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Does a god exist?
Let's mix it up in order to learn about other people and yourself.
People who are normally atheist or agnostic, argue FOR religion and God. You will take the side of religion, any religion and you will debate as if you believed it.
People who are normally theists, argue AGAINST religion and God. You will fight for atheism. Try to form arguments that defend atheism, as if you were a heathen.
Please do not sabotage with silly comments. Take this seriously and learn something.
Simple- Before time existed, before the Big Bang, what was there? What directs life? Why does the universe create life?
Does it desire to live? I am made of the universe, I know that I was once in the furnace of a star. I know that I was once inorganic earth. I know that I was grass, animals, I was water and carbon and many different, but separate forms, my physical body eaten and pooped out millions of times, and finally, I am here.
Even if evolution does not require a god, even if the big bang does not, how can I be made of the universe, yes, made of matter and energy and living in time, and there not be a force within the universe?
Or am I that force? Is life the universe incarnate, the desire to live?
Does the universe want to live, so badly that it will go through the process of evolution? Think of how many things must have died until this point. Just in ten minutes, how many people die? In the timeline of all life, did the universe really die that often, only to be reborn and die again?
I believe that the universe IS god, and is craving to live. It does all it can to live, despite pain and hardship. It wants a physical form, and I am that form.
I am the universe, aware of itself and with the ability to learn.
" Simple- Before time existed, before the Big Bang, what was there? What directs life? Why does the universe create life?"
Asking why the universe creates life is to give the characteristics of intelligence to something that has no evidence of having it. How the universe creates life would be a better way to putting it.
" Does it desire to live? I am made of the universe, I know that I was once in the furnace of a star. I know that I was once inorganic earth. I know that I was grass, animals, I was water and carbon and many different, but separate forms, my physical body eaten and pooped out millions of times, and finally, I am here."
Does what desire to live? The universe?
You were not once inorganic earth. You did not exist till your brain formed.
" Even if evolution does not require a god, even if the big bang does not, how can I be made of the universe, yes, made of matter and energy and living in time, and there not be a force within the universe?"
There are four forces. Which one are you speaking of?
"Or am I that force? Is life the universe incarnate, the desire to live?"
What?
" Does the universe want to live, so badly that it will go through the process of evolution? Think of how many things must have died until this point. Just in ten minutes, how many people die? In the timeline of all life, did the universe really die that often, only to be reborn and die again?"
Again... giving the universe a desire and will is silly.
" I believe that the universe IS god, and is craving to live. It does all it can to live, despite pain and hardship. It wants a physical form, and I am that form."
Call god what ever you want, but saying the universe craves to live requires some evidence.
" I am the universe, aware of itself and with the ability to learn."
All religions worship a god, what if that god wasn't some human like figure, but just the essence of the universe?
Why else would life exist? Random chance? If all human life believes in a god, then that would mean that even if those gods are different, what if they are all worshiping the same thing?
"what if that god wasn't some human like figure, but just the essence of the universe?"
again.. vague crap that means nothing.
"Why else would life exist?"
Life exists because self replicating systems produce themselves when given the energy and resources necessary. If you are referring to some higher purpose, their might not be one.
"Random chance"
Chance is something we use to describe things we don't understand in detail. Not sure why bring this up even matters.
"If all human life believes in a god"
nope. not everyone does
"if all human life believes in a god, then that would mean that even if those gods are different, what if they are all worshiping the same thing?"
No one of those will ever win until we die and find out.
Why do people keep arguing about this? No one can prove the other one wrong, so lets just go on with our silly lives and love each other and love the short life we're given?
This is a debate website, get out of here if you don't want to debate religion. There are a lot of topics here, if you want to make a compromise, go to a forum or something.
True, even if we were to have some irrefutable evidence shoved in atheists faces, they still won't believe. Religious debates with an atheist is pointless. Oh, and hey thanks for dumping the abortion debate right as I was about to win. ;)
I generally think even having an argument on whether god exist is pointless because people like to take 2 extremes on the issue. Those who do not believe will do anything to disprove whatever those who believe say. Most atheists I talk to are not even open to the idea even though they call themselves sooooo open minded and on the other hand there are also religious extremists.
