!
This is born again!
Jesus became flesh, walked in it and overcame all, died and judgement of all was laid on him he rose sent the spirit for us to overcome and of course we will be raised with him in a new body
1Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 6The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. 7Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
8Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
The Lord's Approved Workman
14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
So you are Calvinistic reformed theology.....your manners and style are typical in those circles, elevating yourself in intellectual pride so you can ignore sound Biblical doctrine.
By total inability Calvin meant that a lost sinner cannot come to Jesus Christ and trust Him as Saviour, unless he is foreordained to come to Christ. By total inability he meant that no man has the ability to come to Christ. And unless God overpowers him and gives him that ability, he will never come to Christ
The above from the link you sent IS NOT what I said!
I said like scripture says he makes vessels of honor and dishonor.
My point which you are not addressing is NOT God foreordained!
My point is God is Omnicient He didnt make the choice for anyone He did not foreordain people for destruction.
But He knew every choice before it was made.
So therefore, God took vessels for good and used it in his work and plan for those who he knew from His Omnicience would be vessels of honor, because he knew their choice.
Foreordained would suggest God made the choice for them. It wouldnt be choice if there were no choice!
By total inability Calvin meant that a lost sinner cannot come to Jesus Christ and trust Him as Saviour, unless he is foreordained to come to Christ. By total inability he meant that no man has the ability to come to Christ. And unless God overpowers him and gives him that ability, he will never come to Christ
The above from the link you sent IS NOT what I said!
I said like scripture says he makes vessels of honor and dishonor.
My point which you are not addressing is NOT God foreordained!
My point is God is Omnicient He didnt make the choice for anyone He did not foreordain people for destruction.
But He knew every choice before it was made.
So therefore, God took vessels for good and used it in his work and plan for those who he knew from His Omnicience would be vessels of honor, because he knew their choice.
Foreordained would suggest God made the choice for them. It wouldnt be choice if there were no choice!
By total inability Calvin meant that a lost sinner cannot come to Jesus Christ and trust Him as Saviour, unless he is foreordained to come to Christ. By total inability he meant that no man has the ability to come to Christ. And unless God overpowers him and gives him that ability, he will never come to Christ
The above from the link you sent IS NOT what I said!
I said He makes vessels of honor and dishonor.
Examples -
He hardened Pharohs heart
He new Judas would betray Jesus
Your way says this, God didnt give Judas and Pharoah free will or choice! You by your thought, says God made them evil to be used as a vessel of dishonor, and to be forever evil! That actually CALVINISM!
Mine says, God chose to use them in their evil, which by His Omnicience, known before they chose, what they WOULD choose.
NOT because they were given NO choice, they also were given free will! BUT because God knew their choice, its known. What is known is known. If I had some preminition, that a car wreck would happen in front of me, knowing it doesnt mean I can or cant change it. It just means I know it will happen.
So in saying this I am not saying God cant change it.
Im saying he will use those he knows wont and use them for purposes, as he did Pharoah.
My point which you are not addressing is NOT God foreordained!
My point is God is Omnicient He didnt make the choice for anyone He did not foreordain people for destruction.
But He knew every choice before it was made.
So therefore, God took vessels for good and used it in his work and plan for those who he knew from His Omnicience would be vessels of honor, because he knew their choice.
Foreordained would suggest God made the choice for them. It wouldnt be choice if there were no choice!
Look, you went way off in your explanation of evil. You won't listen, won't be corrected, so you are a heretic. The explanation of evil you gave is unbiblical and incorrect, and ungodly people make the same kind of argument to blame God for evil. For this reason, because your are so headstrong in refusing to listen while you throw Bible passages at me tells me something is wrong and it's not just your misguided teaching on evil. I'm not going to keep arguing with you. After three years of sitting under real Bible teachers six days a week for an average of 10-15 hours of instruction from experienced and well qualified teachers, most of them ordained ministers, and hours each day in personal studies, I did a full college semester of History of the King James Bible and then two full years of Bible college. I read my Bible cover to cover at least once a year now, plus many random readings or specific search and study readings as I feel led of the Lord for growth and preparation for service. I've seen enough of your stuff to know you have gone off in intellectual pride.....not all bad because I do appreciate your desire to serve the Lord and promote His word....you just have to quit inserting your own ideas, and quit listening to people who tell you things like "Jesus went to Hell for three days" when the Bible does not say that at all. I know there are a few groups, generally Calvinistic and Reformed, who encourage this kind of boastful display of Bible knowledge even if things said do not line up with the Bible. As long as you can flip around and pull up lots of Bible passages as you argue, it's ok to ignore things which contradict your teaching.
I'm not going to keep arguing with you. You have some things to learn, and you seem to think you know it all. I see no point in continuing to argue with you.
It was Satan who said that to be like God was to know good and evil. That was a lie. To be like God is to be without evil. "Knowing" evil is what happened to Adam and Eve after they sinned. When they came to know evil, they had changed to be like devils and not like God.
I stated this already, the Bible is clear on it, Lucifer was perfect when he was created. There was a time when there was no evil in all of creation. God knew no evil because no evil existed. The way you are saying it implies evil existed before creatures chose to do evil. There was no evil until the first evil act. You can say the concept of evil existed before evil existed, but to say the concept of evil is equal to evil is wrong.
The way you are saying it, evil was a real thing with God throughout eternity past and always will be, correct?
It seems like you are promoting a ying/yang philosophy of the concept of good being non-existent if evil does not exist. Am I correct in my understanding of what you are saying? If so, then you are implying evil was present with God before He created anything, and He could have chosen to do evil Himself. This would be right in line with atheistic accusations against God being good.
There was no evil in Adam and Eve before they sinned. Evil is not present in a creature before the creature does evil and then is an evildoer.
it was Satan's trick to entice Eve by saying knowing good and evil would make her like God. It was a lie, it made her like the devil.....and you are using the devil's lie to imply God is like the devil and Eve's sin made her like God....The woman was deceived, lost control, and can't get it back.
They both had a choice so free will had the choice.
To have a choice and choose by free will you have to have more than 1 option. If there wasnt a choice free will to choose wouldnt be free will because there are no other choices.
And last I checked both willful disobedience to God, or by "free will" disobeying, and Pride are both sins, and sin is evil.
Unless you have weights and meadures on sin.
Which I know you wouldnt have.
And I never said God had evil in Him. I did say He is God knows both good and evil, and is the Judge of all. If He did not know evil, He would not make sacrafices available by blood of lambs, then ultamately laying every evil on Jesus bringing us to salvation
Ill ask you a question, During Gods time with Adam and Eve in paradise, Did God KNOW both good and evil?
Jesus is referred to as the 2nd Adam
The 1st Adam succumbed to evil and traded the nature of God for the nature of the beast.
The 2nd Adam overcame evil and traded the nature of the beast for the nature of God
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, look at the story, He tempted them with the boastful pride of life, "you will be like God," and they bit it! Its the same fall as Lucifer, willful disobedience, and the boastful pride of life.
Then they both fell
Then they both knew evil
And I hope, mr saintnow, you didnt say something about woman discussing scripture in a derogatory way, or God will zap the pride out of you!
You are discussing your hysterical feelings, inventing heretical teachings abusing some scriptures. The things you are teaching are used by atheists to blame God for evil, and not scriptural.
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. "
The things you are teaching here are heretical and you are putting yourself in a position of leadership where you do not belong......unless of course you don't care what the Bible says which is typical of women preachers, the same as Eve didn't care what Adam told her about eating the forbidden fruit.