So, I'm not here to get my beliefs bashed by anyone or force anyone to accept my opinion. I just want to say that religion is based on your beliefs so there is no way to prove or disprove what someone else believes. I believe there is a god. Some people may not but you can't argue what someone else believes. If you don't believe in religion I just dont see why you would go out of your way to force or make someone look stupid for what they believe. Its just as bad as the extremists who try to shame people towards god.
While this seems like an ideal exercise, I'm not sure how we are suppose to take it seriously. All the arguments for it that I've heard, sound silly. But I'll try it anyway.
God exists because of cause and effect and a lack of evidence for true purposelessness.
God does not excist, if there was a god he/ she/it would have made it's self apparent much sooner, also why would it let there be so much suffering in the world unless if there is a god he is not a positive thing in any retrospect, however science can disprove just about any existence of god and this is the reason atheism is growing.
Science does not have any proof that the universe and all living things came from nothing. Not one shred of evidence suggests a series of random events caused everything we see today.
One example: Scientists have been trying for centuries to produce a living organism from inate material. Never has happened. Until science can bring about life from nothing then the only other explanation is that God started life on earth!
No, to be 100% sure that god exists is impossible. Even if he does appear and performs some miraculous feat, you can question his legitimacy with never-ending performances, proofs, etc... , basically anything a person can think of. To say that he doesn't exist is also a bad thing to say because we cannot prove whats out there nor can we prove someone is all knowing.
Also, what is a person's definition of 'god'? What if someone's standards was that their god was a dog or a potato. Then "that" is their god. Does believing in a 'god' make it real? Can we say for sure that Santa isn't up there on his sleds?
To choose sides I'd go with no. To believe that a cup filled with water is in front of me will result in me never getting that cup filled with water. I can have faith that a cup will miraculously appear, but every time I turn around it will not be there... Therefore, one can say that God probably doesn't exist until we can prove his existence.
Of course God doesn't exist, evolution proves that God didn't create the Earth. Therefore evrything in the bible is 100% made up, including the bit about God existing.
How do you know that evolution even happened exactly the way they explain it? maybe beings evolve over time but believing that the world exploded from a speck is a belief. So, why is it so hard to believe that there would be a god?
People always act like science is fact but in reality its only true until its not so stop hating on other people's beliefs. I don't know why religion would even concern you if you don't believe in god
god doesnt exist because theres no evidence or proof, so obviously its a 100% FACT that he doesnt exist, because you know, just because we cant prove or disprove it automatically qualifies it as non existant, this is the best logic i have ever used in any arguments, also, look at all the terrible things going on in life, surely if there was a god it would want us to just prosper and not know what its like to have difficulties in life because life should be a ride through happyfuckingdandy land
You still because you claim there is no god and yet have the audacity to say that there is an afterlife. Again, like in our previous argument, let me educate you with the Laws of Logic. This specific one being the Law of Non Contradictions. You can't say there is an afterlife and then say there isn't a god. It's contradictory, therefore your argument is self defeating. Go back to smoking pot. It must be the only thing you are good at because you sure can't debate.
actually, there can be an afterlife without a god... i refer to god as the one source, the life source, and once again, read this REALLY CAREFULLY: the argument says to switch your stance on your view and defend it that way... so a theist makes atheist arguments and vice versa...
"It's very easy for an afterlife to exist without a god. Probably more likely."
How? By admitting there is an afterlife, you are admitting that there is a case for supernatural. Therefore you can no longer use science as an ally. And if you are going to believe this entirely by faith, then naturally God must exist due to the fact you need to believe in him by faith also.
1. I never argued for or against Christianity in this debate. I kinda "fence sat" with this one.
2. Given point one, you are using what's called "Inductive Reasoning" when you said you are going to covert to "my" cult of Christianity.
3. You didn't even dispute my point; maybe you should have hit "Clarified" since you couldn't come up with any actual arguments.... you uneducated dipstick.
How the hell am I mocking atheism???!! So yeah, why don't you open your mind and put a fricken brain in it! Your gross accusations aren't helping this debate any more than your lack of knowledge.
Sorry, I've been edgy lately with the new semester of college starting. Not as laid back as I was during the summer. So again, I sincerely apologize; and beg of your forgiveness.
You guys mock me all the time, maybe not flatly out right, but you do, and i cant think of an argument against god unless its like the judeo christian god... i mean its possible it COULD exist and if it does id be horrified that it exists, if it knows all and has empathy and love for all, it would know that us scuccumbing to its will is pointless because what the hell is the point of creating us then? to do his will? Ya no thanks, maybe your right, this debate must not be for me
We only mock you because what you say is uh... very... far out.
It's just unrealistic. Personally, I would believe you over the God of Abraham any day.
However, your god/ideas do not appear to exist.
The only gods that still exist are the pagan gods, for those are gods of the earth, universe and of nature itself, and so do not require the supernatural to prove them. They are symbolic, for people still believe, despite never expecting to see them in life or after. If there are trees, the moon, the earth and sun and northern wind, then those gods are still around.
My ideas DO exist, they exist in shamanism and shamans were the first "religion" to appear on earth, they travelled to non ordinary existance where they received their knowledge of life, and they must have known something because they are the most respected leaders of their tribes, more important than the ruler of the tribe, they are leaders. Not rulers.
And they are still around today, so if shamanism was just some bullshit scam it wouldnt be around today. We are all shamans, we all have the innate ability of it, its ingrained into us and was probably discovered on accident by connecting to and worshipping nature.
People are easy to manipulate, and because the world is confusing, it's easier to offer a simple, magical explanation than tell the truth and say magic doesn't actually exist, then offer the real explanation for something.
Ya, because money has influence, im talking about REAL shamans, REAL mystics, the people who meditate almost 24/7 and travel through dimensions to receive knowledge that is not understandable 100% unless only experienced directly, im not talking about the mall shop palm readers, im not talking about shows on tv that have mediums, im talking deep in the wild, away from "civilized" society (whatever that is) where these people do this on a daily basis and have been doing it for thousands of years. They still play a major role today, even though we might not notice it, they play a MAJOR role.
shamans dont manipulate people, they are hermits and even though they are the leaders of their people, they rarely physically interact with them, they live secluded, how is this a scam? they dont manipulate the masses, they receive knowledge and give knowledge about what to do and what the best course of choice and action is. we can still learn alot from shamans today and incorporate it into our daily lives.
Well, sure, but still... I mean, it's not like computers are magic. They function based on the laws of nature and the universe. If shamanism is useful, why are they so primitive? Not that there is anything wrong with that, but when it comes down to figuring out how the universe actually is, then shamanism is not a path for knowledge.
Thats where you are dead wrong, shamans are ones who can see both sides of the same coin, they see reality for what it truly is, and reality is definitely not a 9-5 job making minimum wage to try and pay back a debt that keeps increasing because of politics and war... This is not "real" what i mean by that is we are literally enslaved, we are enslaved to such a well point we dont even realize we are enslaved, they have us trapped in our minds, we grow up thinking that life is only about obtaining as much as you can to hopefully make a name...
Wanna hear the greatest conspiracy of all? When was the last time you actually felt alive? Without the stress of having to go back to a daily life of meaningless bullshit so we can fuel the top of the chain so that they can do whatever they please while we are stuck having to hold 2 jobs to barely make enough payment to get along? Its the most fucked up system in the world, and shamanism sees right through this.
Shamanism is about connecting with nature, its what we are, we are a product of nature, therefore, thats what we are at our most purest form, whatever mother nature is, the shamans know what it is. Interdimensional travel is possible through meditation, thats what meditation is for, not clearing your mind and increasing your health, thats one benefit, but its not the main benefit. Meditation allows us to expand our energy field and become pure energy within it, which allows us to travel through the different realities, because its all consciousness. A conscious experience is a real experience no matter what state of mind you are in. Its the message and the way we interpret it and try to explain it to others that causes us to conflict. This is what science can not offer.