I will concede that God said the man had become like him, knowing good and evil but the way you are putting it implies that evil was always present with God as a choice He could do. And the way you implied Jesus overcame evil implies He had evil in Him simply because He could have chosen to do evil which is heretical. It was not possible for Jesus to choose to do evil because He is God. Adam and Eve knowing good and evil was not the same as God knowing good and evil.....Adam and Eve did evil, God never did and never could. You are Your teaching is heretical and will encourage atheists to be hard hearted blaming God for evil. And once against, it's typical female hysteria and the Bible is against women placing themselves as teachers. If you don't like what the Bible says about women being teachers, you are not even qualified to teach children.......and your heretical statements disqualify you from teaching the Bible to anybody.....
No I never said Evil existed with God, nor implied it. And I didnt imply anything you said.I never said Adam and Eve would have the same knowledge as God. I said they were told they would, and it was a scripture qote.and it couldnt be tske out of context the conversation was short and simple
4And the serpent said to the woman, “You surely shall not die! 5“For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
8And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” 10And he said, “I heard the sound of Thee in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.” 11And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12And the man said, “The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.” 13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” 14And the LORD God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly shall you go,
And dust shall you eat
All the days of your life;
15And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.”
16To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Yet your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
17Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18“Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you shall eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You shall eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”
20Now the man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living. 21And the LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.
There was no evil anywhere in all of creation until creatures chose to do evil. You imply that having the choice proves evil is present, it does not. Evil did not exist until creatures turned to evil. You are promoting a heretical concept to explain something you have difficulty understanding.
Having an explanation for a question like why the game, why is there evil. Is more food for thought and since it is scripture God can work with that
Its actually a pretty honest approach to give someone something they can realistically see around them happening. I think having a logical answer you can effectively show through scripture your more likely to respond to God.
your explanation is wrong, misleading, deceptive, and self-promoting. It is not honest at all. It is not Biblical, it's twisted and illogical. You are adding things to the Bible and ignoring others and promoting your own ideas above the word of God.
you are saying that when Adam and Eve sinned and came to know good and evil, and God said they were now like Him, knowing good and evil, that God is a sinner like Adam because He knows good and evil. I could use your reasonings as an atheist and you have nothing to contradict me because I'm using your own words.
If you will pipe down and listen for a minute or three, I will give you the solid Biblical teaching of the origin and presence of evil by which you can answer atheists and put them into confusion if they resist the truth.
He went to hell for 3 days and walked out with the keys!
And a million scriptures say
" It pleased the Lord to lay the iniquities of the world apon him! He carried our iniquities."
In the Garden of Gethsemane, He overcame the temptation of Satan 3 times. So how dont you think He, Jesus, Overcame evil, right there before his death He struggled and was tempted by evil himself the Devil remember get behind me satan!
Jesus did not overcome evil. He is God. You are inserting words and meanings that are not in the Bible, and building doctrines on your own ideas......unscriptural ideas. To say Jesus "overcame the temptation of Satan" implies He could have fallen to sin but overcame by His efforts rather than the reality of it not being possible for Him to sin.
I'm trying to figure our your heretical sect, and I'm not far from guessing what it is. It's either "Way", Seventh Day Adventist, or some kind of mix of Calvinism.....but I'm leaning toward the first two guesses.
Jesus did not walk in a sin nature, it was not possible for him to sin. That's where you are going wrong, and you are twisting things and adding words and doctrines that are not Biblical and will be turned around against your arguing.
As the Son of God, Jesus had no sin nature. Using a body did not mean He had a sin nature. His body was sinless because He never sinned. His blood was sinless, the life of the flesh is in the Blood. These things are easily supported by scripture, your self-serving explanation saying Jesus walked in a sin nature is only promoting your own intellect and not logically explaining the faith of God.
Jesus did not take up our fallen nature.......that kind of talk is off the wall and not scriptural.
Nothing in the Bible says Jesus walked in a sin nature as you say He did.
Nothing in the Bible says He took up our fallen nature.
Nothing in the Bible says that evil was present before the choice to do evil was made.
You are inventing things that are unbiblical trying to explain things you do not understand. You can't explain the reality of evil, pain, suffering by inventing non-Biblical concepts. All you are doing is detracting from God's glory in your self-promoting speech. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you are teaching heresies and apparently have not learned from God according to His word, not been taught well, or have been misguided by false teachers and I know it's a sect, not yet sure which but you seem to be teaching a works based salvation....haven't pinned it down yet because you are using too many vaguely defined words and concepts.
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Alright dude, look up the scriptures and read it all in context.
So look up Jesus in Wilderness before His public ministry
and he rebuked Peter for tempting Him in Gethsemane
tell me mr how Jesus didnt have to overcome evil
Matthew 4 ►
New American Standard Bible
The Temptation of Jesus
1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. 3And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”
5Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,
6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU’;
and
‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”
7Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”
8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” 10Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” 11Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.
you are inserting "overcame" and implying meanings and doctrines which are not there......and using a perverted version of the Bible. No wonder you think you can make up your own words with your own meanings and teach them as doctrine, you don't even know the difference between the word of God and fraudulent imposter versions.
NASB is a perversion of the Bible, it is not God's word. You need to get rid of those fake Bibles......I guess since you think fake Bibles can be God's word, it's ok for you to insert concepts and words like "evil was always present as a choice, and Jesus could have chosen to do evil".
Ok here it is in King James or would you like it in Latin or Ancient Text? What is wrong with you. Get past it!
King James Bible
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
(Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:22-36)
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
God's Word is Living and Active
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Jesus the Great High Priest
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
If there were a God that created everything, Then God would have created the evil nature of Angels and mankind, and animal kinds that cause great suffering to other animals and men. God would not have had to made any of these creatures with an evil nature. It is possible to have free will without an evil nature. So God created the evil nature in all.
God did know what was going to happen up till the end, and he did it anyway. If there is a God, questioning it, to find a logical answer is as irrational as discussing in detail the household budget to a 4 year old. Its not exactly comprehensible, because of prospective and understanding we have would be limited.
God did know, the writings of the Apostles were clear, God knew that Judas would be the betrayer and for 30 coins, He new the Jews would reject Him (Jesus) And Jesus showed the same, Omniscience. He told Peter he (Peter) would also be crucified, and Jesus new Lazarus would be dead on His arrival. Jesus claimed there was 1 thing the Father God knew, but He did not know, and thats the day or hour of the end. See link.
When God created man, he gave them an image like his own. And free will set man apart from all animals.
The elemeant of complicated thought, and choice of will.
When God designed people He would 1 day fill His Heavens with, He wanted a people that chose Him. People who loved Him by choice.
So maybe this all seems like an odd game for God to play, but he knows our choices of will also. And he makes vessels of honor and also vessels of dishonor.
My thought is, God makes the choice of vessels of dishonor, because he already knows in advance their choice of will..
So even though we have free wiill of choice, going through life and making that "choice" is the way of Gods design because choice is only way to be children of the Father, there is purpose for the walk of life. And one reason for those purposes is a matter of distinction.
The comtrast between good and evil, and the contrast between the children of God and those who are not.
We chose the knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve ate from that tree, before then theybonly new God, and good.
There is no choice without the presence of evil. So evil must exist in order for free wiil to have the element of choice.
Abraham’s descendants, -: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is a word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25As He says also in Hosea,
“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,’
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.’”
26“AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ‘YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,’
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.”
27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; 28FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD UPON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.” 29And just as Isaiah foretold,
“EXCEPT THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY,
WE WOULD HAVE BECOME AS SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH.”
30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33just as it is written,
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
God created all things for one simple reason, and that is His own pleasure. He did not create this earth to know who does and does not love him, He created the Earth and all things including people for His own pleasure and nothing else.
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (Rev. 4:11)
God created this universe and the reason for the bad things is because the devil is testing your faith in him. He is making you stronger. And one day everything will be perfect.
So why would God need make things wrong before making them perfect? If you want perfection and you know what the future holds for what you create then why would you create it wrong? In the religious texts God keeps doing the human things making wrong and trying to fix them. Which makes perfect sense if man created God and didn't truly understand how it would be done by a divine being.
God has no influence over the world but the people who invented them have created a stir in the human population. I only point out to those who have been deceived by the creators of Gods that Gods cannot exist in the fashion that they were created.
If God has no influence on the world, why can't you stop talking about Him? Are you trying to get your own blood off your head and frustrated for not being able to wash it away?
For having no influence in your world, God sure is costing you a lot your time as you argue He is not there.
I would argue that weak minded would be the person who can't accept life for what it is and must rely on an imaginary being to make them feel that they are loved, protected and immortal. Us stronger minded folks accept life for what it is and deal with it.
find somebody else to argue with, Bob. No sinner has the right to exist outside of Hell, and I don't like watching you go kicking and screaming into the fire. Take out your hatred against God on somebody else, I guess you did a good job of getting your wife to go to Hell the same as you.
It is the fault of those people who wish to claim superiority over me by using the threat of their imaginary God. If the Muslims in the Middle Eastern countries weren't murdering people based on the God they follow (same one as you do). I would not need to be aware of peoples imaginary Gods. So Yes, it is other people's fault that I can't ignore Gods.
Saintnow, you don't get it, I am not at all miserable or unhappy. I am not hoping to escape anything in death. Death is just a natural part of life that I must accept. I know that I will continue to enjoy the life I live until I no longer live. Once I am dead I won't care about anything as my brain function will stop and there will be an eternal nothingness I would not call that escape just reality.
Hey, don't take life too seriously NOBODY, gets out alive
I'm not sure what you are talking about, but if it makes you feel better it is fine with me. Unlike you I am happy with life and who I am. I don't have to live to some Bronze Age morality and please some imaginary entity that holds me accountable for the behavior of my ancestors. Not that the thought of that is not CRAZY enough but then I have to ask forgiveness from a demigod/son/self in order to save yourself from eternal torment. Whew what a life, LOL
So how come you are not getting off the hook? Why don't you let yourself off the hook? Who has you on the hook? How did the hook get there? Can't you get that hook out?
The hook is your sin, and it's woven throughout your very genetic material. It's pulling you down in death to Hell and God is trying to get you to realize Jesus is knocking at your door trying to get you to open the door and let Him in so He can remove the hook and set you free.
There is no hook from sins. There is no changing genetic material to avoid death. The only thing that is possible in the discussion of mortality is to convince yourself that you are still somehow going to live after you are dead. This is not a bad strategy since once you are dead there is no way for you to know that you are not going to be alive. For many of us our knowledge of biology in the real world doesn't allow us to believe in things like this. You are lucky that you have an alternate reality that allows you to believe in immortality.
Actually, I deserve no credit for making you look foolish, you do it all by yourself and I'm just pointing out the obvious foolishness in the stuff you say.
The good thing is that in the game of life that person who lives life happily each day and shares the love of many friends and family is the winner. Those who spend their lives trying to live to an impossible standard, jealous of the happiness that others have suffer by their actions. These people lose hours, days, weeks, some even years of time that they can never reclaim to be happy. I say this with sincerity, I can only hope that you are happier in real life than you are here as the curmudgeon condemning and blocking everyone who doesn't agree with you. I enjoy our banter regardless, I wish you the best my freind.
you can't have evidence of a god because gods do not exist in the naturalistic world. that however does not mean you cannot see the results of his actions.
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If you have a glass of water and you can only see the water and the glass, if someone you cannot see stomps their foot, the water will move. all you can know is that the water was effected by a vibration. you cannot know that there was a sentient being behind that vibration. in that way, god effects the world in many unseen ways, and there would be no evidence to tie those interactions back to him.
what sort of things would you claim that Gods are responsible for influencing in the world? Why would it be impossible to tie these influences to Gods.
if a god is all powerful then in essence could not all things be as a result of him?
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I'm tired so I may be thinking or speaking backwards, and if this point is too easily refuted I reserve the right to renege. but if he has the power to change all things and or effect them (As "god" the notion is omnipotent) then would not all things be capable to happen by his hand, and if all events could happen by his hand, they would be indistinguishable from events that did not?
The problem I would have with your train of thought is that as it is written, and told to the masses, God has a plan! According to the written word God wishes to destroy evil. Yet if we look at the world full of evil God's presence seems to be absent. God wishes to be loved and worshiped according to the texts yet God remains unseen to those who believe and unknown to the remainder. God wishes to be obeyed according to the texts yet God does nothing to correct the disobedience. There is only an empty threat of punishment after life is over, if you are a Christian. If This God was to use his hand to shape the events of the world then how would they be different? Would there still be evil corrupt people living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the helpless and weak? Would there be constant war? Would innocent children starve to death or die painful deaths by disease like cancer? Would this God be considered cruel for creating the atmosphere which allows these events. I would rather believe that it is because there is a lack of God that nature is what it is and we just see the result for better or worse. There is no oversight or purpose, just daily random events strung together.
you're touching on the problem of evil, correct? to which I say that the end goal regardless of what is happening now is the destruction of evil. I believe that is a path we're all set on, religious or not, sadly though, with morality as relative, misguided humans believe that the ends will justify the means. however perhaps god too is like this, with evil not to us what it is to god. perhaps the only way to save the world, is to let it come to the cusp of disaster. so that all of human kind will see what evil can do, and reject it forever. this may be what Revelation is about.
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this is all just...theory?...I personally hold god in an agnostic more cultural sense. so, it's more likely that I win an argument by disproving his non existence. the problem of evil is a common objection to the notion of god. and usually, most sadly I can't provide more than the bullshit "God works in mysterious ways" but I ask you, if you had to see humanity suffer for a millennium but then they would prosper till the universe fades into oblivion, would you make that call? if the alternative was either perpetual suffering or prosperity and then a fall? as the prosperity in the beginning would likely bring countless more lives into the world, I'd think it's best to suffer now, with the hope for a brighter future.
My theory on evil is this: in all predatory species what we would consider evil behavior exists it is part of the predatory behavior. Humans are no exception to the rule. Some people have little to no empathy and will do only what pleases them and those close to them. These are the evil they will always exist.
To answer your question If I could be the God with a plan I would only cause suffering to those who caused others to suffer. If you lived your life without causing suffering to anyone else your life would be without suffering. I would not find any way to rationalize thousands of years of suffering then a lack of as fair to those who suffered needlessly innocent of wrong doing.
"""" but I have challenged their God to battles and none...........""""/////
Let me see how I can say this without hurting your feelings... Hmm, lets see................... Ok, let me put it this way. When a challenge is not accepted from a challenger, it is because A) The challenger is too powerful, or B) The challenger is insignificant.
Well now, supposedly s/he made everything, watches everything, intercedes sometimes (but not always), and actively judges us. If all that is true then God's fingerprints are all over this crime scene. We are rife with misery and conflict, and the true believers suffer cancers and wars just like the non-believers. We're told to just believe and endure, because the Lord works in mysterious ways, but that answer is just a copout to say don't pay attention to any of God's bad events just the good ones.