This is why i am more obsessed with this than i am with science because science only explains how things work, it doesnt let us experience it. And thats what life is all about, is living and experiencing, and they are holding this back from us, for some reason that defies all logic. We should all maintain and support ourselves, not rely on others to do that for us.
Science is great for explaining things, but this is why i say in the end it is pointless, it really is, in my eyes. Consciousness knows everything, it knows our past and our future, it knows every infinite possibility of every infinite choice we can ever make in our lives. Connecting to pure consciousness is what the key to life is, and we need to relearn this because we can learn alot from it.
This is where you will disagree with me, but tell me one thing: When was the last time inorganic material produced consciousness? This is the reality consciousness is creating for us because well the only way to learn that is to meditate, to journey into the realms of our own selves, we know everything, like the bible says, seek and ye will find. It may take years of practice and training, but it all pays off in the end, but you yourself may have to go through a complete and utterly insane transformation. But it is very well worth it.
And this transformation doesnt mean we cant still do science, it just amplifies the experience of it 100 fold. Just when the caterpillar thought that life was all over, it turned into a butterfly. Remember that. This is whats going to happen in the next few years, because shamans/people in the past gained this knowledge and they visited the future, they visited the past, they saw us transforming among what they could only describe as the end of the world because we havent had a large cataclysmic event in a very long time. The truth will set you free, this is true. But we are not being told the truth today, and thus, we are not free.
Yea, but guess what, my life is not worth nothing, i see life in everything, and my goal in life is to help bring about peace in such a modern society, which has fallen slave to a machine. Out of all species on earth we resemble ants the most, not apes.
And this is sad. And i know others feel the same way, reality is what we make it and we dont make our reality anymore, we are all part of the players at the tops reality. They are playing a sick game with us, and trying to exterminate us by using the best method of warfare: dehumanziation.
If you want to be dehumanized then by all means use your free will to do so. Im not targeting you specifically, im targeting everyone who has fallen into this trap. I am not alone in this. Conflict halts progress, and all we see around us is conflict, and im not going to let my human race fall into darkness when its the little things that matter. 1 degree makes all the difference in life, you should know this, our solar system runs on it to keep us alive as well as we ourselves use this same fine tuning to maintain a healthy life, with everything around us.
So no, i am not living in fantasy, we are dying. Do you not realize this? The 1 degree in humanity to keep us alive is spirituality, without it, we are virtually dead.
You are saying this life is a lie, and that there is another later on.
I don't want to live in poverty in case you're wrong.
Based on the evidence, you are wrong, because there is no evidence. You talk about light and color, giving it human qualities, but that makes no sense. I don't even mean that purely logically, I mean it's just not a wise idea to live life as if this was just a painful illusion. You can if you wish, what matters is that you are happy doing what you do in life.
No, im saying living as slaves to a machine is a lie. its not how reality has to work, i know we are in a huge mess of entanglement of war, politics, greed, corruption and all that snazzy jazz, but it DOES NOT have to be this way, we as the people of this planet, can change how we run things, but people are fearful of such a dramatic lifestyle change. Im gonna be hitchhiking around the country soon just backpacking around the world with no money, doing some labor here and there for a bite to eat and a place to stay, which will give me the ultimate freedom in life, which is what we all desire, its a hard lifestyle change, but its not impossible. i know alot of people dont want to live this way and thats fine, im gonna leave society for a while and come back in like 5 years and see if we arent in a police state by then :P
I'm positive that running away to live in a third world country as a shaman isn't going to solve anything.
If you want to see results, then you need to put forth influence- and the best way to do that is to appear sane to people, and then invent, create, inspire or live in a way that makes people want to be like you.
Well, that's great, but there are likely better ways.