Look, I'm not here to tell you there is no God or to reject what good religions does in this world. But I am here to tell you when you see a hurricane indiscriminately ravage a coastline with millions of people and you then say that's the hand of God punishing people for sins of society, that indeed that answer from you is sick. You are either defending a God who hurt good believers just the same as the bad or you are hiding behind ignorance. You are taking the Old Testament smite everyone God to be the same as the loving God of Jesus. And you know, maybe you're right. But that means you're worshiping an ogre.
A God who can influence the world needs to do a hell of a lot of a better job of influencing it than we have seen to date.
Every time a bus full of Church goers crashes or a Church is destroyed by lighting or a bad storm it's clear that God was not protecting his flock. I think you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for your comment.
I would take a slightly different stance from others on this discussion. The evidence that we currently have suggests that "God is Imaginary", however in the past two millennium, countries have been created, cultures and civilizations destroyed in the name of "God". The global politics and the current scenario of the world would have been completely different, if "God" didn't have any influence over the world.
But the above argument has a serious flaw, if something doesn't exist, how can it have any influence over the world? The answer is, it doesn't, but the people who believe in it's existence are present in large numbers, and like any group of ignorant people, they do have an influence on the world.
"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks"
Thank you For insight that I had over looked. So very true God in the minds of the believers has had a great deal of influence over the centuries on our world
You are blind to history if you do not know that Christianity brought light to this once dark world.
Before Christ was born, our world was living in constant war. Christianity brought force the radical notion of loving our enemies and turning the other cheek.
America was born from our Christian heritage, a thirst for religious freedom, and has been the biggest force for peace on this planet.
Now along came the bigoted man who rebels from any notion of personal responsibility and moral values. His humanist God says we are all just animals living by our base instincts programmed from billions and billions and billions of years of random mutation creating our complex DNA.
It is the Godless man and war like religions teaching their followers to kill their enemies, that has done the most damage to this world.
You are blind to history if you do not know that Christianity brought light to this once dark world.
That isn't an argument.
Before Christ was born, our world was living in constant war. Christianity brought force the radical notion of loving our enemies and turning the other cheek.
More people have died from wars after the birth of Christ than those who died before.
America was born from our Christian heritage, a thirst for religious freedom, and has been the biggest force for peace on this planet.
Actually, America was born from Post-Enlightenment Liberalism. That's why our Constitution is full of homages to the likes of Hume and Locke, and only one mention of God (and that's in the date).
Now along came the bigoted man who rebels from any notion of personal responsibility and moral values.
Almost nobody actually believes that. The thing is, because you are bigoted, you think that anyone who disagrees with you does believe that.
His humanist God says we are all just animals living by our base instincts programmed from billions and billions and billions of years of random mutation creating our complex DNA.
Again, almost nobody says that. We say that we are are animals (that's an objective fact, we belong to kingdom Animalia) and that we do have base instincts programmed, be it from evolution or creation (I won't call it intelligent because our design isn't all that intelligent for the most part). But leaving it there omits our omniscience and its importance.
It is the Godless man and war like religions teaching their followers to kill their enemies, that has done the most damage to this world.
The thing is, Christianity is one of those war like religions, both in teachings and in historic fact. There's nothing wrong with admitting that and recognizing it has, in most parts of the world, evolved (ha) beyond that. It lends your views, and Christianity, far more legitimacy then when you try to white-wash Christian history and essentially claim that the majority of Christians throughout European history simply weren't Christian at all.
I believe your mistaken I know you did not want my opinion but if i may tell you about GOD not the mutated version of man ....please may I at least present you the truth....not watered down comprised half breed Satan worship....thank you
YOU, FromWithin, are "blind to history. Rarely has Christianity "turned the other cheek".
You are correct that America was "born with a thirst for religious freedom". The majority of those early settlers came "looking for religious freedom ... that not forced on them by the "in charge Christians" who levied a tax "for the church" on them, and threw them in "debtors prison" for non-paymrnt, even if they did not have enough to feed their family! Others came here because they did not believe in the particular church that was taxing them.....and in some cases "beheading them" as non-believers!. Yes, this was a "Christian Practice"! I think you could say that these Christians were "animals".
Fleeing religious persecution was the reason for coming here, and today we are locked in a battle with radical Christians to prevent a recurrence! (As the Constitution was written to prevent!)
What a bigoted liar and fool you truly are. So tell me, how does one get so much hate for a Christian faith that spends most of their time in this nation helping the needy.
All you ever do is bring up so called past atrocites that no one can verify, by all people, of all faiths, of all Godless people as well.... There was evil every where yet bigots like you single out false Christians who killed in God's name. They were phony's you mindless bigot. God tells us in the Bible who true Christians are. He said you would know them by their love!
I would like to try to say what you are saying in words that won't offend:
Christianity has had a positive effect on the world.
I agree. So has Hinduism. So has Confucianism. So has Rastafarianism. So has Islam.
You may argue that Islam is a bunch of terrorists, but do I need to remind you about the 6 million Jews killed by Hitler? This should not define Christians, just as terrorism should not define Islam.
The establishment of Christianity and Islam just allowed people to connect spiritually and develop common morals to help society. Christians preach "care for your neighbor", and Islam requires monetary and physical charity by all those who can afford it. This has helped a lot of people!!!
The reason people get upset with you, FromWithin, is because you say true Christians are pure and good but all Muslims are terrorists. You must see things from both sides.
You are being VERY DECEPTIVE once again. This is why I insult people who CONSTANTLY KEEP DECEIVING PEOPLE! Do you do it on purpose or are you that ignorant to my opinions and posts. Stop deceiving people if you do not know what you are talking about.
I have NEVER IN MY LIFE said that all Muslims are terrorists! I never said Christians are pure. I said they will have love for others, not hate like Hitler or the KKK, etc.
You also deceived people by using a false analogy of Hitler and Terrorists. Hitler NEVER killed Jews by using Christianity as his excuse for doing so. Hilter calling himself a Christian had absolutely nothing to do with the holocaust!
The terrorists on the other hand use their Islamic religion as their excuse and reasoning for killing Christians or anyone else they deem at odds with their religion. Terrorism is completely about their religion.
What I have said many times is that moderate Muslims never go to the streets to protest against radical islamic terrorism, that they call a distortion of their religion. Why is that?
Okay, I understand, sorry for speaking for you. I just want to say that is what it comes across as.
Also, concerning your argument What I have said many times is that moderate Muslims never go to the streets to protest against radical islamic terrorism, that they call a distortion of their religion. Why is that?
Fox news doesn't talk about it, but they do. So you have to admit, it is a lie.
I keep hearing people on this site spewing that same left wing deception and rhetoric......
I will do what they always do and ask for the video! Where are the videos of Muslims protesting in the streets of America aganst these barbaric terrorist acts.
If you had any proof of your claim, you would be posting the sites giving me the links to these videos. These protests would be all over the network news were it true! The Left would love nothing more than to prove their narrative of so called outrage from moderates. Where are the videos of mass protests? Fox news is the honest news network telling the truth of how little moderate Muslims in America speak out. The vast majority of Liberal propaganda news networks are pushing the lies that moderate Muslims do protest in large numbers.
I'm not talking about some Moderate Muslims being intervued and speaking out. I'm talking about mass protests in the streets to send a clear message to these islamic terrorists of how so called moderate Muslims clearly oppose what the terrorists are doing.
I keep hearing people on this site spewing that same left wing deception and rhetoric......
I will do what they always do and ask for the video! Where are the videos of Muslims protesting in the streets of America aganst these barbaric terrorist acts.
We have provided dozens for you. In the past, you have actually (and this isn't a joke) denied they are real because you didn't see them on FOX.
If you had any proof of your claim, you would be posting the sites giving me the links to these videos. These protests would be all over the network news were it true!
We have and they are.
The Left would love nothing more than to prove their narrative of so called outrage from moderates.
We already have.
Where are the videos of mass protests?
You have been provided with dozens of them.
Fox news is the honest news network telling the truth of how little moderate Muslims in America speak out
And there it is! Who cares if the evidence exists, you will only beleive it if it is on FOX. You realize that one of the two primary owners is a Saudi Muslim, right?
he vast majority of Liberal propaganda news networks are pushing the lies that moderate Muslims do protest in large numbers.
They do and we have provided you with the proof.
I'm not talking about some Moderate Muslims being intervued and speaking out. I'm talking about mass protests in the streets to send a clear message to these islamic terrorists of how so called moderate Muslims clearly oppose what the terrorists are doing.
This is correct. Other than an occasional story, and a few talking points public individuals, there is very little noise from Muslims globally and locally.
If your whole culture has a stain as big as radical Islam, and also much thats considered moderate Islam, are in direct opposition to American values of equality and tolerance.
There are some Muslims that make statements denouncing terrorism and radicalization.
But like statements made by the Liberal left, like statements heard from Obama, its a weak approach to water down the extremist Islamic movement by pussyfooting the absolute condemnation of the evil people in this evil movement by spewing politically correct terms is not meeting the evil with degree of opposition it deserves. Politically correct statements are a wimpy approach in separating it from the religion Islam.
Its weak, and insincere!
I think they should take a stand and have a more activist approach.
One consideration is a presence for their influence on others. By taking their peaceful position to a place of notable presence and frequency, inorder to balance the influence of radicalization that we have seen grow in our own country through the recruitment and even fantasy of homegrown terrorists that view Islam with Jihad as a movement they support.
Also on educating public on the difference, not to convert, but to simply partner with us, and draw clear lines of distinction.
So a strong public presence is very important for Muslim youth, and any converts that are homegrown.
We have many Muslims in the US, radical or peaceful, good luck knowing the difference.
So we ask for them to join us against their counterparts in exposing radical Islam, and setting themselves apart in a way that shows severance and condemnation and judgement toward their radical counterparts.
If a defector from England came here during the revolutuonary war, wouldn't he have to take up our fight, and show his loyalty?
Muslims absolutely need to be loud and denounce their counterparts! They absolutely should NOT ask to build a mosque on or anywhere near our 9/11 memorial site!
And their religion, even non-radical, believes in death or conversion of infidels, and silence isnt acceptable! Not condeming it as evil, declaring the benefit of Islam will be withheld because radical Islam is evil. Thats different then coming out and saying Im sorry for these evil acts, its not our Islam.
They are not "evil acts" they are "evil people" who "Allah" should hate! If Muslims believe this, then they should say it! And if they dont say it, then they feel it is justified no matter how sad it makes them! And being sad is not good at all, and it certainly isnt "good enough"
Thats what I want to hear. Because 1 statement sets apart, the other just makes an appearance.
Even if a Muslim doesn't participate in jihad, the question I want emphatically answered is there any belief in you whether you participate or not that excuses this evil, as a principal of faith that Islam justifies.
many feel the others have command from the Koran.
By silence they dont separate themselves, and again, I want clear and loud to know the Muslim who is peaceful, actually believes their counterparts are condemned by Islam and Condemned by Allah!!!
They need to identify with us in opposition. And they should want to!
You speak the truth to a bunch of liars and deceivers on ths site. They will simply deny the facts as they always do. I ban those who have proven to be complete deceptive liars.
They are a total waste of time. It's nice to know there are a few people with common sense honesty on this site.
Ha, coming from the guy who doesn't recognize the existence of anything not reported on FOX. Oddly enough, that's "denying the facts", something you are complaining about here.
You demonstrably lied and deceived in multiple posts recently. How do you justify that, especially when you are complaining about it here?
Oh sorry, I had the audacity to respond to a comment you made. I must be a stalker, you are such a poor helpless victim :P
This is correct. Other than an occasional story, and a few talking points public individuals, there is very little noise from Muslims globally and locally.
That simply isn't true. Just because you haven't bothered paying attention, doesn't mean people are silent.
If your whole culture has a stain as big as radical Islam, and also much thats considered moderate Islam, are in direct opposition to American values of equality and tolerance.
You are correct about radical Islam, but American Muslims are mostly affluent, politically active, and assimilated. This generalization serves no productive purpose.
There are some Muslims that make statements denouncing terrorism and radicalization.
But like statements made by the Liberal left, like statements heard from Obama, its a weak approach to water down the extremist Islamic movement by pussyfooting the absolute condemnation of the evil people in this evil movement by spewing politically correct terms is not meeting the evil with degree of opposition it deserves.
So you are complaining that they aren't wording it the way you would. Statements, one way or another, won't have an impact. Are you under the mistaken impression that if you sound macho enough, IS will back down?
I think they should take a stand and have a more activist approach.
You mean like Obama dropping so many bombs on them that we are having difficulties maintaining our supply?
One consideration is a presence for their influence on others. By taking their peaceful position to a place of notable presence and frequency, inorder to balance the influence of radicalization that we have seen grow in our own country through the recruitment and even fantasy of homegrown terrorists that view Islam with Jihad as a movement they support.
That "growth" is incredibly small. Still, what is this "place of notable presence and frequency" that you are talking about?
Also on educating public on the difference, not to convert, but to simply partner with us, and draw clear lines of distinction.
And how would that look?
So we ask for them to join us against their counterparts in exposing radical Islam, and setting themselves apart in a way that shows severance and condemnation and judgement toward their radical counterparts.
So long as we as a country hold up people like Donald Trump and legitimize the demonization that have been occurring, we actively decrease the chances of this happening. Counter Terrorism experts have been telling us that for YEARS, as have police departments. If you dehumanize a group of people and paint them out to be evil, then obviously they will be less likely to cooperate.
If a defector from England came here during the revolutuonary war, wouldn't he have to take up our fight, and show his loyalty?
Considering less than half of the colonials fought in or supported the Revolutionary War, I'd think the answer is an obvious no.
Muslims absolutely need to be loud and denounce their counterparts! They absolutely should NOT ask to build a mosque on or anywhere near our 9/11 memorial site!
Now this is simply stupid. They aren't asking to build a mosque on the site of the towers, and the community center is blocks away at an old Burlington Coat Factory. That outrage is pathetic.
And their religion, even non-radical, believes in death or conversion of infidels, and silence isnt acceptable
Yes, and Christ promised to come and kill all the non-believers, and Jews are supposed to murder homosexuals, etc. Enough of this shtick. Nobody but the radicals of each religion support the ridiculous parts of their religion. Now Islam does have more ridiculous parts than the others, and they are more inherently dangerous. But trying to link moderates to those lines is just as ridiculous as linking Christians and Jews to Leviticus.
They are not "evil acts" they are "evil people" who "Allah" should hate! If Muslims believe this, then they should say it!
They do. Are you truly so convinced that you have done sufficient research to say that Muslims aren't saying that? Or is this another "Nobody has brought it to my attention, so it can't be happening" kinda thing.
Thats what I want to hear. Because 1 statement sets apart, the other just makes an appearance.
Both "sets apart".