If you ignore you superstitious beliefs but did the same thing- except provide REAL help, such as organizing a project for the homeless or poor to do so they can get money/a place to live, that would be far better, and it wouldn't involve the same "believe what I do or I won't help you" bullshit as most religious people use.
No im going to be helping people by connecting with them on a different level, and helping them through their struggles and teaching them how to get over any probems that arise, i take a real offense to how you said "believe what I do or I won't help you" thats retarded, idc what people believe, i just want to deepen and strengthen their faith, no matter what they believe in, everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but i adapt very well, and i can adapt to any belief, pick it apart, and make it a whole new thing without changing the core of it.
I dont convert anyone, im a spiritual being, im as spiritual as they get, spirituality isnt a belief system, its an experience...
And it can be applied to every aspect of anything...
I dont want to convert people i want people to have faith, not proof, FAITH because as we know, god cant be proven or disproven, trust me, my quest is to help the universe, and the universe recognizes this, i help it it helps me, if that means living in poverty but being the happiest person and most contented person on earth, im happy with that, im happy, and i want to spread my happiness...
I said i can pick apart beliefs and deepen them without changing the core of it, thats not converting thats called helping someone realize the depth of their own beliefs...
no christians say your going to hell if you dont put faith in their beliefs, my beliefs are that you will have a good life if you do good things, and your life will be shitty if you do bad things to other people, whether this carries over into the afterlife is obviously debatable, but i believe death is just leaving our bodies permanently, and our soul will live on, but if youre stuck to materialistic gains, which only causes problems, as evidenced in the world around us, you will be stuck in "hell" until you learn to love, my religion is love, and if its a bad thing to be brainwashed by love, and to get people to love each other, then i guess ill just have to brainwash the world into love, which you know, is just sooooo terrible....
Listen to yourself, your telling me to not spread love around, so to me, you are in fact, trying to stop love from being spread around. Are you a reptilian? i bet you are with that attitude....
no, i was just asking, and your probably trolling me, but if not, its not my fault you guys feed off negative energy, and i cant live with negative energy, and you guys cant live with positive energy, so it would seem we are at a standoff in a galactic problem...
I dont hate reptilians, i find it sad that they must feed off negative energy, but heres an idea: why dont you create your own negative energy and make your own food? theres infinite universes, why do you have to enslave our race? and feed off of our love? why cant you feed off your own negativity? :P
Still dont know if your serious or trolling... but im guessing the latter... but, this universe is a very strange place...
Yes, it is strange, but that's no reason to claim we feed off negative energy. That's just being racist.
Claiming anything you don't understand is evil or negative is a great way to make enemies. You think that science is bad? That understanding how the beauty of our universe works is bad? Well, religions seem a lot more negative than that. Obsessed with what comes after death rather than living life... Of course they have a monopoly on life too. Oh well. Truth vs belief.
but negative is just an opposite to positive, theres nothing good or bad about them, i just dont like the state of being in negativity because i do not like the chakra feeling associated with it. I like the chakra feeling of being divinely in tune.
I never said science was evil, sure it has brought some actions upon our race that can only be deemed as "unspeakable" but religion is detrimental, i agree, at its core it is good, and it started out for means of good, im sure, but it quickly devolved into a control scheme. I do not think science is the opposite of religion, but i do not like going off of facts and proofs, i like to think about the future, i guess i am just stuck in fantasy...
Im not obsessed with what comes after death im obsessed with the non physical world, i dont like the physical world, its at a low frequency and i do not like it, i like high frequencies
okay the fact that you cant prove or disprove it doesn't mean it doesn't exist buddy.
And you part about 'if god existed he would want us to prosper.' dude i think a part of the point of life is to learn and make mistakes and experience hardship and grow. Why would he want people to experience no pain? what would be the point of living? You are just here to argue and hate on religion but the only real reason you can think of why it doesn't exist is because we cant prove it did? Dude religion is based a lot on beliefs. Its what you chose to believe. You chose to believe that god doesn't exist. Cool, thats super for you but why you have to talk crap about something that is important to others is beyond me.