Even if a Muslim doesn't participate in jihad, the question I want emphatically answered is there any belief in you whether you participate or not that excuses this evil, as a principal of faith that Islam justifies.
Considering how "Jihad" means "spiritual struggle", I'm willing to bet most Muslims have participated in some form of Jihad. If you are referring to violent terrorism, then those questions have been asked, and the answers seem pretty expected (High support in more radical countries).
many feel the others have command from the Koran.
By silence they dont separate themselves, and again, I want clear and loud to know the Muslim who is peaceful, actually believes their counterparts are condemned by Islam and Condemned by Allah!!!
This is also stupid. Just because someone who is a member of a group you are part of commits a crime, does not mean you are responsible for speaking out against it. That's simply absurd.
They need to identify with us in opposition. And they should want to!
Not when they are being demonized by the right they shouldn't.
Me -This is correct. Other than an occasional story, and a few talking points public individuals, there is very little noise from Muslims globally and locally.
You - That simply isn't true. Just because you haven't bothered paying attention, doesn't mean people are silent.
Me - just stating something you think, it isnt convincing!
Do you have some clear examples of consistent and strong stance of opposition from the Muslim Community, other than the Muslims that are talking points contributors?
Me - If your whole culture has a stain as big as radical Islam, and also much thats considered moderate Islam, are in direct opposition to American values of equality and tolerance.
You - You are correct about radical Islam, but American Muslims are mostly affluent, politically active, and assimilated. This generalization serves no productive purpose
My point is, its their job to defend Islam and set themselves apart.
Although we have some part to play in "tolerance" they also have a part.
Radical Islam is a big part of their Religion and Culture!
Most Muslim Countries have radical laws with a cultural environments that are unjust and severe, often in war torn dangerous areas.
Taking them from that, then putting them in civilized countries more often than not, does nothing to change them. Especially if they are near adulthood before migrating.
Censored their whole lives from exposure to of the outside world.
In essence filtering out civilization, and feeding their mind and concience the cutural extremes they live in.
Validating views of inequality and justifying judgement and intolerance for others of different religions and cultures.
And they can be very inappropriate toward others particuarly women in civilized societies.
Sharia law can be viewed moderately, but has extreme consequences, as we have seen even here in the US, for disappointing a husband or a father. A few case examples. 1 Muslim man started a tv station,with intention of educating American people on their good nature. But killed his wife. He was abusive, she was going to take a different direction, and he did what he knew. And even argued his bizzar reasoning in our courts.
You have a few men who killed daughters for the "new" lifestyle that is stark cultural differences that clash, even if a daughters behaviors are commendable.
Muslims need to counterbalance the cultural stains contributef by their counterparts. And I am saying this, not because of random acts or occurrances here and there. So lets not pretend its our intolerance thats the problem. Its unreasonable to think we are not effected, and its not reasonable to think the struggle doesnt rightly belong in the hands of the "peaceful Muslim.
It isnt our fault, nor our responsibility to excuse nor defend Islam. The responsibilty to excuse and defend Islam in our eyes and in the eyes of the world, belongs to the Muslim. Its their religion to redefine and its their stain to erase,
Regardless if you blame the media or not, the most prominant display of Muslims and Islam have a blatent disregard for life, are ntolerant of others, also with inappropriate responses from men toward non Muslim women regarding some of the freedoms we have in the way we dress and live, which is not compatable with severe countries, and even in more moderate Muslim countries.
Its a culture that is abusive to women and children.
And even the women who are breaking out in the culture, they are in the stone ages compared to our standards of humanity, justice and equality.
And it has been that way for most of its history. It has threatened non Muslims by extreme violence and devastation to their own and all You have many Muslims here that emmigrated from more tolerant countries. But the problems are big enough that we arent entirely unreasonable for expecting more assurances from them.
Their religious choice is Muslim. And thats fine, they are fee to exercise their religion. But it comes with a set of problems that they need to overcome. And those problems are a thorn in their side, and the thorns are not ours, the thorns are theirs.
Its about being reasonable. Its reasonable to take responsibility for your culture when your culture has damaged the credibility and integrity of your religion. If you want to be free to exercise, and be a part of your religion, dont have unreasonable expectations of others. And do whatever you need to to set yourself apart. And dont be shockef, it should be expected.
What I have said many times is that moderate Muslims never go to the streets to protest against radical islamic terrorism, that they call a distortion of their religion. Why is that?
They do. We've provided evidence of it for you dozens of times.
I'm sorry but this is not truth you are slightly off not wrong just off ...if you areiinterested I have something to tell you that will change your opinion I'm not trying to offend you or hurt your pride I have operated as a member of the war machine for many years ...but I see clearly now I was lost but now I'm found won't you let me help you....thank you for any consideration
If there is a God, then there are only two options: either God has created earth and totally been uninvolved what so ever, OR God is a God that likes to see suffering (or is indifferent to it). Since I'm not atheist, I really believe the first option - God is not mean, but simply left us to work it out all alone with no help except for possibly a few profits at certain points in history.
CHRISTIANS ARE JUEVENILE. They act like the other major religions (except for maybe Judaism) has absolutely no pertinence what so ever. Religions that existed even before the Jews !
Yes. The concept of several "gods" has an effect on many different people in the world, in many different ways. Most, with the exception of the Judean Christian God, and the Islamic God .... which is the same ... only the man generated rules differ....are peaceful.
MY "god" is angry right now, and "she" will make us pay! She is called "Mother Nature".
With all kindness I know your misled and your letting this world deceive you ...these people who call themselves Christians are devils in church pews ....this I can prove these people participate in satanic rituals right in church....they have no idea who GOD is or how amazing he is or how this world is was or will be
I do not see how even the biggest believer in god can claim his influence is discernible to even the slightest degree.
By all appearances the world seems to be bereft of any divine influence whatsoever.
Rather, things seem to go along with what Richard Dawkins says...that the world is exactly as it should be were if governed by nothing but blind chance and purely natural processes and Dynamics of evolution. With no creator and no hint of one.
Or maybe there is a believer reading this who can kindly tell us how this is not the case?
How true, our world has no divine justice people of all or no religious beliefs suffer the good and bad in life. there has not been any divine intervention in world politics. Nothing
Please recognize that no great mental effort is required to understand the origination & continuance of God belief & Religiosity.
ALL stem from fears of the unknown by primitive people, largely ignorant of the facts of LIFE.
These early Beliefs are kept afloat by leaders who prey on the naivety of those people unable to exercise the common sense of reality -
& there seems to be plenty of them!
To any normal-thinking person, it’s been obvious for a very long time that ALL religions are pure HUMBUG - their variants causing trouble a-plenty across the globe.
Religious leaders just cannot be so thick as to believe in the existence of an un-contactable GOD! - - - A few pious words seem to be all that is needed for them to get through life without the soiling of hands. IMPOSTORS ALL!
High time Humanity woke up & dumped all of this ancient disabling claptrap - Gods are, quite definitely - surplus to requirements!
Could I please invite you to peruse 3 essays on this subject. They can be found at the address below - My view of Life, having sampled over 95 years of it - not without bother.
If one needs a ‘religion’ to tackle the problems of life, what’s wrong with plain & pure COMMON SENSE - the use of REASON & LOGIC - Nature’s way of guiding us to the very end. .
ALL of us MUST & DO use it - 24 / 7 / 52 weeks per year!
Natural evolution has produced the ethical values we use today,
& please, never forget that the often inspiring & lovely music generated by this God-belief is accompanied by lyrics - very appropriate to the tune - but ALL composed by Humans.
Surely a TRUE GOD does not need or want to be patronised so severely!
You are mistaken I mean this in kindness ....please tell me how it is you come to believe these lies ....let me help you at least see the truth before you deny it ...
If it is okay with you I would love to offer the very strong evidence that I have in these categories. First I must start with your God, You haven't identified which God we are to determine the existence of. All are pretty much the same proofs. Can you offer any evidence that the other Gods don't exist? It is a rhetorical question since truth is that anyone can claim that something exists but if it doesn't there is no way to prove that scientifically. What we can do is offer evidence for or against. Example: I can claim that leprechauns exist. As with Gods the evidence against out weighs any evidence for. So which God are we showing all of the evidence against for. If it is Yahweh I like to start with the conflicting nature of this God. If this God is omniscient then Genesis 6:6 makes no sense. You can't have the power to create what you want yet knowing the future create something disappointing.
Proof of evolution is in the crust of our planet. In the areas of the earths crust where due to pressure and time sedimentary rock is formed we know factually that there are no complex living structures at the bottom (oldest parts). Factually speaking from what is found in the sedimentary layers of the earth is that as time went on living things became more complex. This part of evolution is not theory. The results are the same all over the world and repeatable consistently which makes it factually correct.
I hear what you are saying but can you document an estimated time line with proof that backs up evolutuon as factual sciebl tific data, and not theory.
Theory is a guess. You come up with a hypotheses, a guess that sounds right, then scientists go to work to prove it.
But in all their digging there has never been proof.
Creation is more believable
We have evolution where life evolves, in it they teach new species evolve from old species.
There is also adaptation.
Adaptation is not the same as evolving and becoming a different species.
Like man from apes.
So some turned into man and some didnt?
It is likely that men had thicker skulls and walked in more of a bent position. From living in caves, creating tools and and adapting is a progressive change of bodies changing as environment changes. It wouldnt happen suddenly. Like if I was lost in a cold snowy mountain, I wont start growing ear hair. But conditions over 100's of years is adaptation. And that is proven and not theory.
But evolving from apes is theory not proven, and there is no dacts to show any species changed to a different species.
When you argue against an idea that doesn't hold true to what your opponent says you are doing a disservice to yourself and your opposition by arguing against a strawman.
You do not know the definition of what a theory is in the sciences, nor do you seem to have any working knowledge of the theory of evolution. lets start with a definition of the word theory in the sciences;
scientific theory
Examples
noun
1.
a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation:
the scientific theory of evolution.
Here is a good resource for understanding evolution, starting again with what a theory is in the sciences, hint, your definition isn't the one the sciences use.
If you want to refute rocket science but use the star wars definition of the word 'force' you are the one who is refusing to understand the principles you are trying to refute. Unless you do not move on from your misrepresntation of what a scientific theory is you only show how unreasonable you are being on the subject of evolution.
Surely someone who doesn't even use scientific terms properly is not to be trusted to understand the sciences well enough to 'disprove' any science.
I am not scientific so basic knowledge of science paraprased tis that theory is a guess
If a theory is any good, it
explains a law.
Simple Definition of theory
: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events
: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true
: the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject
In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations.2 It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.
But it is still a guess based on observations.
You have yo take each principle observed, and queztion.
Am I correct, are the still saying evolved from apes?
What event have we observed that changed species?
And not an example of adaptation.
Like you may have something that was more of a water creature that adapted to have qualities for land survival. But it was adaptation.
Apes are a species
Man is a species
To the best of my knowledge, you cannot take a male ape sperm and a female human egg and make an offspring.
But you can take a huskie and a german shepherd and make an offspring because it is the same species
I am not scientific so basic knowledge of science paraprased tis that theory is a guess
If a theory is any good, it
explains a law.
In no way does your minsunderstanding of what the scientific use of the word theory negate how the word is used in the realm of science. Again if you want to discuss rocket science but keep using the star wars defitnion of the word 'force' what are you really adding to the conversation or in this case, the argument against evolution?
Certainly not anything of value. An argument from this frame of reference is doomed from the start if the very basic concepts of the idea are misunderstood or obscured.
If I wanted to get information about your religion, should I go to your religion or another religion to get a true represntation of what you believe? So when you want to learn about the science you want to discuss, where should you go?
It appears you get your science from a non academic source. The link to Berkeley gave is an excellent resource that can clear up many misconceptions about evolution like your lacking definitions.
Theories do not become laws. The difference between a hypothesis, theory and law is the scope of the explanation and not level of support for them.
A law is often analytical, like we have Newtons Laws and Mendles Laws of heredety discuss information.
A theory's definition I already gave you, one from a dictionary and one from Berkely's understanding science site which I linked again above.
Am I correct, are the still saying evolved from apes?...Apes are a species
Man is a species
Your question does not make sense because we are apes. Like above where you try to assert your definition for the word 'theory' you are trying to assert your definition of what it takes for speciation to occur without knowing how science classifies these things.
We share a common anscestor with other species of todays apes. You are related to your uncle, but you didn't come from your uncle.
There is no compatability for mating. So therefore we are not apes
Because we stand upright, have a fifth digit, and have similar nurturing of young doesnt make us any more an ape, than a wolf anf a bobcat being the same because they have a tail and stand on 4 legs
Yup. You still don't see that you are asserting your own classification system instead of using sciences. You are using the star wars defitnions for things like 'force' in a scientific discussion.
We are apes, hominids are a classification is above the species level. I am not saying we are the same species as other apes and neither is science. Your definitions are non scientific. You are engaging in psuedoscience and you don't seem to even be interested in finding out about science from the source.
First, Yes the proof is documented scientifically by tens of thousands of archaeologists from all over the world that no life forms existed in the oldest samples of sedimentary stone. Stone that is formed by time and compression Then simple aquatic life forms appear above that and as the layers of sedimentary rock form over tens of thousands of years the life found in them gets more complex. This does not fit with the creation story at all. You discuss the evolution of different species lets take Man vs Chimp The theory is strong due to "Genetic Science". You can look this up if you think I am being dishonest. The only major difference between a Chimp and a man, is one chromosome which most likely fused together creating men as we have one less. We know factually that genetic mutation happens so why would it be out of theoretical probability that humans were a genetic mutation of chimps. The current Chimpanzees were not part of the genetically mutated family.
What evidence of creationism is there?? I have not heard of any, there is no evidence that a creator exists, there is no evidence to support the religious texts account of creation. All evidence points to evolutionary theory being correct.
The apes and others in nature that go both ways so to speak, prove only one thing that the potential to CHOOSE EXISTS in other species as well! And a dog humps a chair. What then does that enlighten us about sexuality?
So its not proof either. And those studies actually relate the behavior to spycosocial, not biological
The facts about homosexuality or transgender behavior are that it exists. Homosexual behavior is observed in the animal kingdom also. People feel attracted to people not based on religious belief but an internal desire. I have a gay brother. He for what ever reason never felt compelled to be romantic with a female. He is a devout Christian and I am an atheist. Yet he is gay and the thought of being romantic with another man is repulsive to me. As for why I have no answer but it is the way that it is.
Law should have created an exception made to give them what they need to have the marriage they desire is appropriate. They have a right to choose their life style and life partner. made to give them what they need to have the marriage they desire is appropriate. They have a right to choose their life style and life partner.
So, in other words, in 1st grade social studies text books, where kids are learning about communities, firemen, police officers, construction workers and moms and dads. “
Equal means Bill and John Smith are married and work in the community.
John is a Police Officer and Bill drives the school bus in the morning. The rest of the day Bill is a busy dad of 2 little boys. Bill takes the boys to the grocery store where Miss Linda and Miss Patty work in the check out lines. They live next door and they are Mary’s mommies. Time to hurry home to make dinner! When John comes home they enjoy dinner on the deck and play baseball in the yard.
Ok then, This text book piece I made up is just a peek into your children’s entire curriculum, including class led discussions in favor of the lifestyle of any choice. And the teacher is also a wacko in the Bernie Generation. Or, if you happen to get lucky and have someone with moral values, she’ll do what she can, but she ha way more restrictions than. which your teacher is limited by religious freedom to influence your kid to and all the material thrown at him for 12 years of education going to have any affect on his perception of what family is?
So now, do you all actually WANT to your children neutered because that is exactly the decision you all are making If and when you have them? You straight supporters are you ok with your son choosing the feminine role of Bill. What do you expect? Now you Bernie guys don’t think real well, and you say no big deal we have friends who are gay. Yea but that is no where near the classroom your kids will be in! You maybe became aware from a tv show like Degrassi or some friends at school, and even in your generation it has become a more popular choice. But you didn’t go through kindergarten with a knowledge of if. Congratulations all of you, it’s a 50/50 chance your child may choose a natural gay lifestyle. Enjoy your prom pictures of your son and his boyfriend. see it as the thing that was possible from seeing normal happy gay parents
Is that really what you want moving forward into the next generation, of your own children’s future educational experience.???? Most of us are not gay, yet the 4 % of people who are gay are going to be permitted to make it look like a the gay lifestyle is a very appealing natural optional choice. And you all really think you don’t want moral values holding back these things from overtaking you, and hurting all of us?
Being gay is a belief or a choice now we are going to introduce it to our entire next generation and inoculate society from knowing the difference between unnatural and natural, or even whet bathroom to use because they are removing the idea of gender and natural sexuality.
This is why it shouldn’t be equal in a sense that there is no place we can say its inappropriate for gay marriage to be pictured.
No one wants gays to hide in a closet. but, We don’t want the rest of society to have to become Amish in order to raise our families according to our own values either
It is your preference from whatever influenced you, and a gay lifestyle is as much of a value and a religion as now we are to introduce it to our next generation and inoculate society from knowing the difference between unnatural and natural, or even which bathroom to use because they are removing the idea of gender and natural sexuality. Its the scariest most unconstitutional event and crime from the American Government that I actually could imagine happening.
Its their marriage, so why do we ALL have to take part in it? Give that group of people freedom to take a life partner, have survivor benefits, and other joint benefits. An exclusive allowance! BUT DO NOT TAKE OUT FREEDOM AND RITES AWAY BY DOING IT!
No one wants gays to hide in a closet. but, We don’t want the rest of society to have to become Amish in order to raise their kids according to their own natural family values and morals! Because they left no where for parents to say its inappropriate for them to be present! They have a right to choose their life style and life partner. But this is an assault on the 96% of Americans! And the sad thing his no one has a clue what’s down the rabbit hole, and you all are going with it in superficial bliss!
But why does it have to be equal in a sense that there is no where inappropriate for gay marriage to be pictured.
It is irresponsible for Judges and law makers to pass a law, like Gay Marriage, without considering potential difficulties and consequences to society in the aftermath of the ruling and its total impact, the possible effects on all the other groups, in every demographics, businesses, schools, media content, children’s etc should be considered for the general welfare of all.
No law should ever pass that will cause society as a whole to suffer, and conflict with a healthy balance of morality and religion, and the natural behavior of most.
You are missing the point completely, Gay people just want the same rights as everyone else. If they wish to marry and have the same legal rights as hetero married people then what is the harm? Why should people be permitted to oppress people because of their gender confusion or preference. Gays aren't asking you to be gay or come to their wedding. They are just asking to have the same opportunities as everyone else. To be treated fairly. If people just did that there would be no need for all of the stupid laws and rules and publicity that we see now. Being gay is not just a choice someone makes. I couldn't be gay if I decided that I wanted to live the lifestyle. I could not be intimate with another man just because I choose to. I would have to feel much different inside than what I do now. Could you just decide to be gay???? I doubt it because it's not just something someone just chooses one day when they are contemplating life. It is deeper than that.
what lies do you think I am being mislead by? If you wish to know how I know that no God exists. It all started about 25 years ago when I was a Christian raised young man and life was difficult for me, so I turned to God for help yet received nothing. I decided since I was Christian I should take the time and read the "Word Of God" to make sure that I was living the right way to please God. Reading the Bible made me realize that it was a text written by ancient men to have authority over other men and to explain what they had no explanation for. There was nothing of a divine nature sadly I searched for any truth to religion and I could not find any. I continue the search with no success
If you really have a heart to know, in His time you will probably know.
He is not a genie. So, an answer may not come when we think it should.
And as end times comes closer, it will get even darker and more evil.
The point is, to be God's anyway! And be different.
Children of light, expose the darkness.
A life time is a lifetime to us, to Him it isnt even a second.
God loved Peter, but he was martered.
Jesus loved Lazereth and raised him from the dead.
He loved the appostle John, and he lived till he was old.
He loved all the appostles, 1 lived till old age many others were pursecuted and martyred.
1 was even the son of perdition, Jesus loved Judas, yet he became the ultimate traitor and hung himself.
1 suffering can lead to death, another to show the work of God.
Its who we are in all things that shows the love and light and strength, and mercy of God. Its who we are in joy, and in suffering that shows us to be children of God.
And the God Im talking about is the only God, the God of Israel, who sent Jesus.
And I wrote a few things that explained the matter of the fall, free will, and God designed us to choose. And with the fall, He had to cleanse, and restore us from a nature that seeks what would be evil in the eyes of God.
And then there is the thing in us that wants to not do evil.
Like you may be bitter over parents, and be filled with anger when ever something is mentioned. And a breach of relationship, even if they are dead,it is still a breach in your feelings toward them that will cause pain and negativity in your life. Wanting to let that go, and forget it or even forgive it may exist along with the bitter anger.
Its the struggle of man, in the fallen nature.
Like the story of satan in the garden w Adam and Eve
You will be like God knowing Good and Evil
There is no evil in God, but God is eternal and Omnipotent. He knows all including the evil that grieves Him, and He must judge evil, because He is not evil.
But when man fell, we took a nature that actually em bodied evil, and also good. Which fights within us. And some people dont fight the evil in them at all. But all have sinned, no matter what degree of fight you have, because fighting the evil inside ourselves cant take us from under the law of judgement to above the the law by grace.
Becoming a child takes that struggle within us all to a different place. As children of God, the Spirit in you grieves your evil choices, but you also understand Gods forgiveness because of Gods Spirit in you if you are born again of the Spirit.
The law in us works against us inside by guilt and judgement.
The love of God through the judgement of evil placed on Jesus. And His Spirit sent to live with you and in you , that will support you as a child of God through the happiness amd pain this world will give.
If you are God's child, and you know Him, God freed us from the law that judges us, the law is set to judge us day in and day out.
But his design is a people whi are not under the judgement of the law of sin and death, but the law of Gods love, is to live a life experiencing in every way the love and forgiveness of God, and that forgiveness is grace, and grace leads to repentance, and cleansing, and we can love and forgive as He does, because we have experienced it and understood it. And it is working in us against the law of sin and judgement that leads to death.
Its born again.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God So Loved
(Genesis 22:1-10; Romans 5:6-11)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John's Testimony Concerning Jesus
22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24For John was not yet cast into prison.
25Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. 26And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease.
31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him